Custom Resolution Guide for 1080i HDTV-HTPC-POWERSTRIP-RADEON - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 1734 Old 01-16-2003, 07:18 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by thomasamiller
gsr- Can you tell me more about this and paste your custom timings so I can try them? I did a search of the forum and found nothing. Please paste all your timings and let me know how it all works. I have the Mits ws-65869 and have not yet tried any custom settings. I am curious how you made this work!!

Follow the instructions posted by Karnis at the top of this thread - those are the timings I'm using.
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post #92 of 1734 Old 01-16-2003, 08:56 PM
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Hi Karnis,

I changed my monitor to the Sony GDM and I eliminated the "virtual desktop" but now I have severe flicker. I thought that might be due to scan or refresh rates, so I tried modifying both with no success.

What should I look at to eliminate the flicker?

thanks in advance!
gcb

btw - my PC's running Win2k Pro, latest PowerStrip, ATI Radeon 8500LE w/Catalyst 2.5 and component dongle.
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post #93 of 1734 Old 01-16-2003, 08:59 PM - Thread Starter
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What rez do you have flicker? If its 1920x1080i, that's to be expected. Interlaced rez on a HTPC desktop is pretty ugly. How does 848x480p @540p timings look?
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post #94 of 1734 Old 01-16-2003, 09:23 PM
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I haven't read this whole thread, but here are some resolutions I've come up with that might be useful to someone.

All of these are for Radeon cards (Radeon 9500 specifically, but I don't think it should matter what exact model you have). I got all these running with a DVI connection to my Hitachi SWX 57 inch TV. The overscan adjusted resolutions are the least amount of overscan I could get on the SWX, while still having no underscan whatsoever.

480p, 4:3 mode

standard
640x480=640,40,96,24,480,8,2,35,25250,3094

overscan adjusted (Hitachi SWX 57)
600x450=600,48,96,24,450,23,2,50,24196,3094

480p, widescreen mode

standard
853x480=853,21,85,106,480,1,3,13,31758,7

overscan adjusted
784x444=784,80,80,104,444,0,3,51,32994,3094

540p, widescreen mode

standard
960x540=960,20,40,92,540,7,1,15,37250,3088

overscan adjusted
880x496=880,112,40,96,496,25,1,41,37823,3088

720p, widescreen mode

standard
1280x720=1280,56,136,192,720,1,3,22,74481,1

overscan adjusted
1200x676=1200,192,136,184,676,24,3,43,76719,3088

1920*540
1920x540=1920,232,40,264,540,2,5,15,82890,3088
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post #95 of 1734 Old 01-16-2003, 10:18 PM
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Ok something just occured to me as I was working on figuring this all out (besides the fact that all this gained knowledge will be useless in a year or so when this process is plug and play..) Part of my goal is setting up my HTPC is to get HDTV playback from recorded files. However, if I am only going to get 480p (at 580p timings) on my Mits ws-65905, then can I really play back these files at 1080i HD resolutions? For that matter, can normal HD even be played at full rez using a OTA HD card like MyHD? (which I'm currently planning on, yell if I smoking something for leaning towards it).
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post #96 of 1734 Old 01-16-2003, 10:27 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by kslim
Are people doing 480p with 540p timing mainly to resolve overscan issues ?
Ken

Quote:


Originally posted by Karnis
Exactly. Due to overscan issues only about 480p or so lines (960i) are displayed. You almost must account for the vertical blanking area. So by running 480p at 540p timings you (a) eliminate vertical overscan and (b) enjoy the benefits of the higher scan rate 33.75KHz.

Hi Wayne:

Welcome back.

I assume your response applies to 16:9 HDTVs. I've got a 4:3 HDTV so in order for me to be able to display at full screen without any bars I guess I need to stick with 480p timings? Whenever my Mitsubishi senses a 540p timing it does an anamorphic squeeze and letterboxes the image on my 4:3 display.

Larry



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post #97 of 1734 Old 01-16-2003, 11:20 PM
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Quote:


I assume your response applies to 16:9 HDTVs. I've got a 4:3 HDTV so in order for me to be able to display at full screen without any bars I guess I need to stick with 480p timings? Whenever my Mitsubishi senses a 540p timing it does an anamorphic squeeze and letterboxes the image on my 4:3 display.

