*Official* Nvidia Shield Console - HTPC discussion - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 4298 Old 03-07-2015, 11:27 PM - Thread Starter
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*Official* Nvidia Shield Android TV - HTPC discussion

Edit - Passthrough finally being added to Kodi (Krypton)
Jarvis test builds http://forum.kodi.tv/showthread.php?tid=252852
Otherwise Krypton alpha builds should have it as well

Looks like the newest contender from Android TV is something to take note of ~ supposed to arrive May 2015

Official specs from http://shield.nvidia.com/console



NVIDIA Tegra X1 processor
256-core Maxwell with 3GB RAM

4K Ultra-HD ready with 4K playback and capture up to 60 fps (VP9, H265, H264)

7.1 and 5.1 surround sound pass through over HDMI
High-resolution audio playback up to 24-bit/192 kHz over HDMI and USB
High-resolution audio up-sample to 24-bit/192 kHz over USB

16 GB

802.11ac 2x2 MIMO 2.4 GHz and 5 GHz Wi-Fi
Bluetooth 4.1/BLE

Gigabit Ethernet
HDMI 2.0
Two USB 3.0 (Type A)
Micro-USB 2.0
MicroSD slot
IR Receiver (compatible with Logitech Harmony)

SHIELD software upgrades directly from NVIDIA
Gaming FeaturesNVIDIA GRID game streaming service
NVIDIA Share
NVIDIA GameStream

40 W power adapter

Weight and SizeWeight: 23 oz / 654 g
Height: 5.1 in / 130 mm
Width: 8.3 in / 210 mm
Depth: 1.0 in / 25 mm

Operating System: Android TV, Google Cast Ready
Included Apps: PLEX

$199 (with game controller)

Remote - http://shield.nvidia.com/store/remote

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post #2 of 4298 Old 03-07-2015, 11:27 PM - Thread Starter
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Why is this anything more/less exciting than the FireTV, Nexus Player, or other android box?
-the shield console checks a lot of boxes that android hasn't checked previously from a reputable big name company that will support their devices
-specs say hd audio passthrough and up to 24/192 over hdmi/usb
-Google Cast ready (if you live under a rock and haven't heard of this you should, it's stupidly convenient)
-Mediabrowser will soon have an AndroidTV app
-Kodi can be sideloaded in Android TV (and shows up in the leanback launcher)
-4k/hevc
-IR receiver (harmony compatible)
-AndroidTV means remote controllable Netflix and other streaming services are simpler/more manageable
-Both the remote and the controller appear to have a headphone jack (roku style audio through remote???)
-3GB of ram is nice

Of course the catch is these are all paper specs. We won't see how this shakes out with Kodi until people actually have it in their hands. Android 5.0 introduced the potential for refresh rate switching, but the jury is still out as to whether it can be integrated into kodi and whether or not it will ever be 23.976 or just 24.000

On a final, non-htpc note . . . this will be sweet for game streaming. Nvidia gamestream is quite nice. I use it already through limelight on a Nexus Player and a dualshock3 controller. I'd be in for buying this thing and selling off the controller, or buying one without the controller if they offered such a model. It appears from the store that the controller is a $60 value http://shield.nvidia.com/store/console since I have 4 ds3 controller's and sixaxis already works well with androidTV on the Nexus Player, I'd opt for the cheaper price if they offer such a model.
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post #3 of 4298 Old 03-07-2015, 11:28 PM - Thread Starter
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Come release date I'm buying one to replace my Nexus Player (which will get sold/recycled/handed down to a family member). That is unless something more awesome comes along before it's released to knock it off it's current pedestal

The only thing I might miss is that the NP idles around 2-4W with the TV switched off, and I'll have to kill-a-watt this thing to see where it goes to. Big companies and the combination of energy star plus the EU 1-watt initiative seems to have taken care of a lot of excess idle power draw that took a lot of careful effort in the DIY world http://ssj3gohan.tweakblogs.net/blog...-computer.html yay for regulation it seems The Fire, Nexus, RPi and others idle so low it's not even worth considering shutting them off

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post #4 of 4298 Old 03-08-2015, 03:34 PM
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I'm considering buying this, but I really want to see if the other Tegra X1 console - OBox - gets released as it has better specs and allows upgrades.
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post #5 of 4298 Old 03-08-2015, 04:44 PM
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Tegra X1 "TFLOP" claims are a little exaggerated it would seem. It gets a TFLOP in half-precision operations, in single-precision it's half that, or 512 GFLOP. In otherwords its GPU power is less than that of a GT 730 and around the same as an R7 240. Granted it is impressive for the fact that the entire processor has a TDP of only 10W, but it's not like the CPU has Broadwell-class power either.


Though this isn't x86, and it will have customised games I'd imagine (?) I can't imagine it being all that great of a gaming machine on its own, compared with the likes of PS4, XBONE, and modern PC gaming. With GameStream it should be great, though personally I dunno why you wouldn't just have a gaming HTPC in that case.


