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Old 08-18-2014, 08:42 AM - Thread Starter
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Handbrake settings for DVD Decomb/Deinterlace?

After ripping and converting hundreds of DVDs to H264 MKV using Handbrake, it's been pointed out to me that my default settings of leaving detelecine, decomb, deinterlace all "off" is wrong because so many DVDs are interlaced. Guess I'd just never noticed before since my bluray rips are 90% of what I watch and most of the DVDs I have watched since converting are the ones that have come out fine.

Anyway, if I wanted to go back and re-rip / re-convert the others that haven't come out so well (ie. w/the visible "jaggies" especially in motion scenes) what would be the best default settings on the Handbrake filters tab? If possible I'd like to have settings that just work for all DVDs going forward. Thanks.
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Old 08-18-2014, 08:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ElJimador View Post
After ripping and converting hundreds of DVDs to H264 MKV using Handbrake, it's been pointed out to me that my default settings of leaving detelecine, decomb, deinterlace all "off" is wrong because so many DVDs are interlaced. Guess I'd just never noticed before since my bluray rips are 90% of what I watch and most of the DVDs I have watched since converting are the ones that have come out fine.

Anyway, if I wanted to go back and re-rip / re-convert the others that haven't come out so well (ie. w/the visible "jaggies" especially in motion scenes) what would be the best default settings on the Handbrake filters tab? If possible I'd like to have settings that just work for all DVDs going forward. Thanks.
I've seen people recommend leaving the default settings for deinterlacing on for HandBrake, but I'm not sure if I'd recommend that without knowing how HandBrake actually deinterlaces. (i've never found an answer, nor have I been interested enough to test it myself) But there is a chance it detects for interlaced content, and disables the filter for progressive scan, but I'm skeptical of that. If it doesn't autodetect, then deinterlacing progressive content is going to cause similar problems (it will likely appear blocky, instead of combed) So you'll be hard pressed to find a one size fits all solution. I'm not positive, but I think decombing is only useful for content that was interlaced, then converted to progressive, without actually deinterlacing.

But the short answer to your question, is when I'm ripping interlaced content with HandBrake, I just use the "Fast" deinterlace setting, and that's it for the filter page. Depending on your content, detelecine bight be advisable too.

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Old 08-18-2014, 09:56 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks ajhieb. If I'm better off setting up a different profile for interlaced vs progressive DVDs then my next question is going to be what is the easiest way to know which is which before I handbrake them? Because I'm noticing that whether I use MPC-HC (w/MadVR + reclock) or VLC, deinterlace will show as off even when I know the content is interlaced. Which might just be a problem w/my player settings I guess however if that's not working it would be great if there's some other foolproof way to tell.
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Old 08-18-2014, 10:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ElJimador View Post
Thanks ajhieb. If I'm better off setting up a different profile for interlaced vs progressive DVDs then my next question is going to be what is the easiest way to know which is which before I handbrake them? Because I'm noticing that whether I use MPC-HC (w/MadVR + reclock) or VLC, deinterlace will show as off even when I know the content is interlaced. Which might just be a problem w/my player settings I guess however if that's not working it would be great if there's some other foolproof way to tell.
I'm not really sure about that. There probably is a way to tell definitively, but I always just scan through the DVD using MPC-HC, and just use the eyeball test. If I see the combing, then I deinterlace, otherwise I just leave it be. From my experience with DVDs (which is by no means all encompassing) typically TV shows are interlaced especially the older ones, and movies are progressive.
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Old 08-18-2014, 11:05 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ajhieb View Post
I'm not really sure about that. There probably is a way to tell definitively, but I always just scan through the DVD using MPC-HC, and just use the eyeball test. If I see the combing, then I deinterlace, otherwise I just leave it be. From my experience with DVDs (which is by no means all encompassing) typically TV shows are interlaced especially the older ones, and movies are progressive.
This is what I always thought too, which is why I had the deinterlace and decomb defaults set to off since 90% of my DVDs are movies. Unfortunately now that I'm going through to test them I'm finding more interlaced movies than I would have thought. I guess I could stick w/the eyeball test but w/so many to go through it would be easier if there was some setting I could check instead.

