8TB drives here, and at a reasonable price! - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 110 Old 12-09-2014, 01:50 PM - Thread Starter
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8TB drives here, and at a reasonable price!

http://www.extremetech.com/computing...b-for-just-260

Crazy. I used to dream about just having a server with a 2 10TB drives for data and one for parity. Figured we were a long ways off before that would be possible at an even remotely decent price. Guess not!
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post #2 of 110 Old 12-09-2014, 02:35 PM
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These are shingled drives, so beware.
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post #3 of 110 Old 12-09-2014, 04:07 PM
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what's to beware of?

the info in the article sounds promising. sacrificing a bit of speed for improvements in reliability and storage space. i can't imagine too many ppl using 8tb drives for anything other than storage of media, so that seems like a great trade off if it's true.

just wondering if there's a disconnect between reality and marketing.

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post #4 of 110 Old 12-09-2014, 06:03 PM
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The drives all spin at 5,900 RPM and have a 128MB cache, with an average read/write throughput of 150MB/sec (190MB/sec max). There’s a three-year warranty, and a fairly high MTBF (mean time between failures) of 800,000 hours.
What is not to love, for a data storage drive? I can see me using this to greatly reduce the number of 4TB HDDs I have in my HTPC.


800,000 / 24 = 33,333 days.
33,333 / 365 = 91 years.
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Non-standard RAIDs can recover deleted files. Anyone who says RAID protection is only for failed drives is lying.
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post #5 of 110 Old 12-09-2014, 06:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Luke M View Post
These are shingled drives, so beware.
So they are carrying the chicken pox virus?

RAID protection is only for failed drives. That's it. It's no replacement for a proper backup.
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post #6 of 110 Old 12-10-2014, 03:16 AM
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Those will sell like hot cake when they come out next year...

You can pass all the performance talk to the birds... the price tag is simply amazing...

I'm eager to see the HDD space / price war that will follow...
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post #7 of 110 Old 12-10-2014, 03:24 AM
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Originally Posted by fierce_gt View Post
what's to beware of?
http://lwn.net/Articles/591782/

There are various ways that shingled drives can be managed, some of which impose special software requirements (at least for best performance). We have to wait and see how these things perform, whether the cost reduction is worth the headaches.
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Last edited by Luke M; 12-10-2014 at 03:37 AM.
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post #8 of 110 Old 12-10-2014, 07:29 AM
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6TB drives for $199 will be the new 3Tb for $99 thing...
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post #9 of 110 Old 12-10-2014, 08:29 AM
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$30-35 per TB seems to be about the norm these days so $260 for 8TB is about right.
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post #10 of 110 Old 12-10-2014, 08:35 AM
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I got three 3TB Toshiba today @ $81 each shipped from newegg with the promo code.
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post #11 of 110 Old 12-10-2014, 12:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by captain_video View Post
$30-35 per TB seems to be about the norm these days so $260 for 8TB is about right.
unless you have limited space and there's an advantage to getting one 8th instead of 2 4tb drives. seems like 3tb is the 'sweet spot' right now, but I don't want to buy such 'small' drives as I've already run out of space once. 260 for 8tb is actually cheaper than a 6tb WD green drive. so for that size of drive, it's a good price imo.


I'd love to be able to pick up some 6tb drives for 180-200bux

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post #12 of 110 Old 12-10-2014, 12:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Luke M View Post
http://lwn.net/Articles/591782/

There are various ways that shingled drives can be managed, some of which impose special software requirements (at least for best performance). We have to wait and see how these things perform, whether the cost reduction is worth the headaches.
thanks. looks like the issues won't apply to me, good to know.

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post #13 of 110 Old 12-10-2014, 01:39 PM
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Originally Posted by fierce_gt View Post
what's to beware of?
Apparently you do not watch tv shows (and/or the associated medical commercials) targeted at old geezers.
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post #14 of 110 Old 12-10-2014, 01:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fierce_gt View Post
unless you have limited space and there's an advantage to getting one 8th instead of 2 4tb drives. seems like 3tb is the 'sweet spot' right now, but I don't want to buy such 'small' drives as I've already run out of space once. 260 for 8tb is actually cheaper than a 6tb WD green drive. so for that size of drive, it's a good price imo.


I'd love to be able to pick up some 6tb drives for 180-200bux
New high capacity drives are usually introduced at a premium until production meets the demand. The cost per TB eventually comes down to what other lower capacity drives cost. 5TB external drives are currently going for about $120 on sale, which is actually lower than most 4TB models. Introducing an 8TB drive at this price is unprecedented.
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post #15 of 110 Old 12-10-2014, 01:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post
6TB drives for $199 will be the new 3Tb for $99 thing...
BAH! I've already purchased 6TB internals from Best Buy for $180 months ago when on sale..
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post #16 of 110 Old 12-10-2014, 02:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Luke M View Post
http://lwn.net/Articles/591782/

There are various ways that shingled drives can be managed, some of which impose special software requirements (at least for best performance). We have to wait and see how these things perform, whether the cost reduction is worth the headaches.
Just another reason to avoid Linux.