Seems like more of a niche device at $200, but then Shield has never been popular anyway. With Sony messing up badly on PSTV though (no 1080p? and there's still no Netflix app despite there always being one for Vita--WTF?!?), there's not much competition.


As for Goo..err, I mean Android TV, this is just essentially Google TV round 2 I take it? Google TV was ill-supported and a flat-out failure so let's just make it run on a newer Android OS and call it Android TV? It's great that it's better but you gotta feel sorry for people that adopted Google TV when it started out. I bet those folks aren't going to be too interested--the ol' "fool me once..." bit.
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post #6 of 4298 Old 03-08-2015, 06:43 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by ES_Revenge View Post
Tegra X1 "TFLOP" claims are a little exaggerated it would seem. It gets a TFLOP in half-precision operations, in single-precision it's half that, or 512 GFLOP. In otherwords its GPU power is less than that of a GT 730 and around the same as an R7 240. Granted it is impressive for the fact that the entire processor has a TDP of only 10W, but it's not like the CPU has Broadwell-class power either
I'm in a much more-is-less mood these days. Peripheral integration, low power, plays everything I need to play, easy to tell the wife just press reset and go click the kodi tile . . . that means a lot for me. However, in terms of pure prowess Nvidia is the most impressive arm SoC maker IMO. Intel has taken ages to move into this arena, but they aren't in trouble by any means. I prefer not DIYing every software aspect of my HTPCs anymore, and intel can do a lot with OE or windows but there's a crap ton more you have to do on your own after that point

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Originally Posted by ES_Revenge View Post
Though this isn't x86, and it will have customised games I'd imagine (?) I can't imagine it being all that great of a gaming machine on its own, compared with the likes of PS4, XBONE, and modern PC gaming. With GameStream it should be great, though personally I dunno why you wouldn't just have a gaming HTPC in that case.
I can tell you why for me. Here's a short list
  • My most powerful cpu was in my server (3770k)
  • It made sense to put the GPU in there as well after I found out about game stream
  • I had the 660 in it's own gaming box before
  • (GamingHTPC)-more to setup
  • (GamingHTPC)-software switching is not always straightforward
  • (GamingHTPC)-advanced launcher or the Kodi Steam Launcher will take you "most of the way" but there are still times where you have to deal with Windows and your frontend not being full screen

With AndroidTV and gamestream, the whole interface is remote controllable making it much more robust for the bedroom or living room TV when I'm not home and the wife needs something to reset, etc. The input is handled really well

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Originally Posted by ES_Revenge View Post
Seems like more of a niche device at $200, but then Shield has never been popular anyway. With Sony messing up badly on PSTV though (no 1080p? and there's still no Netflix app despite there always being one for Vita--WTF?!?), there's not much competition.
Well, there's remote play for PS4 on the awesome upcoming xperia android devices

Even with the shield not being popular it was a powerful tablet and Nvidia sticks around supporting it much better than other android manufacturers. Manufacturer support is a sticking point on existing 4k capable SoC android sets from the likes of amlogic and rockchip

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Originally Posted by ES_Revenge View Post
As for Goo..err, I mean Android TV, this is just essentially Google TV round 2 I take it? Google TV was ill-supported and a flat-out failure so let's just make it run on a newer Android OS and call it Android TV? It's great that it's better but you gotta feel sorry for people that adopted Google TV when it started out. I bet those folks aren't going to be too interested--the ol' "fool me once..." bit.
Not as much. Google TV came at a time when android was just trying to establish itself. It was more a google device than an android device. The focus on android tv vs chromeTV or something similar is that android is supposed to be central. Now that it's the dominant mobile platform that brings a lot to the table

Some sticking points on android as an HTPC have been
  • Poor manufacturer support (after launch)
  • HD audio
  • Refresh rate switching
  • 4k
  • HEVC, HW deinterlace, VC1

Nvidia in the specs is ticking what looks like 4 of those 5 boxes, and Android 5.0 is supposed to have the potential to check the 5th. VC1 and deinterlacing . . . the jury is still out. Even HEVC is not necessarily going to work in 3rd party apps like Kodi until they really get their hands on it

For the benefits of android as an HTPC you get
  • Google Cast
  • Netflix
  • Amazon Video
  • Pandora
  • Spotify
  • Etc

At first, some might have to be sideloaded. There will likely even be workarounds dedicated to adding the leanback intent to the manifest of popular apps to get them to show up in the TV interface. http://forum.xda-developers.com/nexu...store-t2976754

Mediabrowser is going to have an android tv app as well

Bluetooth is simpler, updates are less intrusive, there are less moving parts between turning the box on and getting to your front end, voice control, headphones audio through your remote The list goes on

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post #7 of 4298 Old 03-08-2015, 07:10 PM
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I can tell you why for me. Here's a short list
  • My most powerful cpu was in my server (3770k)
  • It made sense to put the GPU in there as well after I found out about game stream
  • I had the 660 in it's own gaming box before
  • (GamingHTPC)-more to setup
  • (GamingHTPC)-software switching is not always straightforward
  • (GamingHTPC)-advanced launcher or the Kodi Steam Launcher will take you "most of the way" but there are still times where you have to deal with Windows and your frontend not being full screen
Ah I see. In your case this does actually make a lot of sense.