Well, it depends on what you're trying to do. I guess for just the desktop, you might want to stick to 4:3 480p, but for 16:9 and letterbox DVD's, you would want to use the 16:9 540p timing with anamorphic squeeze, so you don't waste scanlines drawing the letterbox bars.
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post #98 of 1734 Old 01-17-2003, 04:29 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by JKohn
Well, it depends on what you're trying to do. I guess for just the desktop, you might want to stick to 4:3 480p, but for 16:9 and letterbox DVD's, you would want to use the 16:9 540p timing with anamorphic squeeze, so you don't waste scanlines drawing the letterbox bars.

Hi John:

Thanks for your response.

Yes, I should have been clearer. For my 4:3 HDTV I use a modified version of Wayne's 848x480p timings with 525 total lines to line-double standard NTSC satellite programming and full screen DVDs.

For anamorphic DVDs I use a 960x540p timing with 563 total lines. This gives me a great image letter-boxed on my 4:3 display.

For my Windows desktop I believe I use a 900x500p resolution with 480 timings. (I'm not at home to confirm this statement.)

For letter-boxed non-anamorphic DVDs I use the 960x540p timing and YxY to correct the squished aspect ratio.

In my initial, poorly worded question, I was trying to confirm that running at 4:3 full screen and using the "480 timing within a 540 timing" to correct overscan were mutually exclusive on 4:3 HDTVs that do the anamorphic squeeze.

Thanks.

Larry



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post #99 of 1734 Old 01-17-2003, 06:17 AM
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curtisb - you are an early adopter just like me with a no aspect control WS-65905.

I have a MyHD connected to my 65905 and it works in full HD splendor.

Do not hesitate. But one one now. I am very happy.

What the MyHD puts out is not under PowerStrip control. The PowerStrip mods are only for playing DVDs with WinDVD/PowerDVD thru your video card and its timings.

MyHD does 1080i perfectly. And for shows that are lower resolution HD, it outputs those perfectly also.

Thanks, Les Caudle
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post #100 of 1734 Old 01-17-2003, 09:18 AM
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Quote:


In my initial, poorly worded question, I was trying to confirm that running at 4:3 full screen and using the "480 timing within a 540 timing" to correct overscan were mutually exclusive on 4:3 HDTVs that do the anamorphic squeeze.

If your set automatically does the squeeze for 1080i/540p then I think what you're saying is correct.
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post #101 of 1734 Old 01-17-2003, 09:23 AM
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Karnis,

This is to thank you for your post over at Rage3d to Catalyst Maker!

I read your guide and every post on this Thread since I saw your message over at Rage3d! thanks.

I have a Mit WS-65908 and using the ATI AIW 8500 DVI to HDTV adapter with no success due to overscan problems.

I have not yet learned how to use your guide and PowerStrip although.

Will the guide and PowerStrip work with the DVI to HDTV adapter?

And should I be using the DVI to VGA adapter and inputing to the WS-65908 VGA port instead? Last time I tried to use the VGA adapter and Mit VGA input I could only get somthing like 640X480 resolution?

Your knowledge and information is the best on the ATI problem.

JerryW
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post #102 of 1734 Old 01-17-2003, 09:30 AM - Thread Starter
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Jerry:
I do not use the ATi dongle at this time as I have a 9000pro, and I think the dongle is severly limited to what it can do.
So, I have no idea if the adapter will work with the timings I've posted. Sometime in the near future I plan on upgrading to a 9500 and I'll get a dongle to play with & see what it can do.
It may be more expensive but for the best in control, flexibility and no-restrictions I recommend a transcoder if your set only has component inputs.
I have a 55819 mits with no VGA input, but it does have the RGBHV, so if your set has that connection all you need is a VGA-to-BNC breakout cable, add the RCA adapters & you are good to go. All you need at that point is Powerstrip and the guide I posted.
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post #103 of 1734 Old 01-17-2003, 09:48 AM
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Karnis:

Thanks for the quick reply.

This Mit WS-65908 has a VGA, two(2) component inputs and a DTV input that can be either RGB sync on green or RGB +H&V. From you note I could use the RGB +H&V then as an input from a VGA to RGB adapter. So the AIW Radeon 8500 would have a DVI to VGA to RGB adapter. Darn I should have bought the AIW Radeon 8500DV it has a VGA port instead of a DVI port. I'll try it, only problem might be the text resolutions, I supose the movies will look ok.

