Best way to watch NFL games on HTPC ? - Page 2 - AVS Forum
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post #31 of 100 Old 08-25-2014, 10:49 AM
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Originally Posted by lovekeiiy View Post
As for out friend who is going to use Game Rewind, I wouldn't wait till Monday. They usually have the games up shortly after they have completed. It takes a few hours to get to feeds with all the commercials and half time removed. I have see the games up within fifteen minutes to watch, but they had the commercials. Trying to get through all Sunday without someone saying something may be next to impossible.
Good to know. I didn't know how quickly they'd have the games up, but from reading reviews, people seem to complain that it takes 8+ hours. I'm on the west coast, so I'd be happy watching them my Sunday night even, if they're ready.
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post #32 of 100 Old 08-25-2014, 12:28 PM - Thread Starter
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Wow. I don't think I've ever read a more selfish response. If the NFL is more important than family I feel sorry for you. There will come a time when you'll look back and regret not going to that "bullchit kids birthday party." Believe me, your kids won't forget it and will appreciate you more for it. I never missed anything in my kids' lives while they were young and I certainly wouldn't hesitate to miss an NFL game to attend something that was important to them.

There will always be another NFL game. Your kids only have one childhood. Missing any part of it would be the biggest mistake you could ever make. Do you really want your kids growing up thinking their Dad was a selfish A-hole or would you rather have them believing that they are more important than a dumbass football game?
My kids are born in May. I'd never miss something for them, but at least at this point it isn't a problem. I'm talking about just friends or friends of friends... etc. Seems like there is always something on every weekend and Sunday right at kick off. I'm not doing it. I'm watching football instead. What is with people planning stuff at the same time as my favorite teams kickoff time? If you want me to be part of something choose a different time or count me out, it's really a simple thing.

You missed the part where I said immediate family I think... My immediate family "gets it" so it's not a problem. I'll bring the kids over to my parents house so grandma and can play with them too and we will watch the game together, just like we always have. It's a family thing, I come from an NFL family. My parents and best friends share this experience, it doesn't compete with them. It's all the other people and things I am talking about. Every Sunday we all get together as a family and enjoy something we all like together, and do family dinner. It's been this way for years, nothing interferes with it. You seem like you are twisting things around where I choose NFL over my family and that just isn't true at all. It's actually opposite, I am choosing my family and NFL over other things. The quality time I spend with my parents, and hopefully kids too now, is valuable to me, and it's this family Sunday time in the fall I am unwilling to give up for any reason.

If at some point my kids grow up and hate football and have something else important that day, I'm sure I'll be there for them. But aside from that, (which isn't for a really long time) I can't think of much else that's worthy for me to make that choice. So far the babies seem to like watching pre-season with me
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post #33 of 100 Old 08-25-2014, 02:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post
What is with people planning stuff at the same time as my favorite teams kickoff time?
Same answer to every other question like that you've posed.

Not everyone shares the same interests as you. Not everyone has the same priorities as you. Not everyone schedules their entire life around a sporting event, not everyone wants an overbuilt HTPC. Not everyone wants to run MadVR or SVP. Not everyone wants to build their own storage server. Not everyone wants to watch the Slutty Housewives of Dade County on their iPad. Not everyone wants to transcode their entire media collection for everyone they know.

People are individuals, and have different wants and desires. Theirs are just as valid as yours. If you want to alienate your friends and family over some football games, that's your right. More power to ya. But just because you have the right to do so, doesn't mean anyone else is obligated to accommodate your wants or desires.
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post #34 of 100 Old 08-25-2014, 02:40 PM
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Originally Posted by SlantNGo View Post
Good to know. I didn't know how quickly they'd have the games up, but from reading reviews, people seem to complain that it takes 8+ hours. I'm on the west coast, so I'd be happy watching them my Sunday night even, if they're ready.
I haven't used Game Rewind in a few years. I used it when it first came out. My recent observations is based on Game Pass, but the major different between the two is live feeds. I've literally fired up a game five minutes after it ended. The feed had commercials, but it was there.

On a side note, the NFL Network archive shows all have the commercials. I've watched shows broadcast over year ago, still had commercials. Really annoying the other day because I watching a show and there was "breaking news" on Bill O'Brien's hiring for the Texans. It wasn't a minute either; more like ten minutes.

On a side note, Game Rewind is a lot cheaper than Game Pass too. And you don't need to spoof your IP, which can be another cost.
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post #35 of 100 Old 08-25-2014, 03:33 PM - Thread Starter
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I like game rewind, I bought the $20 package for preseason. It's fun to watch the games condensed.

