Custom Resolution Guide for 1080i HDTV-HTPC-POWERSTRIP-RADEON - Page 19 - AVS Forum
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post #541 of 1734 Old 07-05-2003, 03:00 PM
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Thanks Karnis - I thought that I had started with 3.4 and then upgraded 3.5 but I must have been mistaken. I down-graded to 3.4 (I just love ati) and that corrected the problem.

Thank you very much!

1080i works great. Now I just need to get my Fusion II to stop bouncing and life will be good.

Thanks again.

-Mike

***Trooper***

As Karnis told me - you must use 3.4 if you want 1080i to work - with 3.5 you only get the top 50% of the screen streched out to fill the entire screen.

Quote:


Originally posted by Karnis
Must use CAT 3.4 drivers

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post #542 of 1734 Old 07-05-2003, 03:46 PM - Thread Starter
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Trooper:
Here are some Custom Timing and Resolution strings for the ATi Radeon card, created with Powerstrip 3.30 build 366 and Catalyst 3.4 WinXP ATi drivers, Radeon 9500pro card and displayed on a Mitsubishi W55819 1080i 16x9 HDTV. All are 1080i/ 540p based timings. Scan rate is exactly 33.75KHz, refresh rate is 59.94Hz and vertical line total is 563 for all resolutions. Subtract 43 vertical lines from the active pixeland redistribute them to the front/ back vertical porches and you have a 480p resolution runnigng at 540p timings.
Copy the entire Powerstrip timing parameters listed below, one resolution at a time. Then, in PS 3--display profiles--advanced timings--custom resolutions--user defined, click the paste button, which will add the copied values, and then click add. Or, you can enter the generic timing detail values manually in the custom resolution screen if you wish. Powerstrip will tell you if the display driver has accepted the new resolution. You may be promted to reboot first. If so, you will restart at your previous resolution, so you will have to manually switch to the new resolution. Enter the advanced timings screen and adjust as needed. Common first time tweaks include positioning and adjusting for over/underscan. Remember, to use your new custom T & R, make sure you set Powerstrip 3 (options---preferences) to start up with Windows AND apply settings at start up.

Get this one working first and move on:
PowerStrip timing parameters:
856x480p=856,87,48,121,480,28,1,54,37530,272

Generic timing details for 856x480:
HFP=87 HSW=48 HBP=121 kHz=34 VFP=28 VSW=1 VBP=54 Hz=60
+hsync +vsync

Try these next:
PowerStrip timing parameters:
1776x1000i HDTV adapter=1776,136,48,240,1000,42,5,78,74250,280

Generic timing details for 1776x1000:
HFP=136 HSW=48 HBP=240 kHz=34 VFP=42 VSW=5 VBP=78 Hz=30
interlace +hsync +vsync
--------------------------------------------------------------------
PowerStrip timing parameters:
1920x1080i HDTV adapter=1920,169,64,295,1080,20,5,20,82620,280

Generic timing details for 1920x1080:
HFP=169 HSW=64 HBP=295 kHz=34 VFP=20 VSW=5 VBP=20 Hz=30
interlace +hsync +vsync

Remember for interlacing you need to disable tiling w/Powerstrip and you need the CAT 3.4 drivers.
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post #543 of 1734 Old 07-05-2003, 04:02 PM
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Thanks Mike and Karnis! I'm going to try moving back to 3.4 and see if that fixes my problem. Thanks for the explanation on the timings, Karnis. I'll give those a shot.

debennett2, I've read that first post by Karnis several times. I thought that the difference was the 33.75 vs. 31.5, but I wasn't sure. I just learned something!

I appreciate the clarification!

Regards,

Trooper
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post #544 of 1734 Old 07-05-2003, 04:15 PM
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Hello

I am a newbie to this HDTV/Powerstip theme but after seeing the webpage of a english dealer of Loewe TV (www.petermartin.co.uk) I realise that I could get almost HDTV from my PAL Loewe set. Well does anyone have any info about using powerstrip + Matrox G550 card a a Loewe TV ?

Regards

Vasco
(Portugal)
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post #545 of 1734 Old 07-05-2003, 04:33 PM
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I have a 60" Sony GWII and a HTPC with the Radeon 9500 Pro. Now the GWII maximum height is 768. Right now I have my HTPC set up to run 1280x720, so would it help any to go higher to 768. I have Powerstrip and was thinking of adjusting the resolution up. If I am thinking right it would not do any good to go above the 768 maximum. Is this correct?

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post #546 of 1734 Old 07-05-2003, 06:27 PM
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Karnis,

Thank you for the info you gave me. Basically I took your ATI 1920x1080i settings, locked the sync and played with the Horizontal Sync Width (HSW) and the Porch Settings. Here is my working settings with brightness normal.

