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post #1 of 59 Old 07-16-2014, 06:10 PM - Thread Starter
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Flexraid Media Server for WD TV

I'm looking to build a media server for streaming videos to the WD TV media boxes in my house. I've done some homework, but I need advise on specific hardware.

First and foremost, this will be a high capacity media server. It won't be connected to a TV. I have intentions of starting off with my 2 3TB drives, and a parity drive. Its essential that I have the ability to add more drives over time, one reason why I'm going with Flexraid.

Additionally, all media will be copied from my primary machine, so no ripping, converting, or downloading will happen on the media server. I need to be able to remotely administrator this server from my desktop.

I'm looking at the CM Storm Trooper case for airflow, and the ability to mount the drives with coolers.

I'm at a loss about what specific hardware to run; motherboard, processor, ect. I know a need a motherboard with at least 8 SATA ports, preferably 10. Actually the more the better. I won't be needing much in the way of graphics and sound output. I'm also only looking to get a processor that can handle the job well without going overboard on processing power it won't use.

Power supply, memory, and other components would be greatly appreciated as well. I intend to run the operating system on an internal SSD.
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post #2 of 59 Old 07-16-2014, 07:39 PM
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You did not list a budget

A couple questions:

1st- Would you ever want to transcode on the fly your media for use while away from home, or on other devices like ROKU, ipad, iphone, laptops, android, kindle, windows phone, etc... ? If not- and you are certain you can skimp on the CPU without much penalty, it will serve media over LAN just fine with a Pentium or Celeron for short money. (under $50 CPU)

If you might, then you want an i3 or greater. i3 can't handle multiple streams though, so i5 is safer bet if you want two streams at the same time. I do this all the time. Actually I just remoted into my Flexraid server and checked, wife is watching via PLEX on our ROKU and my parents are watching at their house via Mediabrowser 3 app for their ROKU. At times I join the mix with the ipad, and my brother does at his house with his HTPC or his ROKU. This functionality is really the only reason you need a beefy CPU. You do not need a beefy CPU to just send data over LAN as a server.

2nd, Do you have a space requirement ? How many drives ideally do you want capacity for ? I have 20 in mine, and I need more. I have a Norco 4220 server case. If you read my thread you'll see I had a few cases before that, and I kept upgrading to get where I am. Same story on the CPU, I started with a Celeron, then a Pentium, today I have an i7 My advice is do it right the first time. It's easier.

3rd- Would you ever want support for bigger than 3TB? I have 4TB parity drives in mine just in case I wanted to add a 4TB drive for data, but to date I keep adding 3TB because cost is effective, and also performance is better.

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post #3 of 59 Old 07-16-2014, 07:43 PM
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Of the top of my head:

Asrock Socket 1150 mobo with 8 Sata ports (get one with dual x8/x8 ability for sata cards in future)
Dual core for never transcoding / quad core for remote access media sharing and transcoding multiple streams
8GB DDR3. 1866mhz is good, 2400mhz is better. 1600mhz is satisfactory (but not much cheaper)
Case: Your choice
SSD: Samsung EVO
OS: WHS or Windows + FLEXRAID
PSU: Seasonic or Rosewill Capstone 650watt is solid choice, plan ahead for more drives. 550watt probably enough unless you want lots of HDD's

Hard to hate on any of this ^.

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post #4 of 59 Old 07-17-2014, 05:43 AM - Thread Starter
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Budget; I'm going to spread it out over the next 6 months, my current set-up will suffice until I can get everything ordered and assembled. Even with that in mind, I don't want to go overboard and get a bunch of excess tech I won't use. The ability to upgrade later is more important than going full throttle initially.

1st. I don't foresee that, but the idea of a plex server is intriguing. The ability to run a motherboard that will accommodate an upgrade to a beefier I3, I5, or I7 down the road would be best.


