Custom Resolution Guide for 1080i HDTV-HTPC-POWERSTRIP-RADEON - Page 28 - AVS Forum
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post #811 of 1734 Old 09-25-2003, 10:13 AM
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I have a 65" Mits and use the 960x540 timings/powerstrip/VGA to TV.
The Mits displays 1080i when I connect this way.When watching satellite
thru DScaler or powerstrip it seems to take the "stretch" out of the way

...Oh yea, I'm using an older VIVO Radeon card, PC says it's a 7200.
ATI TV VE capture card for Dscaler.

BigNasty
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post #812 of 1734 Old 09-25-2003, 11:27 AM
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Just a note, but I just finished building the DIY transcoder and tested it last night. Wow - it looks great! I would say that it is just as good as the dongle - and with a lot more resolutions. And it cost me about $85 to build!
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post #813 of 1734 Old 09-25-2003, 02:58 PM
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I want to double-check whether this tweak is okay. I have created a custom resolution of 720x530, making sure that the total number of vertical lines is still 563, at Horizontal scan rate=33.75kHz and Vertical refresh rate=59.947Hz (540p timing, right?). This lets me correct for too much overscanning at the top of the screen by further playing with the vertical adjustments (always maintaining Vtotal=563 lines).

I have both measured the black bars and have taken pictures of the same paused scene during DVD playback through the HTPC and through my Toshiba DVD player, and everything seems to be virtually identical (it wasn't before). Also, my WinTV image now more closely resembles what I would get if I fed the RF/coax signal straight from my Cable box to my HDTV set; whereas before, the image looked stretched vertically and the top was chopped off.

I can add the resolution to PowerDVD (or WinTV) as an application profile in Powerstrip and launch PowerDVD (WinTV) right from Powerstrip (right-click and select the profile). When the application exits, I return to my 720x540p desktop.

Anyone see a problem with using a resolution of 530 vertical lines (with 563 total @ 540p timings)? I recall reading other people playing similar tricks to deal with too much horizontal overscan, but Karnis really counsels against vertical tweaking in his guide, so I want to make sure...

(Karnis, I'd really like to hear your opinion.)

"Test everything; hold on to the good."
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post #814 of 1734 Old 09-25-2003, 04:07 PM - Thread Starter
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You are doing it just right, create a custom res to correct vertical overscan instead of adjusting the vertical size.
However, if you have a 16x9 set and your vertical rez is 530p, your rez should be 944x530p as 530x1.78 rounds out to 944...if its 4x3 it should be 704...must be a multiple of 8. This gives you square pixels.
Now you get to start answering support questions.
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post #815 of 1734 Old 09-25-2003, 05:14 PM
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Jim,
I have a Hitachi 57T500 connected to a 2.6G P4 with a Radeon 9800/DVI. What I have found is that I am able to get 1920x1080, 1280x1024, 800x600, and 640x480 to work with the 3.7 Catalyst drivers WITHOUT powerstrip installed. However, when I install powerstrip I can no longer get any of those resolutions to work. I should also note that with the above resolutions I get massive overscan making the desktop almost unusable and they are all interlaced which makes for a very very ugly desktop.
Using PowerStrip I was able to get the resolutions Nagorak listed for his Hitachi SWX 57 on page 5 of this thread to work. Those resolutions are all progressive and look great. However, as I stated before, once I install Powerstrip I can no longer get the 1920x1080, 1280x1024, 1024x768, or 800x600 resolutions to work. All of those are required by my older games. It has been suggested in this thread that disabling memory tiling on the Radeon will fix this problem, but it didn't work for me. What I don't understand is why I cannot get those resolutions to work when powerstrip is installed. Since I uninstalled and reinstalled powerstrip/catalyst I have not been able to get Nagorak's resolutions to work. I'm worried powerstrip may have corrupted something in the registry or elsewhere. I'm at the point where I'm about ready to give up and go back to s-video.
I think you should be able to get at least one of the resolutions you listed to work using the DVI output, but you may not be happy with the results. I'm going to play around with this some more tonight and post if I make any more progress.
-Shawn