Mitsubishi WT-46807 RPTV (Using Component DTV Inputs)
ATI All-In-Wonder 9800 Pro (Using Component Video ONLY - RED ADAPTER)
ATI catalyst 3.5 drivers
Windows Xp Pro SP1
Power Strip 3.4

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
PowerStrip timing parameters:
1920x1080=1920,154,192,150,1080,40,5,0,81810,280

Generic timing details for 1920x1080:
HFP=154 HSW=192 HBP=150 kHz=34 VFP=40 VSW=5 VBP=0 Hz=30

Linux modeline parameters:
"1920x1080" 81.810 1920 2074 2266 2416 1080 1120 1125 1125 interlace +hsync +vsync
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Not sure if this is the absolute best.... but I'm happy that i now have brightness control again. Hope this helps some users out there.

Another question I have is... I don't believe the 46" TVs can accurately do 1080i due to the size of the CRTs... is it 960i? And if so, should I try a resolution at 960i?

Thanks again for the help!!!

Jim
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post #547 of 1734 Old 07-05-2003, 07:13 PM
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It worked! Thanks, guys! I am running at 1920x1080i! Switching to the 3.4 drivers made a HUGE difference.

Karnis, are you running TT in 1920x1080i mode because the DVD format is a natively interlaced format? Did you run some tests with AVIA that lead you to believe that this is the best resolution be using? Just curious...

Trooper
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post #548 of 1734 Old 07-05-2003, 07:13 PM
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Karnis,

My overlay works FINE on my 9700 Pro with 1776x1000i timings you have (slightly modified for slight overscan) WITH TILING ON. I can play both windowed and full screen overlay with VRM9 enabled just fine.

I chekced this and disabling Tiling DOES reduce my 3DMARK 2003 score by about 30% so I think it is on.

What problems should I be seeing? DVD and WMV files look great. I have not tried a inerlaced game hoever, just the DVD and WMV

Cat 3.4
Pro 9700
Powerstrip 3.4
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post #549 of 1734 Old 07-06-2003, 08:35 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:


Originally posted by trooper
Karnis, are you running TT in 1920x1080i mode because the DVD format is a natively interlaced format? Did you run some tests with AVIA that lead you to believe that this is the best resolution be using? Just curious...

Trooper

I believe the best resolution to run is the highest resolution your display supports while still maintaining error free scaling of DVD native rez, 720x480p (there is lots of info available about the benefits of scaling so I won't go into that here).
Example: 1440x960p is popular among hi-end CRT owners as it is 2x horizontal and vertical scaling.
I have an ATi HDTV adapter so to get anything above 480p I must use interlaced rez.
The adapter has 2 interlaced rez: 1776x1000i and 1920x1080i.
The former does a good job for fullscreen video playback (adjusted w/ Powerstrip, of course), but I want better scaling.
So I use TheaterTek for DVD playback at 1920x1080i.
First, using AVIA, we can confirm that 1920 does not introduce scaling errors of native DVD by examining the 6.75MHz circle in the widescreen resolution test pattern in AVIA...all the vertical lines are evenly spaced. Cool.
Next, using Powerstrip, correct for horizontal overscan. Don't correct for horizontal overscan in TT as you want to maintain 1920 pixels.
Lastly, use TheaterTeks' aspect ratio controller to shrink the vertical to 960. This corrects for vertical overscan and maintains 2x vertical scaling.
Of course, YMMV depending on your sets' amount of overscan, but you get the idea.
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post #550 of 1734 Old 07-06-2003, 11:01 AM
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Questions on Sanyo Z1

for HTPC, Is 960 * 540 the best 1: 1 pixel mapping and the best ever reso
/PQ that can be gotten out of the Z1 ?

( I am outputting from DVI output of ATI radeon card (HTPC))
SOURCE : DVD & analog sources such as cable & VHS

QN ..
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...0&pagenumber=3


FOr Panasonic AE 300, the black and white table concludes that 1920 * 1080 is AA or best quality for the projector



QN 1)
Looks like the best reso ( 1: 1) produced by the z1 is 960* 540 whereas
For AE 300 , the best reso is 1920 * 1080 ( but since it cannot reach 1:1
mapping as compared to Z1 , this reso could still be inferior to Z1
technically)


OF course AE 300 is superior in less screen door etc...


