AVS Forum banner

Cablecard is in trouble - House votes to dump requirement

7K views 99 replies 35 participants last post by  htpcforever 
#1 ·
http://thehill.com/policy/technolog...-house-to-vote-on-stela-paving-way-for-senate

the bill will also make some changes to the way broadcasters negotiate with cable and satellite companies, eliminate a federal requirement for specific security equipment in cable boxes and give broadcasters more time to unwind resource-sharing arrangements that the Federal Communications Commission effectively banned earlier this year.
Basically the House voted to stop mandating cablecard support. Now the Senate has to vote on it.
 
#2 ·
http://thehill.com/policy/technolog...-house-to-vote-on-stela-paving-way-for-senate



Basically the House voted to stop mandating cablecard support. Now the Senate has to vote on it.
It's my understanding that there are two separate requirements that were implemented separately.

(A) that they allow third party devices to interface with their cable networks and decrypt protected content

(B) that their own solutions utilize this decryption system rather than utilize custom decryption (the so-called integration ban)

(A) was in place for several years before (B). The idea behind (B) was that it would incentivize the cable companies to provide better cablecard support, though obviously the results have been mixed.

In the news coverage I've only seen reference to repealing (B). Has (A) been repealed too?
 
#3 ·
With news that Tivo and Comcast are working together for a non-cable card solution, could we be looking at a software solution here? Similar to how you can watch NCAA tournament online, if you log in using your cable account? I'd be for that, as long as I'm not forced to pay outrageous fees for cable card set top boxes.
 
#6 ·
The "Integration Ban" is what was repealed. So thats the requirement that cable companies use cablecards inside their own boxes.

http://www.fiercecable.com/story/ca...d-set-top-security-integration-ban/2013-09-27

ACA CEO Matt Polka said that the FCC's set-top security integration ban has been "especially harmful to small cable operators, who were forced to rely on expensive CableCARD-enabled boxes that were disproportionately more costly than for larger cable operators."
Polka also noted that operators would continue to supply subscribers who buy TiVo DVRs and other set-tops at retail outlets with CableCARDs that could be used to watch subscription video.
Those two statements are at odds with each other. If using a cablecard is burdonsome to a small provider in their box you have to imagine they will make the argument its cost prohibitive in yours too.



Some channels (ESPN, TBS) aleady offer live programming over the internet. You either use a web browser (PC) or dedicated app (Android, iOS). That's part of the reason I'm interested in an Android based all in one WMC-HTPC replacement. I seriously doubt that whatever follows traditional digital cable and cablecards will have an HTPC implementation developed for it.
 
#12 ·
That sounds like egress. Do you live in an area with older cable lines? Poor shielding on the cables could cause the signal to "escape" out into the air.

I live in an old city neighborhood with a lot of hundred year old homes and noticed the opposite. Before Comcast shut down clearqam I ran their feed direct to a qam/atsc/fm tuner. I picked up moat fm channels clear as day using Comcast's line as an antenna.
 
#14 ·
That sounds like egress. Do you live in an area with older cable lines? Poor shielding on the cables could cause the signal to "escape" out into the air
I don't think so, interesting though

How soon could this realistically affect all Comcast customers who use cablecard tuners for their HTPCs? My guess is Comcast will keep their systems backwards compatible for existing cablecard devices in the field for several years
There newest STBs (X1) still use cablecards. Who knows how much they sunk into development and the cost to purchase the first batches that are littering their stores and cold-call/junk-mail ads, so I don't expect them to retire the standard for at least another 2-3 years (unless a competitor really creates something remarkable causing subscriber bleed)
 
#15 ·
I wouldn't go into a panic about losing your cablecards. Anyone that currently uses cablecard-based STBs or standalone cards in their tuners will be able to use them until such time as your provider changes their infrastructure, which isn't going to happen anytime soon. The only real caveat is that nothing would prevent them from jacking up the monthly fees for equipment that's already been deployed. You may also not be able to rent new cablecards once this legislation goes into effect. I suspect that providers with existing stock will keep renting them until they've exhausted their supply. STBs and DVRs that get returned will eventually be replaced with newer hardware.
 
#19 ·
I will admit to cord cutting the television part, but i kept the internet part, so i still have a Comcast cable coming to the house.

