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post #211 of 238 Old 03-10-2017, 05:18 PM
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Originally Posted by burton14e7 View Post
Hmm, that is food for thought. I was reading a lot about MPC-HC or BE 4k playback with MadVR being really good but it would appear I would want to use a NUC if I wanted to go that route based on your answer.
One thing I did not mention was the cost of ownership. A fully-loaded Kaby Lake NUC - that means the high-end HDMI 2/Thunderbolt i5/i7 models with 32GB RAM, a 250GB M.2 SSD, and a 2TB 2.5-inch HDD for local file storage - is going to cost you as much as a few SHIELD units, be it a regular or Pro model. The same goes for the lower-end models with HDMI 2, though you can cut corners and use less RAM to save money. Also, the GPU was not designed for 4K, so it uses a conversion chip to get HDMI 2 and it's very buggy at this point. We also don't know how well the GPU can handle things like HDR because it hasn't landed as a feature on Windows 10 yet. Given those things, you can build an SFF HTPC with better components for less money, especially since Intel has given massive price cuts to Kaby Lake desktop CPUs to tempt purchasers away from AMD's new Ryzen CPUs. As NUC's use low-powered mobile CPUs, they are not flexible in pricing since they are strictly OEM products. AMD's Raven Ridge APUs will hit in a few months and those will be superior to any NUC or similar product because they will have the latest HDMI and DisplayPort options for media PC enthusiasts, so you may want to wait for that to build an HTPC around.

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post #212 of 238 Old 03-10-2017, 06:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LexInVA View Post
One thing I did not mention was the cost of ownership. A fully-loaded Kaby Lake NUC - that means the high-end HDMI 2/Thunderbolt i5/i7 models with 32GB RAM, a 250GB M.2 SSD, and a 2TB 2.5-inch HDD for local file storage - is going to cost you as much as a few SHIELD units, be it a regular or Pro model. The same goes for the lower-end models with HDMI 2, though you can cut corners and use less RAM to save money. Also, the GPU was not designed for 4K, so it uses a conversion chip to get HDMI 2 and it's very buggy at this point. We also don't know how well the GPU can handle things like HDR because it hasn't landed as a feature on Windows 10 yet. Given those things, you can build an SFF HTPC with better components for less money, especially since Intel has given massive price cuts to Kaby Lake desktop CPUs to tempt purchasers away from AMD's new Ryzen CPUs. As NUC's use low-powered mobile CPUs, they are not flexible in pricing since they are strictly OEM products. AMD's Raven Ridge APUs will hit in a few months and those will be superior to any NUC or similar product because they will have the latest HDMI and DisplayPort options for media PC enthusiasts, so you may want to wait for that to build an HTPC around.
Solid points and thanks for the additional info. My full blown htpc will be up in my media room so I'm looking for something for the family room that can play the 4k MKV HEVC files from the HTPC, everything is wired with cat6. One day I'll build a NAS but my HTPC has 8 drive bays so I won't need it for a long time. I was pretty sold on the shield pro until I saw this thread. Ideally I would want whatever I choose to support HDR for when I put an LG OLED in the family room. The new house isn't even built yet so I have time to wait for more mature products and maybe I'll be able to return to AMD after a 15 year hiatus!
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post #213 of 238 Old 03-10-2017, 06:31 PM
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Originally Posted by burton14e7 View Post
Oh wow, that pretty much solidifies my decision that I should go for one of the kaby lake NUCs. Thanks for sharing your observation.
I should add many are more than happy with the Shield... if that's the only "no go" you might want to try it out for yourself.