QN 2 ) I confirm that even if we set the z 1 to 1920 * 1080 , the quality
would not be as gd as 960* 540


qn 3) DVI from ATi radeon, do I input into component or VGA input of
sanyo projector to get the best quality ?
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post #551 of 1734 Old 07-06-2003, 04:14 PM
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what are the cheapest models of ATI Radeon cards available which would be compatible for sending my computer in HDTV to my Toshiba TW 56 HDTV 16X9 screen? Why doesn't the HDTV adapter come built into the card?
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post #552 of 1734 Old 07-06-2003, 04:22 PM - Thread Starter
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The cheapest would be an 8500 I would think.
The answer to your 2nd question is probably $$$.
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post #553 of 1734 Old 07-06-2003, 07:00 PM
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Karnis,

Your explanation is logical. If I set the vertical to 960 in TT, however, I get very small back bars at the top and bottom of the movie image. Does this happen on your Mits RPTV? I don't want any burn in. Is this of concern?

Do you play your movies back in TT so that they take up the entire screen, or do you let content, such as 2.35:1 playback with the bars?

Thanks,

Trooper
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post #554 of 1734 Old 07-06-2003, 11:55 PM
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Karnis,

Thank You so much for this very thorough and well done post. I have finally been able to get a perfect picture using 720x480 and your timings. This is with an ATI 9500, ATI HDTV DVI--> Component adapter, and Mitsubishi WS-55859 16:9 RPTV. (Inputs are very similar to your 55819)

It is PERFECT, but it has to be plugged into the DTV (high bandwidth - 1080i) input, which is the same input I use for my satellite reciever for 1080i. I need to be able to plug it into one of the low bandwidth (480p) inputs along with my DVD player. But when I plug the computer into one of these inputs, it no longer works. I get a blank screen and the Mitsubishi displays "1080i" instead of 480p. In fact, it displays the same thing when hooked up to the 1080i input. Is this because we are using 540p timings, causing the TV to think it's running 1080i? Progressive dvd native resolution is 720x480... and that works great through the 480p input, so I would think the computer would, too. Any ideas? Which input do you use for your Mitsubishi...I assume the DTV 1080i input?

Thanks in advance
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post #555 of 1734 Old 07-07-2003, 12:08 AM
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thanks for the information. Was reading the ATI HDTV adapter FAQ and now totally confused? Is the following statements correct?
duel display output isn't available i.e. if using the HDTV adapter you cannot view the RPTV and a computer monitor simultaneously?
DOS output isn't supported?
What's required to view the HDTV output and a computer monitor simultaneously? thanks
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post #556 of 1734 Old 07-07-2003, 07:15 AM - Thread Starter
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Trooper:
I have adjusted the overscan setting on my Mits to eliminate any little black bars caused by underscan.

Bem001: Use the 480p timings posted towards the end of the guide...they emulate a 480p progressive sacn DVD player.

mejames: I have gotten HDTV and PC monitor at the same time using the CAT 3.5 drivers. And i have entered the BIOS as well using the purple HDTV adapter.
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post #557 of 1734 Old 07-07-2003, 09:19 AM
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Please check out:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...hreadid=277293

How about Geforce cards? Last I heard was they were pretty good cards. Mine is the Asus Ti4200 and includes DVI out.

A question to Karnis?

You mention way back in this thread that it has been some 18 months since you've owned a GF basedcard. Thus my question to you is: Do you suspect I am out of luck getting the timings for this card to output to HDTV?

Do I even need an adapter if I go direct from my DVI out on the vid card directly to to my DVI in on my Hittachi HDTV? (F46500- rear projection HDTV)

You have timings listed in your guide at:
http://www.digitalconnection.com/Sup...ffnotes_17.htm

Should I take these GF settings with a grain of salt since this whole thread suggests ATI all the way?

I don't want to damage this $4000 TV if you feel these settings are not mature enough.

(sorry if this is the wrong thread, I just figured all the action here 555 posts, 1 more would,nt matter.)
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post #558 of 1734 Old 07-07-2003, 09:57 AM - Thread Starter
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Those are pretty old GF timings and I've gotten better since then at getting more exact timings. While the exact values may not work on a GF card, the same principals still apply. Also, you will find many of these T&Rs in the latest version of Powerstrip, translated to GF cards. They should be very close and you can tweak them for more precision.
However, if you use DVI it all may be a moot point. Could be plug and pplay.
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post #559 of 1734 Old 07-07-2003, 10:03 AM
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The settings in powerstrip for the GF cards are pretty accurate as is....you may want to adjust for overscan before doing anything else (Avia DVD preferably) and THEN start making the fine adjustments.
A transcoder is probably your best bet.

Question to Karnis or anyone for that matter:
How would I adjust for overscan of 16:9 material on my 4:3 television with the most accuracy? Any pointers as far as that is concerned? Thanks.

