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post #1 of 37 Old 06-30-2014, 11:29 PM - Thread Starter
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More questions...

What is the current best combination of BLU-RAY/DVD player software and sound card that would do the best job of sending surround audio (Dolby Digital/DTS) directly to a power amp? Not planning to run in to an AV receiver, want the HTPC to do all of the surround decoding /processing......
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post #2 of 37 Old 07-01-2014, 02:47 AM
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If you remove AACS protection (rip in ISO or MKV or play the disc with AnyDVD HD running in the background), you can play every title of the disc with, for example, MPC-BE, every HD audio track decoded bit-perfect (with the help of dtsdecoderdll.dll [see "Advanced MPC-HC Setup Guide" sticky thread]) to multichannel LPCM and any sound card will convert it to analog and send it to the amplifier. "MPC-BE" is easier than "MPC-HC" because the built-in audio renderer supports WASAPI exclusive mode. You lose BD menus, however.

You can use PowerDVD / TMT, but your sound card must support Protected Audio Path (PAP). All such sound cards have been discontinued, except for onboard audio chip such as Realtek ALC892 / ALC1150.
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post #3 of 37 Old 07-01-2014, 03:06 AM - Thread Starter
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I assume MPC is Media Player Classic, though i do not know what the BE or HC suffix means. I plan to play DVD's and Blu-Rays and and have the proper surround format output (if there is a choice of DD or DTS on the particular disc, will this program allow the selection of the desired one?). I am presently experimenting with an Asus Xonar HDAV1.3 Deluxe sound card with the H6 daughterboard and possibly getting an Asus Essence ST. In looking at software, i have read that both Arcsoft's and the latest WinDvd have good features....

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If you remove AACS protection (rip in ISO or MKV or play the disc with AnyDVD HD running in the background), you can play every title of the disc with, for example, MPC-BE, every HD audio track decoded bit-perfect (with the help of dtsdecoderdll.dll [see "Advanced MPC-HC Setup Guide" sticky thread]) to multichannel LPCM and any sound card will convert it to analog and send it to the amplifier. "MPC-BE" is easier than "MPC-HC" because the built-in audio renderer supports WASAPI exclusive mode. You lose BD menus, however.

You can use PowerDVD / TMT, but your sound card must support Protected Audio Path (PAP). All such sound cards have been discontinued, except for onboard audio chip such as Realtek ALC892 / ALC1150.
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post #4 of 37 Old 07-01-2014, 03:12 AM
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Two variations of Media Player Classic

MPC - HC (Home Cinema)
MPC - BE (Black Edition)
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post #5 of 37 Old 07-01-2014, 04:03 AM
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Asus Xonar HDAV1.3 Deluxe works with TMT. Audio downsampling occurs with Asus Essence ST + TMT because of the lack PAP. Once you rip BD in MKV or ISO (or folder), you can use any DirectShow player + dtsdecoderdll.dll and any sound card to get full quality BD audio. Selecting audio / subtitle track is supported with a proper player (e.g. MPC-HC/BE), of course.

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post #6 of 37 Old 07-01-2014, 04:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post
If you remove AACS protection (rip in ISO or MKV or play the disc with AnyDVD HD running in the background), you can play every title of the disc with, for example, MPC-BE, every HD audio track decoded bit-perfect (with the help of dtsdecoderdll.dll [see "Advanced MPC-HC Setup Guide" sticky thread]) to multichannel LPCM and any sound card will convert it to analog and send it to the amplifier. "MPC-BE" is easier than "MPC-HC" because the built-in audio renderer supports WASAPI exclusive mode. You lose BD menus, however.

You can use PowerDVD / TMT, but your sound card must support Protected Audio Path (PAP). All such sound cards have been discontinued, except for onboard audio chip such as Realtek ALC892 / ALC1150.
MPC-HC now also have LAVF included. What are the benefits of MPC-BE?
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post #7 of 37 Old 07-01-2014, 04:33 AM
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mpc - BE has proper working WASAPI. that a bigger thing.
mpc - BE still has the "old" internal codec which suppport some very rare files Lavfilter can't decode. for example PS2 audio. for advanced user this doesn't help at all. nothing wrong with having both.

mpc - HC has a nice chapter feature in the progress bar.
the list is way way longer: http://www.xvidvideo.ru/logi-izmenen...ic-be-eng.html have fun reading
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post #8 of 37 Old 07-01-2014, 11:42 AM - Thread Starter
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In your opinion, the HDAV1.3 is the better card for analog output then??