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Well, there's remote play for PS4 on the awesome upcoming xperia android devices
You don't say, eh? Will be funny if their mobile division outdoes the PS division at their own game (pardon the pun). I mean imagine having an Xperia phone or Tablet that remote plays better than Vita and PSTV? Might be time for the PS division (for once) to give their heads a shake. Truth be told they are holding Sony together at the moment but still, the whole PSTV thing seems very poorly done. Seems like they want people to blame Netflix for PSTV not having Netflix but as said I don't see how it makes sense if what is essentially the same hardware can run it fine (the Vita). It's not just Netflix either, they've also borked Netflix and other PS4 content over-remote-play from PS4 to PSTV so you can't even do that anymore (they blocked it in a fw update). It's like, in the words of AVGN, "What were they thinking?!?!"


Take the most simple/basic/standard "internet feature" for consumer electronics akin to BD players, TVs, tablets, etc. (Netflix) and make sure the PSTV specifically can't do it. Then what do you got left? Vita games? Really? That's what they're going with? I even have a Vita myself and I've probably used the thing only a dozen times or so. Sure there's PS4 remote but that limits you to PS4 owners; there's also some other streaming services but not having "the main one" is a sure put-off for most folks I'd imagine. Anyway this is a whole other story, but seriously Sony needs to either get real with the PSTV or just drop the idea entirely.


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Originally Posted by Dark_Slayer View Post
Some sticking points on android as an HTPC have been
  • Poor manufacturer support (after launch)
  • HD audio
  • Refresh rate switching
  • 4k
  • HEVC, HW deinterlace, VC1
Nvidia in the specs is ticking what looks like 4 of those 5 boxes, and Android 5.0 is supposed to have the potential to check the 5th. VC1 and deinterlacing . . . the jury is still out. Even HEVC is not necessarily going to work in 3rd party apps like Kodi until they really get their hands on it
And, in fairness, some of those things can't even be done by PCs all that well at the moment. There's GTX 960 but nothing else yet.


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At first, some might have to be sideloaded. There will likely even be workarounds dedicated to adding the leanback intent to the manifest of popular apps to get them to show up in the TV interface. http://forum.xda-developers.com/nexu...store-t2976754
Sideloading would require rooting though, correct? Will rooting interfere with native Shield gaming though? I know some apps won't work right on rooted devices because of "security" (aka DRM) issues, but don't know about Shield.

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Bluetooth is simpler, updates are less intrusive, there are less moving parts between turning the box on and getting to your front end, voice control, headphones audio through your remote The list goes on
Confused about this last part...BT is simpler...than what? How is Bluetooth going to be used here differently than with other devices?
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post #8 of 4298 Old 03-09-2015, 03:03 AM - Thread Starter
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You don't say, eh? Will be funny if their mobile division outdoes the PS division at their own game (pardon the pun). I mean imagine having an Xperia phone or Tablet that remote plays better than Vita and PSTV? Might be time for the PS division (for once) to give their heads a shake. Truth be told they are holding Sony together at the moment but still, the whole PSTV thing seems very poorly done. Seems like they want people to blame Netflix for PSTV not having Netflix but as said I don't see how it makes sense if what is essentially the same hardware can run it fine (the Vita). It's not just Netflix either, they've also borked Netflix and other PS4 content over-remote-play from PS4 to PSTV so you can't even do that anymore (they blocked it in a fw update). It's like, in the words of AVGN, "What were they thinking?!?!"
Well, the PSP concept is kind of around for nostalgia these days. The writing was on the wall when apple and android's foot hold established themselves in a market where people ended up buying $600 and $700 devices on a $100 or $200 contract. Then comparatively (to the consumer) a $250 portable gets pretty difficult to succeed. Specs can't compete, so really it makes the most sense for them to roll everything into the more "adoptable" purchase pricing of a tablet or smartphone (and let their fans get double duty rather than just a portable gaming device)

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Sideloading would require rooting though, correct? Will rooting interfere with native Shield gaming though? I know some apps won't work right on rooted devices because of "security" (aka DRM) issues, but don't know about Shield.
No sideloading doesn't require root. Also, rooting doesn't usually interfere with anything other than obscure things most people don't use anyway (like a standard recovery 'download' mode that needs to be exploited to gain root access).

