I have an old Dell Precision 390 workstation that I'd like to canabalize and put its internals into a Silverstone GD08 case. This would be my first HTPC build, and I'm wondering if there is a way I can verify my Dell components will work with the GD08 case?
Anyone have any experience they could offer? Any help would be much appreciated, thanks.
Also, I realize this setup is pretty under powered but it will only be used for streaming online content to my AVR, so it should be sufficient I believe.
should have no problem putting that into the gd08 case. but it's going to look awfully empty in there... haha.
the gd08 is a pretty large case, as far as i know there's no special requirements for components. full size hdd's, full size psu, full size mobo(even extended atx fit)... i think the only small restriction is that you can fit 'only' 7 HDD"s or something if you use a long video card.
Dell typically doesn't use standard ATX components. The motherboard and case are BTX form factor iirc, but they also use some proprietary features, so even if you found a BTX case to put the internals in it still might not work.
Ah good ol' BTX, the form-factor that made sense in terms of thermal design but was a never-was in the consumer market. I actually have no idea why it never became commonplace but I'm guessing companies just thought it was too much for consumers to handle to have to buy into a whole new form-factor with different cases, etc. I'm not really sure why, given Intel releases a new socket requiring a new board every year or two anyway, but I guess they felt changing the chassis was a no-no.
The odd thing is some OEMs like HP have had systems where the [ATX] board is mounted on the opposite side of the [vertical standing] case, netting something similar to BTX design with expansion cards "facing" upwards. However unlike BTX this puts the CPU at the bottom and does nothing for the positioning of other things.
Yeah, I've wondered about that too. The transition from AT to ATX actually went pretty smoothly, but perhaps that's because it was fairly trivial to mount an AT board in an ATX case. Perhaps it was just because the improvements with ATX were a little more tangible compared to ATX and BTX.
It's kind of a shame that OEMs and consumer parts didn't land on the same standard. It would simplify a lot.
Mine is connected to a TV, but I remote in for maintenance. The Win7 Concurrent RDP patch is a life saver. Not sure if there is an equivalent for Win8 (or if it's even necessary)
Maybe someone with a GD08 could answer this for me: it looks like there are 8-10 rivets that attach the rear panel to the case (the rear panel with the I/O shield and expansion slot covers), I'm thinking of drilling out those rivets to remove the rear panel, and fabricating a new rear panel that would work with my BTX motherboard.
I doubt you'll have any issues with drivers for any of those boards.
As far as the heatsink goes, I can't speak for your particular case, but most of the BTX Dells I've worked with used a heatsink/fan/shroud combo where the fan was actually mounted on the front of the case and blew through a shroud that covered up the heatsink. It's actually a great system for keeping th eCPU cool but it requires that everything line up properly. If yours is a similar setup you'll not only need to verify that the mounting holes on the motherboard line up with the heatsink mounting hardware (I have no idea if the BTX and ATX standards are similar) you'll also need to make sure the shroud lines up with a fan mount on your case. (that's likely where the issue will be)
If everything lines up, then it should work fine or if your old Dell uses a more traditional fan mounted directly to the heatsink (and the mounting holes line up) that should work as well.
Another update... because the SilverStone GD05 can only accommodate a CPU cooler up to 70mm high (without removing the optical drive, which would make room for 120mm) I'll have to use a low profile heatsink/fan:
Another update... because the SilverStone GD05 can only accommodate a CPU cooler up to 70mm high (without removing the optical drive, which would make room for 120mm) I'll have to use a low profile heatsink/fan:
70mm is still a good bit--still more than enough to use the stock cooler, which for a 65nm/Conroe CPU is higher than the one shown (and has a copper core BTW).
But for even better cooling than stock you can use something like a Big Shuriken 2--you may even be able to use a full height fan on that instead of the noisier slim one it comes with.
Better cooling than that? You could go with an single 120mm AIO provided you can fit the fan/rad with the optical installed.
Trigger pulled, I ended up going with the ASUS P5L-MX which I got for $35, and the low profile Intel E33681-001 heatsink for $2.84.
I don't have any intentions right now to overclock the CPU or expand the RAM, but at least this way I'll have the option if I change my mind. Likely in the future I'll just ditch these outdated components and start fresh with everything new.
Once the motherboard arrives I'll post another update with the testing results and hopefully be stuffing everything into the case soon after.
So now I'm trying to decide which OS I should install while I wait for my parts to arrive. Originally I planned on installing Windows 7, but Windows 8 looks interesting, however my concern is chewing up my already limited system resources with the newer version that appears to be very graphics heavy. I'm also not crazy about shelling out $100+ for an OS. Which led me to looking at Ubuntu, but I know absolutely nothing about it.
The other option would be using Vista or XP which I already own copies of, but are so dated now.
Nah Windows 8/8.1 should be less resource hungry and it does startup faster, if that's of any interest. However I don't really like using it TBH. I only use it in desktop mode (IMO Metro is only good with a touchscreen). There's a lot of weird restrictions in the user interface and stuff though--makes it very annoying at times.