Also, for roku the NFL now channel for $1.99 month is wonderful also!
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post #36 of 100 Old 08-25-2014, 10:16 PM
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Originally Posted by SlantNGo View Post
Good to know. I didn't know how quickly they'd have the games up, but from reading reviews, people seem to complain that it takes 8+ hours. I'm on the west coast, so I'd be happy watching them my Sunday night even, if they're ready.
I haven't subscribed to Game Rewind the past 2 years. But the years before that most of the time the games were not available when they were supposed too. Which was supposed to be immediately after Sunday Night Football. Don't know if anything has changed the last 2 years. . .
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post #37 of 100 Old 08-26-2014, 02:08 AM
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....But the years before that most of the time the games were not available when they were supposed too. Which was supposed to be immediately after Sunday Night Football. Don't know if anything has changed the last 2 years. . .
I haven't used Game Rewind in since around 2010. There was one year I had both Game Rewind and Game Pass because I didn't know about Game Pass (or how to be able to use it) till the middle of the season. If memory serves me well, for the most part, games were up with commercials fairly quickly, maybe fifteen minutes. Every once in a while, there was one that would take a day. And back then, the NFL said within eight hours after the game completed. I usually took the eight hours to mean the full game with no commercials.

Thus, I give the caveat that my observations are more based on the Game Pass service. I also extrapolating the service based on my experience from over four years ago, and knowing the differences between the two services.

It interesting to see how the service has evolved. Then I first got it, back in 2009, I think, all the games were full without commercials and half time, and some lengthy nothing parts, such as the five minute pregame babble. The next year, only the condensed. Following year is more like now where there is a choice.

Too bad they don't include the NFL Network archived shows. For the most part, A Football life is a very good documentary series. Since I cut the cable, many years ago, the live NFL Network stream is how I watched them; usually at work live. Last year they started the archived showed on the PC. Now they're on the Android app, so I can watch them at work. This year, they've archived NFL Presents series (30 minute shows), Superbowls (not sure if it's the America's Game series or the highlight shows), the Hall of Fame ceremony (took a few days for it to show up).

Although the Game Pass service is a bit pricey, it's not a half bad deal considering everything it included. The only thing I find bewildering is they don't include audio, ie the radio broadcasts. There is no option if you just want to listen to the game instead of watching it. This is a feature I think most would use on their mobile devices. But it does come up if a game is blacked out because all you get is a game blackout screen with no audio. MLB automatically switches to audio only if you're in a blacked out region. NHL includes radio broadcasts mode too. NFL during the season, does have where you can choose the local team radio broadcast over the TV network audio and it's properly synced, which is a nice option. I say this because I know the NFL offers an audio only subscription service, Audio Pass. It's a little pricey at $25US for the follow your team option and $40US for all games, considering you can probably find an audio feed online from a radio station free.
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post #38 of 100 Old 08-26-2014, 02:19 AM
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Originally Posted by jhoff80 View Post
Ugh, rumors on Twitter are that DirecTV and the NFL are working on a $1.4 billion extension for their current deal into the next decade.

For that much money, it seems unlikely that they'll ever be able to use GamePass in the US for their own streaming service like the other leagues do.
Other than the amount, you know this is going to happen. NFL makes the majority of their money from the various TV contracts. And there is no way the Game Pass service is going to make up anywhere near a billion dollars within the currently unavailable regions.

The only only possibility would be if another entity, say ESPN, came in with a higher offer, that service offered something similar or created a portal to Game Pass, which is what I believe DirectTV does. I've only seen pictures of it, but it looks extremely similar, down to the user interface.

Somehow, DirectTV makes enough money to cover the cost. I don't see CBS, Fox, and other similar networks coming in. And really, ESPN, or another TV provider such as Comcast, Time Warner, could do it, but I don't think they either have large enough install base or the business model to make money with costs like that.
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post #39 of 100 Old 08-26-2014, 05:12 AM
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My kids are born in May. I'd never miss something for them, but at least at this point it isn't a problem. I'm talking about just friends or friends of friends... etc. Seems like there is always something on every weekend and Sunday right at kick off. I'm not doing it. I'm watching football instead. What is with people planning stuff at the same time as my favorite teams kickoff time? If you want me to be part of something choose a different time or count me out, it's really a simple thing.