The only reason I have the Nexus player rooted is to run PS3 dualshock controllers over bluetooth and run the root version of the limelight app. The root version of the limelight app will be a total non-factor on the shield since gamestream will be baked in. If the DS3 controllers work without root then I won't even bother. Kodi runs just fine without root

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Confused about this last part...BT is simpler...than what? How is Bluetooth going to be used here differently than with other devices?
Well, sometimes it works (mostly on windows) sometimes it doesn't. If it doesn't work you definitely have to leave the frontend to toggle with stuff. It's not always straightforward in OpenELEC

Overall I've had far less issues with bluetooth on android, because it's hardware integrated

Not a big deal for an HTPC, which doesn't really need bluetooth. More important to me for a gaming htpc. Bluetooth gamepads are what I like, no stretching wires across my living room
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post #9 of 4298 Old 03-09-2015, 05:23 AM
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Nvidia Shield

Looking forward to this device. I'm an early adopter and have Sony's first 4K TV which doesn't stream Nextflix or Youtube in 4K. This box fixes that problem in a cheaper way than buying Sony's new 4K media box for $700.
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If this can do copy-protected cable card is the search for the ultimate all in one HTPC over? http://www.silicondust.com/about/news/





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Then comparatively (to the consumer) a $250 portable gets pretty difficult to succeed. Specs can't compete, so really it makes the most sense for them to roll everything into the more "adoptable" purchase pricing of a tablet or smartphone (and let their fans get double duty rather than just a portable gaming device)
In the Vita's defense it's not a PSP (though then again at least PSP had TV out on its own, lol) and it's not $250 these days either. The Vita itself actually seems like it would be a better TV device than the PSTV despite the hardware being essentially the same. Just a royal f-up by Sony here, on both fronts. Vita is actually better than PSTV for TV, but has no way to output to a TV; PSTV just becomes a useless product and comes off as a money grab more than anything else.


Because the Vita can do some "tablet stuff" itself, it's actually not that bad a device for uses other than gaming. The problem is it's just not well enough supported by Sony--total shame really. Instead of making a viable "ecosystem" between products, like Crapple does, Sony puts little effort into Vita and just lets PSTV fall flat on its face. It's nice that the PS4 is doing well for them, but why focus only on one product?


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No sideloading doesn't require root.
Oh okay, fair enough then.

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Well, sometimes it works (mostly on windows) sometimes it doesn't. If it doesn't work you definitely have to leave the frontend to toggle with stuff. It's not always straightforward in OpenELEC
I'm still not understanding what it is that works or doesn't though, lol Just general function including streaming, or something else?
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I'm still not understanding what it is that works or doesn't though, lol Just general function including streaming, or something else?
Pairing my Bluetooth ds3 game pads to a USB Bluetooth receiver and using the ds3 as a controller for my games
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If this can do copy-protected cable card is the search for the ultimate all in one HTPC over? http://www.silicondust.com/about/news/

I wonder if they could get (or would need) CableLabs certifications
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Without MPEG 2 support, I'm not sure how well Live TV will work via the official Android 'Live TV'/HDHomerun app on this. Currently, unless you have an HDHomerun Extend, TV doesn't work too well (for anything above SD) on the Nexus Player (which doesn't support MPEG 2). On the ADT-1 (which does support MPEG 2), Live TV works fine with any HDHomerun; in SD or HD.

It's possible the Shield is powerful enough to do live transcoding seamlessly on the unit itself, negating the need for MPEG 2 support - but we have no way of knowing that yet.

It's also possible they support MPEG 2, and didn't list it, but I doubt that.

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Without MPEG 2 support, I'm not sure how well Live TV will work via the official Android 'Live TV'/HDHomerun app on this. Currently, unless you have an HDHomerun Extend, TV doesn't work too well (for anything above SD) on the Nexus Player (which doesn't support MPEG 2). On the ADT-1 (which does support MPEG 2), Live TV works fine with any HDHomerun; in SD or HD.

It's possible the Shield is powerful enough to do live transcoding seamlessly on the unit itself, negating the need for MPEG 2 support - but we have no way of knowing that yet.

It's also possible they support MPEG 2, and didn't list it, but I doubt that.
This time last year I would have said "Don't worry, SD is coming out with an H.264 transcoding version of the Prime, so it won't be an issue."

Currently I'm skeptical of the release of that device.

That said, it does seem like the pieces to a non-WMC based protected content system are slowly falling into place.

RAID protection is only for failed drives. That's it. It's no replacement for a proper backup.
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And the 6 tuner Prime!

Has the recording side been figured out yet? I'm not yet convinced that Android TV will bring anything new to the table for recording protected content.
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post #17 of 4298 Old 03-09-2015, 07:12 PM
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This time last year I would have said "Don't worry, SD is coming out with an H.264 transcoding version of the Prime, so it won't be an issue."

Currently I'm skeptical of the release of that device.

That said, it does seem like the pieces to a non-WMC based protected content system are slowly falling into place.
Luckily I got myself am ADT-1 right when they were announced. It's all I use for Live Tv anymore. I just need the rest of the apps released for it I need/use, and it will be my main box (it already is for the most part). A DVR app, and I can kick WMC to the curb.

