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musicthebee's Avatar musicthebee
10:40 AM Liked: 10
post #661 of 1734
08-07-2003 | Posts: 59
Joined: Aug 2002
I have a geforce4 and Pioneer Elite 730HD RPTV. Tried the 960X540 and it works great with very little overscan. But I am unable to get any interlaced resolutions. When I change to the interlaced resolution, power strip says myy display has accepted the resolution but doesnt switch to the interlaced resoltion after I clikc yes. I am using Karnis's custom monitor driver. Any idea what needs to be done?

Would really appreciate the help...

Thanks
Karnis's Avatar Karnis
10:52 AM Liked: 13
post #662 of 1734
08-07-2003 | Posts: 6,862
Joined: Mar 2000
Geforce does not interlace.
musicthebee's Avatar musicthebee
03:00 PM Liked: 10
post #663 of 1734
08-07-2003 | Posts: 59
Joined: Aug 2002
Thanks Karnis.

Ouch, too bad Now I need to go on hunt for the radeons...
musicthebee's Avatar musicthebee
03:03 PM Liked: 10
post #664 of 1734
08-07-2003 | Posts: 59
Joined: Aug 2002
Hi Karnis

I am confused now. When I look up this article

http://www.digitalconnection.com/Sup...ffnotes_17.htm

it shows up interlaced resolutions such as 1920X1080i under geforce section? Am I missing something?

Thanks
Karnis's Avatar Karnis
04:27 PM Liked: 13
post #665 of 1734
08-07-2003 | Posts: 6,862
Joined: Mar 2000
Very old drivers. I wrote that when geforce did interlace the desktop & 3D games, many moons ago.
musicthebee's Avatar musicthebee
05:36 PM Liked: 10
post #666 of 1734
08-07-2003 | Posts: 59
Joined: Aug 2002
Thanks very much Karnis ...
BrianH33's Avatar BrianH33
10:11 PM Liked: 10
post #667 of 1734
08-08-2003 | Posts: 176
Joined: Jun 2003
A question ....

If a scan rate of 31.5 with vertical line total of 525 represents 480p and
a scan rate of 33.75 with veritcal line total of 563 represents 540p then


What would be the scan rate and veritcal lines for 720p?
Sean_S's Avatar Sean_S
01:14 PM Liked: 13
post #668 of 1734
08-09-2003 | Posts: 745
Joined: May 2000
Quote:
Originally posted by BrianH33
A question ....

If a scan rate of 31.5 with vertical line total of 525 represents 480p and
a scan rate of 33.75 with veritcal line total of 563 represents 540p then


What would be the scan rate and veritcal lines for 720p?

If you look at this part of the 1st post in the thread:

"Generic timing details for 1280x720:
HFP=125 HSW=120 HBP=139 kHz=34 VFP=180 VSW=1 VBP=224 Hz=30
interlace +hsync +vsync"

Add the VFP, VBP, and VSW to 720 and you get 1125. Which is also the total number of lines in a 1080i frame. Also, 1080i and 720p have the same scan frequencies.

Interesting how this stuff works out, huh? Especially from the ATSC standards for HD scan frequencies point of view. Makes you wonder how a CRT based HDTV that can't do 720p is supposed to be able to do 1080i???

Sean
BrianH33's Avatar BrianH33
03:31 PM Liked: 10
post #669 of 1734
08-09-2003 | Posts: 176
Joined: Jun 2003
Ok, so we get 1125 for the number of vertical line but what is the scan rate.

At 720p, mine is around 45Khz (I am not at my HTPC to check exactly).

So 1080i should be the same???


Thanks
MurrayW's Avatar MurrayW
01:53 PM Liked: 10
post #670 of 1734
08-10-2003 | Posts: 1,143
Joined: Nov 2001
Karnis (or anyone else who knows)

I just started using powerstrip and finally think I understand scan and refresh rates after reading through this entire post and a few others.

In an earlier post you mention that the DTC100 upconverts 480i to 540p. If I run the s-video into a capture card and use Dscaler am I converting 480i to 480p?

The reason that I am curious is that to me the picture on my Mitsubishi MegaView 3717C monitor looks better (brighter and sharper) using s-video and Dscaler to a Radeon 7500 compared to the VGA output directly to the monitor.

It doesn't make sense to me that a 480p signal would look better than a 540p signal. What am I missing?

thanks,

MurrayW
Sean_S's Avatar Sean_S
05:12 PM Liked: 13
post #671 of 1734
08-11-2003 | Posts: 745
Joined: May 2000
Quote:
Originally posted by BrianH33
At 720p, mine is around 45Khz (I am not at my HTPC to check exactly).

I think you're right. I believe I was incorrect on the horizontal scan rate being the same.