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Asus Xonar HDAV1.3 Deluxe works with TMT. Audio downsampling occurs with Asus Essence ST + TMT because of the lack PAP. Once you rip BD in MKV or ISO (or folder), you can use any DirectShow player + dtsdecoderdll.dll and any sound card to get full quality BD audio. Selecting audio / subtitle track is supported with a proper player (e.g. MPC-HC/BE), of course.
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post #9 of 37 Old 07-01-2014, 12:11 PM - Thread Starter
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I am asking these questions because in using the multi channel line outs from either the sound devices on the two motherboards i have and a Creative X-Fi Titanium, there is an objectionable amount of backgroung 'hiss' espesially during silence between songs or quiet moments of videos....the onboard sound chip on the board that will be the HTPC is a Realtek ALC898

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In your opinion, the HDAV1.3 is the better card for analog output then??
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post #10 of 37 Old 07-01-2014, 08:42 PM
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In your opinion, the HDAV1.3 is the better card for analog output then??
Better than what? Xonar HDAV1.3 Deluxe is the only choice if you want to enjoy the full quality Blu-ray audio with TMT without downsampling. Otherwise there are many sound cards equivalent to Xonar HDAV1.3 Deluxe in audio quality.
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post #11 of 37 Old 07-01-2014, 09:13 PM - Thread Starter
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Better compared to the onboard audio... Interesting thing, the Arcsoft TMT3 that came bundled with the Xonar never worked on any OS i tried it on..XP32, Vista 32/64, Win7 32/64...I wonder if it truly working with TMT6 (first Arcsoft product i tried that works-so far....)

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Better than what? Xonar HDAV1.3 Deluxe is the only choice if you want to enjoy the full quality Blu-ray audio with TMT without downsampling. Otherwise there are many sound cards equivalent to Xonar HDAV1.3 Deluxe in audio quality.
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post #12 of 37 Old 07-01-2014, 09:37 PM
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Yes. But why not compare them / test HDAV1.3 + TMT6 yourself?
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post #13 of 37 Old 07-03-2014, 08:57 PM - Thread Starter
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The HDAV1.3 is f#%ked! (Asus Xonar HDAV1.3 Deluxe with H6 daughter card) The rigs i tried it in are; 1-Asrock FM2A85X Extreme6, A8-5600 apu using onboard video and Windows 7 ultimate an a Gigabyte GA-990FXA-UD5, FX-8350 CPU, NVIDIA GTX 650ti. Both setups are using Arcsoft TMT 6. Analog audio plays in 2 channel for disc menu but when film starts, no audio. The card is selected both in TMT audio menu and the Xonar control panel (using latest UniXonar drivers). Not going to try it using digital outs as that i want to send analog audio directly to a power amp. The onboard audio on both boards work correctly. The weird part of this is that the Xonar seems to work correctly when playing music....BTW-when using the Xonar, i had onboard audio on both setups disabled.
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post #14 of 37 Old 07-03-2014, 09:10 PM
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Then you'd better rip BD in MKV or ISO and play it with MPC-BE/LAV audio decoder/dtsdecoderdll.dll and a discrete sound card (e.g. Xonar). You can't use Blu-ray menus, of course.
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post #15 of 37 Old 07-03-2014, 09:30 PM - Thread Starter
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Looking back at some old Xonar threads, it does seem these cards had problems. I will go it one more time trying MPC and see what happens before i give up on this and use a blu-ray player and av receiver....was really hoping that this attempt to build a HTPC Pre/Pro Frankenstein would work......


