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Old 09-19-2014, 10:36 AM - Thread Starter
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4k UHD Graphic Card

I have upgraded my projector to Sony VPL-VW1100ES 4K projector.

My HTPC :
Motherboard ASUS SABERTOOTH Z87 LGA 1150 Intel Z87 HDMI SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Intel
Graphic Card: MSI R7850, 2GB DDR5, AMD Radeon

AV Receiver : DENON AVR 4520

Questions:
1. Can my current MSI Graphic Card support 4K (3840 x 2160) resolution? I check at Display Resolution the highest resolution is 1920 x 1080 only.
2. Should I replaced my MSI GC to a 4K capable GC?
If yes, what is the best card I can get with the length not longer than 9", for movies/Video watching only, no Games at all.

THANKS.
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Old 09-19-2014, 10:58 AM
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A similar question: Intel NUC and 4k resolution

TLDR: Wait until HDMI 2.0 supporting cards are release late this year, early next.
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Old 09-19-2014, 03:40 PM
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The NVIDIA GTX 970 and 980 feature full HDMI 2.0. Those cards may be a tad bit too expensive for pure HTPC duties though, but there should be a GTX 960 soon, which might be in a better position.
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Old 09-19-2014, 07:33 PM
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7850 should be fine for video (not gaming). May have to use DP, as DVI and HDMI may not have enough bandwidth. It could take some setup work to get it all working right. The 13.12 driver was supposed to work. The new GTX 970 is the only choice that brings new technology (HDMI 2.0).
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Old 09-19-2014, 07:40 PM
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Old 09-20-2014, 12:59 AM - Thread Starter
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It seem the options are not much at this time, may be too early for 4K HTPC?
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Old 09-28-2014, 04:07 PM
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So, with all the different test done so far with these cards. Are there any reason to pass these up for 4k gaming? 2-way sli on the gets 980 gives you 40fps+ and the sli 970 gives you above 30fps+ for the majority of 4k gaming. I would probably do 2 gtx 980s or 3 gtx 970s. Any reasons to not buy for gaming?
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Old 09-29-2014, 02:30 PM
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30 or 40 fps wouldn't satisfy me for gaming, and making your display scale by using a lower resolution is also terrible. In short, wouldn't buy a 4K screen for gaming for at least another GPU generation. By that time, we'll also have DP 1.3 with all the bandwidth we need, without crappy MST.
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Old 09-29-2014, 05:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevcairiel View Post
30 or 40 fps wouldn't satisfy me for gaming, and making your display scale by using a lower resolution is also terrible. In short, wouldn't buy a 4K screen for gaming for at least another GPU generation. By that time, we'll also have DP 1.3 with all the bandwidth we need, without crappy MST.
^This. It does depend on the game you're playing as 30fps is the "playable" number but being locked at 30 kinda sucks if your card can play higher. For modern PC games and gaming I think more people are expecting higher though, esp. on games where you've got fast-paced action going on.

Remember that most console gaming used to be 30fps, pretty much universally...wasn't until 7th gen consoles that faster frame rates became the norm. So 30 fps is not at all terrible, provided there's low input lag on the TV (speaking of that, how are current 4k TVs in that regard?). 60fps does provide a better gaming experience though.

There aren't really any single cards that can get near to 60fps @ 4K in modern games though. As someone pointed out above even in SLi you're struggling getting there in some games! :O If you've got V-Sync on, you're down to 30fps anyway. Of course this is where G-Sync comes in. BUT... How many TV/projectors support G-Sync? LOL.


I don't see the need for 4K yet either because:
-For video there's not much content; and, it's really only necessary if you have a 70"+ screen IMO.
-For gaming you need a very fast card or SLi/Crossfire, but unless your monitor/TV/projector supports DisplayPort you're going to need HDMI 2.0. Also...what I said about G-Sync. So that leaves your only real option as the GTX 970 or GTX 980. $400+ cards right there. But again for CE gear, I don't think anything supports G-Sync yet (?).
-As mentioned, not gaming in native res. is a bad idea.


Net result? 4K gaming is not really ready for primetime...Unless you have a lot of $$$ to spend. Best to wait a few years.


OP of course does not mean for gaming. For video, the 7850 will output that high for HDMI but at a max of 30Hz. However the 7850 is not going to be able to do HW decode of 4K content either, so hopefully OP has a fast CPU. I'd stick with the 7850, wait about 6-8 months when cards start having HDMI 2.0 std. along with 4K HW decoding capabilities, then upgrade.
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Old 10-26-2014, 09:23 PM - Thread Starter
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It is more than one month ago since I posted this Thread.
Now is near year-end shopping season.

Is there any NEW development regarding 4K Capable Graphic Card?

Latest technology and more reasonable price, may be?
My usage is mainly for 4K-Video, not Gaming.
Low profile possible.
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Old 10-26-2014, 09:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iwanrs View Post
It is more than one month ago since I posted this Thread.
Now is near year-end shopping season.

Is there any NEW development regarding 4K Capable Graphic Card?