With this current government of do nothing, we seem to be stuck. I don't see anything being done. I can actually see them letting the sat expire and leave millions without local channels in rural areas, as that is sat top market, based on the nelson studies.
 
#24 ·
What is it about open source that precludes the recording of DRM content? I would bet someone could produce an open-source version of Play Ready. Probably, the only real barrier is cost of development. Getting the right certifications is not cheap, quick or easy.

I have always wondered why Microsoft never stripped the media center component from Windows and made it a stand-alone application for the home theater market and at the same time support plug-in developers. Media Center is still the most popular front end out there for home theater application. Another opportunity squandered.
 
#23 ·
I think few would argue that cable cards are the way of the future, so I can see why it makes sense to open the door for moving on. But, the cable card requirements do exist for a reason, and those reasons need to be addressed in any change to the requirements. Customers need to have some control over their cable signal, and should not be forced/leveraged into paying for hardware from only the cable company. Make sure that doesn't happen, and I won't complain too much.
 
#25 ·
Its been obvious for a while that Microsoft lacked a coherent "entertainment" strategy. They've had so many fragmented programs in place to address that piecemeal.

The PC-extender model probably came from two main reasons. #1 being cost. At the time this stuff was in active develpment (2005-2009 give or take) hard drives were smaller and more expensive, processors were less powerful and more expensive, and there were no networkable multi stream tuners. Having one central computer and less powerful WMC extenders made sense. The 2nd reason would be the Copy Once nonsense. Back when the Infinitv was first released (only a year or so into W7) there was some hope that WMC would be updated to allow Homegroup PCs to share recordings (or that Softsled would become a reality). Didn't happen.

But today a WMC environment makes infinitely more sense. Why couldn't an Xbox 360 or One be updated to run WMC exactly like our computers do? Have them interact with the tuner and record directly. Rebadge a Ceton or Hauppage tuner as an official Microsoft Xbox accessory and sell them in the video game section at Best Buy and Walmart. Even better have the Comcast reps inside the Best Buys stores GIVE you a cablecard on your way home.

Or think about movie and music sales and playback. There were weird 3rd party stores built into WMP (that WMC could partially navigate). The links are still there, but the stores aren't. Now that Microsoft has the Xbox Music and Xbox Video services on their game consoles why not bring that back into WMC? Have a store that rents and sells movies inside the software just like the Xbox does.
 
#29 ·
My desire/interest for cable TV at current rates is already pretty marginal...and that's with the getting on new 'promo' rates when old ones expire + my single cablecard....nevermind regular prices and $20-$30+ worth of boxes for a couple TV's. I don't think this stuff does have much near term impact for me, but once my cablecard is no good (or I move and can't get one), even with decent 'promo' service rates, that will be it for me. It will be OTA + internet content for me at that point....even if I need to invest in a substantial antenna setup for reception.
 
#30 ·
I bought a TIVO HD years ago with cable card support from comcast. It worked great but when comcast refused to extend my triple play bundle at the introductory price, (they had done this several times before) I decided to cut the cord. I went to ATT with an internet and phone deal for less than $50/month. Between OTA and Netflix I'm happy.
 
#33 ·
http://multichannel.com/news/technology/cablecard-deployments-push-past-47m/374461

The nation’s top nine incumbent cable operators have deployed more than 47 million MSO-supplied set-tops with CableCARDs, the National Cable & Telecommunications Association told the FCC in a report filed Friday (May 9). That’s up from about 45 million when the NCTA filed its FCC report in late January.

The number of CableCARDs deployed in leased devices continues to dwarf the number of modules used in devices with CableCARD slots sold at retail, including TiVo DVRs and a limited number of HDTV models. In its latest report, the NCTA said the nine largest U.S. MSOs have deployed over 616,000 CableCARDs for use in retail devices, just 10,000 more than the 606,000 reported in January.
 
#34 ·
I just hope whatever eventually replaces cablecard technology allows users to set up their own devices. I have some issues with WMC and my ceton cable card tuner but it beats paying upwards of $30 or more a month for the cable companies boxes that I would need. Of course my wife sees it differently, she just wants a TV that works and isn't all "complicated"
 
#35 · (Edited)
Whatever the successor is to cablecard will need software/apps written. Open source won't cut it - this will have to come from a company with deep pockets.