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Then you'd better rip BD in MKV or ISO and play it with MPC-BE/LAV audio decoder/dtsdecoderdll.dll and a discrete sound card (e.g. Xonar). You can't use Blu-ray menus, of course.
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post #16 of 37 Old 07-04-2014, 01:13 AM
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i'm using a asus xonar essence stx for years what problems are you talking about?
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post #17 of 37 Old 07-04-2014, 01:42 AM - Thread Starter
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Your STX is a 2 channel card if i am correct-My problems lie in the inability of the card to play surround audio in on either Blu Ray or DVD discs..., the closest one of the Xonars to mine would be the Xonar Essence ST (It also is able to use the H6 surround daughter card). I am running windows 7 Ultimate 64 bit. Using the card with Arcsoft TMT6, i only get 2 channel analog output ( i am using UniXonar drivers. The drivers on the install disc don't work at all, as well as the Asus version of Arcsoft TMT3). The Xonar control panel is fubar as it will not select 6 or 8 analog speakers

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i'm using a asus xonar essence stx for years what problems are you talking about?
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post #18 of 37 Old 07-04-2014, 01:54 AM - Thread Starter
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Did as you suggested and it works. What i think i have discovered is that the audio for the disc menus is in Dolby Digital and the actual movie is Dolby True HD which either the software, or more likely the Xonar HDAV1.3 analog output will not play nice with (i cannot find anywhere in TMT6 that would allow me to select the audio stream). I would still want to find some solution with whick i can actually play a disc and get the proper analog out....

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Then you'd better rip BD in MKV or ISO and play it with MPC-BE/LAV audio decoder/dtsdecoderdll.dll and a discrete sound card (e.g. Xonar). You can't use Blu-ray menus, of course.
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post #19 of 37 Old 07-04-2014, 02:30 AM - Thread Starter
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Did as you suggested and it works. What i think i have discovered is that the audio for the disc menus is in Dolby Digital and the actual movie is Dolby True HD which either the software, or more likely the Xonar HDAV1.3 analog output will not play nice with (i cannot find anywhere in TMT6 that would allow me to select the audio stream). I would still want to find some solution with whick i can actually play a disc and get the proper analog out....
Looking at the decoder specs for Arcsoft TMT6, i see nothing about Dolby True HD of or DTS HD format. Corel WinDvd Pro 11 lists them in its decoder formats. Going to try that software to see if i can get the desired analog out..will tell me if it is the card or software is the limiting factor...
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post #20 of 37 Old 07-04-2014, 02:58 AM
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TMT can decode dts hd to multi channel LPCM there is no question about this.

to check if your card can't send 7.1 simply play a 7.1 dd true hd test sample (like this http://www.demo-world.eu/trailers/hi...n-trailers.php i used bit harvest (lossless))in mpc hc look at lavaudio and the channels:


try the newer driver and set the card to 7.1(in my case this enables 5.1 real time dd live and the downmixer of the card)
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post #21 of 37 Old 07-04-2014, 06:28 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mightyhuhn View Post
TMT can decode dts hd to multi channel LPCM there is no question about this.

to check if your card can't send 7.1 simply play a 7.1 dd true hd test sample (like this http://www.demo-world.eu/trailers/hi...n-trailers.php i used bit harvest (lossless))in mpc hc look at lavaudio and the channels:


try the newer driver and set the card to 7.1(in my case this enables 5.1 real time dd live and the downmixer of the card)
Installed newest (2011) windows Xonar HDAV1.3 drivers and MPC-HC. Any of those samples play only in 2 channel on the analog outputs.....
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post #22 of 37 Old 07-04-2014, 12:14 PM - Thread Starter
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RE: my comment about the STX being a 2 channel card (does not have the header for the H6), just saw on the Asus Xonar website that there is anow a Xonar STX II that does support 5.1/7.1 http://www.asus.com/Sound_Cards_and_...nce_STX_II_71/ , i would like to get ahold of one to compare to the HDAV1.3 (or a Xonar Essence ST for that matter)

