Custom Resolution Guide for 1080i HDTV-HTPC-POWERSTRIP-RADEON - Page 16 - AVS Forum
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post #451 of 1734 Old 06-02-2003, 05:27 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:


Originally posted by KYamnitz
Hi all, I asked above about vertical underscan at 1440x960i - can someone help me out? Can I correct for the underscan by using PowerStrip's Advanced Timing Options -> Position and size -> and adjusting the arrows up and down to stretch the image? Or does that mess with the PQ or line total? Thanks,
--Kyle

As I mentioned in the guide, you cannot correct for vertical underscan in Powerstrip for the exact reasons you stated, it changes the vertical line total & your set will probably lose sync after a few clicks. You must create a custom resolution and add to the vertical pixel count. That pretty much defeats 2x scaling however, so I personally choose to adjust using the service menus of my set (increase vertical size a little).
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post #452 of 1734 Old 06-02-2003, 07:57 PM
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Okay Karnis, thanks. Only problem is I'm sharing that input with my satellite and I'd already adjusted overscan for it (so I'd be cropping some of the image)...

Maybe I'll try 1800x960i and resize to 1800x960 in FFDShow. Would that be bad with 2.5x scaling horizontally and 2x scaling vertically? Thanks for your help. Take care,
--Kyle
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post #453 of 1734 Old 06-02-2003, 08:10 PM
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Quick Q: When adjusting for horizontal underscan / overscan, are you supposed to change the Front / Back Porch pixels OR µs? When I tried, I was only able to get anywhere by adjusting the µs setting (not sure what that is). Is that okay? Thanks,
--Kyle
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post #454 of 1734 Old 06-02-2003, 10:48 PM
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Does anyone use Dscaler with their ATI AIW card? What does it do for you? Does it affect the custom timings used in Powerstrip? Thanks.
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post #455 of 1734 Old 06-03-2003, 06:38 AM - Thread Starter
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If you find your desktop has black bars on the sides (underscan), or has a bit too much overscan (image cropping), simply go back to the advanced timings screen and adjust the horizontal front/back porches: To reduce horizontal overscan, increase the horizontal front/back porches. To increase horizontal overscan, reduce the horizontal front/back porches.
Before making overscan adjustments, click the "lock scan frequencies" button in the advanced timings screen. Now you can make realtime adjustments while keeping the scan rate and refresh rate locked. You'll probably find that a couple of clicks on the horizontal size control buttons will do the trick.
Once you get the image as close as you can, uncheck "lock scan frequencies" and carefully fine tune by clicking no more than twice on the horizontal front porch. You'll notice each click on the porch button will change your scan frequency, so use the "type and tab" method described above to set your scan frequency back to 33.75. Repeat this method until you achieve the desired results, click "apply", then "ok".
Do NOT adjust the horizontal sync width, only the porches. Do NOT use this method for vertical adjustments as it will change your vertical line total and your set could lose sync after a click or two.
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post #456 of 1734 Old 06-03-2003, 07:43 AM
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Hi Karnis, I have read this thread thoroughly, really!! I'm not trying to ask you to repost your original thread. My question was when adjusting the front back porches, do you adjust the *pixels* setting or the *µs* setting? In PowerStrip 3.40, there are two different settings for Front Porch.
OR, are you saying you use the arrows under Position and size?

At any rate, adjusting the porch µs values has worked for me - I just wasn't sure if it was the proper way to do it (i.e. causing other problems perhaps). Take care,
--Kyle
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post #457 of 1734 Old 06-03-2003, 07:49 AM - Thread Starter
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Typically, I "lock scan frequencies" and use the size buttons, 'cause it does the same thing as adjusting the pixel value of the porches. Either way works.
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post #458 of 1734 Old 06-03-2003, 08:43 AM
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I wish I understood why even one click on the values in 1920x1080i throws the scan totally off. I have it locked. It's a shame, because I actually have a considerable amount of space on both sides, but my vertical is way off (I can't see the top or bottom at all).

-MP

Someday maybe I'll actually WATCH my projector...
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post #459 of 1734 Old 06-03-2003, 08:48 AM
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Thanks. Weird - changing the pixel values didn't seem to do anything for me - just the µs values.

Here's another oddity - 1440x960i *DID* have vertical underscan - now it has somehow magically disappeared (mostly)! I don't know how, but I'm glad! I just hope it sticks...

Have you seen this - the amount of over/underscan changing on its own? The only thing I had done with PowerStrip was add another resolution (1800x960i), tested it (and changed the horizontal porches), and went back to 1440x960i. Even after a reboot of the PC & TV, it still stuck. TTYL,
--Kyle
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post #460 of 1734 Old 06-03-2003, 09:36 AM - Thread Starter
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I haven't seen values change on their own, but I do know that while making adjustments in the advanced timings screen, you must click "apply" within a certain time or the setting will revert back to their previous values...a "fail-safe" feature.
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post #461 of 1734 Old 06-04-2003, 09:30 PM
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karnis-
What resolution and dongle has the best picture quality in your opinion for dvd playback? 1080i or 480p?
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post #462 of 1734 Old 06-05-2003, 06:37 AM - Thread Starter
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I use 1920x1080i for DVD playback, corrected for vertical overscan to 960i with Theatertek.

