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ESXi compatibility / starter advice needed

807 views 21 replies 7 participants last post by  ElJimador 
#1 ·
Hi. I'm planning a new server/htpc build and wondering how do-able it should be to run ESXi with Windows 8.1 pro and unRAID as guest OS's? Or if not ESXi if there's some other approach to allow me to run both on the same machine? To be honest I'm just starting to learn about virtualization and what I think I need to start is just some guidance on whether my hardware is compatible and then if it is maybe some pointers on installing ESXi and the Windows guest OS. If I can get that running first then I can take a little more time on the unRAID piece since I'm not planning to buy the new hard drives for it until later this year anyway.

Here's my hardware with some compatibility notes on each based on the research I've been able to do so far:

Board: Asus H97M Plus (per ESXi forum, compatible except for some issues w/the NIC which it sounds like there are workarounds for).

CPU and Graphics: Xeon E3-1230 v3 + GTX 750 Ti or i7-4790 w/IG (the other will go in my current Windows server/htpc which is being repurposed as a desktop; Anyone know if either should work? I know both CPUs are compatible but I don't really understand how graphics are passed through and whether the 750 Ti can be assigned for Windows while unRAID effectively runs headless)

RAM: 8GB DDR3 1600 (2x4GB) (can upgrade to 4x4GB if that's not enough however if I were running these in separate machines I don't think I'd ever use >4GB in Windows and 4GB has been plenty for other unRAID server I already have).

SATA ports and controllers: the board has 6x SATA3 ports and a PCI-E 2.0 x16 (x4) slot that I was going to use to throw in a 4 port SATA controller card like this one -- http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16816124060. I've read that trying to assign individual SATA ports to different guest OS's in ESXi is a bear so my thought here was to port the 4x 4TB WD Reds + FlexRAID (tRAID) license from my current HTPC, run those from the PCI card assigned to Windows while all the board's SATA ports are assigned to unRAID and eventually filled with 6TB drives.

OS drives: the board has an onboard M2 slot that I've bought a 256GB Plextor SSD for to be the Windows OS drive and run in PCI-E mode, since using a SATA M2 SSD instead would disable 2 of the board's SATA ports. If that's assigned to Windows then unRAID and ESXi should both be able to run from USB flash drives, correct? I've read there are some tricks getting unRAID set up to boot from the USB and setting up the boot order but I've found a couple how-to's that seem to cover most of it.

PSU: Corsair RM650 (650w Gold)

Case: Fractal Design Node 805

So what do you think? Does the config I have in mind make sense for this hardware? Is it a sound approach or am I walking into a huge headache? I know I'm facing a pretty steep learning curve just to get this set up the way I want it but after that I'm really hoping it can be as low maintenance as if I were running both Windows and unRAID as separate machines.

If it looks like it's going to be too big a challenge my fallback has to be to find another parity solution besides FlexRAID for Windows. I haven't had the problems here that some others have reported but those warnings from users + the lack of support evidenced by their outdated wikis and seemingly one-man forum make me really nervous about trusting any more drives to a FlexRAID array. So I am open for suggestions on other FlexRAID alternatives also (maybe just Windows Storage Spaces since I prefer real time RAID anyway and that seems to be the only other solution that allows it?). Anyway, it's just the fact that unRAID has worked so well for me that has me preferring this ESXi approach instead. If I can pull it off, that is. Thanks in advance for any feedback.
 
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#5 ·
Thanks. I've poked around the unRAID forum a little on this and will go back for a deeper dive. Apparently there's also the option to run unRAID 6 natively with Windows as a guest OS. I imagine any problems passing through hardware (the graphics card or sata controller card) with ESXi would likely be the same with any approach. I just haven't found enough detailed how-to's to know the different options and weigh how they would work for me. Anyway, I just thought I'd try to learn a little more here first since the unRAID forum can be a little advanced on a topic like this and I'd like to sharpen my questions before I post there again.
 
#3 ·
Also, look into SnapRaid as a FlexRaid alternative. I personally haven't had any issues with FlexRaid though, and it has successfully recovered several drives. Also you are much better off going with an LSI HBA like the Ibm M1015 to add sata ports no matter which way you go.
 