Quote:


Originally posted by jkuwik
I ordered a Hitachi 60v500 and expect to receive Saturday. I also purchased an ATI 9800 w/DVI and installed it on my 2.4 GHZ PC with hopes to do the following:
1) Provide the TV a "digital" non-hdcp(?) signal from my PC via the ATI 9800 and the DVI out.
2) Use powerstrip (already loaded) to achieve one or more of the following resolutions (1920x1080i x 60hz, 1280x720p x 60hz, 1366x768p x 60hz Hitachi's native resolution) over the DVI out.
[/b]

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post #816 of 1734 Old 09-28-2003, 11:31 AM
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Haven't seen much on "resolution in a resolution" but that's precisely what I needed.

It seems that my HD monitor assumes that inputs with DTV timings must be Component Video regardless of input connections or display settings. So forget trying to send RGB computer video packaged in DTV timings.

I have found that creating a 1024x576 letterboxed desktop within 1024x768 VESA timings is ideal for driving my 1024x1024 (16:9) plasma. Letterbox Zoom expands the Postage Stamp image to perfectly fill the screen.

I created a new resolution using 1024x768 as a base, added 96 each to VFP and VBP, subtracted 192 from Vrez, and corrected the Hsync and frame rate. Sounds easy but it hurt my brain figuring it out.

PowerStrip timing parameters:
1024x576=1024,40,136,144,576,99,6,125,64968,2054

Generic timing details for 1024x576:
HFP=40 HSW=136 HBP=144 kHz=48 VFP=99 VSW=6 VBP=125 Hz=60

Linux modeline parameters:
"1024x576" 64.968 1024 1064 1200 1344 576 675 681 806 -hsync -vsync

Bart
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post #817 of 1734 Old 09-28-2003, 05:42 PM
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I'm using the DVI from my ATI Radeon 9200 to my Toshiba 65H83 and have gotten 720p and 1080i to work fairly well. The one major problem I'm still having is that every time I switch between the various resolutions, the screen starts at a different location each time. The desktop is vertically shifted (with the screen wrapping around) when I change resolutions. It does not scroll, it's just shifted up or down. Most of the time it will be in the correct vertical position after I reboot and Powerstrip is loaded.

Any thoughts? I've listed my Powerstrip settings below:

PowerStrip timing parameters:
1920x1080=1920,168,48,160,1080,2,20,24,77490,15

Generic timing details for 1920x1080:
HFP=168 HSW=48 HBP=160 kHz=34 VFP=2 VSW=20 VBP=24 Hz=30

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

PowerStrip timing parameters:
1280x720=1280,214,64,162,720,4,10,16,77550,1

Generic timing details for 1280x720:
HFP=214 HSW=64 HBP=162 kHz=45 VFP=4 VSW=10 VBP=16 Hz=60
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post #818 of 1734 Old 09-28-2003, 05:47 PM - Thread Starter
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Make sure you have the latest version of Powerstrip.
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post #819 of 1734 Old 09-28-2003, 07:59 PM
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Quote:


Make sure you have the latest version of Powerstrip.

I'm using PowerStrip 3.45 (unregistered for now). Unless they've released something in the last couple of days, I think this is the latest version.
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post #820 of 1734 Old 09-30-2003, 03:15 PM
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DiMora;

I can't assist in all your questions, but maybe can help on the VGA port.

Mits documentation says the vga port is only to be used for 640x480. However, people report being able to get multiple resolutions through the port, but most of those seem to be later models. Now I don't really think you could damage anything, but who knows? Certainly the least expensive test would be to go straight to vga and see what you can get.

But, if it was me, I'd go component to the DTV input and forget about the vga port.

Sorry this is 5 days after your post, I just stumbled across it.

Regards

P
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post #821 of 1734 Old 09-30-2003, 07:44 PM
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Ok, I've been following this all closely and here's my sitch.

Mits 65313, radeon 8500le with the dreaded vga to hdtv dongle, latest CATs and latest powerstrip.