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Your STX is a 2 channel card if i am correct-My problems lie in the inability of the card to play surround audio in on either Blu Ray or DVD discs..., the closest one of the Xonars to mine would be the Xonar Essence ST (It also is able to use the H6 surround daughter card). I am running windows 7 Ultimate 64 bit. Using the card with Arcsoft TMT6, i only get 2 channel analog output ( i am using UniXonar drivers. The drivers on the install disc don't work at all, as well as the Asus version of Arcsoft TMT3). The Xonar control panel is fubar as it will not select 6 or 8 analog speakers
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post #23 of 37 Old 07-04-2014, 12:15 PM - Thread Starter
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RE: my comment about the STX being a 2 channel card (does not have the header for the H6), just saw on the Asus Xonar website that there is anow a Xonar STX II that does support 5.1/7.1 http://www.asus.com/Sound_Cards_and_...nce_STX_II_71/ , i would like to get ahold of one to compare to the HDAV1.3 (or a Xonar Essence ST for that matter)

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Your STX is a 2 channel card if i am correct-My problems lie in the inability of the card to play surround audio in on either Blu Ray or DVD discs..., the closest one of the Xonars to mine would be the Xonar Essence ST (It also is able to use the H6 surround daughter card). I am running windows 7 Ultimate 64 bit. Using the card with Arcsoft TMT6, i only get 2 channel analog output ( i am using UniXonar drivers. The drivers on the install disc don't work at all, as well as the Asus version of Arcsoft TMT3). The Xonar control panel is fubar as it will not select 6 or 8 analog speakers
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post #24 of 37 Old 07-04-2014, 01:29 PM
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this card works the same way your old card works so if your old card isn't working right (and it isn't working currenly...) this will not working too.

can you open the sound utility and lavaudio status and make a screen like mine.
do you get 5.1 at all?
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post #25 of 37 Old 07-04-2014, 02:48 PM - Thread Starter
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Ya know, i don't know where to get that lav audio program much less how to install it yet....I would really need to try another card of the Xonar series, eg. Essence ST or the new Essence STX 7.1 to test thing out. The original Asus software is buggy as hell and will not let me select anthing other than 2 channel headphones or speakers. To make the card work 80% correctly, i am using drivers from here: http://maxedtech.com/asus-xonar-unified-drivers/, the C-Media control panel is the the one that works fairly well.


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this card works the same way your old card works so if your old card isn't working right (and it isn't working currenly...) this will not working too.

can you open the sound utility and lavaudio status and make a screen like mine.
do you get 5.1 at all?
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post #26 of 37 Old 07-04-2014, 02:57 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vcrpro3 View Post
Ya know, i don't know where to get that lav audio program much less how to install it yet....I would really need to try another card of the Xonar series, eg. Essence ST or the new Essence STX 7.1 to test thing out. The original Asus software is buggy as hell and will not let me select anthing other than 2 channel headphones or speakers. To make the card work 80% correctly, i am using drivers from here: http://maxedtech.com/asus-xonar-unified-drivers/, the C-Media control panel is the the one that works fairly well.
Better capture...
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post #27 of 37 Old 07-04-2014, 03:08 PM - Thread Starter
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Btw, notice that the Asus control panel vs. yours is a different color and has a different name,...Just for shits and giggles, i downloaded and installed the driver for the Essence ST/STX and still got my version of the control panel...there must be some firmware on the card that does this....

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Better capture...
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post #28 of 37 Old 07-04-2014, 04:15 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
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Btw, notice that the Asus control panel vs. yours is a different color and has a different name,...Just for shits and giggles, i downloaded and installed the driver for the Essence ST/STX and still got my version of the control panel...there must be some firmware on the card that does this....
Aiii Chihuahua!!!!, one can get a decent AVR with all the decoding you could want for this price!!!!!!
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_no...20essence%20II
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post #29 of 37 Old 07-04-2014, 08:34 PM
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HD audio will be downsampled with TMT + any sound cards except for Xonar HDAV1.3 Deluxe and some VIA onboard audio chips. If you don't mind this (no downsampling with a free player, of course), then there are lots of good sound cards. For example,

HT | OMEGA Claro Halo XT
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post #30 of 37 Old 07-04-2014, 09:14 PM
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you have to change the system >input< to 8 channel for 7.1 or to 6 channel for 5.1 you simply didn't accept 5.1 or 7.1 audio at the moment even with 2.0 output you can change this setting.

here is mpc-hc with lavfilter: http://mpc-hc.org/downloads/
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