#6 ·
Thanks again. I expected the controller card was going to be one of the main challenges. Honestly if what I'm trying to do is going to require a $200 card when I'm running software RAID anyway then at that point I'd rather just stick to looking at FlexRAID alternatives.
 
#7 ·
No I didn't know that. My only reason for ESXi was that it seems the most popular approach these days to virtualization. At least from my (total noob) perspective and what I hear on my portions of the intertubes. I'm open to any way to run Windows and unRAID on the same box if someone could just point me in the right direction. My only requirement is there has to be some decent support available like you can find in the communities for unRAID, XBMC or here. If I get stuck at some point trying to figure something out on my own then it's not going to work for me.
 
#8 ·
I'm starting to think that the best approach for me is to just run unRAID natively and go from there. Even if I never figure out how to run Windows as guest, if I'm eventually going to pack a new server with upwards of 50TB of data the priority has to be that I have total confidence in the raid solution first. I could even go back to using my NUC as HTPC (w/openelec Plex Home Theater or Kodi) and skipping Windows altogether since I could still run Plex server on unRAID.

In fact now that I about it the biggest reason I switched Windows for my HTPC in the first place was to run MadVR, which I pretty much don't use anymore now that I'm starting to prefer PHT as my front end anyway. Although I would still like to leave some flexibility to use a graphics card (especially if I upgrade to a 4K TV sometime over the next couple years) I suppose I could just cross that bridge when I come to it.

Anyway, obviously I'm still thinking through this. In the meantime I'd still like advice on virtualized approaches too if anyone has any other thoughts to offer on that.
 
#9 ·
I'm looking at going down a similar path, I've already got an unRAID server running and I'm looking forward to upgrading to 6.0 when it's final. I just got an Asus Chromebox and put OpenELEC on it, and save for a couple little remote control niggles I've got to work out, it's working great.

But back to unRAID, I'm looking at consolidating my unRAID and my SageTV (or possibly moving to NPVR backend with Kodi) machines with unRAID 6 and a Windows VM for SageTV or NPVR. I'm trying to wait until 6.0 gets released, or maybe at least to RC stage before I jump in.
 
#11 ·
Yeah, the people at unRaid have spent a lot of time getting Win 8.1 and other OSses to work with GPU pass through. It's much more supported in KVM (I think that's what they use) than ESXi. Also, the M1015 and other HBAs are the best cards to use for software RAID like FlexRaid, SnapRaid, and unRaid. They pass through easily and should only be $80-$100 on a good deal on eBay.
 
#17 ·
I prefer Plex Home Theater to the Roku (or RARFlix) UI. Though granted I haven't seen the latest version for Roku that Plex has been making such a fuss about.

But yeah, per my latest thoughts just posted I agree with keeping the priority on the server part with unRAID even if I can't eventually get the HTPC as guest part to work out the way I'd like.

Sometimes it just takes posting this stuff to help remind you of your priorities and get your thoughts in order. Lord knows I'm not talking this stuff at home w/my wife (or w/anyone else for that matter) so having this forum as sounding board is invaluable.
 
#16 ·
Okay I've just spent some time reading virtualization approaches supported by unRAID 6, including this very handy overview from the Lime Tech blog -- http://lime-technology.com/exciting-new-developments-with-unraid-6/

If I'm understanding everything correctly it sounds like running unRAID 6 as Domain 0 with either KVM or Xen would be a better approach for me than ESXi but no matter what, graphics passthrough to Windows any guest OS is going to be a problem unless I switch to an AMD video card. My 750 Ti for sure won't work and although it sounds like the ability to passthrough IGP should be coming to Xen soon, for now that isn't supported either.

As for Docker, it sounds preferable to plugins but still limited to headless linux apps like Plex server.

So at least with my current hardware, none of these approaches are going to get me an unRAID server + HTPC in one box -- at least not yet. So probably I'll just keep the new server in "the lab" for now and play around with it as this stuff matures and to see if either Xen or KVM is going to emerge as the preferred hypervisor for unRAID while support for the other falls off, etc.

Either way, at this point I'm settled on going w/ unRAID 6 + eventually either openelec or ubuntu Plex Home Theater or Kodi as guest (once the graphics passthrough is sorted). Because even if the HTPC part never works out exactly as I want, the backup of keeping it headless and using the Docker approach to run Plex and other server apps wouldn't be such a bad option either. I figure if it's going to be a server first and foremost and if unRAID is what I'm comfortable with for that then that's where I should start and the rest can sort itself out from there. Worst case would just be dusting off the NUC to run as HTPC again and I think I'd like getting Windows out of the living room since I prefer more appliance like devices there anyway.
 
