Live TV PQ on my HTPC is inferior to PQ on my cable box - Page 2 - AVS Forum
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post #31 of 34 Old 07-13-2014, 09:29 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by traumadisaster View Post
Just picked up the 8550 tonight for $1796. I have a gtx titan and I'm intrigued at your work and will give it a shot tomorrow and report back. I returned the lg 4k and hope this sammy is better than the sony 4k 49 inch that is $1999.
thanks, let me know how it goes. Curious to see if you have similar results. I compared the cable box and the cablecard at the same time, and used the cable box as the "reference point". Sometimes the differences were very subtle, but the box always edged out the HTPC until I stuck with 2160p @ 60 Hz. It's also important to have vsync on, and inverse telecine on. The rest I think don't make a huge difference in performance or PQ, but you're likely better off having higher quality video settings than performance-based settings, especially with a titan.

The rest depends on what player you use. I use xbmc which is more complex to set up due to the multitude of filters & video settings you can tweak. WMC has almost no customization, but that's a good thing, since it won't try to fight with the TV. The TV already has excellent upscaling and motion handling capabilities, so no need to over-do it in the HTPC.
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post #32 of 34 Old 07-13-2014, 09:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Hisma View Post
The rest depends on what player you use. I use xbmc which is more complex to set up due to the multitude of filters & video settings you can tweak. WMC has almost no customization, but that's a good thing, since it won't try to fight with the TV. The TV already has excellent upscaling and motion handling capabilities, so no need to over-do it in the HTPC.
I'm wondering which settings you arrived on here


And here



Acceleration should be enabling HQ scalers at a realistic percentage, and which video scaling method do you have chosen in the Video OSD settings? I think Lanczos 3 would be preferable, and I'm going to assume HW acceleration was already selected in the acceleration settings tab
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post #33 of 34 Old 07-13-2014, 10:01 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Dark_Slayer View Post
I'm wondering which settings you arrived on here
[IMG]http://wiki.xbmc.org/images/b/b1/Settings.videos.acceleration.png/IMG]

And here
[IMG]http://wiki.xbmc.org/images/e/e7/VideoSettings.png/IMG]


Acceleration should be enabling HQ scalers at a realistic percentage, and which video scaling method do you have chosen in the Video OSD settings? I think Lanczos 3 would be preferable, and I'm going to assume HW acceleration was already selected in the acceleration settings tab
Pic 1
render method - DXVA-HD (I messed with that a lot, found that either auto, DXVA, or DXVA-HD didn't make a huge difference in performance, so I stuck with DXVA-HD).
HQ Scaling - 0% for now. I messed with numbers like 50%, even 100%, but again wasn't one that had big impact on performance
DXVA2 enabled (not sure why the pic you showed has VDADecoder, I dont' have that option)

Pic 2
Deinterlace -off. I have to leave this off, with it set to "on" or "auto", I see obvious artifacts like text shimmering & diagonal lines look like crap.
Scaling method - bicubic. I think that is one of the simplest scaling methods available. If I leave it at auto, the picture totally screws up (unless I set xbmc to run fullscreen window instead of true fullscreen). I know Lanczos 3 is apparently the best, but it unfortunately lowers performance.

Rest is all defaults. I spent weeks playing with diff settings... some of those settings above don't have huge impact on performance and you could probably change & still work fine. The biggest ones for me were to leave de-interlace off, and to have the GPU do all the rendering possible.
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post #34 of 34 Old 07-28-2014, 02:15 PM - Thread Starter
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continuing to raise this one up, as I can't seem to give up.

Some things I've noticed -
Turning on de-interlacing in xbmc fixes the motion issues, but induces shimmering/moire/jaggies.
If I connect my laptop to the TV and watch live TV through the laptop, I get no shimmer/moire that I get with de-interlacing turned on.
No shimmer/moire with using the intel 3000 integrated graphics either.

So it appears to be a video card problem mostly. What sucks is that it's a 750ti that I paid $160 for very recently. I don't want to dump it just yet, especially for integrated graphics.

My next step is going to be to try to use jriver video player, which allows madvr rendering. Madvr seems to fix the issues, since it has vastly superior de-interlacing than xbmc.

I'm not the first person to experience this issue.

Here's what de-interlacing does to logos, for instance:



Unacceptable. Again with de-interlacing off I get ghosting and poor motion.

Here's a big thread on it on TGB.
http://www.thegreenbutton.tv/forums/...flicker#p65194
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post #35 of 34 Old 08-03-2014, 09:44 PM - Thread Starter
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I promise this will be my last post here! I want this to be around for anyone else who runs into similar issues as myself, since these pages do end up in google searches.

So I found other users out there who had similar issues as myself, but none of the solutions ever solved my problem.

But now I have to say I have found a resolution that may work for those who have issues with aliasing and shimmering and flashing problems in live TV.

For me, it was due to DXVA de-interlacing. Took me forever to pinpoint, but playing with XBMC finally isolated it. If you use WMC, it appears that it uses DXVA hardware accelerated de-interlacing by default. You can't control de-interlacing config in WMC, so you're stuck with it. This causes shimmering and aliasing in some setups (I can't find a common link... seem to be more than just the specific video cards).

With xbmc, you have much more granular control over what decoding and filters are used.

I found this is the best setup, performance and PQ-wise -

Video Settings - Acceleration
  • DXVA-HD
  • 0%
  • Use Hardware Accelerated Decoding
  • DXVA2 UNCHECKED. THIS IS IMPORTANT. If you leave it checked, your only option is DXVA de-interlacing. Without it checked, you can use other software-based de-interlacing.

Video settings inside the video player -
  • Deinterlace video - auto
  • Deinterlace method - De-interlace. THIS IS ALSO IMPORTANT. If you set to "auto", or choose "DXVA Best" or "DXVA Bob", you WILL have problems. De-interlace apparently uses software-based de-interlacing, or some other non-DXVA-based de-interlacing.
  • Scaling method - Lancoz3 (I don't notice much difference between the types honestly, at least for live TV PQ. You can leave this on auto or whatever you prefer, it doesn't impact performance much for me).

That's it. Aliasing is 100% gone. Moire is 90% gone. Shimmering is about 85% gone. Still see it during some slow pans and certain text, but it's not near as bad as it looks with DXVA de-interlacing, not even close. Definitely acceptable now.

OK, I'm done, unless anyone else has any other questions/comments. Hope my plight helps someone else out in the future that is struggling with poor Live TV PQ.
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