Latest technology and more reasonable price, may be?
My usage is mainly for 4K-Video, not Gaming.
Low profile possible.
So basically you are looking at lower end card, around $150 that can play a true 4K signal to a 4K TV? Short answer: NO. Nothing from Nvidia on the 950/960 cards yet. Rumor is next year, AMD Febuary launch, Real 16/20nm Nvidia Maxwell late March. Could be a 950/960 slipped in there before Xmas, but I doubt it as nothing has leaked at all.

Cool Beans.
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Old 10-26-2014, 10:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iwanrs View Post
It is more than one month ago since I posted this Thread.
Now is near year-end shopping season.

Is there any NEW development regarding 4K Capable Graphic Card?

Latest technology and more reasonable price, may be?
My usage is mainly for 4K-Video, not Gaming.
Low profile possible.
The closest you will get is the GTX 970, which is coming next month in a mini-ITX design from Gigabyte. That will retail for around $340. However, it is likely that we won't see VP9 and proper HDMI 2.0 connectivity until the next generation of GPU, so there isn't any reason to buy anything right now.
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Old 10-27-2014, 12:04 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by LexInVA View Post
The closest you will get is the GTX 970, which is coming next month in a mini-ITX design from Gigabyte. That will retail for around $340. However, it is likely that we won't see VP9 and proper HDMI 2.0 connectivity until the next generation of GPU, so there isn't any reason to buy anything right now.
Too bad, no 4K Video for Christmas & New Year.
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Old 10-27-2014, 12:52 AM
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Originally Posted by LexInVA View Post
However, it is likely that we won't see VP9 and proper HDMI 2.0 connectivity until the next generation of GPU, so there isn't any reason to buy anything right now.
The 900 series has proper HDMI 2.0 support.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ES_Revenge View Post
Remember that most console gaming used to be 30fps, pretty much universally...wasn't until 7th gen consoles that faster frame rates became the norm. So 30 fps is not at all terrible, provided there's low input lag on the TV (speaking of that, how are current 4k TVs in that regard?)
No, console gaming used to be 60 FPS, and is now 20-30 FPS for the majority of titles.
30 FPS is terrible for gaming, especially if you are playing PC games with a mouse.
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Old 10-27-2014, 06:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chronoptimist View Post
The 900 series has proper HDMI 2.0 support.
No, it doesn't seem to, despite Nvidia's claims. HDMI 2.0 connectivity is all over the place with the 900-series according to what people are experiencing with their UHDTV sets and there are signs that something isn't right. Some cards work perfectly and others won't work at all with the latest HDMI 2.0 UHDTVs, even if they are of the same GPU and basic design, but from a different vendor. Nvidia also flip-flopped their specs pages, originally posting information that implied HDMI 1.4 and then changed the pages to say HDMI 2.0. a bit after the cards went wide because I and many others called them out on the contradictory information we had been given by their advertising and presentations.
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Old 10-28-2014, 12:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chronoptimist View Post
The 900 series has proper HDMI 2.0 support.

No, console gaming used to be 60 FPS, and is now 20-30 FPS for the majority of titles.
30 FPS is terrible for gaming, especially if you are playing PC games with a mouse.
Huh? What console games "used to be" 60FPS? Old skool consoles certainly aren't. NTSC was essentially 30Hz so definitely no SD consoles were. Well I mean they could have ran faster but there would be no point.

With newer consoles, I remember when F-Zero GX on Game Cube came out, 60FPS was a huge thing and it was one of the only games that could do it on GC (and one of the few for all consoles at the time). However in the case of F-Zero GX you had to have both the rare GC component cable, and you had to power your GC on in a special way in order to get progressive scan to turn on.

There were a limited number that could do it on Dreamcast, PS2, etc... On google (a quick search), found a thread where people try to list games that were 60fps in 6th gen consoles:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=759659

Not exactly a huge number of games, is it? Not many PS3 games can do it either... Here's another thread where people list games that are 60fps for that console:
http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/92775...ion-3/69574012
Again just a quick search but the answers are not too forthcoming...because 60fps console gaming is not all that common and never has been.

I'm not sure how 30fps is "terrible for gaming" given the vast majority of console gaming throughout history has been well below 60fps. That would be saying that almost all videogames prior to current-day, high-end PC gaming have been "terrible" I'm not going to even bother spelling out what kind of absolute hogwash that statement is.

As for gaming with a mouse I never understood that and will never do it. I have no idea how that is "gaming" yet I know that's how many people "game" on a PC for FPS type games so whatever.

Also every major PC publication out there that tests videocard and CPU gaming performance...Tom's Hardware, Anandtech, Xbitlabs, Hardware Secrets,...and the list goes on, considers 30fps as an "acceptable" gaming framerate. They only resort to saying a given game/resolution/settings are "unplayable" on given hardware when it drops below 30fps. Yes they may like to see 60fps+ but they do not state things are unplayable or "terrible" (lol terrible ) below that.

60fps is certainly desireable but it's definitely not required and definitely doesn't mean any games not reaching such a framerate are "terrible".

