Time to Build the Server - Final Checklist - Page 3 - AVS Forum
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Old 08-12-2014, 06:24 PM
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We already went over a bunch of reasons why the original was suboptimal. Let's not beat a dead horse.

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"Too much is almost enough. Anything in life worth doing is worth overdoing. Moderation is for cowards."
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Old 08-12-2014, 06:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post
Actually in the backblaze study the Hitachi did way better than WD or Seagate (those hitachi are not NAS specific) and included significantly better results than the RED drives which were basically about the same reliability as the Seagate 4TB 5900.15. The 7200.14 did far worse than any of them, yet I've never had a problem.. lol
Well I'm sure you think that your two dozen drives are more indicative of the reliability of the Seagate drives, than the thousands used by Backblaze, because as always, you are utterly incapable of incorporating any information outside of your own experience. And as has been discussed already ad nauseum, the number and duration of the WD Red drive usage makes the comparison dubious at best.

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Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post
Hitachi had by far the lower fails (non NAS specific)
Seagate 5900.14 and WD RED has about the same (one NAS specific, one not)

If you gave this study any weight a logical conclusion would be nas specific drives don't make a big difference.
The logical conclusion is that there is no conclusion to draw. It wasn't a controlled scientific study. It was some rudimentary analysis of a handful of drive models. THere are no useful conclusions to draw based on brand or based on drive type.

The biased conclusion you'll arrive at is likely the one you believed before you ever saw the "study."

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Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post
At the end of the day I don't think it matters. Just buy the drives you like, or you get a good deal on. It's that simple. By the time data even comes out there could be revisions, or different batches or something that makes your results totally different.. plus there is good old fashioned lady luck too. You'll go crazy worry about this stuff, save the anxiety and stop the madness. Buy the drive you like. For me I like the ones that cost less. Others can disagree. That is ok too.
Wow, that sure did take a long time for you to finally agree with what I've been saying from the beginning. (I guess you just wanted to make sure all of your biases were well established first I guess?)

RAID protection is only for failed drives. That's it. It's no replacement for a proper backup.
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Old 08-12-2014, 06:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Aryn Ravenlocke View Post
I very well may be taking you up on this offer. I have a lot of food for thought now, and also as many questions now as I had when I first started down this path a year ago. It's time for me to take a new approach. After I finish this exam that has me on break right now, I'll be updating this thread with a new post. It will include what I need out the server, what I really want out of the server, and lastly my total budget. Hopefully you enlightened individuals will be able to send me down the right path, which may very well be me sending someone else a small grip of money to do this particular project for me.

At least I am learning something out of all this. I suspect I will learn even more if I still build the machine myself. I do worry about the household picking up the tab for my learning by making mistakes though.
You've gotten some good advice in this thread by basically everyone and you've already learned a ton. Rome wasn't built in a day. You'll be fine. I'm not going to directly response to Ajhieb anymore since this is your thread and I don't want to muck it up any further. But if something specific comes up I'll help out, or if you find the need feel free to PM me. You are on the right path.

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Old 08-12-2014, 07:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Aryn Ravenlocke View Post
I very well may be taking you up on this offer. I have a lot of food for thought now, and also as many questions now as I had when I first started down this path a year ago. It's time for me to take a new approach. After I finish this exam that has me on break right now, I'll be updating this thread with a new post. It will include what I need out the server, what I really want out of the server, and lastly my total budget. Hopefully you enlightened individuals will be able to send me down the right path, which may very well be me sending someone else a small grip of money to do this particular project for me.

At least I am learning something out of all this. I suspect I will learn even more if I still build the machine myself. I do worry about the household picking up the tab for my learning by making mistakes though.
I looked at the classifieds and while the CPU is relatively old, that's pretty darned good hardware for $500. With 8 physical cores and 16 threads, I doubt you'd have any problem with transcoding should that issue come up. And really, having kapone build and stress test the base hardware for you should make this project a whole lot easier.

My portable gaming PC/workstation is a Nehalem quad (Lynnfield) and it still runs like a champ.
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Old 08-12-2014, 07:21 PM
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@Aryn Ravenlocke

Having just taken a look at @kapone 's listing in the classified, If it were me, I'd jump at that thing.

That bundle + Norco case (20 or 24 bay) + SAS Expander (or additional SAS controllers) gets you a server that should transcode about anything you'll ever throw at it, enough bandwidth to keep your hard drives as busy as they can be, and plenty of room for future expansion. And depending on what kind of deal you can get on SAS expander or controller, I think you can stay near the bottom end of your budget constraints.

If you don't pull the trigger on it I might be tempted to.

RAID protection is only for failed drives. That's it. It's no replacement for a proper backup.
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Old 08-12-2014, 07:59 PM
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Btw guys, that setup had absolutely no issues transcoding multiple streams simultaneously, WHILE running a couple of other VMs. :-)

I'm going for a radical redesign of my setup with a node based architecture and a backbone SAN, hence the reason for selling the hardware.

The new Intel octacores make for an interesting node based setup...
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Old 08-12-2014, 10:01 PM
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kapone, I'm also interested in your setup and have sent you a PM. Your offer is too good to pass up.
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Old 08-12-2014, 10:07 PM - Thread Starter
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So, let’s try this again shall we?
Hey, everyone! I’m new to this whole building a server instead of a PC thing, and I thought I would come here for some advice on which way to go. As far as being able to write to the NAS/disc farm, I’m not terribly concerned about the write speed, so long as it is not taking many, many hours, or even days for the system to update as I add data. If I understand correctly, unless I want my server to start swearing at me in multiple foreign and dead tongues, this means I need to avoid using any sort of external enclosure hooked up via USB 3.0 or e-SATA. Here’s what I am looking at needing.

