AVS Forum banner

32TB Hard Drives and bigger

2K views 47 replies 13 participants last post by  ajhieb 
#1 ·
I am looking for 32TB or bigger capacity Hard Drive Array of 8, 10 or 12 bays for my movies and music storage.
Stand alone or NAS. Raid capable prefered.

I am considering ARECA or Synology.

Any suggestion for reliable HDD Array with reasonable price? :kiss:
 
#7 ·
My vote also goes to building your own.




If you only needed maybe 4 or less one of those options are not bad but why not have the room to grow when you need to and those Synology are not cheap. Norco 4224 is great but you can get away with less they have cheaper cases from them in the hotswap but for what you get in the 4224 well worth it.

Here some other options I just picked up the Rosewill RSV-L4500 LINKY for the price this is not bad you can hold 15 HDDs. Wanted another Norco 4224 but this will do fine.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811219020&cm_re=norco-_-11-219-020-_-Product
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811219030&cm_re=norco-_-11-219-030-_-Product
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...7154&cm_re=rosewill_4u-_-11-147-154-_-Product
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...7155&cm_re=rosewill_4u-_-11-147-155-_-Product
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...7165&cm_re=rosewill_4u-_-11-147-165-_-Product

Or Tower cases

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811147176
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811517006
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811129201

Should look into Flexraid as well I'm not sure how unRaid compares to Flex but i thought unRaid only allows you to have 1 parity drive where in Flex you can have 2 and Flex also lets you have HDDs with data already on the drive and still be able to create your setup pretty sure Unraid everything has to be Formatted (if your starting out new then this really doesn't matter , but can you expand your setup with out formatting in Flex you can???). So if you setup a dual parity you can loose 2 HDDs and still be fine. If you loose more than 2 then you just loose the Data on the failed drives and be able to access the Data on the other drives in any PC. Say you loose both your Parity drives you didn't loose anything you can get on reading/writing to them just get them replaced and rebuild.


You wouldn't even need a powerful PC I would just reuse an old PC if you have it laying around. Depending on how many SATA ports on your MB you might not even need any SAS PCIe cards. I just picked up 4 IBM M1115s one was for a friend $76 each on ebay wasn't hard to Flash them. Just when you go buy your HDDs I would buy maybe in 2s or 4s at most from a few places if your sticking with 1 type of HDD. Usually when 1 goes others might follow and if you buy them all at the same time you never know I rather not take the chance. I've bought 1 group of HDDs in a set of 4 and go figure those where the ones that all died on me every since I buy in 2s from different places or just wait a few awhile and they should have newer stock.
 
#10 ·
It's hard to give "reasonable price" advice for these huge arrays. 32TB of movies can represent a thousand blurays, or a year of torrenting, or many years' worth of tivo archives. From a data storage perspective, a sensible solution for one situation would be not be appropriate for the other. The cost- and time-to-acquire in these cases can vary by orders of magnitude. It's like asking, "what's a reasonable price for 32 acres of land?" The question can't be answered without more information.

What are your soft & hard budget limits?
How much time are you willing to spend on this?
How fast are your storage needs growing?
What's your pc-building experience?
Do you have space constraints or noise constraints?
 
#12 · (Edited)
That budget gives you options. At the top end of your range, you get this:

1x Synology 1813+ ($978)
8x 6TB Western Digital Red WD60EFRX ($294)
1x CyberPower CP1000PFCLCD ($134)
Shipping ($26)
= $3490

That's 36TB with 2-disk redundancy and UPS. You get every bell and whistle except real-time transcoding, and you can unbox, assemble, and configure it in a single evening. Personally, I find my Synology units to be some of the best hardware purchases I've made in 20 years of pc building.
 
#15 ·
Good point, I didn't look closely enough - thought it only supported one expansion unit. In any event, I still think it is worth developing a 2-3 year plan and making your purchases now as phase 1 of that plan. If the DS1813+ and a couple of DX513 expansion units will supply all the space you need for the next few years then you should be good to go.
 
#17 · (Edited)
I would strongly recommend the Synology NAS Devices, they are very reliable, very fast and expandable. If the DS1813+ isn't big enough then take a look at the DS2413+ which can give you 24 bays with the expansion unit.

Of course this is personal opinion and subjective but if you want something that is just going to work, has great support go with something that is proven over taking chances with something that you put together that could have issues and require a lot of tweaking.

I've built plenty of Server Level Systems as well as RAID Systems over the years and recently replaced one of them with a Synology DS1813+ and I love it, it has been rock solid since day one and its been a little over a year.

I just saw the new Synology DS3612xs which has 12 drive bays but can accept two 12 bay expansion units for a total of 36 drives and supports 10G Ethernet (with an add on card).
 