Dan Bennett

Learning something new every minute.
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post #560 of 1734 Old 07-07-2003, 03:16 PM
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However, if you use DVI it all may be a moot point. Could be plug and play

Actually, I just inspected the DVI slot on the TV. It has a flat slot on the left side. Unfortunately, the DVI out on the computer videocard has a flat spatula shaped pin - that seems would fit- except the spatula pin is surrounded by 4 small pins.

eg:
. .
_
. .

vs

_

so I can't see how it can be compatible even, much less plug and play. Too bad, because digital to digital is the way to go. It looks like I'll need the component adapter afterall.
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post #561 of 1734 Old 07-07-2003, 07:47 PM
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I'm using an AIW 9700 Pro with the supplied YPbPr cable. I've been able to get all three 480p @ 540p resolutions working to my satisfaction. I have no problems playing with the horizontal size and position.

Now, I'd like to correct the horizontal overscan for the 1776x1000i resolution. I go to the PowerStrip advanced timing dialog. Select the "Lock Scan Rates" checkbox. As soon as I touch anything to adjust the geometry, the screen goes crazy.

It's as if PowerStrip is not calculating the values it uses to program the chip correctly. I'm pretty sure I have the latest version of PowerStrip.

Any suggestions?
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post #562 of 1734 Old 07-07-2003, 09:03 PM - Thread Starter
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Try adjusting with a PC monitor & see what happens, maybe your set is losing sync for one reason or another.
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post #563 of 1734 Old 07-07-2003, 11:27 PM
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Karnis,

You adjusted your HDTV to get rid of the black bars? I'd need to have a calibration done to take care of that, wouldn't I? I noticed that the aspect ratio for 1920x960 in TT is something like 2.00:1. This really doesn't mess the picture up? The image looks good, but I've got those blasted black bars at the top and bottom. If I have my set adjusted to get rid of those, won't I end up cutting off a lot of my regular 1080i HDTV reception picture?

The 720x480p settings work, but doesn't the set just perform some "magic" to convert 480p to an image that will fit nicely on my set. It doesn't perform its "magic" when it sees 960i.

Please let me know if I'm missing a step or something that will allow me to get the 1920x960 DVD image properly on my 65908.

Thanks for spending the time answering these questions!



Trooper
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post #564 of 1734 Old 07-08-2003, 07:24 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by trooper
You adjusted your HDTV to get rid of the black bars? I'd need to have a calibration done to take care of that, wouldn't I? I noticed that the aspect ratio for 1920x960 in TT is something like 2.00:1. This really doesn't mess the picture up? The image looks good, but I've got those blasted black bars at the top and bottom. If I have my set adjusted to get rid of those, won't I end up cutting off a lot of my regular 1080i HDTV reception picture?

The 720x480p settings work, but doesn't the set just perform some "magic" to convert 480p to an image that will fit nicely on my set. It doesn't perform its "magic" when it sees 960i.

Please let me know if I'm missing a step or something that will allow me to get the 1920x960 DVD image properly on my 65908.

Thanks for spending the time answering these questions!

The black bars belong there if you're watching movies wider than roughly a 1.78:1 aspect ratio, which equates to your 16:9 screen ratio (16/9 = 1.777...).

See my post at the Theatertek forum in the following thread (the 4th post):

Aspect Ratio Question

for an explanation of how to calculate what size black bars you should have for different aspect ratios.

Your set doesn't do any "magic" with the 720x480p settings, as they use 540p timings, which makes the set think that it's seeing a 1920x1080i image (same timings as 540p) - the set displays the image without modifying it. Same thing with 960i settings (basically double the 480p vertical settings, but interlaced). The 480p and 960i settings are used to deal with the overscan in your set by not using the scan lines that are not shown on the screen.

You should adjust your aspect ratio settings in Theatertek such that a movie with an aspect ratio of 1.78 just fills the entire screen left to right and top to bottom. All other aspect ratios (1.85, 2.35, etc.) will have black bars at the top and bottom - if you adjust the image to get rid of the black bars, you'll have people who are tall and skinny and circles that look like ovals, etc.
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post #565 of 1734 Old 07-08-2003, 08:04 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by Karnis
Try adjusting with a PC monitor & see what happens, maybe your set is losing sync for one reason or another.

Well, yes, it does look sort of like it is losing sync, but the question is why? As far as I can tell, nothing you do when attached to an RGB monitor via the VGA/DVI port will provide you with any clue as to what will happen using the YPbPr cable.

I forgot to mention, I'm using the Catalyst 3.5 drivers.