The machine will be running:

Windows 8.1 (for simplicity’s sake)
  • FlexRAID (f) (most likely)
  • Media Browser 3 (non-negotiable)
  • PowrChute (because I’m paranoid about the power in this house)

I need a machine that will hold 30 TB of data plus a parity drive from the outset and have room for relatively easy expansion down the road as my catalog is only going to grow. I’m probably going to go with either these 4 TB consumer drives from Seagate or, if I can afford it, I might go ahead and step up a notch and pick up these 4 TB NAS drives from Seagate. I’ll probably do 11 of them initially 1 for parity and 10 for data. Then, when it comes time to expand I will probably pick up 2 more drives, one for a second parity drive, and one for more data.

As a MB3 server, and given the size of my family, I need to make sure that the server can handle transcoding at least 2 1080p streams while also being accessed by direct play from the HTPC hooked up to my primary display. What I would like, is for it to be able to handle 3 transcode processes, just in case. 99% of the time, it won’t come to that, but I like to be prepared.
I’ll be hooking the server up via CAT-6 and my Internet gives me anywhere from 18-28 Mbps upload. I should be fine on bandwidth for streaming.

Originally, the server was going to be going in my walk-in closet in the master bedroom. If I stick with this solution, I will need to consider moving up to some decent sized fans with good control, as I’m fairly certain no one in this house wants a jet engine rumbling along in the closet while we are trying to sleep.
@kapone has quite generously volunteered to toss in his expertise in addition to the parts he is selling in the classifieds. Although I know little about the materials listed, I am rather inclined by the reaction to accept the offer. But I do need to go about selecting all the pieces/parts to be turned into a server.

I’m fairly certain that I want to go with the Norco 4220. That should leave me with plenty of spare bays, and by being hot-swap, it means adding more drives or (if I must) removing drives will be much simpler. I’m not finding much better for anything close to the price-point.

Mfusick recommended a fan-wall for 3 120mm fans to help cool and quiet the unit. That makes sense to me. Then I need three silent-model fans, there are plenty of options for those. No need to splurge and no need for LED lights or anything. Functional and quiet is all I am thinking here.

What else should I be considering? I’m sure Kapone knows what to do, but I just want to get an idea if there is anything obvious I am overlooking that I should be looking to purchase add, ask about, you name it.
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Old 08-12-2014, 10:15 PM
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Originally Posted by ajhieb View Post
If you don't pull the trigger on it I might be tempted to.
Lol, yeah. If I had the space for it, I'd be mighty tempted, too.
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Old 08-12-2014, 10:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aryn Ravenlocke View Post
So, let’s try this again shall we?
Hey, everyone! I’m new to this whole building a server instead of a PC thing, and I thought I would come here for some advice on which way to go
Hey Aryn,

Saw your post this morning and wanted to respond but didn't get around to it

I agree with your current plan over the original

The prebuilt cut some corners that you could easily avoid for the same money spent if you build

Not knowing how you felt about building, I didn't throw up my response. Building or having someone build will give you a better solution for the long run, even if it's too late for kapones suggestion don't fear asking around a little more or getting the parts and building yourself while asking for a little help along the way
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Old 08-12-2014, 10:23 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kapone View Post
Aryn - I don't want this to sound like a shameless plug, but if you look in the classifieds section, I've listed server grade parts that I recently decommissioned (not that there's anything wrong with them, I'm an upgrade junkie/experimenter . If you're interested, I'll order your chassis of choice, and have one of my guys assemble the whole server, stress test it and ship it out to you.

No charge/No profit for the labor. I'd much rather see good parts get used, than sitting around in my warehouse.
I am absolutely not against anyone making a profit on my lack of expertise. The only reason I mentioned price after profit in an earlier post is because that is simply how I established my initial baseline price for the project. Once I had that number, we budgeted accordingly.
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Old 08-12-2014, 10:25 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Dark_Slayer View Post
Hey Aryn,

Saw your post this morning and wanted to respond but didn't get around to it

I agree with your current plan over the original

The prebuilt cut some corners that you could easily avoid for the same money spent if you build

Not knowing how you felt about building, I didn't throw up my response. Building or having someone build will give you a better solution for the long run, even if it's too late for kapones suggestion don't fear asking around a little more or getting the parts and building yourself while asking for a little help along the way
Builds like my initial one are what happens when an English prof tries to build a media server. The skill sets aren't exactly complementary.
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Old 08-13-2014, 04:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Defcon View Post
kapone, I'm also interested in your setup and have sent you a PM. Your offer is too good to pass up.
Defcon, your offer is much appreciated as well, and I'll extend the same offer to you as well, of my guys building you one.

However, I offered Aryn a shot first, and I think it is gentlemanly (does anybody use that word anymore? ) that I let him make a decision first. If he's not interested, you,re more than welcome to have the stuff.
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Old 08-13-2014, 08:24 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by kapone View Post
Defcon, your offer is much appreciated as well, and I'll extend the same offer to you as well, of my guys building you one.

However, I offered Aryn a shot first, and I think it is gentlemanly (does anybody use that word anymore? ) that I let him make a decision first. If he's not interested, you,re more than welcome to have the stuff.
I appreciate that. At this point, I think I had better take you up on the offer. Apparently I still have a ton to figure out before I go attempting this sort of thing on my own. Perhaps, down the road I'll fiddle about on my own when it is time for me to expand beyond 72 TB of data.
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