ADT-1 is what I would still recommend atm (for Android TV devices, if you need TV), but if you didn't sign up for one initially after Google I/O, you gotta go to eBay now for one.

The Shield's local game streaming you can already do with Limelight on any Android TV device, so that takes that advantage away from it IMO. You can't play the native games or subscribe to it's game streaming service - so if that's what draws anyone to it, then the Shield is for you.

As for its 4k capability, if you currently are looking at buying a new TV and decide to go 4k, then it's worth looking at. If you currently have a 1080p TV, I think it would be dumb to get this for future proofing, as by the time you're ready to upgrade, there will be better and cheaper 4k STB units (even Android TV ones - if it survives, lol) on the market.
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post #18 of 4298 Old 03-09-2015, 08:50 PM
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Pairing my Bluetooth ds3 game pads to a USB Bluetooth receiver and using the ds3 as a controller for my games
Ahhh that. It all makes sense now! I thought this was possible without rooting at all? I know I'm supposed to be able to do that on my Android tablet (I never tried) but then again it is a Sony tablet (if that makes a difference). I do have to connect it via USB first though (just as with Playstation). I've never actually done it though 'cause I've never played games on Android.
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I just use a wireless 360 adapter for pc and wireless 360 controller for gaming on my Google ADT-1 via Limelight. Works natively w/o root.
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post #20 of 4298 Old 03-09-2015, 09:35 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by staknhalo View Post
Without MPEG 2 support, I'm not sure how well Live TV will work via the official Android 'Live TV'/HDHomerun app on this. Currently, unless you have an HDHomerun Extend, TV doesn't work too well (for anything above SD) on the Nexus Player (which doesn't support MPEG 2). On the ADT-1 (which does support MPEG 2), Live TV works fine with any HDHomerun; in SD or HD
Live TV works fine on the Nexus Player (OTA HD). It just doesn't deinterlace. Neither does the adt-1 or firetv. The Shield may or may not, but if puny SoCs like the tegra4 and snapdragon 600 can play mpeg2 up to 1080i then it would be beyond senseless that a much more powerful SoC like the X1 wouldn't be able to. It'll likely have the grunt to software deinterlace

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The Shield's local game streaming you can already do with Limelight on any Android TV device, so that takes that advantage away from it IMO
This is correct, but not entirely correct. The advantage of the shield will be the same as the advantage of tegra4 devices and the Nexus Player from XDA's Limelight thread
Quote:
Tier 1 devices:
Tegra 4 - Nvidia Shield - 5 ms - 1080p60 supported
Intel Atom/Bay Trail/Moorefield - Nexus Player - 8 ms - 1080p60 supported
Tegra K1 - Nexus 9 - 15 ms - 1080p60 supported
Tegra 3 - OUYA and Nexus 7 (2012) - 17 ms - 1080p60 supported
Broadcom VideoCore IV - Fire TV Stick - 20 ms - 720p60/1080p30 supported

Tier 2 devices:
Snapdragon 801 - HTC One M8 GPE - 40 ms - 1080p60 supported
Snapdragon 800 - Nexus 5 - 40 ms - 1080p60 supported

Tier 3 devices:
Snapdragon 600 - Fire TV - 50 ms - 720p60/1080p30 supported
Snapdragon S4 Pro (rebranded 600) - Nexus 7 (2013) - 50 ms 720p60/1080p30 supported
http://forum.xda-developers.com/show....php?t=2505510

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I just use a wireless 360 adapter for pc and wireless 360 controller for gaming on my Google ADT-1 via Limelight. Works natively w/o root.
Does the green ring on the controller ever stop flashing?

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Originally Posted by ES_Revenge View Post
Ahhh that. It all makes sense now! I thought this was possible without rooting at all? I know I'm supposed to be able to do that on my Android tablet (I never tried) but then again it is a Sony tablet (if that makes a difference). I do have to connect it via USB first though (just as with Playstation). I've never actually done it though 'cause I've never played games on Android.
You can connect via USB and control it without root, but to use it as a bluetooth gamepad root is required
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post #21 of 4298 Old 03-09-2015, 09:53 PM
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And the 6 tuner Prime!

Has the recording side been figured out yet? I'm not yet convinced that Android TV will bring anything new to the table for recording protected content.

This is the elephant in the room. Without this, it will never be a complete, no compromise HT box.
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post #22 of 4298 Old 03-09-2015, 09:56 PM
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You can connect via USB and control it without root, but to use it as a bluetooth gamepad root is required
I actually meant just to pair it (just like with an actual Playstation), after that you can use it via BT. Root is not required as far as I know. Again I haven't tried it myself but it's supposed to work like that. This could be because it's an Xperia table though, and it already having support for PS3 controllers natively? Stupid thing is it doesn't have support for USB (devices) natively, lol, because it has a proprietary port on it. Instead you need a rare cable that has an Type-A port on the end (which I don't have) or a dock (which I do have) to make it work.