Sean
gunn's Avatar gunn
02:34 AM Liked: 10
post #672 of 1734
08-12-2003 | Posts: 26
Joined: Jul 2003
Hey.... newbie question....

I have Panasonic 42-inch 5uy. I have my htpc hooked up to the VGA in... my native resolution is 852x480. I have an ATI 9700 AIW pro & I am using the catalyst 3.6 drivers.....(which allow me to run @ 852x40 @ 32-bit)

On the very first boot-up (after selecting 852x480) the text in the desktop was crystal clear... after each subsequent reboot, the text seems to be (by my eye) a little fuzzy..


Should I attempt to get powerstrip and have it control the resolution ? Will that take care of the fuzzy text ?

I believe the sight fuzziness to be a driver problem because every once in a while when I reboot, the text is crystal clear, other times, there is a slight fuzz to the text....
lazyremote's Avatar lazyremote
12:39 PM Liked: 10
post #673 of 1734
08-13-2003 | Posts: 3
Joined: Aug 2003
For some time, I have had a computer hooked up to my Mitsubishi WS-55809 (16:9) using S-Video from an old ATI Expert@Play (Rage Pro). Just the desktop for surfing and Internet Radio, works pretty darn good.

Then I got greedy and bought a Radeon 9600 and an HDTV dongle. Using YPbPr, I get a picture on the TV, but it is a virtual desktop with a lot of overscan at all resolutions.

After reading through the posts here for hours, I find myself with a headache and more confused than before.

- The TV has no VGA input, but it does have GRBHV, would that be a better choice?

- Do I *need* Powerstrip to make this work?

Thanks in advance,
Roy
kalahaan's Avatar kalahaan
08:55 PM Liked: 10
post #674 of 1734
08-13-2003 | Posts: 227
Joined: Aug 2001
Would you have the pstrip settings for 1024 x 576 ?
for use with the Mitsubishi 1208 (=toshiba MT500)

and what is necessary to obtain DVI out from a Radeon 9000 with catalyst 3.1

Thanks,
Cedric
Karnis's Avatar Karnis
09:04 PM Liked: 13
post #675 of 1734
08-13-2003 | Posts: 6,862
Joined: Mar 2000
Quote:
Originally posted by lazyremote
- The TV has no VGA input, but it does have RGBHV, would that be a better choice?

__yes, just use a VGA to 5 BNC breakout cable. ~$45.00

- Do I *need* Powerstrip to make this work?

___yes, read the section regarding the HDTV adapter, only a handful of rez work without VD, but you can copy & paste the provided timings.


MurrayW's Avatar MurrayW
11:25 PM Liked: 10
post #676 of 1734
08-13-2003 | Posts: 1,143
Joined: Nov 2001
Quote:
Originally posted by MurrayW
Karnis (or anyone else who knows)

I just started using powerstrip and finally think I understand scan and refresh rates after reading through this entire post and a few others.

In an earlier post you mention that the DTC100 upconverts 480i to 540p. If I run the s-video into a capture card and use Dscaler am I converting 480i to 480p?

The reason that I am curious is that to me the picture on my Mitsubishi MegaView 3717C monitor looks better (brighter and sharper) using s-video and Dscaler to a Radeon 7500 compared to the VGA output directly to the monitor.

It doesn't make sense to me that a 480p signal would look better than a 540p signal. What am I missing?

thanks,

MurrayW

Sorry for the shameless bump, maybe my original post got overlooked. I would appreciate any guidance anyone could give me.

thanks,

MurrayW
WMAMan's Avatar WMAMan
08:26 AM Liked: 10
post #677 of 1734
08-14-2003 | Posts: 132
Joined: Aug 2003
I have a DTC-100 and an ATI All-in-Wonder 8500-DV and noticed the same thing. I think the ATI is just doeing a good job scaling and deinterlacing the video.
galomyr's Avatar galomyr
09:16 AM Liked: 10
post #678 of 1734
08-14-2003 | Posts: 139
Joined: Jul 2003
OK, here is another really "noobish" question, but here we go:

Say you have a 4:3 HDTV Monitor (I.E. a Sony 32HS510, Philips 32PT8320, etc.) and an HTPC.

I want to try and get a really fine picture, but have it in 4:3. If I watch a widescreen DVD in fullscreen, my player will put the black bars on top and bottom anyway, so my desktop will need to be 4:3 still anyway (I can also set it up so that I have another seperate resolution just for widescreen dvd playback I suppose).

My question is, can you use the upper resolutions, but use them at 31.5KHz scan rate? If you do this, for instance say you give it a resolution of 1440x1080i @ 31.5KHz scan rate, will it display a 4:3 non-compressed image? (assuming the TV goes into vertical compression mode if it is fed a 33.75KHz scan rate)

Or, are you stuck to strictly 480i/480p @ 31.5KHz if you want to display a 4:3 image without triggering the vertical compression?



