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Help I am lost and going crazy over audio...

1K views 27 replies 5 participants last post by  magicc8ball 
#1 ·
Well my mind is hurting and I am ready to make a decision on what Audio Codec I should be using.
I have just completed my HTPC build, now I am working on getting everything converted to MKV and I am lost as if I should use AAC, AC3, DTS HD or something else.
Currently I use Handbrake to take the movies to MKV and while most of them are in AC3 I would just like everything to be in the same format once I start doing my blu-rays.

My first question would be what would be more future proof while giving me the best sound quality I can achieve? I will be building a 5.1 system later this year with some Goldenear Speakers.
Second question would be what program would you use to put it into an MKV while giving me the most flexibility and options for different audio codec's?

I would like to find a program that will allow me to do DTS Master Audio and DD TrueHD. I would not mind paying for the program I just want the most flexible program.

There will be some movies that I do not wrap into an MKV or mess with the audio at all. This will not happen to all of my Blu Rays but some of them.

The HTPC build I just completed will be used to stream my movies, what music I have and then eventually I will be using it as my DVR for tv. I have downloaded Kodi(XBMC), Media Browser, Jriver, and I will be using plex to stream it remotely. WMC will be used for my DVR needs unless one of the others do it better.


If I have not given enough info please ask, I am still new to a lot of this but I am willing and wanting to learn. :)
 
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#2 ·
What kind of DVR? ServerWMC can extend your guide data, channel logos, recording schedule, and recording directories to xbmc and media browser. Works great with OTA, limited success with cable (like Comcast or Verizon, but no hbo, cinemax, starz)

Just use makemkv and ditch handbrake. Much faster and better really. Keep 1:1 video and audio with as many audio and subtitle tracks as you want in a single container

The easiest method is to process your sound externally. Jriver and Kodi can send bit perfect HDMI audio in windows and Linux (wasapi in windows) . . . then with the unaltered stream let your receiver process, apply room correction, etc, then send from there to your speakers
 
#4 ·
I do not quite understand by what DVR you mean. Instead of using the Verizon Fios provided DVR I will just manage my recordings and playback through WMC. I hope this answers your question about what DVR.

With Make MKV it will always just do a 1:1 mapping right? I cannot change the Audio Codec correct? What other program could I use that would allow me to select DD True HD or DTS MA, as well as AC3 and AAC? I have some movies that I do not want a 1:1 mapping as I do not care so much on quality as I do space for everything. So with that if I were to use Make MKV for the 1:1 what should I use for the others?

Currently I have an Yamaha Aventage 720 so it will process AAC, AC3, DD TrueHD and DTSMA. With that said I would need to download and install Wasapi? My plan was to use Jriver for just music, Kodi or Media Browser for TVshows/Movies and WMC for my Verizon Fios DVR material.

Keeping the original is preferred as you then do not introduce noise in the conversion (Lossless conversion can only be done from one lossless format to another lossless format. Going from lossless to a lossy can also be done if you need to reduce the bitrate. Converting from one lossy format to another should be avoided entirely). Most of the multichannel formats are lossy, so you get the best quality by keeping the original format of the source and best quality by keeping the soundtrack as it is on the BR.
While I do prefer the originals, if I do not want the size of the file to waste so much space for a movie that does not bother me if it is not the greatest quality. What codec should I use that would also be more future proof, AAC? If the file is already in AC3 then converting it to AAC would do more harm then good, that is if I am understanding your statement of going from Lossy to Lossy. I guess should have directed my question to more of a quality per GB rather than just overall future proofing.

Thanks for the answers thus far!
 
#3 ·
Keeping the original is preferred as you then do not introduce noise in the conversion (Lossless conversion can only be done from one lossless format to another lossless format. Going from lossless to a lossy can also be done if you need to reduce the bitrate. Converting from one lossy format to another should be avoided entirely). Most of the multichannel formats are lossy, so you get the best quality by keeping the original format of the source and best quality by keeping the soundtrack as it is on the BR.
 
#5 ·
ServerWMC works well with FiOS except HBO, cinemax, starz

It can put your TV package from wmc into xbmc or media browser which makes the end experience more flexible and seamless

I asked what kind of dvr, but I should have said OTA or cable. Cable providers other than Comcast, FiOS, and charter aren't possible to watch out of the actual WMC, and serverwmc can't extend that anywhere. No other PVR packages exist that let you watch other than WMC, but with FiOS you are in luck and have a lot more flexibility

You can select every audio track on the disc to be added into the same mkv with makemkv, or just one, whatever you prefer

To reduce space handbrake is the preferred method, but I'd honestly just suggest installing media browser or Plex to dlna transcode those files for devices with limited support. As to space, storage is fairly cheap so I'd recommend just expanding it rather than encoding your files down
 
#6 ·
Thanks Dark for replying.

