Audio sync issues with MakeMKV - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 28 Old 06-26-2014, 04:21 PM - Thread Starter
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Audio sync issues with MakeMKV

I've seen this posted quite a bit and never really paid any attention as I don't use MakeMKV anymore. I had used it to rip a few TV series though. As I get around to watching those I realize that they all have lip/audio sync issues. All kinds of different content and ripped on several different machines. I tested playback on PHT, VLC, Plex on Roku, MPC-HC and all result in about the same delay.

I know this is brought up more often on the streaming forum but I also know a lot of you guys here use MakeMKV and wanted to get your thoughts/experience with audio sync issues with it's rips.
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post #2 of 28 Old 06-27-2014, 12:15 AM
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Not something I've come across specifically with MakeMKV. I do have audio sync issues (across most if not all players and ripped using most ripping software), but only if I playback at 23.976 refresh rate - 50 and 60 don't have the issue, so I watch at 60 (my Panny plasma seems to handle the pulldown really well and I barley notice any difference). Only 'real' issue I have is the recognition and flagging of 'forced' subtitles.

Have you just started ripping your media, or have you been using a different method/program that gives no sync issues?
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post #3 of 28 Old 06-27-2014, 03:02 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steelman1991 View Post
Not something I've come across specifically with MakeMKV. I do have audio sync issues (across most if not all players and ripped using most ripping software), but only if I playback at 23.976 refresh rate - 50 and 60 don't have the issue, so I watch at 60 (my Panny plasma seems to handle the pulldown really well and I barley notice any difference). Only 'real' issue I have is the recognition and flagging of 'forced' subtitles.

Have you just started ripping your media, or have you been using a different method/program that gives no sync issues?
I've used AnyDVD to disk, then eac3to/mkvmerge for a majority of my Blu-ray. All of those have no sync issues and I package the forced subs first with forced flag set and they play back perfectly with VLC, Plex Home Theater, Plex App for Android and Plex on Roku. Those are the only playback software I use though. I've seen people say that the sync issue with MakeMKV is just due to it being ripped from disc and muxed at the same time.... I'm not even sure if I have any media where I ripped to disk and then remux with MakeMKV. I'm sure I have but I wouldn't know which files to test.
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post #4 of 28 Old 06-27-2014, 04:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by techmattr View Post
I've used AnyDVD to disk, then eac3to/mkvmerge for a majority of my Blu-ray. All of those have no sync issues and I package the forced subs first with forced flag set and they play back perfectly with VLC, Plex Home Theater, Plex App for Android and Plex on Roku. Those are the only playback software I use though. I've seen people say that the sync issue with MakeMKV is just due to it being ripped from disc and muxed at the same time.... I'm not even sure if I have any media where I ripped to disk and then remux with MakeMKV. I'm sure I have but I wouldn't know which files to test.
Yeah - I've read some users reporting that using the individual components to rip, rather than the package doesn't give sync issues, clearly suggesting that MakeMKV introduces something to the ripping process that introduces an audio/lip sync issue. But, like you I've tried all the supposed 'tricks' and all of my rips - playing at 23.976 fps, produce audio delay issues - strange.

I presume you playback at native refresh rates (though I believe that VLC doesn't switch - so are you playing at 60fps?)
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post #5 of 28 Old 06-27-2014, 05:52 AM
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I've ripped over 1,000 DVDs and Blu-Rays using MakeMKV and so far I have not encountered any synch issues. Using individual components to rip a movie theoretically shouldn't work any different than using an all-in-one utility such as MakeMKV since it most likely uses a batch program to initiate each of the individual programs in sequence.

Lip synch issues tend to be inherent with HD content. I won't pretend to know what causes it, but I have seen it with any number of different types of media, including live broadcast TV.
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post #6 of 28 Old 06-27-2014, 06:28 AM
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I wouldn't have thought so either, but clearly others don't, including the OP. Anyway - off to rip one using both packaged and individual components, see what the outcome is. I certainly don't expect to see anything different to your own observations. Glad I don't have the same issue with the stand-alone player.
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post #7 of 28 Old 06-27-2014, 06:52 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steelman1991 View Post
Yeah - I've read some users reporting that using the individual components to rip, rather than the package doesn't give sync issues, clearly suggesting that MakeMKV introduces something to the ripping process that introduces an audio/lip sync issue. But, like you I've tried all the supposed 'tricks' and all of my rips - playing at 23.976 fps, produce audio delay issues - strange.

I presume you playback at native refresh rates (though I believe that VLC doesn't switch - so are you playing at 60fps?)
Honestly I have no idea. I'm pretty clueless on how the playback frame rate relationship works between the media > playback software/firmware > display device.