Anyone else have any input on this?
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Old 08-18-2014, 11:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ElJimador View Post
After ripping and converting hundreds of DVDs to H264 MKV using Handbrake, it's been pointed out to me that my default settings of leaving detelecine, decomb, deinterlace all "off" is wrong because so many DVDs are interlaced. Guess I'd just never noticed before since my bluray rips are 90% of what I watch and most of the DVDs I have watched since converting are the ones that have come out fine.

Anyway, if I wanted to go back and re-rip / re-convert the others that haven't come out so well (ie. w/the visible "jaggies" especially in motion scenes) what would be the best default settings on the Handbrake filters tab? If possible I'd like to have settings that just work for all DVDs going forward. Thanks.
If you are re-encoding DVD, I feel why not deinterlace it, at least for "film". Just select Filter tab > Detelecine: Default and Video tab > Framerate (FPS): 23.976 (Constant Framerate). You will get a pretty good result, i.e. a 23.976fps progressive file that is properly IVTCed.

As for video-based interlaced DVDs (e.g. music concerts, documentaries), I would keep interlacing and only do deinterlacing at playback. To do so let all filters OFF in Filter tab, add the parameter "tff=1" or "bff=1" in Video tab > Extra Options and select Video tab > Framerate (FPS): Same as source. Should you want to do deinterlacing at encoding, you have to choose "Custom" in Filter tab > Deinterlace and add the parameters YM:FD:MM:QP (a set of four parameters, each separated by colons)

where

YM (Yadif mode), 15 is the proper one (resulting in 60fps)
FD (field dominance, parity): -1 is auto, 0 is TFF, 1 is BFF.
MM (mcdeint mode): -1 means disabled, 0 (16x16 macroblock motion compensation), 1 (8x8), 2, 3.
QP (quantization parameter): 1 is default.

For example, try "15:-1:-1:1". Of course don't forget to select Video tab > Framerate (FPS): 59.94 (Constant Framerate). Instead, you could choose Decomb with Custom settings, that requires even 17 parameters: MO:ME:MT:ST:FM:BT:BX:BY:MG:VA:LA: DI:ER:NO:MD:PP:FD.

MO (Deinterlacing Mode): 0=diabled, 1=yadif, 2=Blend (Lowpass-5 Blending Interpolation) etc.
...

I am looking at HandBrake Wiki in Japanese. Where is an English equivalent?
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Last edited by renethx; 08-19-2014 at 01:56 AM.
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Old 08-18-2014, 12:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ElJimador View Post
Thanks ajhieb. If I'm better off setting up a different profile for interlaced vs progressive DVDs then my next question is going to be what is the easiest way to know which is which before I handbrake them? Because I'm noticing that whether I use MPC-HC (w/MadVR + reclock) or VLC, deinterlace will show as off even when I know the content is interlaced. Which might just be a problem w/my player settings I guess however if that's not working it would be great if there's some other foolproof way to tell.
Film DVD is either

- Soft telecined: actually progressive 23.976fps, only considered as interlaced 29.97fps by flags (whence 'Soft'). Most recent NTSC DVD movies (and all PAL DVD movies apart from 24fps vs. 25fps) are of this type. Mediainfo would say Scan Type: Progressive. When encoding, select 23.976fps framerate and you will be fine even if all filters are off.

or

- Hard telecined: interlaced 29.97fps, or 59.94 fields per second. Older NTSC DVD movies are of this type. Scan Type: Interlaced. There are repetitive fields (because originally there are only 2 x 23.976 fields per second) so that they have to be decimated, where Detelcine filter plays a role.