#18 ·
I'm going go with the Synology recommendations here. I have a PowerEdge server that I use because I got it from a company I used to work for (I'm IT), but my buddy bought a Synology and has been running it for about two years now trouble free. If\when my server eats it (as in I can't get reasonably priced replacement parts for whatever happens to break), Synology is where I am going.
 
#19 ·
I'll play devils advocate. For the cost of a synology you can build a much nicer media server, including powerful i5/i7 instead of the weak sauce CPU in the Synology . Then you can run stuff like MB server and Plex server directly on your media server (as you should) and support transcoding and away from home viewing or server sharing with friends. You'll also be able to afford more drives, nicer chassis with more hot swap bays, more/faster ram etc...

Sure you lose the simplicity, and you have to build it. But if you can do that, you'll get better for less $. It's about priorities. If your priorities are getting the best media server at the best value, you'll do better to DIY.
 
#21 ·
Probably Assassin guides are the simplest: http://assassinhtpcblog.com/server-hardwarebios/

If you decide to go FLEXRAID and with a server chassis you can check out my server build thread, a bunch of others have followed suite. The basic blueprint is rather easy

Norco 4220 (20 hot swap bays)
Consumer mobo (think Asrock Z97 for $100)
Consumer CPU (any LGA1150 socket chip)
8GB ram
650 watt PSU (normal $50)
3TB or 4TB high value hard drives (any will work)

Flashed IBM or DELL Sata cards (flashed to HBA ) to populate all bays ($60-100)

You are basically $1000-$2000 in hardware depending on how crazy you want to get. You could of coarse do it cheaper, or more expensive but that is the sweet spot for performance and value IMO.

Windows Server or normal Windows +Flexraid as the OS solution, and you can run any other software you want with it, manage it remotely (headless) etc.
 
#25 · (Edited)
DIY means DIY. You'd do it yourself if it broke. No different than a car, or lawn mower, or doing some construction on your home. Some do it, some hire out. Nothing is beyond learning, so the real question is do you want to DIY or not ?

I tend to find when I DIY something, I like the outcome and I feel proud of the accomplishment. Others might not. For a less affluent person DIY probably has a higher value too, (I'm guessing).

For some to save $1000+ it's worth it to DIY. For other's it might not be worth it. You'll see this same argument in other forums like the DIY audio forum, or the home theater construction forum etc... Same argument getting your car oil changed, rotating tires, or hire someone mow your lawn, etc... Anyone can probably do it, but some would rather pay someone else to do it for them. Not exactly the same, but you get the point I hope. Not going to be a universal answer.

I listed the cost above for my server. I think it's pretty close to reality. $3000 with drives. $1000 before software and drives. The main difference is you can't buy a Synology that will run windows applications, and have the power of an i7 CPU- even if you spend a few thousand more. So in some ways there is a choice there too. Synology is just storage solution, it's not a proper media server. A proper DIY media server will be both.

And - Drives will be a major cost either way. Especially if you run 20+ of them like me. Cutting the number of drives will shave off costs, I started with 6. It was nice to add some over time here and there as I needed, which is another bonus for the DIY FLEXRAID option IMO.

You can spend some now, and some more later when you need it. Drop half the drives or more, and one of the HBA cards, (even both?) you save like $1000 off my total price which is where I started. Easier to bite off some in chunks than all at once I think. It was for me anyways. I would have really struggled dropping $3000 all at once.
 
#27 ·
...and that's point I was getting at. Sure, pretty much anybody can screw a motherboard into server chassis, and pop in some hard drives in the hot-swap bays, but plenty of people find the idea of having to troubleshoot their homemade setup rather daunting. Very rarely are things things just plug'n'play. They usually require a fair amount of tinkering, often some experimentation, and usually a great deal of learning (as your 3800 post FlexRAID build thread will attest)

And I'm still curious what the build cost for a new system would be with warrantied parts, to compare to the Synology. (Last time I checked, those IBM/Dell/LSI cards that everyone is using in their home builds are neither new, nor warrantied)

But I'm not sure where the 1000+ savings comes in. If a $1,000 Synology 1813+ does everything the OP needs how is a $1000+ home server going to save him $1000?
 
#32 · (Edited)
The power saving thing always gets me and makes me chuckle, and if I am being honest get a little upset.

I know it's cool to hug trees and go green these days but does anyone really do the math?

At national avg electric prices per kWh it's not a lot of money difference between a hungry i7 full blown DIY server, and a Synology. Certainly not the hundred or even thousands of dollars difference in product costs. I could run 5 of them with the cost difference, paying for the electricity for all 5 to run for a decade.

Sometimes things just are what they are. If you want AC you'll have to buy an AC system and run it, yes it will use electricity but it's better than sweating like a pig right? If you want to keep your food frozen or cold and not spoil you'll need a refrigerator for that, and yes it will use electricity. If you want to take a hot shower, you'll need a water heater. It will consume electricity. If you want to watch TV, you'll need a TV it will consume electricity. A 20" display probably will take a lot less than a 65" display, but that does not stop too many from going bigger right? There is so many other areas in your home that use electricity, I feel like a media server is much the same. You either want it or you don't, and if you want it then the electricity won't stop you. It's a really small amount of money.