BTW if you haven't figured it out by now it's an Xperia Tablet S--last tablet designed by VAIO Group before they handed tablets over to the much-more-competent-at-Android Sony Mobile (Ericsson) Group. Granted, it does everything/more I want it to, so I'm not really complaining.


I have a lot of Sony products actually, LOL, if you haven't guessed that by now either
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post #23 of 4298 Old 03-09-2015, 10:14 PM - Thread Starter
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This is the elephant in the room. Without this, it will never be a complete, no compromise HT box.
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Originally Posted by dfkimbro View Post
I wonder if they could get (or would need) CableLabs certifications
Two ways of not needing cablelabs certification (actually both are the same way). Use an existing "certified" DRM. Microsoft already went and got PlayReady DRM approved. For the "Project Connect" style DLNA tuner sharing from and HDHomerun Prime it only needs to support DTCP-IP like the PS3 does

Android and iOS already have the potential for playready
Quote:
The new PlayReady Client SDKs for Android and iOS support industry standards such as the MPEG-DASH streaming format. In addition the SDKs provide features for Live TV implementations including key rotation, blackout support, and advertising insertion.
  • Android and iOS platforms
  • Includes a basic reference media player to build a final app
  • Smooth Streaming (VoD/Live)
  • MPEG-DASH (ISOBFF, VoD/Live)
  • Key rotation and blackouts
  • Support for HLS on iOS (VoD)
  • ND-Receiver functionality on iOS and Android clients
http://www.microsoft.com/playready/f...ntOptions.aspx
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post #24 of 4298 Old 03-09-2015, 10:37 PM
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Live TV works fine on the Nexus Player (OTA HD). It just doesn't deinterlace. Neither does the adt-1 or firetv. The Shield may or may not, but if puny SoCs like the tegra4 and snapdragon 600 can play mpeg2 up to 1080i then it would be beyond senseless that a much more powerful SoC like the X1 wouldn't be able to. It'll likely have the grunt to software deinterlace
I've heard plenty of complaints on the SD forums, XDA and the G+ group I'm in about random glitching/skipping/artifacting of video and/or audio on the Nexus Player when using a non-transcoding tuner. General consensus is it's the lack of MPEG 2 seeing as it's also seen on the Fire TV, and not the ADT-1 (when network related issues are ruled out). And the former 2 lack Mpeg 2 while the latter supports it.

I mean, I'm sure it works fine for you if you say so - but I wouldn't go buy myself, nor recommend anyone go buy a device without MPEG 2 support if they wanna watch MPEG 2 content (especially if you don't have a tuner or machine in the middle that can transcode before sending to said device). Get the right tool for the job IMO. If the Shield is shown to be able to transcode in real time without issue by the vast majority of users (you know someone will always have an issue) - then I'll change my tune on that. I'm just not seeing that around the web with the Nexus Player.

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This is correct, but not entirely correct. The advantage of the shield will be the same as the advantage of tegra4 devices and the Nexus Player from XDA's Limelight thread
Yeah, so just make sure you have a device with low latency, which all the current Android TV units ( all 2 of them! ) on the market seem to have. We can't test the others until they're out. I'm not talking about tablets or phones (or the OUYA or Fire Stick). I'm comparing apples to apples - Android TV devices to Android TV devices. So the Shield still really doesn't have any advantage for local game streaming against the current ATV devices.


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Does the green ring on the controller ever stop flashing?
Nope. On both wired or wireless it will always blink. I don't look at the controller when gaming though, or hold it within my FOV. I dunno why anyone would be looking right at the controller when gaming though, but if you hold it within your FOV I can see how it would be an slight annoyance. I prefer the feel/layout of the 360 controller though, so I would just color it in or put some electrical tape over it if I noticed it/it bothered me

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post #25 of 4298 Old 03-09-2015, 11:37 PM
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I mean, I'm sure it works fine for you if you say so - but I wouldn't go buy myself, nor recommend anyone go buy a device without MPEG 2 support if they wanna watch MPEG 2 content (especially if you don't have a tuner or machine in the middle that can transcode before sending to said device). Get the right tool for the job IMO. If the Shield is shown to be able to transcode in real time without issue by the vast majority of users (you know someone will always have an issue) - then I'll change my tune on that. I'm just not seeing that around the web with the Nexus Player.
These things can't do MPEG-2? That seems pretty old-skool and basic now (even at HD resolutions), so seems a bit odd they're incapable.

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Yeah, so just make sure you have a device with low latency, which all the current Android TV units ( all 2 of them! ) on the market seem to have. We can't test the others until they're out. I'm not talking about tablets or phones (or the OUYA or Fire Stick). I'm comparing apples to apples - Android TV devices to Android TV devices. So the Shield still really doesn't have any advantage for local game streaming against the current ATV devices.
In fairness, the general consumer is not going to be comparing "Android TV device" specifically, only against other similar devices. They're just going to be comparing "streaming box A" to "streaming box B" in terms of capabilities, performance, and extras. To that end, the Shield does have advantages/extras over other competing devices, albeit at a price premium.

