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does on-board audio really matter? and other build advice

2K views 45 replies 12 participants last post by  fierce_gt 
#1 ·
I'm very seriously considering building a new HTPC from scratch. I've been slowly upgraded an old desktop pc I bought almost a decade ago, but I'm thinking it may be time to build a dedicated HTPC, and use the desktop as more of a workstation.


but as I'm searching through parts, and trying to price things out, there's a few things I'm unsure about.


the first is on-board audio. my plan is to get a mobo with good enough on-board graphics and hdmi output so I don't need to use a video card anymore. the only other things I'm looking at when it comes to mobo selection is the number of sata connections, as I'm hoping to stuff the case to the tits with HDD's so I don't need to have a rack of 8 externals anymore. seems like 6 sata connections is about the most I can get before jumping way up in price. but the other thing I've noticed is the difference in audio. most have realtek 892, a couple, slightly more expensive(ok, roughly double the price, but still only a 70-80dollar premium) have realtek 1150. so my question is, does this matter? does the onboard audio even come into play if I'm sending it over hdmi (hopefully untouched) to my receiver?


for what's it's worth, here's what I'm thinking for the rest of the build:
CPU- intel i3. was looking at the 4130T for it's lower power demand, but still pretty unsure about this as my local supplier doesn't carry it
mobo- Z97(if audio matters) http://www.memoryexpress.com/Products/MX52123 or maybe an H87(if audio doesn't matter) http://www.memoryexpress.com/Products/MX46154
ram- I'm going to reuse the 3gb I removed when I upgraded the current PC
HDD- I may swap in the ssd from the current pc, or pick up another small/cheap one for the OS. either way i'll load it up with the HDD's I have now for media storage
power supply- I'm considering the corsair RM650. it's way overkill, but it's the smallest one of that series, and I'm intrigued by the 'zero noise' aspect to it. http://www.memoryexpress.com/Products/MX48186 plus, I don't really know if I'm eventually going to have like 6-8 HDD's in the case, maybe I will need a larger power supply?
case- is likely going to be the Silverstone GD08 or similar(I like the look of this one better: http://www.memoryexpress.com/Products/MX47999)


this should give me enough to put together a dedicated HTPC and maintain my current desktop to use for everything else. basically I want to remove my daily tasks from the htpc, as I believe this will make it more stable, and reliable for playing my media. there's nothing wrong with the current performance of my desktop, but the form factor, and general execution is a bit clumsy.


I would like to keep things generally cheap, quiet, and efficient as much as possible. but I'm not super concerned about it being tiny. I'd rather it provided me room to grow. I'm the kind of person that would normally rather buy parts and do upgrades than buy a whole new system. as evidenced by my current desktop that I bought in 2006, and have replaced or added ram, hdd's, video card, dvd drive, and power supply.


I've been looking for about a week trying to find advice on my own, but it appears most builds are either tiny, super efficient concepts with little to no onboard storage, or super high end gaming/media rigs. I'm looking more for something is simple and efficient, but trades off being small for having huge amounts of storage space. I'm currently running 1SSD and 9HDD's, 7 of which are external, so I'd really like to either clean that up, or at the very least give myself room to add internal HDD's in the future instead of more external drives. I'm running out of plugs, and already using 2 usb hubs. also, I'm not too interested in the whole server/media box route. I primarily only watch in one room, and I'm current unable to get anything 1080p to 'stream' to anything else in my house(other pcs, smart TV's, bluray player, or appletv running xbmc). I haven't been able to isolate any issues, it just doesn't work reliably and I don't want run cat cable all over the house to make it work.


thanks in advance for any help, or reality checks you can provide
 
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#3 ·
thank you, that saves me a lot of headaches, and likely money.


so, am I correct in thinking that pretty much all the mobo's on the market today are 'good enough' for HTPC use. and I should be more concerned with the form factor, and connections?