It makes one wonder what ATI was thinking about with the HDTV dongle, hell it don't work at all.

thanks again,

JerryW
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post #104 of 1734 Old 01-17-2003, 10:21 AM - Thread Starter
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Actually Jerry, just use the VGA breakout cable. So your AIW 8500 would go/ DVI to VGA adapter/ to breakout cable/ into the RGBHV DTV input.
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post #105 of 1734 Old 01-18-2003, 02:52 PM
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I need help I have spent hours and hours and still cannot figure it out.
I have a Mitsubishi 55908 tv and the ati Ati all in wonder 9700 pro card.
I have connected the pc to the tv with the component video cable, and the picture that I get on the tv is good but zoomed in alot the res is 720 x 480.
The only settings that will work on the tv is 480i and 480p when I switch to the other ones it is goes blank. I am confused on the duel monitor settup also.
Should the monitor be turned off and the YpbPr turned on in the Ati displays menu or should the monitor be secondary and the YpbPr primary when I am using the Tv. I am not trying to use both at once.
I have also tried powerstrip 3.3 with no help. I have did the custom resolution at the top with no help it will only except 34 by 60 and that comes out the same as without powerstrip.
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post #106 of 1734 Old 01-19-2003, 12:02 AM
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I'm no expert, and haven't tried PS. I did get this working by setting YpbPr to Primary in the ATI display page, the turning off the monitor on that page, leaving YpbPr as the only active output. Then I went to the Adapter page, chose 'list all modes' and chose 640x480@60hz. That got the HDTV working ok, although I've still got too much overscan...


----------------


I need help I have spent hours and hours and still cannot figure it out.
I have a Mitsubishi 55908 tv and the ati Ati all in wonder 9700 pro card.
I have connected the pc to the tv with the component video cable, and the picture that I get on the tv is good but zoomed in alot the res is 720 x 480.
The only settings that will work on the tv is 480i and 480p when I switch to the other ones it is goes blank. I am confused on the duel monitor settup also.
Should the monitor be turned off and the YpbPr turned on in the Ati displays menu or should the monitor be secondary and the YpbPr primary when I am using the Tv. I am not trying to use both at once.
I have also tried powerstrip 3.3 with no help. I have did the custom resolution at the top with no help it will only except 34 by 60 and that comes out the same as without powerstrip.
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post #107 of 1734 Old 01-19-2003, 03:12 AM
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Quote:


It makes one wonder what ATI was thinking about with the HDTV dongle, hell it don't work at all.

The dongle does work. I have success with this adapter for 720x480 @ 540p timings (DVD), 856x480 @ 540p timings (99.9% square pixels), and 1152x648 @ 720p timings (timings provided by ATI). These modes work fine for me without the virtual desktop panning or overscans.

The timings Karnis provided would not work for me as my HDTV would interpret them as 480p source format. In my case, the problem was in the width of the horizontal sync pulse. I had to readjust the width of the horizontal sync pulse to 1uS (Closer to the HDTV standards I believe).

As to why the ATI driver would invoke the pan and scan mode for some of the custom resolutions listed above (e.g., 848x480 @ 540p timings windowed in 720x480) I can't say. I'm using the ATI Catalyst 2.5 driver packs.
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post #108 of 1734 Old 01-19-2003, 06:18 AM - Thread Starter
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Mad Cat:
I'm not sure if you saw my earlier post but when I read your comments I adjusted all timings to have a vertical sync width =1. Some sets are more particular than other regarding this value.
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post #109 of 1734 Old 01-19-2003, 08:18 AM
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I was having problems with the horizontal sync pulse width times, not the vertical sync.
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post #110 of 1734 Old 01-19-2003, 08:52 AM - Thread Starter
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Now THAT'S weird! What value did you wind up using? In Powerstrip, the HDTV standard for 1080i has a HSW of 48.
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post #111 of 1734 Old 01-19-2003, 09:36 AM
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Horizonatal sync pulse time = HSW/Pixel Clock Frequency.

For 1920x1080i mode provided by Powerstrip:
Horizontal sync pulse time = 48/(74.184 MHz) = 0.647 uS = 647 nS.