2nd. Space requirements are not a terrible issue. If its too big I'll stick it in the basement, or in a closet. I want a case big enough to ensure good airflow for 8-10 hard drives. Additionally, I'll need a power supply that can accommodate that much hardware. A PS that is good on power consumption when I'm not using the disks would be good as well, though that might be more of a software solution than a PS feature.


3rd. Yes. After adding my two 3TB and the initial parity drive, I intend to load 5TB drives. Possibly bigger as technology progresses and prices come down.


Motherboard; After looking at the Asrock family, would I benefit more from a card like the Asrock Z97 Extreme6, that natively supports 10 SATA drives, or dial it down a notch and get a SATA controller in addition.


Processor, I'm looking at the Intel Celeron G1850 Haswell (2.9) initially, with the potential to upgrade if my requirements change down the road.

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post #5 of 59 Old 07-17-2014, 05:53 AM
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You are on right track, celeron is fine; swap it out for beefier if you need it later.

PSU any 80plus gold like the two brands I mentioned; 550 watts is enough for 8-10 hdds.

Mobo is tough call; you get additional features with Asrock extreme 6 like dual intel LAN, advanced fan controllers, more PCI express etc... So going cheaper then adding sata card isn't really apples to apples. But any h97 board should suffice for you in reality.

You can ask in my Flexraid thread, those guys can help I'm sure. We get off topic a little, could use a nice refresher to get back on track

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post #6 of 59 Old 07-17-2014, 07:52 AM - Thread Starter
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Is the SATA cards inherently disadvantaged when compared to on board ports on the mobo?

Also, thanks for the help. I've been following your threads on your personal builds. Great advice.


I haven't built a computer in almost 10 years, bought my primary desktop on cyberpower two years ago. Is there a site or thread that details all the extra stuff I'll need other than the obvious hardware? (I work in IT, but hardware is not my forte)
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post #7 of 59 Old 07-17-2014, 10:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post
8GB DDR3. 1866mhz is good, 2400mhz is better. 1600mhz is satisfactory (but not much cheaper)
What are the benefits of having faster ram on a storage/media server?

RAID protection is only for failed drives. That's it. It's no replacement for a proper backup.
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post #8 of 59 Old 07-17-2014, 10:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ajhieb View Post
What are the benefits of having faster ram on a storage/media server?
It's more a matter of such a small cost that it's not as good a value to save $2 on slower RAM IMO.

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post #9 of 59 Old 07-17-2014, 10:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post
It's more a matter of such a small cost that it's not as good a value to save $2 on slower RAM IMO.
Is there any tangible benefit at all to having faster ram in a storage/media server?

RAID protection is only for failed drives. That's it. It's no replacement for a proper backup.
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post #10 of 59 Old 07-17-2014, 10:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ajhieb View Post
Is there any tangible benefit at all to having faster ram in a storage/media server?
Programs you install would run better.
Encoding or trans coding would be improved if you choose to do it
Small system speed increase
IGPU performance is improved.
Flexraid performance is improved (flexraid is RAM dependent)

Basically the difference is small (2%-8%) but the real question you should ask is:

"Is there any reason you purposefully should choose slower and lower performance RAM?"

I don't see any really good reasons. Perhaps if there was a significant difference in price and you had a tight budget, but that's about it it.

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post #11 of 59 Old 07-17-2014, 11:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post
Programs you install would run better. what programs? What do you mean "Better?"
Encoding or trans coding would be improved if you choose to do it Improved how? Will the quality of transcoding be better?
Small system speed increase What system speed?
IGPU performance is improved. How will this improve the server?
Flexraid performance is improved (flexraid is RAM dependent) Buy how much? Benchmarks to support these claims?

Basically the difference is small (2%-8%) but the real question you should ask is:

"Is there any reason you purposefully should choose slower and lower performance RAM?"

I don't see any really good reasons. Perhaps if there was a significant difference in price and you had a tight budget, but that's about it it.
Why does that have to be the question I should ask? Why can't I ask "Why should I spend more for RAM that probably won't effect my server in any meaningful way?"