I'm basically thinking the cheapest mobo with sufficient sata connections, hdmi, and support for the i3 is the way to go(assuming it's from a reputable brand as well)
 
#5 ·
Silverstone GD08 = "thumbs up"........currently using it myself. Plenty of room to hold hard drives. If your motherboard only has 6 sata ports, you can add more with a PCI card - there are some that can give you 4 more for a reasonable price.


http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16816124064


Toys
 
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#20 ·
Silverstone GD08 = "thumbs up"........currently using it myself. Plenty of room to hold hard drives.
I have a GD07 (same interior as the GD08). I hate working inside it. The drive cage design is horrible. It has so many inaccessible screws, you need to do a near-total disassembly of the whole computer just to add a single hard drive.

fierce_gt, I think you mentioned somewhere that you tend to buy drives incrementally. If that's your future plan, I recommend against the GD07/GD08.
 
#7 · (Edited)
ok, looking for some more advice. I think I've got a bit of a handle on the mobo/cpu/etc, but I'm not seeing a case I really like yet.


my plans for parts so far:
CPU: intel i3 4340(or 4130 for 20bux less?) http://www.memoryexpress.com/Products/MX47970
MOBO: MSI Z97S SLI plus http://www.memoryexpress.com/Products/MX52056
PSU: corsair RM650 http://www.memoryexpress.com/Products/MX48186
Ram: I have 3gb I removed from my desktop when I upgraded I will likely use(2x1gb, 2x512mb)
disc drive: I have two in my desktop, i'll transfer one over for now
HDD/SSD: I may steal one out of my current desktop as well, at least to start


eventually, I'd like to be able to add some of the following as well. some as soon as I find a good deal, others not until they are 'needed'.
video capture card: http://www.memoryexpress.com/Products/MX28240
wifi: http://www.memoryexpress.com/Products/MX39673
more usb: http://www.memoryexpress.com/Products/MX43668
more sata: http://www.memoryexpress.com/Products/MX25392
bd drive: http://www.memoryexpress.com/Products/MX39399


now, what I'd like, is something that gives me a lot of room to grow. I want to minimize the initial cost, but maximize the future use. I've been upgrading and adding things to my current desktop(which I use as a HTPC) and there's nothing wrong with my current desktop as far as function goes, but I've got no where to go with it right now. for years I've been adding external drives(up to 8!) since I have no room to install anything internal. so I'm thinking it's time to start fresh. ideally I want to come out of this with a decent desktop that I can use for basic computing, and to handle my downloading(so I can't completely cannibalize my desktop). And I want the HTPC to store and playback my media in my theater.


anyway, to the case, this is where I'm stuck. functionally, the Silverstone GD08 seems like the logical choice. it's huge, has tons of room for drives, and gets good reviews. my problem, it might be the ugliest case I've ever seen, and for a HTPC this does matter. on the other hand, I can still get my hands on a Silverstone Lascala: http://www.memoryexpress.com/Products/MX47999 I like that it looks much better, hides the disc drive, and it has enough for my current needs. BUT, it doesn't seem to get as good of reviews. it doesn't have as many drive bays, and I think the cooling is better on the GD08 too. are there any other options? I've mostly been looking at what I can buy easily, but for the case, I'm willing to order it online if I can find something more ideal.


if I could make changes to the gd08, it'd be to remove one of the 5.25 bays and give it a 'pretty' face. the size isn't a deal breaker, but if I could go a touch smaller I wouldn't be against that either.


I appreciate all comments and advice in regards to the case or my planned parts.
 
#9 ·
The SATA card you have listed has only SATA II ports, look for one with SATA III (6GB transfer rates vs 3GB on SATA II). Also, your memory seems a little light (only 3GB), I would look at getting at least 2 2GB sticks or even 2 4GB sticks as this will give you plenty of room for future use if you want to stream to other rooms.


Toys
 
#14 ·
what cpu related tasks would you do with it?

If you're not re-encoding blu-rays or something like that,then your i3 is also overkill. You can easily get great playback from a far lesser cpu/mobo combo...just my 2 cents. I'm a minimalist :)
thanks for the input, I realize this as even my current q6600 is 'way overkill' to simply playback media. but the i3 is at a pricepoint where it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to buy less anyway. and I want to give myself options, the last pc I bought was in 2006. I intend to use this CPU/mobo combo for a long time, so I want to make sure it can handle what I may want to do in the future. that MAY entail ripping my own BD's at some point, I don't know.