You missed the part where I said immediate family I think... My immediate family "gets it" so it's not a problem. I'll bring the kids over to my parents house so grandma and can play with them too and we will watch the game together, just like we always have. It's a family thing, I come from an NFL family. My parents and best friends share this experience, it doesn't compete with them. It's all the other people and things I am talking about. Every Sunday we all get together as a family and enjoy something we all like together, and do family dinner. It's been this way for years, nothing interferes with it. You seem like you are twisting things around where I choose NFL over my family and that just isn't true at all. It's actually opposite, I am choosing my family and NFL over other things. The quality time I spend with my parents, and hopefully kids too now, is valuable to me, and it's this family Sunday time in the fall I am unwilling to give up for any reason.

If at some point my kids grow up and hate football and have something else important that day, I'm sure I'll be there for them. But aside from that, (which isn't for a really long time) I can't think of much else that's worthy for me to make that choice. So far the babies seem to like watching pre-season with me
This is all good to know, but at some point there will be a scheduling conflict where you'll have to choose between family and football. I just hope you make the right choice.

FWIW, the NFL Network replays every single game from the previous week. With live score updates during the games, it's nearly impossible not to hear about another game while watching some other matchup so watching a game on another day shouldn't make that much difference, even if you already know the outcome. I like football, but mostly I only watch my home teams (Ravens and Redskins) and teams in their respective divisions. I rarely have any interest in watching a lot of other games unless I have absolutely nothing else to do, which almost never happens.

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post #40 of 100 Old 08-26-2014, 07:13 AM - Thread Starter
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Hey I didn't know your a Ravens fan....

(Edit: prob make wrong choice about football )
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post #41 of 100 Old 08-26-2014, 07:15 AM - Thread Starter
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Also,

Yes it's impossible to miss game and not find out what happens. With updates, news, social media ... No way

Best strategy is to follow what you can, watch on you phone or listen or follow those lame drive charts.. Etc.
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post #42 of 100 Old 08-26-2014, 07:35 AM
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Originally Posted by jhoff80 View Post
Ugh, rumors on Twitter are that DirecTV and the NFL are working on a $1.4 billion extension for their current deal into the next decade.

For that much money, it seems unlikely that they'll ever be able to use GamePass in the US for their own streaming service like the other leagues do.
Yep another crappy D* and NFL lock-in for ST. Good thing there's a lot of easy ways to use VPNs or proxies (Hola Better Internet etc.) to get Gamepass for $129 a year or less. Last year it was free if you hit the right NZ, NL, or Argentine servers but I don't think it's free anywhere now. You can disconnect from the proxy after the Gamepass window is up and running and use your local connectivity for full bandwidth streaming.

They'll figure out one day that people aren't stupid and can easily bypass their restrictions, then maybe we'll see reasonable streaming options here.
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post #43 of 100 Old 08-26-2014, 08:16 AM - Thread Starter
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Yep another crappy D* and NFL lock-in for ST. Good thing there's a lot of easy ways to use VPNs or proxies (Hola Better Internet etc.) to get Gamepass for $129 a year or less. Last year it was free if you hit the right NZ, NL, or Argentine servers but I don't think it's free anywhere now. You can disconnect from the proxy after the Gamepass window is up and running and use your local connectivity for full bandwidth streaming.

They'll figure out one day that people aren't stupid and can easily bypass their restrictions, then maybe we'll see reasonable streaming options here.
I did game pass last year, so I could watch my local teams on the PC and the black outs. I used the VPN too. Since I have triple monitors it worked great! I could watch on a spare monitor and mess around online with fantasy and all that. I don't do this always, but it's fun when you do.

I also bought that Madden game that came with NFL sunday ticket (I think it was like $100?) and then never played the Xbox game but used the password to use NFL sunday ticket

But the problem with game pass is you don't get the apps, like the NFL sunday ticket app for phones and ipad. I'm going to FL to my parents vacation home in November, and using the apps from DirecTV are nice. They work anywhere and on any device, I'll likely go hit a beach bar with my dad (walking distance) and use the ipad on free wifi to watch whatever game I want while watching on their screens too. Wifey and Grandma probably bring kids for lunch, but then hit the beach while dad and I enjoy our Sunday Funday.

If Game Pass had an app for devices it would be a no brainer, but I don't want to carry about my laptop and bounce VPN's around all the time. It's just not convenient. I'm willing to pay when it comes to NFL, if you like something it's worth paying for IMO.