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post #214 of 238 Old 03-16-2017, 08:42 AM
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AnandTech has reviewed one of the new Kaby Lake NUC models from Gigabyte....

http://www.anandtech.com/show/11198/...ke-brix-review

A solid product, but the cost of ownership is - as is the case with all high-end NUC models - too high to justify buying it, unless the expense simply isn't a problem or you happen to have suitable RAM and SSD already in your parts collection. This model has HDMI 2.0 via the conversion chip and keeps DisplayPort output - Intel has done away with it on all their Kaby Lake NUCs - and packs no Thunderbolt 3, so it will come in as less expensive than the equivalent Intel NUC, which has Thunderbolt 3 and HDMI 2.0 tacked together. It also has a full-size SDXC slot, if you need that for any DSLRs or video cameras.
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post #215 of 238 Old 03-16-2017, 05:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LexInVA View Post
One thing I did not mention was the cost of ownership. A fully-loaded Kaby Lake NUC - that means the high-end HDMI 2/Thunderbolt i5/i7 models with 32GB RAM, a 250GB M.2 SSD, and a 2TB 2.5-inch HDD for local file storage - is going to cost you as much as a few SHIELD units, be it a regular or Pro model. The same goes for the lower-end models with HDMI 2, though you can cut corners and use less RAM to save money. Also, the GPU was not designed for 4K, so it uses a conversion chip to get HDMI 2 and it's very buggy at this point. We also don't know how well the GPU can handle things like HDR because it hasn't landed as a feature on Windows 10 yet. Given those things, you can build an SFF HTPC with better components for less money, especially since Intel has given massive price cuts to Kaby Lake desktop CPUs to tempt purchasers away from AMD's new Ryzen CPUs. As NUC's use low-powered mobile CPUs, they are not flexible in pricing since they are strictly OEM products. AMD's Raven Ridge APUs will hit in a few months and those will be superior to any NUC or similar product because they will have the latest HDMI and DisplayPort options for media PC enthusiasts, so you may want to wait for that to build an HTPC around.
Sorry if this has been answered earlier, but couple of questions related to the AMD chips -
1] So far, afaik, there has been no support announced for Netflix 4K or other HDR content for the AMD chipset. Is that right?
2] Will these AMD chips have a GPU too like the Intel ones? And, will it work with MadVR?
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post #216 of 238 Old 03-16-2017, 05:50 PM
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Originally Posted by the_jaguar View Post
Sorry if this has been answered earlier, but couple of questions related to the AMD chips -
1] So far, afaik, there has been no support announced for Netflix 4K or other HDR content for the AMD chipset. Is that right?
2] Will these AMD chips have a GPU too like the Intel ones? And, will it work with MadVR?

1. When HDR content was demonstrated in public last year, it was done on the upcoming AMD GPUs. Not Nvidia. AMD is fully invested in supporting HDR and they will support 4K Netflix, with the latest tech being built into their products. Right now though, Netflix 4K on the PC isn't important to AMD, Nvidia, or Intel since 99.9% of the consumer market doesn't need it or want it since they can already get superior 4K Netflix through their UHDTVs - if they have them and an appropriate connection - and aren't rocking 4K-capable PCs or laptops to begin with, but it will come with the next-gen GPUs and APUs due this year, as the industry will begin a wide transition to 4K laptops and desktops after Computex, with CES 2018 likely having a large roll-out of 4K laptops and AIO desktops. Computex should bring a lot of UHD stuff to PC users, so that's when we'll know more about the APUs and AMD's new GPUs and upcoming UHD-BD drives from various players. AMD's own equivalent to SGX - security required for 4K Netflix and UHD-BD playback - is only present in the just released AMD Ryzen CPUs, while Intel's SGX goes back one generation of CPU, so it will take time to implement support for AMD's hardware in Windows 10 and the respective streaming apps and UHD-BD playback software. AMD's upcoming APUs are built on Ryzen, so they will be ideal for building 4K media playback systems with UHD-BD drives.