Last edited by ES_Revenge; 10-28-2014 at 12:19 PM.
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Old 10-28-2014, 04:31 PM
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I was just researching UHD GPU options after pulling my Windows Machine out of storage to replace my Mac Pro tower and quickly reached the conclusion that UHD is not properly supported in the newely released Nvidia hardware and we will have to wait until the next generation. H.265 apparently will not be hardware accelerated and HDMI 2.0 is questionable........
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Old 10-28-2014, 05:23 PM
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Nvidia's Pascal should have VP9 AND HEVC in the PureVideo ASIC as well as proper HDMI 2.0 support in the GPU as it will be commonplace in the 2016 monitors and UHDTVs.
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Old 10-28-2014, 07:21 PM
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30 fps in a game is horrible. You would be shot in an online match and you would not even know it for a second. If you can't hit at least 40 it's just no fun and 50 or above is getting better.

Rotting my brain one movie at a time!

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Old 10-28-2014, 08:48 PM
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This is an old article but it provides a good explanation of the physiology behind human vision when it comes to different frame rates:

http://www.joz3d.net/html/fps.html

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Old 12-21-2014, 06:14 PM - Thread Starter
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Is there any NEW development regarding 4k/2160p capable Graphic Cards for HTPC (movies not games) ?
New models, cheaper price may be ?

MERRY CHRISTMAS.
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Old 12-21-2014, 06:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iwanrs View Post
Is there any NEW development regarding 4k/2160p capable Graphic Cards for HTPC (movies not games) ?
New models, cheaper price may be ?

MERRY CHRISTMAS.

Still nothing unless you want to blow big money on one of the high end cards...


I picked up (very affordable based on what I read) a MSI GTX750ti SC 2gb card what I call a interim card, according to what I read, it will output 2160p @ 60fps, video via HDMI 1.4a, should be good for video but, if you want to play high end games plan to break the bank a little.


Nothing yet affordable if you want HDMI 2.0 and HDCP 2.2 (not sure any cards have HDCP 2.2).. I'm kind of waiting too..


and Merry Christmas to you as well..

-Dave

MCSE 2003
Windows Media Center specialist

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Old 12-22-2014, 03:59 AM
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Originally Posted by DavidinCT View Post
I picked up (very affordable based on what I read) a MSI GTX750ti SC 2gb card what I call a interim card, according to what I read, it will output 2160p @ 60fps, video via HDMI 1.4a, should be good for video but, if you want to play high end games plan to break the bank a little.
Technically I think the interim nVidia solution is taking advantage of a new mode added with HDMI 2.0 that allows 4:2:0 chroma (HDMI 1.4a and below only supported 4:2:2 and 4:4:4) to be used. This allows 2160/60p to be carried within the bandwidth of HDMI 1.4a - so nVidia have effectively added one HDMI 2.0 mode to an HDMI 1.4a card.
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Old 12-22-2014, 04:36 AM
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And that would extend to the GTX 970 and GTX 980 cards too, since they are of the same family?
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Old 12-22-2014, 07:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sneals2000 View Post
Technically I think the interim nVidia solution is taking advantage of a new mode added with HDMI 2.0 that allows 4:2:0 chroma (HDMI 1.4a and below only supported 4:2:2 and 4:4:4) to be used. This allows 2160/60p to be carried within the bandwidth of HDMI 1.4a - so nVidia have effectively added one HDMI 2.0 mode to an HDMI 1.4a card.

Yea, I know. I picked this up for really a temp card (paid $90 for it) so when we get "affordable" HDMI 2.0 with HDCP 2.2 or higher cards, then I will upgrade.


As time goes in 2015, I think month by month we will see more content available for 4K, as more and more sets are selling. I really think, till we get a 4K Blu-ray format, the PC will be about my ONLY source for 4K content, streaming or video files. Rumors of Dish, Directv and Comcast doing testing but, seeing that in homes, that is a whole different story.

-Dave

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Old 04-12-2015, 06:34 AM - Thread Starter
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Yea, I know. I picked this up for really a temp card (paid $90 for it) so when we get "affordable" HDMI 2.0 with HDCP 2.2 or higher cards, then I will upgrade.


As time goes in 2015, I think month by month we will see more content available for 4K, as more and more sets are selling. I really think, till we get a 4K Blu-ray format, the PC will be about my ONLY source for 4K content, streaming or video files. Rumors of Dish, Directv and Comcast doing testing but, seeing that in homes, that is a whole different story.
Any new affordable 4K/2160p Graphic Card?
For movies/video watching only, no gaming at all.
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Old 04-13-2015, 04:29 AM
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Refer to this article: http://www.anandtech.com/show/9152/f...-hdcp-and-hevc

You're welcome
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Old 04-16-2015, 07:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iwanrs View Post
Any new affordable 4K/2160p Graphic Card?
For movies/video watching only, no gaming at all.

Like I said, FOR NOW, I am running a GTX750ti SC 2gb card, I am running WMC @ 2160p @60hz. This is on my dedicated WMC machine.


Windows Media Center runs great @ 2160p, native 4K content (downloaded demos, or things I have gotten on other places) look as good as if I put them on a USB drive and plugged into the TV.


This is ONLY used for TV, video and movie watching, and the results are impressive at least me on my LG 65UB9500

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