Another question along these lines - if you are using a Sony HS or XBR series television and you turn the vertical compression off via the service menu, feed the TV a resolution of 1440x1080 @ 33.75KHz, will the image looked squashed, or will it look like it is supposed to?

I'm still trying to decide what I want to do! Based on answers to all of these questions I think I will be able to knock out a lot of my questions concerning resolution stuff and just get down to selecting models based on price/performance
lazyremote's Avatar lazyremote
09:37 AM Liked: 10
post #679 of 1734
08-14-2003 | Posts: 3
Joined: Aug 2003
Thanks for the quick reply!

Still using the ATI dongle, I Installed Powerstrip 3.44 build 406, which I think is a beta. I can find no "Paste" button under "display profiles--advanced timings--custom resolutions--user defined". After manually entering the suggested values for 856x480p I am one step closer: No more virtual desktop, only overscan in all directions. The picture is noticably better than S-Video.

However, the controls to adjust the size/position only affect my CRT monitor, not the TV. I can adjust the porches all I want, and the CRT responds, but the TV picture never changes.

I haven't had this much "fun" since resolving resource conflicts and configuring Hi Mem in DOS 6.

ATI should be spanked for releasing this product. How hard would it be to have a choice for something like "Emulate Apex AD-1500"? That thing gets it right every time - and it cost half of what the 9600 does!!
kinetic's Avatar kinetic
11:06 AM Liked: 10
post #680 of 1734
08-14-2003 | Posts: 7
Joined: Jun 2003
Most of those resolutions will suffer from overscan quite badly.

There really is very little you can do with the "actual" resoltion itself as you've found out that the porches only really move the picture around.

The real trick is to find a resolution that works within a resolution

so what I'm talking about is doing something like:

1776x1000i within a 1920x1080i timing.

So on my RPTV I see the full desktop at a super high resolution

I actually have the Connect3D Radeon 9600 and this (and others work quite well) and only needed minor tuning from the base settings at the begining of the thread.

I did however have many hair pulling session with Cat 3.5 and Cat 3.6 drivers. I basically had very little luck getting anything to work. Once I reverted to the Cat 3.4 drivers it all came together.

The only real difficult part was making sure that you had the right amount of lines (563 for a 540p timing and 1125 for a 1080i timing) and forced the scan rates to the correct value.

Then as soon as I moved from my monitor to my PC presto the resolutions worked like a charm

For the record here's what I got working

Connect3D 9600 / AA Transcoder / Panasonic 4x3 51" HDTV Component input

640x480 (image woobles)
640x480 in 540p (image woobles)
720x480 in 540p (zero overscan)
1440x540p (reasonable amount of overscan)
1776x1000i in 1080i (very little overscan)
1920x1080i (massive overscan about (1/8 of screen))

Oh..as for the paste button its one of the icons down in the lower right section where you manually entered the resolution values. Next time cut them out of the email and press the paste icon/button and it will zap right in there.
flagg_b's Avatar flagg_b
12:32 PM Liked: 10
post #681 of 1734
08-14-2003 | Posts: 4
Joined: Aug 2003
Hi Folk, I'm new here and just spend the last few hours of reading this
thread....
The very first one Karalis said he has a transcoder and a HDTV ati Adapter.
That's confusing for me.

I have a AIW 9800 pro and it came with a HDTV component dongle.
(needless to say, I can't get it to work with my Mit HD1080 vs50805,
that's why I'm here)

If you have the dongle what's the transcoder for?

Any tips on getting this to work to my MIT would be appreciated.
I can get it to do the 1920x1080i but it looks like doodo.

Thanks to all.
Brett
Karnis's Avatar Karnis
12:37 PM Liked: 13
post #682 of 1734
08-14-2003 | Posts: 6,862
Joined: Mar 2000
I have used the transcoder, the adapter and direct RGBHV at separate times for separate tests.

I currently use the HDTV adapter on my MITS 55819.

"doodoo" is not the most informative terminology for troubleshooting, please provide more details.
flagg_b's Avatar flagg_b
01:01 PM Liked: 10
post #683 of 1734
08-14-2003 | Posts: 4
Joined: Aug 2003
Karnis, thanks for the quick reply...
doodoo, tho not scientific or precise, means.....

Alot of flicker and text is so fuzzy the screen is barely readable.

Using 480i/p mode (virtual desktop), things are quite clear.
Using ATI's Optimize setting, the res changes to 1776x1000 (as you know)
but the quality of the pic is just as bad.