I have a 9500pro so I use the purple DVI HDTV adapter.
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post #463 of 1734 Old 06-05-2003, 09:17 PM
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Hi Guys hope you are all well..!

Any suggestions on resolution and timings for:

29" Philips 100 HZ HDTV 4:3 1080i / 480p inputs.. running

On a Home theater PC running a Geforce 4 Mx420 64 Meg AGP card..

Am I correct in thinking that 640 x 480 @ 60 HZ would be okay to start with?

Or do you try for 1440 x 1080 @ 60Hz if your htpc lets you go to 1080 in vertical res.. ?

Currently I am just running 800 x 600 at 60 hz through S-Video on an old Mitsubishi 29" 7 year old tv..

Could some one just tell me what to do here? Something like.."you need to be running this at this refresh rate..? "

Thanks guys

Tminus

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post #464 of 1734 Old 06-06-2003, 05:18 AM - Thread Starter
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Try using some of the 480p timings posted in the guide. This way your set won't go into "squeeze" mode.
For DVD try 1440x480p.
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post #465 of 1734 Old 06-08-2003, 01:13 PM
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Great, if depressing, information (I have a new Compaq Presario 3045 which I thought I could use as a HTPC; damn SIS M650 graphics card). So, given that I can't play in the custom resolution sand box on my laptop and HDTV ( 2nd gen. Mitsu) does anyone have any thoughts about how I can mitigate the annoying overscan? Any help would be much appreciated.
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post #466 of 1734 Old 06-08-2003, 02:02 PM - Thread Starter
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For DVD playback you can use one of the players that has aspect ratio control such as TheaterTek or Zoom Player.
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post #467 of 1734 Old 06-08-2003, 07:21 PM
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Could someone explain to me what the difference in viewing a DVD at 640x480p (or 720x480p for that matter) versus viewing it with a desktop resolution in the 540p range will do for me on my 4:3 TV? I don't understand the "why" of that. I have a transcoder and use it daily for a lot of things(including playing back a few ripped DVD images with Zoomplayer) , but, what could it possibly offer for me? Isn;t the native resolution of the disc stuck at 720x480 anyhow? Could someone explain what I am missing out on, what codecs they are using with ZP, and what settings seem to work for this? Thanks.

Dan Bennett

Learning something new every minute.
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post #468 of 1734 Old 06-09-2003, 01:12 AM
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I have an aging Sony VPL-W400Q. The advantages of using an HTPC were evident to me and I spent a couple of years running it into the Sony using a AA 960 and 1584x540P and a Matrox G400 and later a Radeon 7000.

I am now running a Radeon 9000 with 3.4 drivers and the latest PowerStrip. I have used Karnis' custom settings.

Strangely 1584x540 is now the only resolution that I can get to work? With some others like 1920x540P and 1920x1080i I get a rolling screen. For some reason even 960x540 isn't working.

Does any one know if the Sony will take a 1920x1080i signal? I thought it would as it accepts 540P/1080i timings.

Any ideas why only 1584x540 is working?
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post #469 of 1734 Old 06-09-2003, 06:08 AM - Thread Starter
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Dan: There is tons of info about this on the forum, search around for the answers you seek, basically people scale DVDs to the highest resolution their display accepts.
talbs: Check the scan rate, refresh rate and vertical line total of the rez that is working & compare it to the others. Please remember that this thread is designed for RPTV HDTVs.
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post #470 of 1734 Old 06-10-2003, 08:49 AM
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So I'm using a radeon 9500 with the ATI dongle, and I'm connecting to a mitsubishi wt-42311 16:9 hd monitor. Now I've read Karnis' custom timing guide, and I have the process down for getting the custom resolutions to take, but I can't seem to figure out how to get the scan rate, refresh rate, and # of lines to lock in. Every time I try to use the tab method, I get something totally out of sync. And once, I got the scan rate locked in at 33.75, but the refresh and lines on the screen weren't anywhere near the values specified in the guide. Also, along the same lines, when the resolution is jacked up to i believe 1990X1080i, I'm getting scan line twitter (for lack of a better term) so bad that it's distracting. Can anyone either show me the right place to find the answer, or help me out a little? I'd appreciate it. Oh, and just as a p.s. the mitsubishi TV that I have only supports 480i, 480p, and then 1080i. At least that's what mitsubishi says. Is that odd?
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post #471 of 1734 Old 06-10-2003, 06:35 PM
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Karnis,

Thanks a bunch for your timings. Though I read this forum all the time, I'd never really tried hooking my PC up to my Toshiba 65H80. But I just got a Radeon 9500 and decided to give it a try. Your 1920x1080i timings came right up, and I just had to adjust a bit to get the horizontal positioning and the overscan about right. The T2 Extreme demo and the MS demos look great, and I watched Aliens and Toy Story 2 (a long night). I have the set connected via DVI--> VGA Adapter--> Tranceiver, using Cat 3.4 drivers.