Quote:
Originally Posted by captain_video View Post
I've ripped over 1,000 DVDs and Blu-Rays using MakeMKV and so far I have not encountered any synch issues. Using individual components to rip a movie theoretically shouldn't work any different than using an all-in-one utility such as MakeMKV since it most likely uses a batch program to initiate each of the individual programs in sequence.

Lip synch issues tend to be inherent with HD content. I won't pretend to know what causes it, but I have seen it with any number of different types of media, including live broadcast TV.
When you ripped those DVD/BD did you do so straight from disc or copy to HDD first?
Since MakeMKV is ripping and remuxing at the same time I can see where some kind of ODD latency or some other issue could cause an issue. Who knows though I've never seen any kind of technical evidence either way other than a resulting playback with sync issues.
I have both HD and SD content that was ripped with MakeMKV. I ripped the entire Scrubs series from DVD and every episode needed about 200~250ms of correction. BSG was ripped from BD and it needed about 150ms of correction.
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post #8 of 28 Old 06-27-2014, 08:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by techmattr View Post
When you ripped those DVD/BD did you do so straight from disc or copy to HDD first?
Since MakeMKV is ripping and remuxing at the same time I can see where some kind of ODD latency or some other issue could cause an issue. Who knows though I've never seen any kind of technical evidence either way other than a resulting playback with sync issues.
I have both HD and SD content that was ripped with MakeMKV. I ripped the entire Scrubs series from DVD and every episode needed about 200~250ms of correction. BSG was ripped from BD and it needed about 150ms of correction.
I've ripped them both ways. I had a lot of DVDs that had been previously ripped to folders and Blu-Rays as iso images. Anything newer was ripped directly from the disc or iso image. I generally ripped them to hard drive first and then converted them to mkv. I converted everything on my server to mkv format after trying XBMC for playback as it provided the most consistent results with no problems.
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post #9 of 28 Old 06-29-2014, 11:57 PM
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@techmattr - as suspected both methods produce the same results. Conclusion MakeMKV doesn't produce/add any audio sync delays (caveat - on my system).
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post #10 of 28 Old 06-30-2014, 07:53 AM
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most likely, your sync issues are caused by a refresh-rate miss-match and have nothing to do with the ripping/playback process.
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post #11 of 28 Old 06-30-2014, 08:11 AM
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What do you suggest as a solution?
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post #12 of 28 Old 06-30-2014, 08:14 AM
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Get a copy of VideoReDo and perform a QuickStream fix on the file. It should correct any synch issues. If not, then the file is probably too corrupt to use anyway. You can get a fully functional trial copy and see if it works. If you like the program. I'd highly recommend purchasing a copy as it's one of the most useful tools for working with video files you'll find.
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post #13 of 28 Old 06-30-2014, 08:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steelman1991 View Post
What do you suggest as a solution?

purchase a display device that supports 1080p as a native resolution.
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post #14 of 28 Old 06-30-2014, 08:28 AM
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I don't know about the OP, but I already have one of those - Panasonic 65VT30.
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post #15 of 28 Old 06-30-2014, 08:31 AM
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Originally Posted by steelman1991 View Post
I don't know about the OP, but I already have one of those - Panasonic 65VT30.

My comments are for the OP and in direct response to post #1 .
I suggest if you have similar issues, you start your own thread.

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post #16 of 28 Old 06-30-2014, 08:38 AM
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I suggest you make that clear in future when responding then, as I also indicated the same issue - see post 2 and as I was the last post in the thread it certainly wasn't obvious who you were responding to.
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post #17 of 28 Old 06-30-2014, 08:53 AM
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The only time I encountered this kind of issue, especially if you also use Handbrake to compress down the files, is when the source is 3:2 telecined. In that case, you will need to process it using external software to eliminate the pull-down. BDs are typically 24p native and don't require this but DVDs and HDDVDs are telecined.
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post #18 of 28 Old 06-30-2014, 09:02 AM
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Reclock ?
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post #19 of 28 Old 06-30-2014, 10:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steelman1991 View Post
I suggest you make that clear in future when responding then, as I also indicated the same issue - see post 2 and as I was the last post in the thread it certainly wasn't obvious who you were responding to.