For the 720x480 @ 540p timing that you listed above (HSW = 64),
Horizontal sync pulse time = 64/(31.590 MHz) = 2.025 uS = 2,025 nS.

For a modifed 720x480 @ 540p timing that works on my setup (HSW = 32),
Horizontal sync pulse time = 32/(31.860 MHz) = 1.004 uS = 1,004 nS

The modified PowerStrip timing parameters that works on my system:
720x480=720,59,32,133,480,31,1,51,31860,278

I found this link on the WWW that discuss the horizontal sync pulse times, but I'm having trouble deciding from which two sets of numbers to use in PowerStrip: HDG-2000 HDTV Analog Component Video Calibration Generator FAQ.
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post #112 of 1734 Old 01-19-2003, 01:58 PM
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aj930 thanks for the reply I have tried using the tv as the primary display and unselecting the pc but the lowest resolution I am able to get is 800x600. I dont have an adapter page, I am connecting the component video cable directly to the ati wonder 9700 pro.

I have read turning the virtual desktop off how do you do that on xp.


Jim


xp, ati wonder 9700pro, mitsubishi ws55908
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post #113 of 1734 Old 01-20-2003, 12:47 PM
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Is there a way to disable the virtual desktop??
I'm using the Custom Resolution Karnis posted and when ever I try to use anything other than 848x480p I get the virtual desktop.
I have tried both the Sony monitor driver and the custom driver Karnis posted.
I am using
Power strip
ATI 9500 Pro video card
Mitsubishi WS-65908 TV
And I am connected to the TV with RGBHV cables
I would like to use the 960x540p settings but I get virtual desktop, and I even got virtual desktop with settings at 1920x1080i.

Also I had no virtual desktop problems with a gforce 2 video card at any resolution.
Any suggestions on what may be wrong?

Thanks for playing
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post #114 of 1734 Old 01-20-2003, 01:24 PM - Thread Starter
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Try display properties---advanced---displays, you will see a monitor section, click the large button above the monitor to display the properties, check under the attributes tab and uncheck "DDC"....also check the max resolution, make sure it is set higher than 1920x1080.
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post #115 of 1734 Old 01-20-2003, 04:45 PM
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Carpose,


"I would like to use the 960x540p settings but I get virtual desktop, and I even got virtual desktop with settings at 1920x1080i.
Also I had no virtual desktop problems with a gforce 2 video card at any resolution.
Any suggestions on what may be wrong?"


I know how painful/frustrating it is to keep seeing virtual desktop when using ATI card. I've had lots of problem like that, and still get that on occasion like updating video card driver. I still dont know why it happens, but I now know some actions to take. Here is what I found out that may help you hopefully,

Assuming you are trying to achieve 960x540

1. virtual desktop symptom1. (Video card is sending 960x540)

Your PC monitor is not able to lock to 960x540, and the monitor shows a virtual desktop. However if you carefully look at powerstrip advanced timing parameter, and if the active pixel is still 960 and 540, then you are fine. In this case, your video card is sending 960x540 signals. It is just your monitor that cannot lock the signal, ending up some extended 640x480 with virtual desktop. If you display this to HDTV, you should not see the virtual desktop. (Oversan/Underscan should still be there)

2. virtual destop symptom2. (Video card is sending some extendet 640x480)

Your video card cannot set to 960x540. Your PC monitor would show a virtual desktop of some extended 640x480. Just by looking at the PC monitor, you would not be able to tell the difference between symptom1 and 2. However again if you look at the powerstrip parameter, you would read 640x480 on the active pixel. This is a problem. Because if you display it on your HDTV, it would still show virtual desktop of extended 640x480. You have to fix this. In my case (mitsu46"hdtv, ati8500), this happens when,

1. I set VGA to secondary device, and DVI to primary device. (dont know why).

2. My driver is screwed up for some reason, like tyring video card tweakers. Usually fixable by a fresh driver install.


So the key idea is to look at powerstrip parameter, confirming whether you are actually sending the 960x540 signals or not. If it is, then no problem when you are displaying to TV. If not, try the fresh driver install, and make sure your VGA is the primary device, (maybe disable all other display such as DVI, tv,etc). There maybe something else, but this worked for me. I think these are valid for other resolutions too.

Hope it helps.