So hard-telecined film DVD is the same as video-based DVD: both are physically interlaced 29.97fps. Right now only GPU drivers can differentiate them and apply the proper deinterlacing method, IVTC or video-mode deinterlacing. Otherwise you have to select either type manually at encoding or video playback (e.g. with madVR, add the flag "deint=film" in the file name of a film).

Quote:
deinterlace will show as off
You forgot to add "tff=1" or "bff=1", without it the encoded file will be always progressive.
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Last edited by renethx; 08-18-2014 at 10:15 PM.
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Old 08-18-2014, 03:15 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks renethx! As always your posts provide the best info on this forum so I'm really happy to have your input on this. Let me test some of these settings tonight and get back to you. Off the top of my head I'm still a bit confused but maybe some testing will help clear it up for me.
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Old 08-18-2014, 03:27 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by renethx View Post
When it comes to video-based interlaced DVDs (e.g. music concerts, documentaries), I would keep interlacing and only do deinterlacing at playback. To do so let all filters off in Filter tab, add the parameter "tff=1" or "bff=1" in Video tab > Extra Options and select Video tab > Framerate (FPS): Same as source. Should you want to do deinterlacing at encoding, you have to choose "Custom" in Filter tab > Deinterlace and add the parameters

YM:FD:MM:QP (four parameters separated by colons)

where

YM (Yadif mode), 15 is the proper one (resulting in 60fps)
FD (field dominance, parity): -1 is auto, 0 is TFF, 1 is BFF.
MM (mcdeint mode): -1 means disabled, 0 (16x16 macroblock motion compensation), 1 (8x8), 2, 3.
QP (quantization parameter): 1 is default.

For example, try "15:-1:-1:1". Of course select Video tab > Framerate (FPS): 59.94 (Constant Framerate).
Just curious renethx, is there a reason you don't recommend one of the standard deinterlacing options in the filters tab (Fast, Slower, BOB, etc.)? I've got no problem using custom or advanced tabs but just wondering on that. Thanks again.
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Old 08-18-2014, 04:20 PM
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If you want to determine whether your video is progressive, telecined, or interlaced, open a raw clip (without any processing) in a tool such as VirtualDub and step through it frame by frame.

If you don't see any combing in scenes with motion, it's progressive. If you don't see any combing but do see repeated frames, it's progressive and needs decimating. If you see some frames with combing and some without combing, it's telecined and needs IVTC. If you see combing in every frame, it's interlaced and needs deinterlacing.

There is no way to know how a source was encoded without inspecting it first. Making assumptions will only lead to mistakes.
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Old 08-18-2014, 09:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ElJimador View Post
Just curious renethx, is there a reason you don't recommend one of the standard deinterlacing options in the filters tab (Fast, Slower, BOB, etc.)? I've got no problem using custom or advanced tabs but just wondering on that. Thanks again.
You will get lower quality deinterlacing with these settings.

Fast: Linear interpolation, the lowest quality.
Slow: YADIF mode=2, 30fps
Slower: YADIF mode=0, 30fps
Bob: YADIF mode=1, 60fps. The best among all the four. OK, this is actually the same as Custom with parameters 15:-1:-1:1.

YADIF (Yet Another DeInterlacing Filter) is one of the best software deinterlacers and integrated in many software decoders/encoders, e.g. LAV Video Decoder. More on Yadif and Understanding Yadif in HandBrake English Wiki.

If you want the best deinterlacing quality anyway, keep interlacing at encoding and leave deinterlacing to GPU hardware deinterlacer at video playback. I just compared deinterlacing quality of:

- HandBrake Deinterlace: Bob
vs.
- Intel GPU deinterlacer

with HQV Benchmark 1.0 NTSC "Jaggies Flag Test". The latter is obviously better (jaggies here and there vs. very little jaggy).