It is clear that the original poster has an issue.
Since the 2nd post offers no solution, I did not bother read it fully. My time is precious.
I fail to see how your issue should receive prominence over the original post in any response.
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post #20 of 28 Old 06-30-2014, 10:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shark007 View Post
It is clear that the original poster has an issue.
Since the 2nd post offers no solution, I did not bother read it fully. My time is precious.
I fail to see how your issue should receive prominence over the original post in any response.
I never said it did/should - just pointed out that you might have identified which post you were referring to, instead you decided to make a smart ass comment with your original post. You were quick enough to use the quote in subsequent posts. If your time is so precious why are you even responding?
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post #21 of 28 Old 06-30-2014, 10:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steelman1991 View Post
you decided to make a smart ass comment with your original post.
what do you find smart ass in this post?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shark007 View Post
most likely, your sync issues are caused by a refresh-rate miss-match and have nothing to do with the ripping/playback process.
I offered the original poster a cause for the issue so he can seek a proper solution to the issue posted.




Quote:
Originally Posted by steelman1991 View Post
If your time is so precious why are you even responding?
because teaching some etiquette can go a long way.
...although I do realize some people are to self righteous to get it.


And to the OP, sorry for steelman1991's off topic'ness requiring me to respond.
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Last edited by Shark007; 06-30-2014 at 10:58 AM.
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post #22 of 28 Old 06-30-2014, 11:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shark007 View Post
what do you find smart ass in this post?

I offered the original poster a proper solution to the issue posted.





because teaching some etiquette can go a long way.
...although I do realize some people are to self righteous to get it.


And to the OP, sorry for steelman1991's off topic'ness requiring me to respond.
What etiquette issues are you teaching me, I hadn't hijacked the thread and I don't think it was unreasonable to think that your first post in the thread referred to the post immediately before it.

Last edited by steelman1991; 06-30-2014 at 11:07 AM.
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post #23 of 28 Old 06-30-2014, 12:33 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shark007 View Post
purchase a display device that supports 1080p as a native resolution.
So the symptoms are the same on my PC monitors as well as two different 1080p TVs... I'm not sure if matching the display device refresh rate to the media would be a good test?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Foxbat121 View Post
The only time I encountered this kind of issue, especially if you also use Handbrake to compress down the files, is when the source is 3:2 telecined. In that case, you will need to process it using external software to eliminate the pull-down. BDs are typically 24p native and don't require this but DVDs and HDDVDs are telecined.
So the first video I came across with this issue was an episode of Scrubs from the retail DVD and the second was an episode of Battlestar Galactica from the Blu-ray box set. Media info below:
Code:
Video
ID                                       : 1
Format                                   : MPEG Video
Format version                           : Version 2
Format profile                           : Main@Main
Format settings, BVOP                    : No
Format settings, Matrix                  : Custom
Codec ID                                 : V_MPEG2
Codec ID/Info                            : MPEG 1 or 2 Video
Duration                                 : 23mn 23s
Bit rate mode                            : Variable
Bit rate                                 : 4 535 Kbps
Maximum bit rate                         : 9 802 Kbps
Width                                    : 720 pixels
Height                                   : 480 pixels
Display aspect ratio                     : 4:3
Frame rate mode                          : Constant
Frame rate                               : 29.970 fps
Standard                                 : Component
Color space                              : YUV
Chroma subsampling                       : 4:2:0
Bit depth                                : 8 bits
Scan type                                : Interlaced
Scan order                               : Top Field First
Compression mode                         : Lossy
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)                       : 0.438
Time code of first frame                 : 00:59:59;04
Time code source                         : Group of pictures header
Stream size                              : 759 MiB (94%)
Language                                 : English
Default                                  : No
Forced                                   : No
Color primaries                          : BT.601 NTSC
Transfer characteristics                 : BT.601
Matrix coefficients                      : BT.601

Audio
ID                                       : 2
Format                                   : AC-3
Format/Info                              : Audio Coding 3
Mode extension                           : CM (complete main)
Format settings, Endianness              : Big
Codec ID                                 : A_AC3
Duration                                 : 23mn 23s
Bit rate mode                            : Constant
Bit rate                                 : 192 Kbps
Channel(s)                               : 2 channels
Channel positions                        : Front: L R
Sampling rate                            : 48.0 KHz
Bit depth                                : 16 bits
Compression mode                         : Lossy
Stream size                              : 32.1 MiB (4%)
Title                                    : 2/0
Language                                 : English
Default                                  : Yes
Forced                                   : No
Code:
Video
ID                                       : 1
Format                                   : VC-1
Format profile                           : Advanced@L3
Codec ID                                 : V_MS/VFW/FOURCC / WVC1
Codec ID/Hint                            : Microsoft
Duration                                 : 44mn 43s
Width                                    : 1 920 pixels
Height                                   : 1 080 pixels
Display aspect ratio                     : 16:9
Frame rate mode                          : Constant
Frame rate                               : 23.976 fps
Color space                              : YUV
Chroma subsampling                       : 4:2:0
Bit depth                                : 8 bits
Scan type                                : Progressive
Compression mode                         : Lossy
Language                                 : English
Default                                  : No
Forced                                   : No