I can imagine apps for Android TV, or Samsung Smart TV, or Roku branded devices, but I wonder who would lead the development of Windows or Mac based front end type software (I don't think anyone will if Ceton and/or Silicon Dust haven't done it yet). This next interation could be what Apple uses to finally debut a television set.
 
#39 ·
Whatever the successor is to cablecard will need software/apps written. Open source won't cut it - this will have to come from a company with deep pockets.
Open source would be fine if these companies would just admit that DRM doesn't even work and only encourages people to seek illegal solutions that are easier to use than the legal ones. It's already seemed to work in the music business, as services like iTunes and Pandora have made getting legal music cheap and easy, so old, illegal alternatives like Napster have fallen to the wayside.
 
#40 ·
Cablecard, Playready, DRM etc etc all need to die. The question is, will they? I suspect not.

There may or may not be a successor to cablecard, but practically speaking nothing will change. You'll still have restrictions, you'll still have DRM, proprietary solutions and what not. Why? You guys are thinking of this from a consumer perspective.

If I was the CEO of HBO and I had to make a decision - Why don't I launch a web platform (and associated apps) and allow paying users to stream my stuff directly from me, rather than via their cable/sat setup??

Well, let's see how much can I charge them...Hmm..the only comparison is Netflix. And that's $7-8 a month. WHAT? Is Hastings nuts? What is wrong with him?? Hmm...then there's Amazon. Wait, they give away their video library FREE to Prime members! But their users do pay them $99 a year...and that's what? $8 a month. What is wrong with Bezos?? Is he nuts?

 
#41 ·
It is bizarre that the CCI copy restrictions exist on cablecard usage when you consider the only real content they serve to protect (hbo, cinemax, showtime, etc) is usually available within an hour after the end of the original broadcast in "other" places. Don't know why Comcast, Fios, Charter, Cox, TWC, etc think that those of us paying for the content monthly won't just dump the tv portion eventually
 
#42 ·
I believe copy restrictions are set by the content owners, not the re-broadcasters.

One year, SupeBowl was set to "copy never" on cable (still no restrictions over OTA), but that was set by the owner of the content, the NFL.
 
#43 ·
And you would be incorrect in that assumption, given that TWC, Brighthouse and Cox all set copy-once on a ton of channels that Comcast, Verizon, Charter etc. don't.

The premiums like HBO have their own restrictions, sure. But all the other non-local channels are subject to the decision of the cableCo you're with.
 
#48 ·
And you would be incorrect in that assumption, given that TWC, Brighthouse and Cox all set copy-once on a ton of channels that Comcast, Verizon, Charter etc. don't.

The premiums like HBO have their own restrictions, sure. But all the other non-local channels are subject to the decision of the cableCo you're with.
There is a two layer approach going on, the provider and the owner, with the most restrictive limit being the one that is put in place. If the provider normally has everything marked as Copy Freely but the owner wants it marked as Copy Once, it gets marked as Copy Once. If the owner does not care (which means Copy Freely) but the provider marks most things as Copy Once, then it gets marked as Copy Once.


That is why Verizon FiOS (normally Copy Freely) has only the premium channels marked as Copy Once.
 
#46 ·
I agree, if all of this cord cutting stuff takes over and the content creators move to an all-streaming environment, that would be a disappointing future. I like the advantages that come with using a DVR.

Once I record something, I can "consume" it the way I want to. No chance that it will suddenly disappear from availability like Netflix or on-demand often do.

I can also forward through the ads when I want, which Hulu and on-demand don't allow. Fios does allow you to forward at 2x speed using on-demand, but that's not nearly as convenient as pressing the skip forward button a few times.

Plus with WMC and Tivo, you can save your recordings on external HDs to rewatch in the future and you can load the recordings on to a tablet and watch them where you want without worrying about a wifi signal.

I think people that are always going on about how the current environment with the cable companies is bad may not realize that its actually pretty good right now. :)
 
#53 ·
Sure. So there's software called "PlayOn" and a second companion software called "Play Later". They are always going on sale, so there's no need to pay full price for them. You can pay a yearly subscription for each, but it's a MUCH better deal to wait until they're on sale (every other month it seems), and get the lifetime licenses.