Ken
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post #116 of 1734 Old 01-20-2003, 10:13 PM
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From the Display Properties->Settings->Advanced page, there should be an Adapter tab, with a 'List all Modes' button that displays more modes. I'm using the component video cable as well, so this should work.

BTW, can anyone help me get Powerstrip working. I've created custom timings, add them, then choose the restart option. The custom settings appear in the 'user defined' area, but I can't figure out how to use them. I'm sure I'm missing something obvious...



Quote:


Originally posted by djsl
aj930 thanks for the reply I have tried using the tv as the primary display and unselecting the pc but the lowest resolution I am able to get is 800x600. I dont have an adapter page, I am connecting the component video cable directly to the ati wonder 9700 pro.

I have read turning the virtual desktop off how do you do that on xp.


Jim


xp, ati wonder 9700pro, mitsubishi ws55908

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post #117 of 1734 Old 01-21-2003, 07:57 AM
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Someone please enlighten me?

I have sucessfully configured Powerstrip to display HD signals to my HD TV through my transcoder.

What I can't get working is displaying HD (Fullscreen) images to my HD TV from MyHD tuner card. This card bypasses Powerstrip and is supposed to send a 1080i signal. I either get horizontal lines or a blank screen on my HD TV. My computer monitor displays the image correctly. I have tried every resolution output that's listed in the MyHD software for full screen display. No luck.

I have:

Toshiba 57H81 HDTV
MyHD Tuner card
Keydigital Transcoder w/ VGA passthough

What do I need to do to make my MyHD tuner output display on my HDTV?

Any help would be much appreciated.

Allen ...
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post #118 of 1734 Old 01-21-2003, 09:57 AM
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Karnis:

Could you give us ( I see others don't know either) a tutorial or where we could get educated on how to use PowerStrip? I have tried several configurations and all have failed, but I think I'm not using PowerStrip properly. For example how does one input and then select the Custom T&Rs you have posted here. Also, I tired to create a custom T&R but it wanted to overwrite the same name as the one you attached earlier in this thread in the .Zip file? I didn't figure out how to take advantage of that Zip file yet either.

Any suggestions on how to test the T&Rs on a monitor before going to the RGB output? My Dell monitor wants to go out of sync with a 33.75Khz horizontal timing? And if it doesn't work on the Mits WS-65908 then how would I get back to a workable monitor output?

I have picked up bits and pieces from this thread on how to use PowerStrip but not enough yet to get it. I also read other threads here with no real good undersatnding either. I checked the PowerStrip web site out but there isn't any help file or how to's over there.

JerryW
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post #119 of 1734 Old 01-21-2003, 11:31 AM - Thread Starter
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Jerry:
I'll post something soon....maybe not today, but soon.

My POS Daewoo 13" monitor syncs to every custom rez I use on HDTV. 33.75KHz is not a high scan rate. If your monitor syncs to 640x480 or 800x600 at 60Hz it should sync to any of those rez.

Ranger3: Your question is more appropriate for one of the MyHd threads ongoing. Try posting over there for better response.
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post #120 of 1734 Old 01-21-2003, 01:57 PM
RTK
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Quote:


Originally posted by MadCat
The dongle does work. I have success with this adapter for 720x480 @ 540p timings (DVD), 856x480 @ 540p timings (99.9% square pixels), and 1152x648 @ 720p timings (timings provided by ATI). These modes work fine for me without the virtual desktop panning or overscans.

As to why the ATI driver would invoke the pan and scan mode for some of the custom resolutions listed above (e.g., 848x480 @ 540p timings windowed in 720x480) I can't say. I'm using the ATI Catalyst 2.5 driver packs.

There is much confusion over the capabilities of the ATI HD component adapter. It has no magic powers and only serves to mechanically convert VGA -> component and to signal the video card to output in YPrPb mode. The dip switches may also function to notifiy the video card the capabilities of the display. The limitations of its output resolutions relate to the current Catalyst driver support. While a Radeon card with dongle can be forced into different timings which will give it some ability to correct for overscan in your display, it will not allow custom resolutions. None of the resolutions you have listed above are "custom" resolutions.

Via PM, I have recently spoken with someone at ATI to correct this issue however at this time resolutions other than those supported result in a virtual desktop with panning.

Rick
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