Personally I have it on one PC in the house and refuse to put it on an HTPC because the fonts suck in desktop mode (look really blocky and there's nothing you can do to fix it due to MS using a new font rendering method). Even though there is ClearType it does pretty much nothing--makes you feel like you're using Windows 98 or something on an LCD, it looks so bad. If you'll be using the desktop a lot (i.e. using your HTPC as a PC), I'd recommend against it. If it's just to run "apps", media players, frontends, etc. then 8 would be fine. If you plan on using it for Netflix then 8 is much better there as well.
The mention of XP is jokes but Vista was fine IMO; howeverVista sucks by today's standards for a few reasons:
1. Definitely more resource hungry than 7.
2. Takes noticeably longer to startup than 7.
3. Doesn't have proper support for SSDs/TRIM.
4. Missing a lot of other tweaks and minor improvements that really add up (you only really notice when going from using 7 for so many years to a PC that has Vista on it).
Ubuntu is another choice if it can do what you want and you're willing to learn using it. It's free after all, so can't complain about the price
So I have everything connected, and I'm trying to install Windows, but the system keeps restarting by itself during the install. Typically it reboots itself right after the "setup it loading files screen" but I've made it as far as entering language and country before it restarts. Also tried resetting the CMOS but same problem.
Contacted the eBay seller and they suggested this is common behaviour for bad RAM or PSU. Seeing as the RAM was working fine in the last computer, I'm wondering if the Dell power supply is not compatible with the ASUS motherboard... but how do I check that?
It could also be overheating. Did you use any thermal compound between the CPU and heatsink?
The general method for testing for a bad PSU is to swap it out with a known good PSU. Barring that you can buy a decent PSU tester but those are probably as much as a decent cheap PSU so if you think you're only going to use it once, it doesn't make sense to get.
I do know that some of the Dell power supplies aren't necessarily ATX compliant so it wouldn't shock me to find out that the PSU is the culprit. But in your case I think checking the heatsink is the easiest (and thus first) option I would check.
Does the motherboard have any "health" or "status" sections that show temps and fan speed? If so what kind of temps is it reporting?
That might (very slim chance) work, but I doubt it. Even if it did, I wouldn't trust a board with bulging caps like that for very long. I'd check your options for getting a replacement or a refund.
Also I'm going to need a new CPU cooler as well, the Intel one I ordered from the same eBay seller was bending the ASUS motherboard way too much. See photo.
Shown from another angle, I understand this was a common complaint about this style of Intel cooler (because of the mounting post design) but it seems worse than normal with this motherboard.
So now I'm trying to decide between these two Rosewill CPU coolers. With 70mm available inside the GD05 case for the CPU cooler either one will fit. I'm wondering if the RCX-Z90-AL is better than the low profile RCX-Z775-LP. Or maybe the low profile would have more breathing room around it and do a better job considering the optical drive is directly above the fan?
-First off that cap is in bad shape. It's pretty much done and should be replaced. However replacing a cap on a motherboard you just bought is really not something you want to be doing I'd imagine. I can't say that is causing the problem but the cap is bad. If it's not causing this problem it may cause you other problems.
This is kinda one of the reasons why I was saying to buy a higher-end board as buying older gear is much more likely to have or develop problems like bad caps. Caps don't last forever and cheaper electrolytic ones may not last more than 5-6 years. And if one cap needs replacing now, others may be on their way out. A board with solid caps would probably have fared much better.
-As for the cooler, the stock cooler should not be "bending" the board at all...I'm not sure how that is happening, but it shouldn't be. You're sure that's a 775 cooler right and not an 1155/1156? The holes are slightly different and it shouldn't be possible to install the wrong cooler but being that they are only slightly different it might be possible to force the wrong one on (I dunno I never tried). I have no idea why Intel changed this BTW--stupid move IMO.
Again though for an alternative cooler I suggest just sticking with the stock cooler for Conroe/Allendale CPUs, which will be higher and have the copper core. You can probably find one on eBay or kijiji for cheap.
If you seriously insist on not using the proper stock cooler, then I'd say out of the two above I'd go with the one with the 92mm fan on it as it'll be less noisly. The optical drive being close to the top won't be a huge deal and it will only cover part of the cooler from what it looks like, right? Same thing goes for the stock cooler.
-Finally as for the PSU, static/idle voltages don't tell the whole story or anything close to it. They could indeed look fine and the PSU still be bad. A PSU might work on one board fine but another board may be more sensitive to a given PSU issue than another. Again don't know if it's your problem or not but it's something you should try swapping. I would probably be returning that board though, if I were you. Bulging cap is not a good sign and as I said, how long is it before other caps give up the ghost?
This is kinda one of the reasons why I was saying to buy a higher-end board as buying older gear is much more likely to have or develop problems like bad caps.
I know the ASRock G41C-GS is not a high end board but at least it's brand new which should eliminate some of the "unknown" issues I was having with the used ASUS board. Also I like that the ASRock board can use DDR2 or DDR3 memory, and it sounds like the G41 chipset should be better than the 945G you warned about?
Here is another observation of the defective ASUS P5L-MX I received... why is the ICH7 heatsink in such rough shape? In all the photos of this board I see online the ICH7 heatsink is black, but the one on my board is more of a bronze, covered in scratches, and what looks like burn marks? Any ideas? See photos below.