2. They will offer two levels of GPU, low-end and high-end. Low-end will use DDR4 and high-end will use HBM. At this point, we know nothing about core-count other than there will be quad-core models. Only the HBM models could possibly provide any acceptable level of madVR performance at 4K, because they are intended to be used in enthusiast PCs, while the DDR4 models are intended for regular PCs. As the chips have not been demo'd in such a fashion that would give us an idea of what their performance would be and because madVR and Windows 10 needs to be tweaked for hardware improvements and such, there's no way to give any definite expectations at this time. Right now, Windows 10 has issues with Ryzen due to the power-consumption regulation design of the software - Microsoft built Windows 10 with Intel's CPUs and not AMD's latest, so they didn't have any chance to get the software in sync with AMD's new core design - which should be fixed well before the time AMD's new APUs are released later this year.
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post #217 of 238 Old 03-31-2017, 08:54 AM
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Intel has put out a BIOS update for Skylake - non-Skull Canyon - NUCs. It's just a bug-fix for the last one and not essential to install, but if you haven't already installed the previous BIOS, you should install this one.
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post #218 of 238 Old 04-03-2017, 11:07 AM
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The latest dots suggest that Intel is planning a Skull Canyon update with Kaby Lake, though this unit might be packing the new Kaby Lake-G chip, which is Intel's equivalent to AMD's upcoming Raven Ridge APU. The "G" probably stands for "Graphics", though Intel has not made any statement about it other than saying that this new chip exists and will have some new design elements that will make it superior to the regular Kaby Lake. The hardware difference between "G" and regular Kaby Lake is that this newer chip apparently has a dedicated VRAM supply in the form of HBM, which will be tied to the onboard GPU, which has it's own PCIe connection. Rumors state that this might be a new discrete-class GPU built on AMD's tech from that unconfirmed licensing deal between AMD and Intel over GPU tech and patents. However, if it is an Intel HD/Iris GPU tied into HBM, it will be more than enough for creative/HTPC stuff, albeit definitely not enough power for any serious gaming.
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post #219 of 238 Old 04-22-2017, 07:32 AM
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Gigabyte has released a basic, fanless Kaby Lake BRIX (NUC) for signage use. It's 100% silent because it uses the case as a heatsink, but it lacks the additional storage of regular NUC, due to the design. This model is perfect for KISS HTPC use if you have a high-end Gigabit home network because you can just put it behind your TV and pretty much forget about it. It has two wireless antenna and a variety of other connectivity not found on regular NUC systems because it's intended marketplace is industrial use/signage, but it has what you need for HTPC.

http://www.gigabyte.com/Mini-PcBareb...3A-7100-rev-10


In other news, Intel is now offering Windows 10 Driver Bundles for all of it's NUC products, so if you just bought a new NUC, are going to refresh an old NUC with a new Windows 10 install, or just need to update everything, you can now download driver bundles from the driver/software download page for your particular model. These bundles are about 1GB in size, so they are perfect for keeping on flash drives for quick installs/updates.

Due to the permanent cancellation of IDF (Intel Developer Forum), it looks as if Intel will simply move ahead any NUC releases/secret leaks intended for that event to Computex.
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post #220 of 238 Old 04-28-2017, 08:57 AM
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Looks like Amazon is now shipping the Kaby Lake i5 NUCS for $397. Will wait to see a test (esp noise) before pulling the trigger.
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post #221 of 238 Old 04-29-2017, 11:36 AM
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Originally Posted by mismjy1 View Post
Looks like Amazon is now shipping the Kaby Lake i5 NUCS for $397. Will wait to see a test (esp noise) before pulling the trigger.
The i3 and i5 are very quiet. The i7 makes noise when pushed, but you're not likely to do that.
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post #222 of 238 Old 04-29-2017, 12:12 PM
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The i3 and i5 are very quiet. The i7 makes noise when pushed, but you're not likely to do that.
I was thinking the same thing. I don't mind if the fan spins up when my son is playing Minecraft, but don't want any discernible noise when playing videos.
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post #223 of 238 Old 04-29-2017, 12:25 PM
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Skylake NUCs are being dropped by retailers and are being given discount pricing for what's available, so it looks like they may be reaching EOL, as far as manufacturing goes. If you are looking to run a Linux/KODI system, they make great little boxes since the low-end/mid-range RAM and SSD upgrades are fairly inexpensive these days.
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post #224 of 238 Old 04-29-2017, 12:30 PM
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I was thinking the same thing. I don't mind if the fan spins up when my son is playing Minecraft, but don't want any discernible noise when playing videos.
That would only happen when using software decoding or the GPU EU assisted decoding, neither of which you're likely to do with a Kaby Lake NUC since the latest QuickSync decoder handles the full list of codecs in use at the moment.
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post #225 of 238 Old 04-30-2017, 02:56 PM
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need help choosing a NUC

So I have 3 Haswell i5 NUCs and I love them to death, but now I need another NUC.