RAID protection is only for failed drives. That's it. It's no replacement for a proper backup.
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post #12 of 59 Old 07-17-2014, 12:06 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post
Flexraid performance is improved (flexraid is RAM dependent)

That's a big tangible reason for me to go with more RAM.
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post #13 of 59 Old 07-17-2014, 12:16 PM
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That's a big tangible reason for me to go with more RAM.
Yeah, I could be wrong, but I my understanding is that the quantity of ram will have a bigger impact than the quality of the ram (ie the speed of the ram)

Even then, I'm not sure that it will have much of an impact on normal day-to-day usage. I suspect that the only significant performance impact that will be noticed by fiddling with RAM is on flexraid maintenance (parity updates, etc) and even then I'm not sure how much of an impact there will be.

FWIW I've been searching the interwebz for anything that suggest that faster RAM will improve flexraid performance and I've yet to find anything.

RAID protection is only for failed drives. That's it. It's no replacement for a proper backup.
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post #14 of 59 Old 07-17-2014, 12:23 PM
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Quote:
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That's a big tangible reason for me to go with more RAM.
He was asking about different RAM speeds, I was assuming he meant with the same amount of RAM.

I.E. 1600mhz vs 2400mhz.

Difference is small. But it does exist and 2400mhz is better. The proper decision is individualized, based on available products at available prices. I find most cases the faster RAM doesn't cost more than the slower stuff, so perhaps the value of that is better. Any ram would work fine though.

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post #15 of 59 Old 07-17-2014, 12:23 PM - Thread Starter
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Would the integrated graphics on the Intel Celeron G1850 be enough for my initial needs?
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post #16 of 59 Old 07-17-2014, 12:28 PM
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FWIW I've been searching the interwebz for anything that suggest that faster RAM will improve flexraid performance and I've yet to find anything.
I think you just want to argue. That's ok.

How about this:

I just spent an hour searching the interwebz for anything that suggest slower speed ram will work just as well or better as faster ram in Flexraid and I've yet to find anything.

For the 2%-8% difference in performance from fast high end ram vs slow low end ram I'm not sure it's worth debating this or discussing it further. Use any ram you can find for a good price. If the faster/better stuff isn't significantly expensive that's your best option. That's my final answer.



Quote:
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Would the integrated graphics on the Intel Celeron G1850 be enough for my initial needs?
Yes. Assuming you only wanted basic playback of sources at 1080p or lower and did not require 3D.

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post #17 of 59 Old 07-17-2014, 12:31 PM
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Would the integrated graphics on the Intel Celeron G1850 be enough for my initial needs?
Well, you stated it won't be connected to a TV, so any video controller should suffice. If you're okay with remote administration no video card at all would be fine once your OS is installed and configured.

RAID protection is only for failed drives. That's it. It's no replacement for a proper backup.
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post #18 of 59 Old 07-17-2014, 12:39 PM
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Quote:
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How about this:

I just spent an hour searching the interwebz for anything that suggest slower speed ram will work just as well or better as faster ram in Flexraid and I've yet to find anything.
You made a definitive claim that faster RAM would improve Flexraid performance. If you can't back up your claim, that's fine. Seems like poor advice to recommend faster ram (and you've done it in other threads for storage/media servers) based on unsubstantiated claims.

Can you even elaborate on what exactly performs better with the faster ram? Is write performance increased? Read performance? Parity calculations finish quicker? Flexraid management software opens 5 ┬Ás faster? What exactly is the benefit that you're claiming?

RAID protection is only for failed drives. That's it. It's no replacement for a proper backup.
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post #19 of 59 Old 07-17-2014, 12:45 PM - Thread Starter
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PSU: Seasonic or Rosewill Capstone 650watt is solid choice, plan ahead for more drives.
The Rosewill has 8 SATA connectors, is that the limit, or can I get splitter and double up? I'm aiming for 10 drives.
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post #20 of 59 Old 07-17-2014, 02:07 PM
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The Rosewill has 8 SATA connectors, is that the limit, or can I get splitter and double up? I'm aiming for 10 drives.
You can get a splitter. I like the silverstone one with built in capacitor for spin up. It's like $10. Takes one sata power to 3 or 4.