ServerWMC just allows me view my Fios package from within Media Browser of XBMC (Kodi), only when using WMC as the source? You mentioned it not being able to do HBO/Cine/Starz, is there a program that allows us to do that? When you are talking about more flexibility you mean being able to use ServerWMC to send it to either Media Browser or XBMC right? Are there any others?

Hm ok I will have to look at Make MKV more, I guess I was to tired when I was doing a couple the other night...

I love using handbrake but it does not allow me to encode to DTS MA or DD True HD. My question should have been what program allows me to mess around with those 2 codec's?
Plex has been my go to for mobile/limited devices mainly cause I have never heard of Media Browser, but I really do like the interface of MB.
Agreed that storage is cheap was just thinking that everyone had a codec they like to go to to save space for those movies/tv shows that quality was not a concern.

Thanks again, I love this site and the advice everyone gives no matter how often the question is asked.
 
#13 ·
I love using handbrake but it does not allow me to encode to DTS MA or DD True HD. My question should have been what program allows me to mess around with those 2 codec's?
Plex has been my go to for mobile/limited devices mainly cause I have never heard of Media Browser, but I really do like the interface of MB.
Agreed that storage is cheap was just thinking that everyone had a codec they like to go to to save space for those movies/tv shows that quality was not a concern.
If I were you I wouldn't worry about the storage space that audio takes up since it's really negligable compared to video. I also wouldn't bother to find a particular codec or codecs to convert your audio tracks too unless that was a decision driven by your own playback equipment. (ie. if you were playing through some kind of set top box or an old receiver that didn't support HD audio codecs, etc.). If you don't have any limitation like that then there's really no reason you can keep all the original audio tracks and still Handbrake everything, if that's you're preference. It just requires that for the HD audio codecs that Handbrake doesn't support passthru for (TrueHD and PCM) you take the extra step of muxing that track back into the Handbrake encoded MKV.

For example, if encoding the bluray of 2001 (PCM 5.1 audio) I would rip with MakeMKV then use Handbrake to encode the video only (on the audio tab simply don't select any tracks). Then use MKVMerge to take the PCM audio track from the full rip and mux it into the Hanbrake encoded MKV. That's the method that works for me anyway.
 
#7 ·
Serverwmc is one option, and it does require wmc. If you are already running windows this is a great combination (better tuner support and conflict management). Running WMC (and using it) doesn't give you a ton of flexibility and options IMO. However letting it run (as a server) but extending it to wherever you run mediabrowser or xbmc is a great improvement in flexibility IMO

As far as the premiums (HBO, cinemax, starz, and encore) there are two options
1) run wmc and mediabrowser classic (since copy once content like HBO will only work in wmc)
2) keep a cable box and run it's non-hdmi outputs to a hauppauge colossus capture card and configure the ir blaster to change your channels (on the cable box) from within your software of choice (no recording while watching with this method and certainly not as elegant)
 
#10 ·
Aside from the premium movie channels your regular FiOS programming like comedy central, history, ESPN, locals, military, e, USA, etc will all work with or without WMC. It's really just the four networks I mentioned that are marked copy once on FiOS

Available options are
-ServerWMC
-NextPVR
-Mediaportal
-Argus
-MythTV

All of those can do cable TV except copy once
Yes I am running windows 7 pro as my server.

If I understand the first option for the premium channels then I can use either XBMC or MediaBrowser with ServerWMC as the middle man for regular channels and WMC just for the Copy Once Channels, correct? Was there a reason why you said MediaBrowser Classic in option 1?


Many older receivers does not understand AAC over hdmi, so I would avoid it. The standard bitrate seems to be 1500kbps for 6 channel DTS/AC3, so I would go with DTS if the source is in that and AC3 if the source is in that format and the reencode with the 1500 kbps to reduce file size. If both are available, then DTS. If surround is supported by devices, these two will almost always by supported. Some devices such as ipad does not support ac3, but I have mediabrowser server and it will transcode the audio to a format the ipad client can understand.
I will be checking out media browser for those types of devices. But it will be difficult to sway me from Plex :).
 
#8 ·
Aside from the premium movie channels your regular FiOS programming like comedy central, history, ESPN, locals, military, e, USA, etc will all work with or without WMC. It's really just the four networks I mentioned that are marked copy once on FiOS

Available options are
-ServerWMC
-NextPVR
-Mediaportal
-Argus
-MythTV

All of those can do cable TV except copy once
 
#12 ·
Well right now I do not subscribe to HBO or any other premium channel, but that does not mean I will not do it within a year or so.