My experience with HDTV is you can see the goosebumps on skin when viewing a image. With the ATI to HDTV, all I can see is the "fuzz"

I've included a screen shot of the display properties dialog box
and a few Icons next to it so you can get a visual.

Again thank you for your time.
LL
LL
Karnis's Avatar Karnis
01:12 PM Liked: 13
post #684 of 1734
08-14-2003 | Posts: 6,862
Joined: Mar 2000
1920x1080i is not recommended for desktop useage for the reasons you describe/posted, only media playback. I use 856x480p @540p timings for casual desktop viewing. Using the timings I posted I get a nice clear, perfectly fit desktop.
flagg_b's Avatar flagg_b
01:16 PM Liked: 10
post #685 of 1734
08-14-2003 | Posts: 4
Joined: Aug 2003
Is that post the very first one in this thread?
Karnis's Avatar Karnis
01:19 PM Liked: 13
post #686 of 1734
08-14-2003 | Posts: 6,862
Joined: Mar 2000
Yes.
flagg_b's Avatar flagg_b
01:25 PM Liked: 10
post #687 of 1734
08-14-2003 | Posts: 4
Joined: Aug 2003
I would have figured since the TV can display text on a piece of paper
in a movie, that it should handle this just fine, apparently not...
(Is this a popular misconception)?

I'll try your settings as posted tomorrow.
The wife's taking me out for a b-day dinner somewheres in jersey.

I'll post my results for any/all who care.....

Thank be to you karnis for your help...
(i've been watching way too much stargate)

Enjoy the day..>!
Vidguy's Avatar Vidguy
01:32 PM Liked: 10
post #688 of 1734
08-14-2003 | Posts: 161
Joined: Jul 2002
Quote:


Originally posted by galomyr
OK, here is another really "noobish" question, but here we go:

Say you have a 4:3 HDTV Monitor (I.E. a Sony 32HS510, Philips 32PT8320, etc.) and an HTPC.

*I have a Sony KP61HS30. It's a RP 61" 4:3 HDTV that does the squeeze automatically when a 33.75 KHz scan rate is sensed.

I want to try and get a really fine picture, but have it in 4:3. If I watch a widescreen DVD in fullscreen, my player will put the black bars on top and bottom anyway, so my desktop will need to be 4:3 still anyway (I can also set it up so that I have another seperate resolution just for widescreen dvd playback I suppose).

*I do this. On this size TV the extra resolution makes a noticeable improvement. Watching a widescreen DVD in full screen with black bars generated by the player wastes resolution in the black bars. The extra resolution will not be as noticeable on a 32" set.

My question is, can you use the upper resolutions, but use them at 31.5KHz scan rate? If you do this, for instance say you give it a resolution of 1440x1080i @ 31.5KHz scan rate, will it display a 4:3 non-compressed image? (assuming the TV goes into vertical compression mode if it is fed a 33.75KHz scan rate)

Or, are you stuck to strictly 480i/480p @ 31.5KHz if you want to display a 4:3 image without triggering the vertical compression?

*You can use 960i at 31.5 KHz. You might be able to get 1000i working also, but you will have more overscan.



Another question along these lines - if you are using a Sony HS or XBR series television and you turn the vertical compression off via the service menu, feed the TV a resolution of 1440x1080 @ 33.75KHz, will the image looked squashed, or will it look like it is supposed to?

*I don't think automatic vertical compression can be turned of in the service menu on my Sony. But if you could, the appearance your image would depend on the source aspect ratio (i.e. a 4:3 DVD would look correct unsquished, and a widescreen DVD would look tall unsquished). I set up separate Powerstrip T&Rs for 4:3 vs. widescreen DVDs and just use the correct one for the DVD aspect ratio.

I'm still trying to decide what I want to do! Based on answers to all of these questions I think I will be able to knock out a lot of my questions concerning resolution stuff and just get down to selecting models based on price/performance


jimwhite's Avatar jimwhite
02:03 PM Liked: 10
post #689 of 1734
08-14-2003 | Posts: 5,372
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts like the one above are virtually useless..... who is saying what?


lazyremote's Avatar lazyremote
02:26 PM Liked: 10
post #690 of 1734
08-14-2003 | Posts: 3
Joined: Aug 2003
Thanks

Found the paste button - Duh!

Tried the 3.4 Catalyst but saw no difference from 3.6 in any resolution or timing settings. I guess my $3000 Mitsubishi is what ATI considers a "Low Quality HDTV", because the overscan persists.

I can compensate by manipulating the desktop and windows. This takes some getting used to, but it works. I have yet to decide whether I like it any better than the somewhat fuzzy but full desktop using S-Video, though.

Appreciate the advice on this forum.

Time to give it a rest.. I need to get out of the house, see the sun again.

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