PlayOn lets you stream Netflix, Hulu, Amazon, MLB, NHL, NFL (all requiring subscriptions of course), as well as CBS, NBC, and most any other streaming service, inc. YouTube and any streaming video link you can find.

It should be obvious it requires a running computer (we're talking about streaming, duh). Butif you're worried about electricity use, keep in mind, your cable DVR NEVER shuts off , even when you push the power button.

It plays these streams out to a Roku, Xbox, PS3/4, Chromecast, iPad, or Android tablet or phone.

PlayLater works with PlayOn to "record" the streams. These recordings can be kept indefinitely, and copied to any device that can play mp4 files, inc. an iPad or Android device.

Say you watch Blue Bloods, but you don't want to pay for Hulu Plus. You can "record" each episode during the season using PlayLater. As free Hulu pulls episodes (I think they usually only keep 4 at any given time), yours remain on your device. At the end of the season, you can binge watch it if you like. You can also skip the commercials, as you would with any video file.

I have dozens of movies I've "recorded" from Netflix. As Netflix removes them, I get to keep them.

I could, if I wanted, subscribe to HBO for a month, record seasons of HBO series from HBOGO, then cancel HBO and spend a few months watching my recordings.

Then there's Usenet and Torrents, which, contrary to what many people have been brainwashed into thinking, are not all illegal files. There are tons of public domain shows like The Beverly Hillbillies and Gilligan's Island available. No need to subscribe to expanded basic to get TV Land. There are even programs that can automatically search out these shows and download them for you.

Cable in it's present form will continue for some time. Your cable co. gives you a remote control, but the reality is they push the buttons. Personally, I believe streaming is the future. Whether it controls you, or you control it is up to you.

Damn it Chloe, we're running out of time. Use the not a computer device!
 
#63 ·
Sure. So there's software called "PlayOn" and a second companion software called "Play Later"....
Interesting. I checked on their site, and it seems to be software you install on a home PC where it will record streams that you indicate and then it serves the recordings out to Roku boxes throughout the house. It's certainly not a turn key system though. Apparently Hulu doesn't carry all TV shows, so you have to program a patchwork of streams to record from. And there isn't really anyone to call when something goes wrong because you are using your own hardware, through the PlayOn software, to record content from Hulu and other providers, over your cable companies internet lines.

I have dozens of movies I've "recorded" from Netflix. As Netflix removes them, I get to keep them.

I could, if I wanted, subscribe to HBO for a month, record seasons of HBO series from HBOGO, then cancel HBO and spend a few months watching my recordings.

Then there's Usenet and Torrents, which, contrary to what many people have been brainwashed into thinking, are not all illegal files. There are tons of public domain shows like The Beverly Hillbillies and Gilligan's Island available. No need to subscribe to expanded basic to get TV Land. There are even programs that can automatically search out these shows and download them for you.
All of this sounds like it turns watching TV into a job or a chore. I mean, sure, I could DVR a bunch of stuff to watch on HBO and then call the cable co. and cancel it for a few months, but what does doing that get me?

Public domain choices aren't really a concern, since I already know what I want to watch. I don't want to change what I watch simply because that is all that is available using these methods. I want to come home from work and turn the TV on knowing that my shows recorded and can be watched that night. Depending on this patchwork of providers, hardware and software sounds like far too much hassle. It would be easier to just buy the DVD sets of the shows that I watch and view them commercial free that way.

I just don't see an advantage to this method of content delivery over what we have today.
 
#57 ·
Do they not allow you to pay extra for more GB's? And if so, which is cheaper: paying for more GB's, or paying for expanded TV service and DVR rentals?

I don't know about Comcast (I'm lucky enough to not live in their service area), but we were paying about $75/mo just for expanded - that's no HBO, Showtime, not even BBCA. I got rid of that and we're down to $35 for TV (we can't receive any OTA signal here).

But if we cancelled the whole TV part, we would "save" about $75. Does Comcast charge $75 for going over the cap?

Actually, a cap would be about the only thing that might get me to return to AT&T - unless they cap also.
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top