Audio #1
ID                                       : 2
Format                                   : DTS
Format/Info                              : Digital Theater Systems
Format profile                           : MA / Core
Mode                                     : 16
Format settings, Endianness              : Big
Codec ID                                 : A_DTS
Duration                                 : 44mn 43s
Bit rate mode                            : Variable
Bit rate                                 : Unknown / 1 509 Kbps
Channel(s)                               : 6 channels
Channel positions                        : Front: L C R, Side: L R, LFE
Sampling rate                            : 48.0 KHz
Bit depth                                : 24 bits
Compression mode                         : Lossless / Lossy
Title                                    : Lossless
Language                                 : English
Default                                  : Yes
Forced                                   : No
Now... although the BSG isn't interlaced... it IS VC-1 which could be causing issues. The Scrubs episodes are very consistent in the correction needed and I can easily correct with either my player or receiver. The BSG episodes however are all over the place. It seems to vary from being in sync to almost 3 full seconds off at times.

Both Scrubs and BSG when ripped with AnyDVD HD playback perfectly fine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post
Reclock ?
I've obviously seen it mentioned a bunch but never really looked into as I haven't had the need... I'll start doing some learnin'
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post #24 of 28 Old 06-30-2014, 02:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by techmattr View Post
So the symptoms are the same on my PC monitors as well as two different 1080p TVs... I'm not sure if matching the display device refresh rate to the media would be a good test?

This would rule out my thought that miss-matched refresh rates were causing your issue.
sorry to have troubled you.

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Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post
Reclock ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by techmattr View Post
I've obviously seen it mentioned a bunch but never really looked into as I haven't had the need... I'll start doing some learnin'

IMO, Reclock is worth checking out as a solution to your issue.
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post #25 of 28 Old 07-01-2014, 08:44 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by captain_video View Post
Get a copy of VideoReDo and perform a QuickStream fix on the file. It should correct any synch issues. If not, then the file is probably too corrupt to use anyway. You can get a fully functional trial copy and see if it works. If you like the program. I'd highly recommend purchasing a copy as it's one of the most useful tools for working with video files you'll find.
I own a copy of VideoReDo and the QuickStream Fix does actually fix a lot of issues with recorded TV so it's worth a shot.

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Originally Posted by Shark007 View Post
This would rule out my thought that miss-matched refresh rates were causing your issue.
sorry to have troubled you.

IMO, Reclock is worth checking out as a solution to your issue.
No trouble at all. I appreciate the input. I'll definitely look into reclock as it might be the easiest solution.
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post #26 of 28 Old 07-01-2014, 09:39 AM
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https://forum.slysoft.com/forumdisplay.php?85-ReClock

The trouble with reclock is if you bitstream you might have to decode locally or change how you do it based on how it works.

One solutoin that is popular too is grab the dtsdecoderdll.dll that comes with Arcsoft TMT software and use that to allow you to decode full DTS-HD audio, which works even if you don't have DTS- HD support on your AVR or PC speakers. Copy and paste dtsdecoderdll.dll to C:\Program Files (x86)\LAVFilters or whatever that is. Many people with 120hz/144hz computer displays or televisions with 23.976hz mode can use reclock to prevent the slight frame drops and repeats that happen once in a while due to the frame rate not quite matching the refresh rate. Reclock is a good solution to that. I use it on my desktop in MB theater and I also use it with MPC-HC. I don't bitstream on my PC since I have a 5.1 Logitech THX speaker system and don't use HDMI- I run my monitors with DVI or Display port. I actually probably don't need it because most of my stuff plays well without it but a couple files I had some sync troubles with and in testing I found reclock did cure the problems.

MBtheater has a plugin or check box you can use to enable it. Lots of people use it with MPC-HC. What is your video player ?

Reclock needs uncompressed audio to work. . With reclock use wasapi exclusive mode and bypass the MS Windows mixer. I noticed my sound quality was better playing music through MBtheater than with other players one day and it took me a second to figure out why. I think reclock was why.
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post #27 of 28 Old 07-01-2014, 11:06 AM - Thread Starter
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I use Plex and bitstream any audio that is capable. The audio offset is the same whether I'm bistreaming or whether I'm decoding on PC..... so that makes me think the timing is just incorrect between the audio and video streams. I'm not sure how that would be possible since they are the same runtime though. So I'll have to do some testing with MPC-HC. Good thing the Advanced MPC-HC Setup Guide is still stickied at the top of HTPC or else I might not be able to find it
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post #28 of 28 Old 07-01-2014, 12:01 PM
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Try set up reclock; mpchc is fine. Playback a problem file with that and see what happens.
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