Using the custom resolutions from Karnis's guide I've settled on 856x480 because it's big enough and does away with the stupid virtual desktop thing.

What I was doing wrong but I didn't figure out until today: I wasn't enabling frequency locking when screwing with the adjustments and porch settings. So what I wound up with was a mediocre looking picture at 480p 31.63mhz. Today I was screwing around a little more and set the freq to 33.75 and locked it, then made my adjustments. Suddenly I'm in 1080i and everything is much sharper and looks 'better'. But 2 major problems have popped up.

A) The 1080 picture is SUPER bright. Everything is washed out to oblivion. I lowered the tv brightness to 0, the ATI color setting for brightness to 0, and the powerstrip settings to brightness 0, gamma 0 and contrast about half way. It's still freaky bright - twice as bright as the 480p picture and all the color is really washed out. So I have a sharper picture, with no overscan, that looks crappy on movies. Movies look great at 480p (color wise).

B) After going to 1080 and setting my porches... the geometry of the screens looks wrong. Take the powerstip windows for example... its skewed slightly to the right when it gets closer to the bottom of the picture. Sometimes if I jack the porches too much, the top part of the screen will bend and distort the images. I guess I could take pictures, but it's pretty much bending the images.

my settings right now are 33.7 scan, 64.286 refresh. horiz sync is 72 and vert sync is 6. If I screw with those syncs too much it makes the screen go nuts. (for tonight I set the scan down to 31.6 so I could watch a movie without going blind or insane)


Help! 1080 looks SO good with text and web browsing but so lousy color wise... plus all my windows are bent. 480 has good color, no bending, but text is mediocre and I can't get the overscan under control at all no matter what I do with the porches.

At best I would like to make 1080 color and brightness friendly and deal with the bendy-warpy action. At worst I would like to get the overscan under control in 480p cause it is nuts (and almost all of my overscan pain is horizontal, vertical is just a little out of wack - I can see enough of the taskbar to switch apps and such.

TIA
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post #822 of 1734 Old 10-01-2003, 05:08 AM - Thread Starter
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refresh rate is too high. Values for 856x480p should be:
33.75Khz scan rate
48 horizontal sync width
563 vertical line total
59.947 refresh rate

1920x1080i should be:
33.75KHz
56 HSW
1125 vertical line total
30Hz refresh rate
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post #823 of 1734 Old 10-01-2003, 07:14 AM
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Quote:
I'm using the DVI from my ATI Radeon 9200 to my Toshiba 65H83 and have gotten 720p and 1080i to work fairly well. The one major problem I'm still having is that every time I switch between the various resolutions, the screen starts at a different location each time. The desktop is vertically shifted (with the screen wrapping around) when I change resolutions. It does not scroll, it's just shifted up or down. Most of the time it will be in the correct vertical position after I reboot and Powerstrip is loaded.

No thoughts on why my image is vertically shifted each time I change resolutions? Anything at all to try out?

Thanks,
Sean
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post #824 of 1734 Old 10-01-2003, 08:16 AM - Thread Starter
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Don't have a DVI set sorry.
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post #825 of 1734 Old 10-02-2003, 01:41 PM
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In reply to my own post about the super bright bendy screen on my mits 65313 + radeon 8500le + ati dongle @ 856x480:

No amount of screwing with the refresh was able to get the overscan under control. So I deleted all the custom resolutions and started over.

I used Karnis's mitsubishi driver file he provided much earlier in this thread and started at 704x480 (no virtual desktop).

This is what I wound up with:

PowerStrip timing parameters:
704x480=704,29,72,51,480,23,6,50,29049,278

Generic timing details for 704x480:
HFP=29 HSW=72 HBP=51 kHz=34 VFP=23 VSW=6 VBP=50 Hz=61

Linux modeline parameters:
"704x480" 29.049 704 733 805 856 480 503 509 559 -hsync -vsync

Ok. Overscan is perfect and geometry is good, no more bendy windows. Way too bright tho. So instead of jacking with the brightness controls in powerstrip, I did it on my tv. Brightness 0, Contrast 15, color 25, tint dead even, sharpness 0. The nice thing about this set is all these settings are saved independant of the other inputs, so they all look fine.