I totally wish I could do game pass and still use the app. Sunday Ticket > Game Pass. When I am away from home, the local black out on Sunday Ticket isn't a problem at all. If I am home, then it's on local TV anyways (which I have too) and for my "home games" those are the ones I watch on the big screen. The secondary games are the ones I use the tablet for.

If for some reason I could not get it on cable, I could always use the PC and VPN and sign into sunday ticket from a remote location and get it that way too.

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post #44 of 100 Old 08-26-2014, 08:58 AM
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No I want ALL THE GAMES... Not just the locals. I'll pay. That's not the problem either. I might end up buying sunday ticket on someone else's directv account and just using the internet side of that myself...
Can anyone verify that it actually works to use the Internet side of DirecTV's Sunday Ticket & Red Zone while they are watching on their TV at the same time? i.e. Can I watch DTV Red Zone on my HTPC stream while my friend is watching a NFL game/Red Zone on his DTV HDTV feed from his box?

I too got the $100 madden deal last year, just for the NFL streaming-which was awesome! Haven't seen anything like it this year... :-( I know last year you could only do 1 stream at a time with DTV online. I think you could only do 1 device at a time too-online, phone or tablet-right?
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post #45 of 100 Old 08-26-2014, 09:11 AM
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The service provided by the NFL is called NFL Game Pass: (nfl.com/gamepass or gamepass.nlf.com). They have different packages you can choose from:

graphic grabbed from UnoTelly.com
I prefer Overplay SmartDNS ($4.95 p/m version) to UnoTelly, and Astrill ($29.95 p/m for 3 months) for a VPN service if necessary.
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post #46 of 100 Old 08-26-2014, 09:21 AM
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Can anyone verify that it actually works to use the Internet side of DirecTV's Sunday Ticket & Red Zone while they are watching on their TV at the same time? i.e. Can I watch DTV Red Zone on my HTPC stream while my friend is watching a NFL game/Red Zone on his DTV HDTV feed from his box?

I too got the $100 madden deal last year, just for the NFL streaming-which was awesome! Haven't seen anything like it this year... :-( I know last year you could only do 1 stream at a time with DTV online. I think you could only do 1 device at a time too-online, phone or tablet-right?
Confirmed, but you can only stream from one device at a time. My mother-in-law uses my D* login to watch Sunday ticket at her place...
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I disagree. Why would I need to give up something I love and it's important to me. Life is about choices, I'm making mine.
I thought your original post was dry humour but I now realise you were serious!
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post #48 of 100 Old 08-26-2014, 09:35 AM
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Confirmed, but you can only stream from one device at a time. My mother-in-law uses my D* login to watch Sunday ticket at her place...
Thanks for the reply! Confirmed meaning that you can indeed watch an online DTV NFL stream in a different location at the same time a friend is using the same account to watch DTV NFL on their HDTV?
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post #49 of 100 Old 08-26-2014, 09:43 AM
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Thanks for the reply! Confirmed meaning that you can indeed watch an online DTV NFL stream in a different location at the same time a friend is using the same account to watch DTV NFL on their HDTV?
I can confirm that last year you were able to watch a DirectTV online NFL stream at the same time that account was watching a game from their satellite box.
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post #50 of 100 Old 08-26-2014, 10:57 AM - Thread Starter
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Can anyone verify that it actually works to use the Internet side of DirecTV's Sunday Ticket & Red Zone while they are watching on their TV at the same time? i.e. Can I watch DTV Red Zone on my HTPC stream while my friend is watching a NFL game/Red Zone on his DTV HDTV feed from his box?

I too got the $100 madden deal last year, just for the NFL streaming-which was awesome! Haven't seen anything like it this year... :-( I know last year you could only do 1 stream at a time with DTV online. I think you could only do 1 device at a time too-online, phone or tablet-right?
Yes you can use the cable or satellite broadcast, + the internet at the same time. I use ipad while watching live on DirectTV another game, I even use a second DirectTV box on a plasma, while the projector plays another game. I hot wired the bedroom TV to another input on the Denon AVR, which feeds both a projector and plasma with dual HDMI outs, and dual/three zone capability.

You can't use more than one web client sign in at a time though...
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Does anyone know if you can do the same with just NFL RedZone-watch an online RZ channel stream while someone else is watching it on their TV? It appears this website offers the option minus DirecTV (if you have DISH, Verizon, etc.). http://nflnonline.nfl.com/ I assume it would be much cheaper too, but curious about the details of how it actually works? Has anyone done this?