Since these are targeted as cold storage drives, which is how everyone here will use them (store movies), the performance of the drive only has to be equal to the ancient SATA 150 drives. We know it will be faster than that, so there are no issues...at least for Windows users.
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Non-standard RAIDs can recover deleted files. Anyone who says RAID protection is only for failed drives is lying.
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post #17 of 110 Old 12-10-2014, 02:53 PM
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Just another reason to avoid Linux.
Huh?
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post #18 of 110 Old 12-10-2014, 03:51 PM
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Originally Posted by captain_video View Post
New high capacity drives are usually introduced at a premium until production meets the demand. The cost per TB eventually comes down to what other lower capacity drives cost. 5TB external drives are currently going for about $120 on sale, which is actually lower than most 4TB models. Introducing an 8TB drive at this price is unprecedented.
that's exactly what i mean. we are paying a 'premium' for the high capacity, so for an 8TB drive to match current $/tb ratios of a 3tb drive is excellent.

i mean scaled down, i would expect to get the 4tb version for about 100bux!

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post #19 of 110 Old 12-10-2014, 03:53 PM
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Originally Posted by mecmec View Post
BAH! I've already purchased 6TB internals from Best Buy for $180 months ago when on sale..
man, i wish we had that kind of market here. i almost jumped on the 6tb wd red because it was the first time i'd seen it under 300...

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post #20 of 110 Old 12-11-2014, 08:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Luke M View Post
Huh?
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The overall sense was that kernel developers are waiting for hardware before trying to determine how best to support SMR in Linux. No major complaints about the draft interface were heard, but until hardware hits, it will be difficult for anyone to determine where the problems lie.
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The drives will just work in Windows - no need to wait for kernel developers to create a solution to the problem.

Non-standard RAIDs can recover deleted files. Anyone who says RAID protection is only for failed drives is lying.
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post #21 of 110 Old 12-11-2014, 09:34 AM
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The drives will just work in Windows - no need to wait for kernel developers to create a solution to the problem.
Wow. Way to show a complete lack of understanding to the problem. Some of your finest work.

RAID protection is only for failed drives. That's it. It's no replacement for a proper backup.
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post #22 of 110 Old 12-11-2014, 10:01 AM
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Originally Posted by htpcforever View Post
What is not to love, for a data storage drive? I can see me using this to greatly reduce the number of 4TB HDDs I have in my HTPC.


800,000 / 24 = 33,333 days.
33,333 / 365 = 91 years.
What am I reading.jpg
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post #23 of 110 Old 12-11-2014, 10:21 AM
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Originally Posted by JDub8 View Post
What am I reading.jpg
In my post, I quoted this:


There’s a three-year warranty, and a fairly high MTBF (mean time between failures) of 800,000 hours.


Then I did the math to find out how many years 800,000 hours is.


800,000 hours / 24 hours per day = 33,333 days.
33,333 days / 365 days per year = 91 years.


Yes, it is a little off since I did not take the extra day of the leap years into account. It is close enough to say the MTBF is 91 years. I simply found it interesting to convert hours to years. Makes the hours look MUCH longer when expressed in years (even though they are the same length of time).


Of course, there is only a 37% chance of any one device meeting the MTBF (due to the way it is calculated). This is due to the initial failures and the end of life failures (as shown in the bathtub curve).


EDIT: As an aside, the WD Reds have 1,000,000 hours MTBF, which is 114 years.

Non-standard RAIDs can recover deleted files. Anyone who says RAID protection is only for failed drives is lying.
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post #24 of 110 Old 12-11-2014, 02:18 PM
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Also, I'm skeptical of the initial pricing.

I fully expect BackBlaze to try and buy all of them, which will have an adverse effect on the price.

RAID protection is only for failed drives. That's it. It's no replacement for a proper backup.
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post #25 of 110 Old 12-11-2014, 03:56 PM
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Originally Posted by htpcforever View Post
Of course, there is only a 37% chance of any one device meeting the MTBF (due to the way it is calculated).
For every 1000 babies born in Singapore, 1.92 don't survive their first year, which works out to a MTBF of 526 years. Of course, there is only a 37% chance of any one baby surviving that long.

MTBF hours and lifespan hours aren't convertible. It's like torque and energy--totally different concepts, even though both can be expressed in newton-meters. You can only compare MTBF to MTBF, and 800k hours isn't impressive.
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post #26 of 110 Old 12-11-2014, 04:21 PM
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All HDD ratings are rubbish, it's pure marketing.

I wouldn't trust any spec other than size or weight.
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post #27 of 110 Old 12-12-2014, 06:34 AM
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Its about time - now if only Hitachi would release a similarly priced / capacity HDD from a company I trust I will pull out my pocket book and buy a couple.
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post #28 of 110 Old 12-12-2014, 06:44 AM
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Just wondering if anything special would be needed to add larger drives. Say if I replaced 2TB with 4 or 6TB drives would I need anything special or upgraded hardware?

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post #29 of 110 Old 12-12-2014, 07:19 AM
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Originally Posted by BCRSS View Post
Just wondering if anything special would be needed to add larger drives. Say if I replaced 2TB with 4 or 6TB drives would I need anything special or upgraded hardware?
Depends on the existing hardware. Some older controllers have a 2TB "hardware" limitation that can't be "fixed" with firmware. You'll have to do some googling on your specific motherboard and/or hard disk controller to determine if it can handle the larger drives. I think there's also a limitation in some older OS (like windows XP and maybe Vista).
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post #30 of 110 Old 12-12-2014, 07:22 AM
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Thanks for that. Will be needing more space soon, so looking at larger drives to expand my NAS.

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