Still have to use powerstrip, otherwise it comes up in 480p and butt ugly. But after powerstrip loads, it is a sight to see in 1080i. The defects in my divx movies are now glaringly huge everything is so crystal clear. But that is a beatiful desktop... I could do word on this all day long now.

So everyone, thanks for your help, and maybe someone else can benefit from my mistakes.

On a side note, unfortunately I couldn't get any of Nintari's resolutions to work at all, so I don't know how much gaming I'll be doing on this thing.

-Burticus
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post #826 of 1734 Old 10-02-2003, 03:31 PM - Thread Starter
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Try the posted 856x480p (for the adapter) for a better desktop rez.
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post #827 of 1734 Old 10-02-2003, 03:48 PM
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I was doing that earlier and couldn't get the overscan under control. I might give it another shot.

I just had another thought... I'm screwed if I want to play mame (for example) because any other resolution is gonna look wacky!

WAH! I didn't even think of that. What a pain in the buttocks.

Powerstrip is useful but what a pain to deal with. I mean, none of this would be necessary if ATI would just fix their drivers, right?
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post #828 of 1734 Old 10-06-2003, 04:15 PM
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I made the move from my gforce4 to an ATI AIW 9000 and had a hell of a time to get the AIW working on my Panny RPTV and Powerstrip.

After removing nvidia card and drivers, installing ATI Card and drivers (3.7) I went to powestrip and could no0t get any 540p or 1080i timing working (everytime I tried it it would change the timings from 33.75 to something like 35.2 and if I tried correcting it it would change the vert sync.

I finally got it working by going into the XP Control Panel and on ATI driver limitng the refresh rate on the Monitor to 60Hz.

So I now have 480p and 540p working again, but I'm having problems with 1080i interlaced rez.

for 800x600 and 1024x760 I get an image that is roughly half the screen (terrible underscan) and way to much flicker. I know flicker is the norm on interlaced desktop but I didn't think this much... is the underscan normal for these resolutions? I was hopping I could play some games with interlaced rez...

One final question? should I try the 3.4 drivers to get interlaced with tiling and can I just go back to these drivers for just display and leaving the rest of the AIW drivers in 3.7?

___________
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post #829 of 1734 Old 10-06-2003, 04:35 PM
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If you manually change the vert refresh to 33.75 it auto changes the horiz refresh to some jacked up out of sync number. You have to copy the res to the clipboard, then use the copy from clipboard icon option in powerstrip/custom resolution. That is the only way I could get mine to match up (only took me 3 days to figure that out). I did this so frequently (had to re-do it if I screwed the porches or the geometry up) I ended up putting it into a txt file and left it on my desktop.

Powerstrip is a required tool, but evil it is. I love how mine just changes settings no reason on reboot about 1 in 5 times and I have to recopy that custom res text file back into it. I could be an idiot and am doing something wrong, but it doesn't help that powerstrip isn't terribly intuitive and there are just way too many options for the newbie to screw something up with.

OH - I can't stress this enough. Once you get your 1080 feed at a decent refresh rates and you're working on your geometry and porches, you MUST check the box that says lock frequencies or it will change the freqencies when you try to adjust your screen (which leads to hours of frustration, trust me).

I am not running with interlaced driver option. I don't know how useful that is on the newer catalysts.

I was never able to get a decent running 1024x768. But this might be a dongle problem, I dunno.