I am running a Panasonic Plasma monitor and Pre-Amp Pro that pre-dates HDMI. I need a NUC that has optical out and HDMI out, which seems to leave the choices to the Pentium and Celeron lines. But I also need Windows 7 support since I run WMC to watch TV and OpenPHT (Plex) to watch full blu-ray rips (1080p24 MKV + HD audio). So my questions are:

1. How does the NUC5PPYH compare to the NUC5CPYH? The former has a Pentium (Pinnacle Canyon?) and the latter has a Braswell Celeron. Which one will work for my purposes?

2. I read about some chatter in the past about Celeron/Pentium NUCs not being able to bitstream HD audio via the HDMI output (I know that I can only get 5.1 from the optical output) because of driver/hardware limitations. Has that issue been resolved on either of these NUCs? Intel's spec sheet claims it supports 7.1 audio and "HD audio" but does it really work? I've never had an issue bitstreaming HD audio tracks with my Haswell NUCs, but I want to be cautious here since I've never had a non-Core NUC.

3. Is there any way to get the latest celeron NUC (NUC6CAYH) to run windows 7 or 8.1? I'd like to get the latest NUC that has optical audio but I'm hamstrung by how I can watch TV, for which I have to have Windows Media Center.

4. Finally, do these NUCs have the ability to Wake from S5 sleep via an IR command? I got this to work beautifully on my Haswell NUCs and they wake up and shut down all from my remote, essentially turning the NUCs into fancy set top boxes. Can I do that with these Celeron/ Pentium Nucs too?
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post #226 of 238 Old 05-08-2017, 11:21 AM
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Originally Posted by LexInVA View Post
That would only happen when using software decoding or the GPU EU assisted decoding, neither of which you're likely to do with a Kaby Lake NUC since the latest QuickSync decoder handles the full list of codecs in use at the moment.
I will give it a try. Worst (or best) case I can get this slick looking Akasa fanless case.
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post #227 of 238 Old 05-11-2017, 03:01 PM
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Intel has quietly released new Kaby Lake NUCs, under the NHX product line. No, I don't know what NHX stands for. The difference between these new NUCs and the previous Kaby Lake units is the inclusion of pre-installed Optane memory caches and the use of a 2.5 HDD as main storage, instead of the M.2, which is occupied by the Optane memory. Apart from that, they are the exact same product, so there is no reason for anyone here to buy one.
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post #228 of 238 Old 06-02-2017, 04:07 PM
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Akasa Plato X7 antenna solution

I'm putting a NUC7i5BNK into a Akasa Plato X7 case and am trying to find out what to use for external antennas. I've ordered a Highfine 2 x 2.4GHz 6dBi Indoor Omni-directional Antenna 802.11n/b/g RP-SMA Female Connector + 2 x 20cm/8" U.FL / IPEX to RP-SMA Pigtail Antenna WiFi Cable but have no idea if the board connectors are compatible.
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post #229 of 238 Old 06-10-2017, 03:50 PM
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MSI Cubi 3

A little bigger than a NUC, but fanless Kaby Lake including i7...

http://www.fanlesstech.com/2017/06/m...es-cubi-3.html
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post #230 of 238 Old 06-12-2017, 08:28 AM
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The Highfine Antenna connectors are not compatible with the NUC7i5BNK.

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I'm putting a NUC7i5BNK into a Akasa Plato X7 case and am trying to find out what to use for external antennas. I've ordered a Highfine 2 x 2.4GHz 6dBi Indoor Omni-directional Antenna 802.11n/b/g RP-SMA Female Connector + 2 x 20cm/8" U.FL / IPEX to RP-SMA Pigtail Antenna WiFi Cable but have no idea if the board connectors are compatible.
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post #231 of 238 Old 06-12-2017, 09:48 AM
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A warning to anyone looking to buy a new monitor to go with a NUC......