One thing I noticed. The first time I hit the horizontal narrow button in PowerStrip, the picture scrambles. But, if I continue to hit it, I see a fairly clean rectangle that gets narrower and narrower as the horizontal porches are increased. The content of this rectangle remains scrambled. If the timings were really getting screwed up, I would expect to either see garbage all over the screen or the TV switch to blue screen.

Here is some further explanation that I posted on the Entech forum. By the way, if anyone has succeeded in mucking with the 1000i/1080i resolutions on the AIW 9700 Pro using the YPbPr cable, I'd like to hear from you.

---------

Let me expand a little on what I think I've learned about this beast. (Note my level of confidence.)

1776x1000i is one of the magic resolutions supported for the HDTV adapter. The magic resolutions 640x480p, 720x480p, 856x480, 1776x1000i or 1920x1080i don't result in a virtual screen. For any other resolution, you get a virtual screen scrolled in a window of the next smaller magic resolution. So, for example, if I tried to add a 1776x1002i resolution, the display would be set to 1776x1000 and the virtual screen could be scrolled up or down by 2 pixels. (There are probably other magic resolutions if you tell the driver your TV supports 720p. Mine doesn't and lying can have disastrous consequences.) I assume this is enforced by the driver, and PowerStrip can't seem to get around it.

If you use one of the 480p resolutions, without PowerStrip, you probably end up with a lot of overscan. But, using PowerStrip and the famed Karnis instructions, you can change the timing for the 480p resolution to 540p timing. This will eliminate vertical overscan. (Actually, it will probably result in vertical underscan.) You can then lock the scan rates and adjust the horizontal front and back porches to eliminate horizontal overscan. Thus, I end up with a complete set of 480p resolutions where I can see the whole desktop.

But, if I try to apply these same principles to the 1000i (and, I think 1080i) resolution, as soon as I touch the porches (or anything else, for that matter) the display is scrambled. I think that others have been able to accomplish this with the "dongles" that ATI sells for some of the other Radeon cards, but I'm not sure of that. (Any confirmations?) The dongles attach to the VGA or DVI port on the card (depending on which card you have). The AIW 9700 Pro comes with a YPbPr cable that plugs into the same video out port as the composite/S-Video cable.

In any case, I think there appears to be something subtly different that PowerStrip needs to do for the AIW 9700 Pro when it tries to change the timings for the 1000i/1080i HDTV resolutions. I'm at a loss to determine what that might be.
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post #566 of 1734 Old 07-08-2003, 08:06 AM
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You are okay. Your video card can either do analog or digital. Just get a cable that has the minus sign pin and hook it up. That's what I did with my 50" GWII and ATI 9500.
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post #567 of 1734 Old 07-08-2003, 10:32 AM
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Karnis, I read before that if you want 1920X1080i signal to be sent out of powerstrip on an htpc that you have to go into the device manager and change your monitor to Sony GDM-W900 in order for the computer to think that you have a high res monitor. I am sending my signal to a Panasonic L300U projector and I would like to send it a high def picture from my computer.
Can you confirm this and if you can how is this performed. I am not too sure how to do it.

Brian

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post #568 of 1734 Old 07-08-2003, 01:02 PM - Thread Starter
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You need to make sure the resolution slider goes up to the rez you want to use. If it doesn't, change monitor drivers and select the Sony. Then make sure you uncheck "hide modes themonitor can't display".
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post #569 of 1734 Old 07-08-2003, 03:36 PM
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So, is there such a thing as an interlaced timing based on 480p? (i.e., 960i)? I was wondering since you can run "540p" timings that are basically the same as 1080i if it worked the other way as well.

Before you criticize someone you should walk a mile in their shoes.
That way, when you criticize them, you are a mile away and you have their shoes!

Setting up Powerstrip with a Sony A10 LCD RPTV
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post #570 of 1734 Old 07-08-2003, 03:36 PM
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Thanks it worked great.

I was wondering what the deal is with different people on different websites and forums having different generic timing details for the true HD 1920X1080 in powerstrip. In the begining of this forum you state"this is an example",

Say...... HFP=169 HSW=64 HBP=295...... and so on. Another person that I was getting powerstrip settings from was stating..
HFP=40 HSW=48 HBP=192...... Why are the settings different for the same basic resolution. I would like to use 1920X1080i on my Panasonic L300U to see how the projector scales the HD image.
This is a trend all across the board. Everytime someone gives me powerstrip settings for one resolution another person has different settings for the same one. I for one am not experienced enough with how it all works to know if the ones I am getting are the right ones or not.
How can anyone really be sure?

If who have the slightest answer or comment on this issue, by all means feel free to respond.

Brian

PC Load Letter...What the **** does that mean!?
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