So I started shopping for new memory that would make my old CPU compatible with the new ASRock motherboard, because obviously it doesn't make any sense to underclock an already slow CPU just to make it work with slow RAM...
But what I've realized is now I'm just buying new parts to make a 7 year old CPU work, and for the same money I can just buy a new motherboard with an integrated CPU and DDR3 memory and have a much faster system:
I know the integrated CPU is not ideal, but even with a 775 socket I likely would be looking at replacing the motherboard in the future when I decide to upgrade.
So I started shopping for new memory that would make my old CPU compatible with the new ASRock motherboard, because obviously it doesn't make any sense to underclock an already slow CPU just to make it work with slow RAM...
This shouldn't be happening at all. The board should be able to employ a divider to run the ram at 533 (effective) or somewhat lower (520 for example), without issue...even with a CPU with a higher FSB. This is exactly how it must have been working on your previous board so I have no idea why it's not booting on the new board.
Do you have a PC speaker or mini-buzzer connected up so you can hear the beep codes? If so, what beeps are you getting?
You could try a BSEL mod to change the CPU's FSB "appearance" to the motherboard but again this shouldn't even be necessary. Also, as you say, underclocking an already low-clocked 7yr old CPU is not really going to be a great time. However doing a temporary BSEL mod may enable you to at least boot and change the multipliers. Still I don't think you should have to do that. Have you tried booting with just one DIMM in to see if you can get it to POST?
But what I've realized is now I'm just buying new parts to make a 7 year old CPU work, and for the same money I can just buy a new motherboard with an integrated CPU and DDR3 memory and have a much faster system:
I know the integrated CPU is not ideal, but even with a 775 socket I likely would be looking at replacing the motherboard in the future when I decide to upgrade.
I agree, this has gone on a bit long and with too many headaches to bother with such old h/w, especially given you intended to run at the CPUs stock speed.
However, note that the board you listed is an Atom board--pretty low computational power. Yes I know it's called a "Celeron" but Celeron J ain't no "real" Celeron IMO. It's merely an Atom quad-core with a Celeron name. On the plus side it does have four cores and is pretty low power, but on the minus side...it's still an Atom at heart.
If it's just for media playback use then the above likely be okay. However if you intend to do more CPU-intensive tasks--encoding, editing, gaming, etc. then I'd recommend you at least go with something like a Pentium G3258 (or G3220 if not OCing) and a $70-90 board.
Only thing that sucks is RAM is not cheap these days but if you go with only 4GB you'll get away with spending "only" $40 or so. Given you'll have to buy DDR3 either way, you're looking at a $60-80 premium for a socketed, Haswell-based, Pentium G build over an un-upgradable Atom setup. Up to you.
Lack of airflow shouldn't be a big deal on an Atom CPU, yes passive coolers are sometimes designed to have some airflow but these are widely used without any fan cooling (case or otherwise) of any kind (look at all the mini pcs out there built around the Atom platform). Plus this is a 22nm CPU, and the Tjmax on one of these is over 100C. Running at 38C or even 58C, should not make a difference.
I'm tempted to say, "this is why I don't buy ASSRock" lol, but then you still haven't swapped out the one possible remaining culprit--the PSU. Replace/change the PSU already! Lol. If you really don't want to buy one see if you can borrow one from someone, take one from another machine you have, etc. You can also buy from somewhere with a good return policy (even if it means paying more) so you can return it if it's not the problem.
If, in the end, it's not the problem, I'm going to go back to the above bit about not trusting ASRock--the board you got may be defective. I mean that could happen with any board but these days QC is a lot better, from the more reputable brands at least.
The other alternative is just to stick with the G41-chipset board you got, and the DDR3 (which you seem to have working now?); return the J1900 board. However if the PSU is flaky you could run into problems later on anyway--personally I'd just replace it. The one from the Dell has probably been in use for 6-7 years and was probably nothing great to begin with.
I decided to not take any chances at this point... I returned the Q1900M and the 4GB DDR3 RAM and swapped them both for new ones, and while I was there picked up an Antec VP450 PSU. This means the only original part I'm using from the old Dell system is the HDD (and if I remember correctly even that I upgraded from the OEM drive).
Doogals,
Where are you located? I am/have been in a similar boat recently, and many (including ES) have helped me tremendously. I have two spare PSU's one is "new"/never used, other than for testing...the other is a DELL 330 watt from an Optiplex 330 that I just overhauled, confirmed working...
The NIB is a 500 watt, Chinese from a PC bundle that I built for my brother. I am hesitant to offer it, because some reviews stated that this PSU may melt/cause fires. In fact, that's the reason I replaced it when I built my brother's system...I was not going to take the chance. So it remains my bench test PSU...
I am out of work, otherwise I would just send it to you. But, if you are interested, let me know. I am seeing all your trials here, and am remembering my fight, just a few short weeks ago.
Thanks very much for the offer Kevin but hopefully the new PSU is the missing piece to this puzzle. Sounds like you had the same headaches trying to repurpose an old OptiPlex?
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