If it is possible, how is the streaming quality-similar to DirecTV's stream quality? Is it the exact same feed as RedZone on DirecTV? If so, that might be good enough for me. I actually preferred RZ last year on the DirecTV Madden Online game deal as opposed to switching channels constantly...
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post #52 of 100 Old 08-27-2014, 08:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post
But the problem with game pass is you don't get the apps, like the NFL sunday ticket app for phones and ipad. I'm going to FL to my parents vacation home in November, and using the apps from DirecTV are nice. They work anywhere and on any device, I'll likely go hit a beach bar with my dad (walking distance) and use the ipad on free wifi to watch whatever game I want while watching on their screens too. Wifey and Grandma probably bring kids for lunch, but then hit the beach while dad and I enjoy our Sunday Funday.
If you have Android and a VPN, the apk might be an option...

http://forum.xda-developers.com/show....php?t=2396056

Sounds like you're stuck in Apple world though.
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post #53 of 100 Old 08-27-2014, 10:03 AM - Thread Starter
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I'm stuck in apple world... although I can't say I mind. I didn't like Android.. it's too buggy and there is a crap load of sh!t apps, spam, viruses...etc... it's like the wild wild west for nerds. I like my cell phone to be simple and just work. Both my android devices (HTC and Samsung) were buggy as hell, and I laugh at all my friends with these weird issues where they have to reset their phones and do odd things like some crazy rain dance to make a basic feature work. I'm about to upgrade to the iphone 6, and honestly I'm not really considering anything android or anything else. I've seen the light, even though I still think apple is a yuppie hipster crap company. I'm not a fan of apple all that much, but I need to give credit where credit is due. Their OS is easy to use, it works without fuss, and it's very reliable. They also control what gets out to the phones via the itunes approval process, which removes a lot of the crap you get with Android.


Sure Android has some cool stuff to it too, but at what cost?

I don't have the patience or inclination to fool around with my phone. I know it sounds odd coming from a PC geek and someone knowledgeable and generally good with electronics, but my phone is not the area I want to mess around with or tinker with it. I need it to just be simple and work. Period. Stop.

I'd much prefer to pay for Sunday Ticket and use the excellent Sunday ticket app (that's been approved through itunes store) that is easy to get and free and just works. I can't go messing around, I won't. Even if I can I simply do not want to.

If I need a VPN I'll use the HTPC or Desktop and login to the web browser. It's got bigger screen anyways. Your phone screen is too small to enjoy a game anyways.

I guess it might matter if I did not put life on hold for NFL games and make myself consistently and absolutely available to watch the game- If I was trying to catch a game on the phone while doing some other less important life event it would be different. Luckily I have my priorities in life straightened out...

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post #54 of 100 Old 08-27-2014, 10:50 AM
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If I need a VPN I'll use the HTPC or Desktop and login to the web browser. It's got bigger screen anyways. Your phone screen is too small to enjoy a game anyways.
Someone's never heard of an Android tablet. You complained that Gamepass wasn't portable, I gave you an option. If you want to ignore it and pay out the nose for ST be my guest.
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post #55 of 100 Old 08-27-2014, 11:36 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks! Sorry I did not mean that the way it came out... just I don't want to buy or use an android device. It's cheaper/easier to buy sunday ticket. But I do appreciate the advice and information.

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post #56 of 100 Old 08-28-2014, 11:12 AM - Thread Starter
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Is there a VPN app for ipad ? All you need to do is bounce location right ? Then you get the blackout local game on DirecTV ?

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post #57 of 100 Old 08-28-2014, 02:42 PM
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I'm stuck in apple world... although I can't say I mind. I didn't like Android.. it's too buggy and there is a crap load of sh!t apps, spam, viruses...etc... it's like the wild wild west for nerds. I like my cell phone to be simple and just work. Both my android devices (HTC and Samsung) were buggy as hell, and I laugh at all my friends with these weird issues where they have to reset their phones and do odd things like some crazy rain dance to make a basic feature work. I'm about to upgrade to the iphone 6, and honestly I'm not really considering anything android or anything else. I've seen the light, even though I still think apple is a yuppie hipster crap company. I'm not a fan of apple all that much, but I need to give credit where credit is due. Their OS is easy to use, it works without fuss, and it's very reliable. They also control what gets out to the phones via the itunes approval process, which removes a lot of the crap you get with Android.


Sure Android has some cool stuff to it too, but at what cost?