I mean, there's a reason I'm not looking at i5's or i7's, but the 4130 is about as cheap as you can go anyway. I'm not going to stress over spending 100bux instead of 50bux on a CPU, if it means I can use current tech
 
#11 · (Edited)
If noise is a factor, you'll definitely want to replace the crappy fans included in the GD08. At best they are noticeably louder than models which are designed to be quiet. At worst, they will all start clicking within just a month or two. And it is far easier to replace the fans during the build than having to disconnect drives / remove the large cage afterwards in order to swap out the fans.

P.S. - Again, if noise is a concern, I'd avoid the Lascala case. The GD08 is designed for 120mm fans versus the Lascala's 80mm - the 120s will be quieter than the 80s.
 
#17 ·
If noise is a factor, you'll definitely want to replace the crappy fans included in the GD08. At best they are noticeably louder than models which are designed to be quiet. At worst, they will all start clicking within just a month or two. And it is far easier to replace the fans during the build than having to disconnect drives / remove the large cage afterwards in order to swap out the fans.

P.S. - Again, if noise is a concern, I'd avoid the Lascala case. The GD08 is designed for 120mm fans versus the Lascala's 80mm - the 120s will be quieter than the 80s.
hmm. funny that reading reviews, I got the impression the GD08 was quieter, but didn't notice the difference in fan size. makes sense. just another example of how the GD08 is functionally the obvious choice. I just wish it didn't have those two ugly 5.25 drive doors. I guess if something 'prettier' comes along in the future, I could always do a case upgrade too. much to consider
 
#19 · (Edited)
interesting, it looks ok. but worth double checking for sure.


the label says: 1GB 2Rx8 PC2-5300U-555-12


can you tell from that?


I'm pretty sure this is the ram I replaced it with(4x 2gb): http://www.memoryexpress.com/Products/MX20897

I realize it's DDR2, and the mobo supports DDR3, but I thought it was backwards compatible, no? probably something worth upgrading in time, but I'd prefer to wait for a sale to do that, if possible

this is the desktop I bought: http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf/wc/document?cc=ca&lc=en&docname=c01197667#N257
 
#24 ·
You actually get a performance boost by running 2 sticks of the same size - dual channel. If you only have 2 memory slots then you could get 2 2GB RAM sticks, install them and see a beneft from it.


Toys
 
#25 ·
You actually get a performance boost by running 2 sticks of the same size - dual channel. If you only have 2 memory slots then you could get 2 2GB RAM sticks, install them and see a beneft from it.


Toys
is it enough to justify?


right now all the boards I'm looking at support 4 sticks. if I load them up with 4x1gb or 4x2gb now, I will NOT upgrade in the future. if I start with 1x4gb, or 2x2gb now, I'm likely to add more in the future. I know everybody says ram is cheap, but I don't see it, haha. and I don't want to spend 100bux on ram that I'm going to replace, I'd rather spend 100bux on ram that I will add to.
 
#40 · (Edited)
Basically the only difference between ATX HTPC cases and microATX cases is the height (roughly by an inch). In microATX cases, PSU is laid flat, while it is laid vertically in ATX HTPC cases because the motherboard is 2.4" longer that needs extra space. If slightly lower height is critical for you, choose a microATX case. Otherwise, go either.

Regardless of form factor, generally a deeper case can hold more disks, a shorter case can hold less disks. It happens that generally ATX cases are deeper and microATX cases are shorter.
 
#41 ·
Basically the only difference between ATX HTPC cases and microATX cases is the height (roughly by an inch). In microATX cases, PSU is laid flat, while it is laid vertically in ATX HTPC cases because the motherboard is 2.4" longer that needs extra space. If slightly lower height is critical for you, choose a microATX case. Otherwise, go either.