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Nope. On both wired or wireless it will always blink. I don't look at the controller when gaming though, or hold it within my FOV. I dunno why anyone would be looking right at the controller when gaming though, but if you hold it within your FOV I can see how it would be an slight annoyance. I prefer the feel/layout of the 360 controller though, so I would just color it in or put some electrical tape over it if I noticed it/it bothered me
360 controller that always blinks yet works anyway? I always thought it had to have one segment on solid to be in linked/operating mode. I thought blinking meant disconnected/searching. But then I've only ever used it in Windows. So if it blinks all the time, I guess you can't determine (visually) player 1 from player 2, in multi-player?


As for controller ergonomics, I have no real complaints about the 360 controller but... I use the 360 controller (PC gaming) more than PS3 controllers (PS3 gaming). Every time I pick up a PS3 controller though, I remember how light it is and how much "more comfortable" it is than the 360 controller. I'm not sure if this is just a "grass is always greener" effect or if really the PS3 controller is just better to me.

Last edited by ES_Revenge; 03-09-2015 at 11:41 PM.
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post #26 of 4298 Old 03-09-2015, 11:56 PM
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These things can't do MPEG-2? That seems pretty old-skool and basic now (even at HD resolutions), so seems a bit odd they're incapable.
They don't have native MPEG 2 support (it's antiquated in today's internet streaming world; that's why fewer and fewer devices support it), which means they (the Nexus Player and Fire TV) are transcoding in real time (if you don't have the HDHR Extend), the stream from Mpeg 2 to Mpeg 4 (the Extend will transcode the stream on the tuner, and pump out Mpeg 4 to device to play back natively). When someone experiences playback issues on these devices, and all possible networking issues have been ruled out, it points to the fact the devices aren't powerful enough to transcode properly/reliably the signal - or just for some reason specific to the device aren't doing so. The ADT-1 has native Mpeg 2 support, so it plays the stream directly from the tuner, with no manipulation required. The Nvida Shield box is very powerful on paper, so it might be powerful enough to transcode an Mpeg 2 stream properly/reliably as I mentioned; but we will have to wait for real world results to be sure. There have been plenty of devices that on paper, were good enough to do 'x', but then failed to do so.

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Originally Posted by ES_Revenge View Post
In fairness, the general consumer is not going to be comparing "Android TV device" specifically, only against other similar devices. They're just going to be comparing "streaming box A" to "streaming box B" in terms of capabilities, performance, and extras. To that end, the Shield does have advantages/extras over other competing devices, albeit at a price premium.
Sure, but look what he quoted me on. In all fairness I was specifically was talking about the Shield's benefit over other Android TV devices. I was comparing Android TV to Android TV from the get-go. Other people wanna compare it to other things, fine. That's not what I was doing or talking about though.

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360 controller that always blinks yet works anyway? I always thought it had to have one segment on solid to be in linked/operating mode. I thought blinking meant disconnected/searching. But then I've only ever used it in Windows. So if it blinks all the time, I guess you can't determine (visually) player 1 from player 2, in multi-player?
Yeah, it constantly blinks, but works just fine. I just tried pairing 2 controllers for you. They both work fine (as expected), but the whole ring blinks on both. So no, there would be no way to distinguish controller 1 from controller 2 by looking at the ring.

Last edited by staknhalo; 03-10-2015 at 12:07 AM.
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post #27 of 4298 Old 03-10-2015, 12:24 AM
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Two ways of not needing cablelabs certification (actually both are the same way). Use an existing "certified" DRM. Microsoft already went and got PlayReady DRM approved. For the "Project Connect" style DLNA tuner sharing from and HDHomerun Prime it only needs to support DTCP-IP like the PS3 does

Android and iOS already have the potential for playready

http://www.microsoft.com/playready/f...ntOptions.aspx
Android has supported PlayReady for a while now, but nothing has come of it yet, which is why I'm not holding my breath for anything now to support the recording of protected channels. SD and/or Ceton may have investigated a WMC replacement such as Android with protected content recording, and ran into a road block other than cost, since I'm sure there are a few people willing to pay (or maybe the market is too small now ). Or maybe I'm just being impatient and they're actually working on it
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post #28 of 4298 Old 03-10-2015, 12:34 AM
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I wouldn't put my money on Ceton, all they do anymore is update drivers for their tuners it seems.

SD is at least trying to branch out to other platforms and keep their business/products alive

See here: http://www.silicondust.com/products/hdhomerun/prime/
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post #29 of 4298 Old 03-10-2015, 12:36 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by staknhalo View Post
I've heard plenty of complaints on the SD forums, XDA and the G+ group I'm in about random glitching/skipping/artifacting of video and/or audio on the Nexus Player when using a non-transcoding tuner. General consensus is it's the lack of MPEG 2 seeing as it's also seen on the Fire TV, and not the ADT-1 (when network related issues are ruled out). And the former 2 lack Mpeg 2 while the latter supports it.