Currently all I have is one tv so only need one pc but have a ton of mobile devices and when I travel I do enjoy a move in the hotel and what not.
When you talk about extenders what do you mean? Software like ServerWMC?

I might just follow suit and not ever get the premium channels lol.
 
#19 ·
Later you mentioned ignoring HBO altogether

That's what I'd recommend, and be sure to get a silicondust hdhr prime instead of the ceton. ServerWMC is still the best option in my opinion. I've not had any issues with it, and I happily used it with Comcast. It will never support HBO though (for me that was never a problem)

ServerWMC works better with silicondust tuners than Ceton, it will mux straight from your network tuners with SD and use their dynamic tuner allocation

I use it with a regular silicondust hdhomerun and OTA TV. It's been quick and reliable. I run only xbmc clients in the house and Mediabrowser at my brother in law, father in law, and sister's houses. They don't use livetv though recordings are accessible and work well enough
 
#20 ·
ServerWMC works better with silicondust tuners than Ceton, it will mux straight from your network tuners with SD and use their dynamic tuner allocation
That hadn't occurred to me before. I have Ceton tuners, and ServerWMC eventually grabs every tuner and won't let go, leaving my system completely useless in a matter of hours. I have a few SD tuners in my closet as spares. I may give one a try and see if I have any better luck. Thanks for the tip.
 
#25 ·
Mdavej,

I am sorry I should have described my set up better.

My end goal is to have an all in one solution (HTPC). This will playback my current Movie collection as well as my Music collection.
Which I have used Plex for awhile but I just want better quality and something that is easier to navigate with a remote but with good eye candy.
Currently I have a receiver that has a PS3, Verizon Set Top Box and my PC connected to it. I have just ordered an Verizon Cable Card and should be here sometime. Once I have this I will then be able to remove the Set Top Box. I will be getting rid of the router I am currently using and purchase something else that will support Wireless AC, even tho I have nothing to take advantage of it. Currently my LAN all works of off a 10/100/1000 gig switch so I am not worried about the LAN.

What I am working on now is migrating from Plex to something like Media Browser or XBMC (Kodi). Right now I just have my movies directory in the MB Server and then I am using the MB Client to watch them.

When I use the MB client does it pull from the MB server or does WMC find the server and the MB Client runs through it? I get a little confused on that part.

All the info that I have received from this thread is helping me make those decisions.
 
#27 ·
What I am working on now is migrating from Plex to something like Media Browser or XBMC (Kodi). Right now I just have my movies directory in the MB Server and then I am using the MB Client to watch them.

When I use the MB client does it pull from the MB server or does WMC find the server and the MB Client runs through it? I get a little confused on that part.

All the info that I have received from this thread is helping me make those decisions.
Everything goes through the server. It's easiest if your server is just W7 or W8/8.1 w/ WMC

Here's a good guide http://assassinhtpcblog.com/paid-guides-10/#guide40

Assassin's guide takes you all the way through setting things up in XBMC (which is simply installing an add-on). If you want to use MB3 only then you can still use that same guide, just go all the way to the XBMC part and then use the MB3-server dashboard to install the "ServerWMC Plugin" -- then you'll have ServerWMC going to your MB clients that support PVR (almost all at this point afaik, supports transcoding too)

However, I think the MB client "pvr" portion is really great for recordings only. The great thing about ServerWMC is that you don't have to mess about with your recording directory at all. Just make sure it's shared (requirement for ServerWMC to work), and all of your recordings will be picked up in your MB and Kodi clients. The recordings are easier to watch since they aren't real time and can be transcoded

If live-tv is going to be your thing I recommend going straight for Kodi. You can run the MB3 add-on in Kodi to make your MB3 library show up there with a custom skin. The MB3 add-on doesn't interfere with PVR or other programs/add-ons you may want to run. The channel change times have finally gotten pretty bearable in Kodi with ServerWMC and HDHomerun tuners.
 
#26 ·
I know very little about MB, so maybe this will help clarify:


What I do know is the original MB was a WMC plugin and relied on WMC to function. The new MB3 is stand-alone and has its own server and clients. XBMC works in a similar way, with its own server and clients. There's really nothing stopping your from loading all of the above and trying them all out to see what you like best.
 
#28 ·
Awesome, I will be trying both out and messing around with the plugins and just see what I like. My cable card should come in tomorrow so I will have the hd home run waiting.

Hope you all did not get to irritated by all my questions :)

Thanks everyone for the info!
 
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