Regardless of form factor, generally a deeper case can hold more disks, a shorter case can hold less disks. It happens that generally ATX cases are deeper and microATX cases are shorter.
ideally, i'd like a case about the size and look of a high end avr.
that can hold:
-1 5.25 disc drive(NOT any more)
-full size power supply
-at least 6 3.5" HDD's, but the more the merrier. i'm thinking i'll install an m.2 ssd so i'm not worried about having space in the case for a 2.5"
-matx/atx mobo
-hidden front connections for 1 or 2 usb(bonus points if I can have my keyboard dongle installed with the door closed), SD card reader, power button, a window for IR would be cool but not necessary
-decent cooling with quiet fans. but I don't expect to have anything but a bunch of HDD's and super basic computing components, so hopefully heat won't be too bad anyway.

I know the chances of getting all of this is slim to none, just trying to compromise in the right areas. right now, i'm thinking cooling might be an acceptable place to compromise, since I don't expect to generate a ton of heat anyway. but I don't know enough to building pc's to really make that decision
 
#43 ·
I think(based on what's locally available) I've got my mobo selection pretty much nailed down, just going to wait for a sale, or after I've got everything else on sale and its the only thing holding me back.


that choice is the MSI Z97 SLI plus http://www.memoryexpress.com/Products/MX52056


the highlights, reasons I'm liking it include:
-8 sata ports
-8 USB ports on back panel
-plenty of pci-e for upgrades(capture card, wifi, etc)


the thing is, I'm thinking I MAY still end up wanting to add usb ports if I decide to keep my external drives. now this isn't a huge expense by any means(10-30bux), but it had me wondering. maybe I'm better off putting that money towards a better mobo instead of pci-e cards to add to the motherboard. this gave me a couple other possibilities, both WAY overkill for my needs, but pretty close to the same price I'd end up paying for the cheaper mobo and extra parts.


msi mpower z97: http://www.memoryexpress.com/Products/MX52045
it adds 2 more usb ports, and a display port. for about 65bux more.


msi mpower z87: http://www.memoryexpress.com/Products/MX50291
this one adds wifi, display port, and a 2nd hdmi, again for 65bux more.


now, I can weigh my options and decide if it's a better value feature wise. the mpower boards are more than my cheapest options for adding wifi or usb ports, but obviously they are a bit more 'neat' in adding those. what my question is, is if there's any NEGATIVES to using the mpower boards? feature-wise, it appears as though the mpower boards do everything the cheaper MSI mobo does, and just adds a bit more performance/quality for the extra price. I don't mind overspending a bit on the mobo/cpu as those are items I will probably never upgrade, and buying a better one now will likely give me more years of use in the end. but is there anything other than the cost that should concern me? is there any way these boards would be hotter, or use more power, or anything like that?


I'm still pretty sure i'll stick with the 'normal' msi mobo, but if I didn't look into the mpower ones, I'd always wonder about it. because I'm sure i'll end up adding wifi, and possibly the usb ports, so the mpower boards would only end up being an extra 30bux or so in the long run.
 
#46 ·
ok, so, due to some sales, dwindling supply, and price matches, I decided to jump into this.


today I picked up:
-Corsair RM650 PSU
-MSI Z97S SLI Plus mobo
-Intel i3 4360 CPU


so I'm a case and a stick of ram away from having what I need to start using it(I will use a spare HDD and disc drive to start with, and pick up the rest as good sales present themselves, we are close to black Friday afterall...)


Case: Silverstone Lascala LC10B-E or nMedia 6000B? opinions between these two?


Silverstone - seems better build quality, can pick up locally, one more drive bay
nMedia - slightly prefer styling, cheaper, has card reader on the front panel


I'm torn, because if I'm looking to buy a 'for now' case, the nMedia makes more sense. it's got everything I will need for the next 2-3yrs likely, and it's cheaper. but the Silverstone seems like a better long term decision, but if I'm buying long term, I should just get the gd08 since it has the most room to grow and the best internal design(I think?). what do you think the chances are of full size HTPC cases being made again? it seems like they are a dieing item.
 
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