Nintari has his own web site devoted to getting games and 1024x768 to work with the ati cards, but I couldn't get it to fly. Maybe his TV is a little more forgiving with the refresh rates.

http://www.mrmicro.net/joshua1/index.htm
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post #830 of 1734 Old 10-07-2003, 01:03 AM
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Hey everyone, This thread was a b1tch to read through!!!
Well i have my HTPC working great with my ATI Dongle. Now my question is regarding Zoom Player. I am currently using Zoom Player to play my DVD's in 1920x1080i correced to 960i. So I use a video preset of x offest 0, y offset 60, x size 1920 and y size 960. Using this, as expected, there is slight underscan vertically on my tv. Now i know that the prefered way to fix this is to enter the service menu and expand the verticle to compensate. Well a slight problem is that i do not know how to enter the service menu on my set. This really wouldn't be a problem, but that small underscan is not black but a shade of gray that is very obvious when playing 2.35 and 1.85 movies because the small amount of grey contrasts the true black of the anamorphic black bars. Now for my actual question, is there a way to have zoom player's background a true black so that the small amout of space that the movie does not take up will just extend the black bars of the movie? Or, how do i change the background color of the zoom player?
Thanks

PS. I understand that 960i is desirable because it is perfect 2x scaling of a dvd vertically, but how is 1920 desirable? Wouldn't something like 1440 be better?

TV: Philips 30" HDTV 30PW850H
Video Card: ATI Radeon 9700 with ATI Dongle

Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today. Teach a man to fish; and you have fed him for a lifetime
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post #831 of 1734 Old 10-07-2003, 11:49 AM
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Wow, that was indeed a long thread to read through. I'm having a bit of a problem, possibly with PowerStrip or possibly with my video card drivers, and I was hoping someone would have suggestions. I was using an ATI Radeon 7000 with latest drivers (3.7), etc, with Powerstrip latest (3.45), and had no problems after I finally figured out how to get my Zenith C27V22 to take the >480p input. Everything was working just fine, I could switch through resolutions without issue, and could make real-time adjustments with PowerStrip to adjust refresh, move porches, etc. But, my games were running a bit slow on that card.

So, I upgraded to a Radeon 8500LE, and all my problems started. I did the smart thing and first uninstalled the video drivers, booted into VGA mode, installed the video drivers again, and got a fine 640X480 picture. Great. Tried to switch to my pre-defined resolutions that were set up for the 7000, and nothing happens. No resolution change whatsoever, and the settings in PowerStrip are uneditable. I thought it may have been my pre-defined resolutions that gave the problem, so I deleted them, but I was still unable to select one of the pre-defined resolutions and switch to it. So, I uninstalled PowerStrip, removed all PowerStrip settings from the registry, rebooted and reinstalled, but I was still unable to change resolutions. Finally opened my Windows 2000 display panel, and was able to change resolutions there, and it used the PowerStrip settings for the custom resolutions I'd added there.

So, I'm able to switch resolutions that way, but there's no way for me to adjust any settings on the fly, as all scan rates, porches, etc are locked and can't be edited. The only way to change any of this is to copy PowerStrip settings to my clipboard and paste them in as a new custom resolution. Which sucks, because most of the >480p resolutions come out to 33.8x hz, which doesn't quite sync up properly (top few lines run up in a strange way, kind of hard to explain).

I've tried redefining my monitor, that didn't help, tried all the settings I could think of for both ATI and PowerStrip, and feel that I must be missing something simple here. On the plus side, I can finally play Vice City at full frame in glorious 640x480p, but would rather up the resolution and use the full extent of my HDTV. Does anyone have any suggestions? Thanks!

--Rick
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post #832 of 1734 Old 10-07-2003, 02:30 PM
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Just a stab in the dark here, but make sure you're using either the shareware or a registered version of Powerstrip. If you use a cracked one you won't be able to make geometry adjustments or maintain them since it won't kick off on startup (and being in the startup group wasn't enough). Not acusing anyone of anything, just sayin'.

Other than that, I'd have to say that is odd. Are you using the dongle, another kind of transcoder, or a direct connection to the tv?

Oh - if you're dual-heading try setting with only a monitor attached and then hook up your tv... I had some wierd stuff going on when I was dual heading which doesn't happen if I just use either the monitor or the tv instead of both at the same time.