We are talking about hundreds or thousands of dollars to buy some of these things, and electricity costs are much smaller. I'd keep my TV off, or take a quicker shower, before I'd give up my media server. I like it that much. Sometimes you just pay to play. It's how life works. The lower cost of the Synology is irrelevant IMO. I'd be more concerned with why it's using less electricity, and that's because it's weak sauce. The weakness of the CPU is more a problem than the low power consumption is a benefit IMO.

How many times more powerful is a 4790K CPU for $279 compared to a Synology unit costing $3000-$5000 ?

Anyone want to answer that^ You'll win a cookie.
 
#33 ·
About a year ago a spent several months researching and purchasing equipment for a NAS build and loaded it with Synology's operating system(which I would gladly pay for if they would make it available for purchase). Since they do not make it available for purchase, I used XPEnology forums to get Synology OS on my NAS Box.

The only reason I did not purchase a Synology product was because none of their products came with a processor that was capable of transcoding bluray MKV's and I felt this was a must for me, so I ended up with a Core i5 Haswell, 8GB RAM, Lian Li Case, fanless PSU, and 6+1 3TB Western Digital Red HDD's, OS is ran in RAM which is loaded from a USB Stick on boot.

Everything went relatively smooth due to Synology's software and I have never had a single problem with it....The only thing that absolutely worries me is that everything I did to get everything working initially could have problems.

Eventually, if Synology builds a NAS with a proper processor, I will migrate everything over to a 100% Synoloy supported box.

If transcoding your shows/movies is not important to you, I would certainly go with a off-the-shelf Synology unit, the software is top notch.
 
#34 ·
Eventually, if Synology builds a NAS with a proper processor, I will migrate everything over to a 100% Synoloy supported box.

If transcoding your shows/movies is not important to you, I would certainly go with a off-the-shelf Synology unit, the software is top notch.
This remark is pretty much the entire conversation in a nutshell. The folks at Synology could all but corner the market if they would just put a how-power processor into their machines, or at least make that an upgrade option.
 
#38 ·
If you are looking for processing power what about QNap? I don't have any personal experience with them but they are powered by Intel i Series Processors and made with video in mind. People usually say they are pricey but if they will handle the transcoding for your it might be worth it?
 
#40 ·
QNaps have come way down in price, but still represent the high-end premium of the home media NAS. However they do have a number of advantages over the Synology that are similar to the DIY path. IT's all about comfort levels and monetary resources. If one wants an off the shelf solution, Synology is the best bang for the buck. QNap is the beefier solution for those willing to pay a premium (V6 Mustang versus a Shelby Cobra).
 
#41 ·
My point of view is that the majority of people are better off buying a commercial NAS over DIY. Then again, the majority of people will be fine with a 4 bay NAS to backup their photos, etc. I evaluate commercial NAS vs. DIY on the "dinner" or "beer" scale - if that person were a friend who lives in my town, how often am I going to get invited over for dinner or a beer... to fix their DIY setup? 60%? 70%? of people are better off with a commercial NAS despite the inherent limitations of the solution because they really aren't up to the job of maintaining a DIY setup.

The enthusiast market is a different animal than the mainstream - but there are two enthusiast markets we're talking about. The PC enthusiast market is obviously well prepared to build their own. I think the home media enthusiast (and I regard the OP as such, at 32TB for the first year) is well advised to become at least proficient with PC building so that they can save a fair amount of money (covered well above by other posters) and build solutions that have more horsepower than current commercial solutions. But in the final analysis the dinner/beer criteria still applies. If you aren't comfortable mucking around with a PC/server then by all means go with an appropriately sized Synology - it will cost more but they make nice solutions.
 
#42 ·
I'll include my vote in the DIY camp.

One thing to consider is that while a NAS unit might be able to handle what you want to do with it today, if your needs change tomorrow, you are severely limited.

I went the DIY route with my server, and following assassin's guides, went with a Pentium processor.

When my needs soon changed to allow for transcoding BR's to multiple devices, all I had to do was drop in a new i5. All my other hardware stayed the same.

I think the biggest learning curve was with FlexRAID and it's little nuances associated with it.
However, there's plenty of help in these forums to overcome those obstacles.
 
#43 ·
Same story as me. I got a lot of help, now I try to pay it forward if I can. That is what this forum is for.

I posted earlier about the unseen and unmeasured value of DIY, and I think that is a factor. I'd never be as strong or have a good experience with HTPC or media servers if I did not DIY. I'm grateful very much for my leanings and experiences.

At the end of the day each individual is either a DIY or not. Hard to tell someone else what they are. Best we can do is share our experiences and hopefully help them decide for themselves.
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top