I did notice one strange thing. The T2 Extreme demos and the MS HDTV stuff would stutter, both video and sound, while playing on my primary display (17" LCD set to 1280x1024). If I moved the app - Zoom Player - to the second display that was set to the 1080i timings, they played perfectly.

Just tried them now without a 2nd monitor attached and they play OK, though the Coral clip audio still stutters every now and then.

My machine is an AthlonXP 2400, 512MB RAM, Radeon 9500.

Thanks again!

Kevin
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post #472 of 1734 Old 06-12-2003, 04:03 PM
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I've tried the settings in the guide for 856x480, with no luck. I've got the Radeon9500 Pro with the ATI HDTV adapater. When I try to switch the 856x480p in Powerstrip, all I get is a bunch of colored wavy lines. Is there something I can try to correct this? Is it just a matter of tweaking one of the settings? It's similar to the results I get when I play around with the porch settings on a resolution that works, and end up with a bad scan rate or something.

Thanks,
MP

Someday maybe I'll actually WATCH my projector...
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post #473 of 1734 Old 06-12-2003, 05:20 PM - Thread Starter
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What happens if you switch to 856x480p without Powerstrip running? Also try to test it on a PC monitor without the adapter.
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post #474 of 1734 Old 06-12-2003, 07:16 PM
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Works by selecting it from the list of all supported displays. Has some serious overscan issues that need to be fixed though. Is there a way I can find the settings it likes and bring them in to powerstrip, and then adjust it from within? I'm just curious why it works through the display panel but not PS. Thanks for the help Karnis.

-MP

Someday maybe I'll actually WATCH my projector...
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post #475 of 1734 Old 06-12-2003, 07:28 PM - Thread Starter
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Could be that your set doesn't like those timings. Do this: switch to the rez 856x480p then open Powerstrip...display profiles, and in thedrop down window under the refresh rate slider, make sure it's set to "Windows default", not "custom resolution". This starts you from scratch. Then in the advanced timings screen, click "lock scan frequencies" and you can adjust the horizontal porch settings safely to correct for horizontal overscan. You'll still be at 480p (~31.5KHz) but that should get you started. Sometimes sets are very particular about the horizontal sync width at 540p timings, you'll have to experiment to get it right. My Mits is less picky about those values.
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post #476 of 1734 Old 06-12-2003, 07:35 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by debennett2
Could someone explain to me what the difference in viewing a DVD at 640x480p (or 720x480p for that matter) versus viewing it with a desktop resolution in the 540p range will do for me on my 4:3 TV? I don't understand the "why" of that...

Dan,

Wish I could offer some suggestions on the software side, but I'm not that far yet. If yer lookin for some interestin readin on scaling though, here are a couple threads you might wanna peruse:
DVI player at 1080/720 vs RP82/Xp50
Someone please explain in laymans terms what a scaler does?

As Karnis mentioned, many large screen users find they get better PQ by scaling the video source up to precisely match their display's resolution. I think there may be some value to this on the XBR CRTs as well, but haven't broken out of the 480 line modes myself yet to confirm this. IAC, now that you have the ability to unlock the HD modes for fullscreen viewing on the 4:3 CRTs, I would think you'd see some noticeable difference in sharpness simply by virtue of the more densely packed scanlines at 1080i vs 480p (albeit at the expense of some flicker).

ADU
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post #477 of 1734 Old 06-12-2003, 10:45 PM
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Now that the Catalyst 3.4 drivers are out, does this change anything for those of us using the dongle? Regardless, what are the best T&R's for gaming?
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post #478 of 1734 Old 06-13-2003, 10:04 AM
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ok, I've finally gotten one of karnis's custom timings to take relatively well. It's the 1776X1000i setting that's included in his guide. I'm still trying to figure out how to get the scan rate and everything to hit the exact values he specified, but i can at least see a picture. So here's my next question: how clear are the fonts supposed to be at that high a resolution? I've gone through the advanced convergence on my mitsubishi 42311, and I've turned up the resolution settings to their max, and the fonts are still fuzzy, and the lines around every menu, and on the edge of every screen still flutter to the point of being a distraction. Is there anything that i can do to fix this?
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post #479 of 1734 Old 06-13-2003, 11:48 AM
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BigdogBTS: The text, apps, etc. on interlaced resolutions will be unclear. Karnis' progressive scan resolutions will be clear text. Test with them if you're afraid there's a problem. TTYL,
--Kyle
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post #480 of 1734 Old 06-13-2003, 02:36 PM
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so basically, I'm hosed then, since the highest progressive resolution that monitor supports is 480. Those mitsubishi's only support 480i, 480p, and then 1080i... is that odd?
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