I mean, I'm sure it works fine for you if you say so - but I wouldn't go buy myself, nor recommend anyone go buy a device without MPEG 2 support if they wanna watch MPEG 2 content (especially if you don't have a tuner or machine in the middle that can transcode before sending to said device). Get the right tool for the job IMO. If the Shield is shown to be able to transcode in real time without issue by the vast majority of users (you know someone will always have an issue) - then I'll change my tune on that. I'm just not seeing that around the web with the Nexus Player
Both the fire and the nexus can play mpeg2 in my experience. I just had to turn deinterlace from "auto" to "off"

I only played a few minutes, but I was able to do this with my Nexus7 as well

I have been watching NBC OTA HD for about 20min now with no skips. In fairness, I have my Kodi settings to cache everything and doubled the cachemembuffer with advanced settings (as well as turning off deinterlace for all videos). I have the cachemembuffer settings that way for intermittent problems in H264 high bitrate playback 4-5 min into the video.

I also agree that the best android tv box right now is the ADT1. I would rate them ADT-1 > Nexus Player > Fire TV though the last two are a wash with me just not preferring the Fire interface. However, I have purchased and rooted two FireTVs and they transcode from my server at my relative's houses. I put FiredTV as the default launcher on both with a few extra apps like Netflix, Youtube, Pandora, and Mediabrowser on the main screen.

That being said, the ADT-1 isn't really a great recommendation in my mind because of it's ebay only purchase. That kind of leaves my current best recommendation to "wait" which kind of always seems like the hardware recommendation these days. I think the ForgeTV will come in above the ADT-1 and the Shield will be ranked above that IMO

Also, I haven't seen a whitepaper on the X1. For reference, just because the whitepaper says it's supported doesn't mean Kodi ends up being able to play it back. For instance, the tegra 4 http://www.nvidia.com/docs/IO/116757...er_FINALv2.pdf found in the ADT-1 lists VC1 as supported but just try playing back a full rip of Dark Knight on the ADT-1. I've used the ADT-1 as well

I don't want to jump the gun on it, but the power that SoCs are getting to means that hardware decoding support for MPEG2 is going to be all-but-irrelevant for boxes released in 2015. It's just not that hard for them to software decode

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These things can't do MPEG-2? That seems pretty old-skool and basic now (even at HD resolutions), so seems a bit odd they're incapable
It's in hardware decode whether they are supported or not. Whether or not they can software decode and play the video back smoothly is something you have to try yourself and trust in others. For me, both the FireTV and Nexus have been able to software decode my OTA HD MPEG2 channels and recordings. However, if I turn on deinterlace (software only) it stutters every 3-4 seconds. This means the PQ is certainly not as great as an interlace-capable chipset. We'll have to see if the 2015 arm boxes can software decode and deinterlace without stutter
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post #30 of 4298 Old 03-10-2015, 12:54 AM
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Both the fire and the nexus can play mpeg2 in my experience. I just had to turn deinterlace from "auto" to "off"

I only played a few minutes, but I was able to do this with my Nexus7 as well

I have been watching NBC OTA HD for about 20min now with no skips. In fairness, I have my Kodi settings to cache everything and doubled the cachemembuffer with advanced settings (as well as turning off deinterlace for all videos). I have the cachemembuffer settings that way for intermittent problems in H264 high bitrate playback 4-5 min into the video.
It also could be because you're going from the tuner>HTPC>device; instead of tuner>device. The HTPC being in the chain could be acting as a buffer of sorts. And then like you said, you also have Kodi/the HTPC caching (so it def is, just possibly more so).

I was specifically talking about using the HDHomerun app on the Fire TV or Nexus Player (well, I use the Live TV app on the ADT-1 actually). If you install the HDHomerun app on the Nexus Player, the native Live TV app will then show up. I recommend that for interface/usage over the actual HDHomerun app on Android TV.

When you got some free time, try that. Even if you don't use it day to day over Kodi, it's good to know what options you have/don't have, what works/doesn't.

Of course, this is all assuming you have a SD tuner; if not, you can only do it the way you currently are.

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For instance, the tegra 4 http://www.nvidia.com/docs/IO/116757...er_FINALv2.pdf found in the ADT-1 lists VC1 as supported but just try playing back a full rip of Dark Knight on the ADT-1. I've used the ADT-1 as well
I don't have any VC1 rips to try off hand; I re-encode all my BRs to Mpeg 4 .m4vs for broader device capability/native playback. The next time I have a VC1 disc to rip I'll try it via Plex, ES File Explorer and VLC on the ADT-1.

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That being said, the ADT-1 isn't really a great recommendation in my mind because of it's ebay only purchase.
I can't disagree there; but like you say, it's the only way to currently get one. Lucky for me, I had the foresight to sign up immediately for one when it went live during I/O, and got sent one for free by Google. That doesn't help anyone now though, I just felt like patting myself on the back for doing so *gloat*

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