The new thin/slim monitors that companies are making usually do not have speakers or headphone outputs, so you may be limited to the front-end audio from the NUC, which uses a sound chip that is separate from the Intel HD Graphics audio. Read the monitor specs carefully before you buy. I was going to plunk down some change for a new monitor only to find out that none of the ones I was looking at had speakers and some didn't have any headphone outputs either.
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post #232 of 238 Old 06-19-2017, 06:38 AM
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Important question, does the Intel NUC support DRM for things like Netflix 4k?
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post #233 of 238 Old 06-21-2017, 08:19 AM
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Important question, does the Intel NUC support DRM for things like Netflix 4k?
All Intel® NUC Kit NUC7iXXXX do.
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post #234 of 238 Old 06-21-2017, 01:57 PM
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Important question, does the Intel NUC support DRM for things like Netflix 4k?
Even my cheapo apollo lAke will do Netflix 4k
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post #235 of 238 Old 07-19-2017, 04:19 PM
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Looks like the next-gen NUCs with Coffee Lake will have quad-core CPUs, with the GPU design from Kaby Lake being carried over and renamed Intel UHD Graphics, to signify the obvious UHD functionality. No word on new codec support in the video decoder/encoder block. GPU performance should be nearly identical to Kaby Lake NUCs and the 4K connectivity will remain unchanged from Kaby Lake, which uses DP-HDMI conversion, with optional Thunderbolt 3 in the mix.
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post #236 of 238 Old 08-22-2017, 09:14 AM
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Intel has revealed the specs and such for the 8th-gen Kaby Lake-U CPUs (It's a refresh!) that are to be used in the upcoming NUCs that ship later this year. This refresh came out of nowhere - leaked info back around Computex hinted at a refresh with a 2018 launch of Coffee Lake, but was not clear that it was what was going to happen - and Intel is not talking about Coffee Lake, except to say that these are NOT Coffee Lake, so I'm not sure what is going on with what was supposed to be their first 8th-gen NUC/Ultrabook/Laptop CPUs.

All are quad-core parts with double the cache and same GPU as 7th-gen NUCs, albeit with a new display controller design for HDCP 2.2. I'm not sure if this follows the HDMI 2.0 included with the upcoming Gemini Lake GPUs or if it will rely on an external conversion to HDMI 2.0 (and sometimes including Thunderbolt) like the older Kaby Lake-U design does. Clock speeds will be lower due to more cores and having to maintain the 15W TDP, but the RAM gets a bump to DDR4-2400. That RAM is a bit more expensive than the 2133 and is mostly confined to enthusiast parts because most laptops run 2133, so I don't recommend you go above 2133, which is less expensive and easier to obtain/shop around for because of it's greater availability.
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post #237 of 238 Old 09-04-2017, 06:48 AM
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The latest rumor points to new Coffee Lake NUCs coming in Spring of next year and Skull Canyon will get a Coffee Lake or Cannonlake replacement, which will hopefully be a better and properly functioning design than Skull Canyon was. These Coffee Lake NUCs should have significantly higher performance than the current NUC designs because they will have quad-core CPUs that are between the current NUCs and regular desktop CPUs in their performance, with a 28w TDP. No word on Kaby Lake refreshed NUCs, but it is possible that Intel may not release them due to large unsold quantities of current NUCs, which aren't selling well from what I've read between the lines. On paper, Intel can simply replace the current Kaby Lake NUC CPUs with the refreshed Kaby Lake in the design and resume manufacturing, but it's always a numbers game in the end. If they do launch refreshed Kaby Lake NUCs, the older model will probably not go down to fire sale prices and only get a modest discount of $50 or so.
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post #238 of 238 Old 09-11-2017, 05:58 PM
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In an odd turn of events, Intel has pooped out a new product line of Kaby Lake NUCs with dual HDMI 2.0 outputs. i3/i5 options in both extended and compact chassis, so you can go with an HDD/SSD or just an SSD. The only real difference is some changes to the board, to allow dual HDMI and the dropping of the microSD slot, which doesn't really affect anyone anyway.

https://www.intel.com/content/www/us.../nuc/kits.html


But wait! There's more!

Intel is also now selling complete Kaby Lake NUC systems, with HDD/Optane and Windows 10 installed and it looks like you have to add your own RAM. Not sure what's going on there, but that's what it seems to say on their product listing. These are the older versions and not the new one with dual-HDMI outputs.
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