I don't have the patience or inclination to fool around with my phone. I know it sounds odd coming from a PC geek and someone knowledgeable and generally good with electronics, but my phone is not the area I want to mess around with or tinker with it. I need it to just be simple and work. Period. Stop.

I'd much prefer to pay for Sunday Ticket and use the excellent Sunday ticket app (that's been approved through itunes store) that is easy to get and free and just works. I can't go messing around, I won't. Even if I can I simply do not want to.

If I need a VPN I'll use the HTPC or Desktop and login to the web browser. It's got bigger screen anyways. Your phone screen is too small to enjoy a game anyways.

I guess it might matter if I did not put life on hold for NFL games and make myself consistently and absolutely available to watch the game- If I was trying to catch a game on the phone while doing some other less important life event it would be different. Luckily I have my priorities in life straightened out...
What a load of bull.

The fact that you like an Apple phone with the stuff you post on AVS is just mind boggling honestly.
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post #58 of 100 Old 08-28-2014, 02:51 PM - Thread Starter
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What's wrong with an iphone? Like I said, traditionally I am not an apple guy, and certainly I'm not the stereotypical apple fanboy. I'm reluctantly an apple fan because they actually make a good phone, but I kicked my way to this point kicking and screaming.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/8414/a...-the-iphone-5s

Read that. It's from a reluctant android user and reviewer/fan, who lived with an iphone for a month. I thought it was well written and unbiased.

The hardware is very good, the software is very stable and easy to use. What else do I need to say ? "Just works" is enough for a cell phone. I know android has more little things here and there that some people might appreciate, but honestly I don't find myself even wanting to try the modern/newer android or take the risk on it. My trust factor for the iphone is a lot higher. Even friends and family have these odd things that go wrong with their phones, just crazy things that would make me go nuts with frustrations.

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Last edited by Mfusick; 08-28-2014 at 02:54 PM.
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post #59 of 100 Old 08-28-2014, 03:45 PM
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but the discussion was about watching games on a tablet, and an android tablet was offered up as a solution. What does using an iPhone have to do with watching football on an android tablet?
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post #60 of 100 Old 08-28-2014, 04:13 PM
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What's wrong with an iphone? Like I said, traditionally I am not an apple guy, and certainly I'm not the stereotypical apple fanboy. I'm reluctantly an apple fan because they actually make a good phone, but I kicked my way to this point kicking and screaming.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/8414/a...-the-iphone-5s

Read that. It's from a reluctant android user and reviewer/fan, who lived with an iphone for a month. I thought it was well written and unbiased.

The hardware is very good, the software is very stable and easy to use. What else do I need to say ? "Just works" is enough for a cell phone. I know android has more little things here and there that some people might appreciate, but honestly I don't find myself even wanting to try the modern/newer android or take the risk on it. My trust factor for the iphone is a lot higher. Even friends and family have these odd things that go wrong with their phones, just crazy things that would make me go nuts with frustrations.
? I used an iphone for 2 years. It was just ahead of the mass delivery of LTE devices, and during that time an iphone really was the one of the absolute best 2-3 options. Android was still immature, and so was iOS. Both platforms lacked a number of features they've since added

The swelling growth of android (and really any growth all along) has always sparked the "thoze phonz has malwarz" schtick

The huge irony is that same argument is perpetuated towards windows -- frequently . . . yet I feel you want to defend windows from that argument. Am I correct?

The reality is that using iOS is akin to using just WMC on your HTPC. That's it, no shark007 or lav filters, no mediabrowser, no plugins whatsoever. You can make all the same arguments . . . it just works. There is nothing to troubleshoot. Its stable. Its also tied down, you can't play a whole bunch of formats, you can't use it the way you want unless you happen to want to use it exactly how it was designed. Unhappy with the design? Go fly a kite, this isn't burger king

Coming from someone who doesn't *just use* mediabrowser or wmc, its funny to see you want to *just use* your phone. There is nothing wrong with wanting that, but I personally can't just use my phone. I can't even just use my vehicle. The only things I treat this way in my life are doors, toilets, ovens, etc. I don't tweak appliances. My phone, computers, vehicles, etc are more than appliances. I want them to work exactly how I want them to work, and I will go to great lengths to make that happen if the way I want things doesn't agree with the way they are "designed"

iOS has copied the majority of good android features by now, so many of the things I really like I'll be able to get in both platforms. I might consider an iphone 6, but I'd have to figure out if there is a stable jailbreak and solution for over-riding the carrier check on native wifi tethering (to which there probably isn't so I'll likely stick with android)
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