#18 ·
FWIW, I wouldn't virtualize a "machine" that needs passthrough, especially an HTPC (graphics). IMO it just defeats the whole purpose of having a server and running something like unRAID. One example is my unRAID machine is "very" loud (lots of fans to keep things cool), there's no way I'd want that anywhere near a screen.

I think it's a better option to for unRAID to just be the backend, and headless, and then using some small, quiet machine as a client. My tentative plan is to virtualize my SageTV machine (which is already headless, only feeding SageTV extenders) onto my unRAID machine, and then use my SageTV extender and one or more Chromeboxes running OpenELEC as my frontend/clients.
 
#19 ·
I would agree with stanger89.
Don't really see the reason to mix these roles as they serve two different purposes.
If it were two server VM's then go for it but mixing these doesn't make sense, even less IMO in a home environment (noise, heat etc.).
In the "datacenter world" with VMWare you would use specialized gfx-cards (e.g. nvidia-grid) to accelerate the gfx-performance in remote desktop sessions (to run CAD software etc.).
But you wouldn't run a video-cable from the server.

If I needed to mix Storage/RAID and HTPC, then I would probably go for the built-in Storage Spaces too keep it simple.
At least if I needed Windows as base OS.
 
#20 ·
I should have mentioned that this server is going to eventually wind up in the living room regardless (on top our media cabinet). In a small house that the wife already has cram packed with her goodies there's no other good place for it except in my office which is a detached studio that is only powerline connected to the house and the router which is also on top the media cabinet. Hence the desire to have the server pull double duty as HTPC if possible, since that's where it's going to sit anyway. Appropriate cooling for effectively silent operation even at full load has already been factored in with Noctua CPU heatsink/cooler + case fans. The Windows server/htpc that I mentioned I will be repurposing as a desktop also is basically a smaller version of what this will be (in a Fractal Design Node 304 case) and currently sitting where the new server will go so I already know there won't be any issue with that.

If I could build an ugly, noisy server in old tower to stuff in a closet (if we actually had closet space I could run ethernet to) then I'd be happy to pocket the savings and wouldn't be thinking of any of this. But you work with what you've got and then try to figure out ways to be as efficient as you can be with the limited space you have.
 
#21 ·
I should have mentioned that this server is going to eventually wind up in the living room regardless (on top our media cabinet). In a small house that the wife already has cram packed with her goodies there's no other good place for it except in my office which is a detached studio that is only powerline connected to the house and the router which is also on top the media cabinet. Hence the desire to have the server pull double duty as HTPC if possible, since that's where it's going to sit anyway. Appropriate cooling for effectively silent operation even at full load has already been factored in with Noctua CPU heatsink/cooler + case fans. The Windows server/htpc that I mentioned I will be repurposing as a desktop also is basically a smaller version of what this will be (in a Fractal Design Node 304 case) and currently sitting where the new server will go so I already know there won't be any issue with that.
The issue with noise isn't the CPU, it's the storage, you need a good number of fans running pretty high to keep 10+ hard drives cool.

But with your use case, I would be looking at just running Windows native with hard drives and FlexRAID, SnapRAID (maybe storage spaces, though I've heard things that would make me want to do a lot more research on that) for redundancy. Your use case just isn't really a good one for unRAID, no need to over complicate things.

Do you have other machines you're going to be serving?
 
#22 ·
Thanks but I've already decided on unRAID and I'm not concerned about cooling the hard drives or the resulting noise. I have some experience w/this already not only w/the current server/htpc I mentioned but w/the first unRAID server I built which is still in use and also in my living room (w/6x 3tb WD Reds in a Fractal 305 case). So I know what I'm working with.

And the more I thought about it, my reasons for preferring windows just don't apply any more. So my decision on the htpc piece of it is down now to whether I even want to play around w/xen or kvm + a guest vm or just go the docker approach for Plex server and other headless apps and go back to my NUC as htpc. Probably the latter but I want to do some more reading before I decide either way.
 
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