Last edited by renethx; 09-14-2014 at 03:39 AM.
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Old 08-18-2014, 11:01 PM
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I wouldn't necessarily say that leaving the fields alone will yield the best output, as one should at least hope that advanced software specifically designed to restore progressive frames from a telecined source would do a better job than the hardware deinterlacer in your TV or GPU (at least if you're trying to deinterlace to a frame rate that is half of the original field rate, which seems to be the usual goal).
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Old 08-18-2014, 11:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Aleron Ives View Post
I wouldn't necessarily say that leaving the fields alone will yield the best output, as one should at least hope that advanced software specifically designed to restore progressive frames from a telecined source would do a better job than the hardware deinterlacer in your TV or GPU (at least if you're trying to deinterlace to a frame rate that is half of the original field rate, which seems to be the usual goal).

I talked about video-based interlacing contents. Using GPU deinterlacing algorithm such as Vector Adaptive deinterlacing (AMD's term, for example) is the simplest and often the best in quality.

Detelecing (HandBrake's term, usually "inverse telecing") hard-telecined contents is another story. I often find GPU fails in detecting the correct cadence in animes and MadVR's detelecine algorithm is pretty good.

Quote:
trying to deinterlace to a frame rate that is half of the original field rate, which seems to be the usual goal
The usual (and recommended) goal is not half of the original field rate but

- 24fps for a film-based hard-telecined 30fps content (i.e. restore the original film)
- 60fps for a video-based interlaced 30fps (=60 fields/s; remember that each field is shot 1/60 sec later than the previous field, that's how "video" is shot) content. Avoid 30fps (you lose time resolution, resulting in awkward movements).

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Old 08-19-2014, 12:22 AM
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My advice is:

- Soft-telecined movies: Detelecine at encoding. Just set Framerate (FPS) to 23.976. That's it. (Enabling Detelecine: Default is no harmful, of course.)
- Hard-telecined movies: Detelecine at encoding with Detelecine: Default and Framerate (FPS): 23.976. If it does not work (i.e. if you see combing), keep interlacing by letting all filters OFF, setting Framerate (FPS) to "Same as source" and adding the parameter tff=1 or bff=1 (it looks like people often forget it) and detelecine by madVR at playback (*). You could try HandBrake's more complex algorithms (Detelecine: Custom with seven parameters L:R:T:B:SB:MP:FD; see Japanese wiki), but that may not work.
- Video-based interlaced contents: Keep interlacing in the same way as above and deinterlace by GPU's hardware deinterlacer. That is the simplest way and usually assures the best quality. Unlike detelecine, where you could get the perfect original progressive film, deinterlacing is merely a guess work (interpolate each field to get a complete frame by looking at adjacent fields).

The only reason (for me) to try to detelecine/deinterlace all contents at encoding is the compatibility with SVP (that can't distinguish interlaced contents from progressive contents and tries to interpolate frames wrongly).

(*) The reasons for detelecing by madVR instead of GPU are:

- Better detelecine algorithm.
- Assuring the correct refresh rate. If you choose to detelecine by GPU, there is no way for GPU to tell madVR the correct refresh rate, so detelecined 24fps is played back at the default desktop refresh rate, usually 60Hz, resulting in 3:2 pulldown judder.

Last edited by renethx; 08-19-2014 at 11:15 AM.
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Old 08-19-2014, 04:01 AM
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If you want to IVTC a difficult clip, I'd wager that you'd get better results by feeding it into AviSynth directly with the Telecide plugin (using settings customised for your specific clip) than you could get with Handbrake's filters (although Handbrake may have an imported Telecide filter that may or may not retain all of the functionality of the normal AVS plugin).
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Old 08-19-2014, 08:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post
If you want the best deinterlacing quality anyway, keep interlacing at encoding and leave deinterlacing to GPU hardware deinterlacer at video playback. I just compared deinterlacing quality of:

- HandBrake Deinterlace: Bob
vs.
- Intel GPU deinterlacer

with HQV Benchmark 1.0 NTSC "Jaggies Flag Test". The latter is obviously better (jaggies here and there vs. very little jaggy).
Screenshots:

HandBrake Deinterlace: Bob (= YADIF mode 1)



Intel GPU deinterlacer

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