Also - I may be the only one on earth to have this problem, but my 1080 feed was MEGA bright and I had to make serious adjustments to make it ok. It's fine now, but if it syncs back down to 480 (using my low brightness settings) it looks god awful. So I don't know if it's feasible to have your 640x480 @ 480 for games use the same TV settings as your desktop 1080i feed.... I have a mits 65313 so like I said, maybe it's just me. I don't have a HD tuner to see if it's as bright on 1080 to compare with.
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post #833 of 1734 Old 10-07-2003, 03:59 PM
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Thanks for the info Burticus, I'm using the shareware version from the PS site. I'm using the direct VGA > RGB connection, but I do have it set up to also use the S-Video out to the TV as well, so I can switch to a viewable format if the HD connection doesn't sync right. That way I can switch to S-Video in, make adjustments, and switch back to HD-RGB in, and see the results. This worked fine on the 7000, but I'll drag a monitor downstairs to see if that makes a difference (or just unplug the S-Video and reboot).

BTW, I can see both 480p and 1080i feeds without any brightness problems, I just can't adjust the refresh on the 1080i to make it usable. The top three or so lines of horizontal pixels skews sharply up to the left side, which I'm sure can be corrected by adjusting the refresh as it looked fine on the 7000 when I could adjust to 33.75. Anyhow, this forum has been very helpful, in both choosing an affordable HDTV and in hooking it up and using PowerStrip timings, y'all really know your stuff! I'll report back results of going with a single display tomorrow, after I've had a chance to try it at home. Thanks!
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post #834 of 1734 Old 10-07-2003, 06:17 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by burticus
[b]Just a stab in the dark here, but make sure you're using either the shareware or a registered version of Powerstrip. If you use a cracked one you won't be able to make geometry adjustments or maintain them since it won't kick off on startup (and being in the startup group wasn't enough). Not acusing anyone of anything, just sayin'.

I'm not advocating using a 'cracked' version but what your are saying is incorrect. There maybe poorer cracked versions, but I've seen PS work fine in that form, all functions including geometry and start-up.

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post #835 of 1734 Old 10-07-2003, 10:08 PM
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I am by no means an expert on any of this, I am just relaying what I went through for 40+ hours trying to get my stuff to work right without overscan or virtual desktop.
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post #836 of 1734 Old 10-08-2003, 01:22 AM
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I have an idea but I do not know if it will be possible using the ATI dongle. Since you can have say a 480p resolution at 540p to compensate for overscan, and all tv's that can do 1080i can do 540p becuase they are the same scan rates. Would it be possibe to have a 960i resolution running at 480p timings for dvd viewing? I ask this becuase the underscan using 1080i corrected to 960i is not acceptable and i cannot adjust my set. It seems like this would be possibe but I am not sure with the ATI dongle. I could live with any overscan that the dvd would produce, but I would like to have the dvd scaled evenly. Any thoughts, particularily karnis? BTW, thanks for all the time and effort you put in to make this guide and continuing to answer people's questions.

Ryan

PS. Since a normal tv is basically a 480i resolution, are normal tv's able to accept a resolution, say 240p? If so, would it be possibe to make a progressive VCR that would output a progressive signal that scans all lines of resolution of a vcr tape at once? Would that even look better? I know that there would be 0.001% demand for something like that, but it would be interesting.

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post #837 of 1734 Old 10-08-2003, 05:52 AM
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I, also, have often wondered about a 960i (30Hz Vert) at 480p (60Hz Vert) timing....


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post #838 of 1734 Old 10-08-2003, 04:41 PM - Thread Starter
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"Since a normal tv is basically a 480i resolution, are normal tv's able to accept a resolution, say 240p?"
Yes, this is how the first Playstation worked.
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post #839 of 1734 Old 10-08-2003, 04:46 PM
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What about getting a 960i resolution at a 480p timing for dvd viewing?

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post #840 of 1734 Old 10-08-2003, 05:31 PM - Thread Starter
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31.5KHz scan rate, 30Hz refresh rate, 1050 total vertical lines.
Since I use the ATi HDTV adapter I can't create this type of rez or test it, sorry. Go for it. However, if you want to do this for DVD, just use TheaterTek and adjust the aspect ratio to compensate for the underscan at 1080i. That's what I do.
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