You could use multiple if you really needed.

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post #21 of 59 Old 07-17-2014, 03:26 PM
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Flexraid aggressively uses ram, but that doesn't matter for large sequential writes greater than it's ram cache. When I run my server with 16GB of ram, Flexraid will hold up about 4 or more GB if I recall correctly. That takes care of small writes. When the size of the file surpassed that the insane speeds stabilize

For the same price faster would be better, but I don't usually see 16GB ddr3-2400 for the same price as 1600. I'd honestly say more than 1600 is really only useful for advanced video rendering with an integrated gpu or gaming. It can probably lead to instability in your server

More is better. Faster can be worse unless it's just as cheap and known to be stable
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post #22 of 59 Old 07-17-2014, 05:07 PM
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thanks dark slayer. i like your ability to provide a nice simple counter point. a skill i value.

think OP has enough info to make a decision on RAM speed. the thread can move on now.




...or can it?!? dun dun dun. we will find out on the next episode of "As The World Turns!"

note: the post above is my opinion. as such, when reading any recommendations from me, please do you research and seek out other recommendations and make up your own mind on your next course of action. i mean, most reasonable adults should know that, but it seems this should be stated anyways.
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post #23 of 59 Old 07-17-2014, 05:14 PM
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Yeah I agree. I never intended to talk about ram much, a simple two sentences should suffice.

@ OP,

what are you thinking ?

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post #24 of 59 Old 07-17-2014, 05:58 PM - Thread Starter
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As far as the ram goes, since I'm going with ASRock Z97 Extreme6, I'll have 4 slots & I'll add 8 gigs at a time as the need arises.


The more I look, server cases like NORCO RPC-2008 2U seem like a more desirable option when considering space & external bays. What special considerations do I need when picking out hardware for such a case? I know it needs a fairly slim 2U power supply.
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post #25 of 59 Old 07-17-2014, 07:11 PM
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Do you want sata ports or a SAS8087 backplane ?

Do you want a case that has a single IDE power that powers up the whole row ? Or run a seperate sata power plug to each drive?

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post #26 of 59 Old 07-18-2014, 03:00 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
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Do you want sata ports or a SAS8087 backplane ?

Do you want a case that has a single IDE power that powers up the whole row ? Or run a seperate sata power plug to each drive?
I'm not terribly familiar with server hardware, but it seems like a single power cable would a lot easier on cable management. Also, I suppose I'd go with SATA ports instead of SAS, for price
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post #27 of 59 Old 07-18-2014, 05:59 AM
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The single wire for 4 drives is a lot nicer

That's something to consider if you are looking at Norco cases. I'm happy with mine. Avoids the "splitter" too, and actually gives you a reason for IDE power plugs.

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post #28 of 59 Old 07-18-2014, 06:21 AM - Thread Starter
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What kind of power supply and mobo are you running? Would I have a problem with a ASRock Z97?
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post #29 of 59 Old 07-18-2014, 09:51 AM
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I have a few machines, but my flexraid server has a Z77 Asrock board (Z77 was new back in 2012) in it and my PSU is a Rosewill Capstone.


The rosewill capstone is a good PSU, it's OEM by superflower and 80+ Gold efficiency. They give you plenty of long and well sleeved cables too. I've used a lot of PSU before and I can recommend the Rosewill superflower units without any hesitation.

I've rebuilt my server a bunch of times so far but I am pretty happy these days (except I ran out of drive bays in my case). I am trying to figure out an add on for that now. I'd like support for 8 more drives.

There is a ton of pictures in my flexraid thread if you need to see something specific just ask and I can dig it up.

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post #30 of 59 Old 07-18-2014, 12:56 PM - Thread Starter
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Will a standard power supply fit in a 2U case, or do I need a slim one designed for a server case?
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