For those who would like ATI interlaced overlay to work... - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 62 Old 12-31-2002, 04:17 AM - Thread Starter
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For all of you who, like myself, would love to have working video overlay in interlaced resolutions on ATI Radeons:

Please visit ATI's "Driver Feedback" site (part of their "Catalyst Crew" program) and submit a request. Maybe if we speak loudly enough, this issue will be addressed.

Someday I hope to be able to watch Dscaler in 1080i!
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post #2 of 62 Old 12-31-2002, 06:41 AM
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FYI just sent in request
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post #3 of 62 Old 12-31-2002, 07:03 AM
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I think that the 7093 were the last drivers to allow interlaced resolutions....
See thread...
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...ght=interlaced
At least you can benefit from the 7093 while you wait (it could be a veeery long time...;))
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post #4 of 62 Old 12-31-2002, 08:38 AM
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For what is worth I just submitted to ATI my request.
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post #5 of 62 Old 12-31-2002, 10:49 AM
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Sent my $.02 worth.

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post #6 of 62 Old 12-31-2002, 11:15 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks guys, if I hear anything from ATI I'll let you know. If not, I'll bump this thread next week and try again.
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post #7 of 62 Old 01-02-2003, 12:14 AM
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Sent in my feedback.

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At least you can benefit from the 7093 while you wait (it could be a veeery long time...)
Not in XP :( And it has already been far too long, it's time for ATI to address this issue.
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post #8 of 62 Old 01-02-2003, 01:49 AM
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I also sent a response.
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post #9 of 62 Old 01-02-2003, 03:05 AM
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I put in a word too, even though I don't personally care about interlaced support in the overlay.

I wouldn't hold my breath, though.

--Jerome
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post #10 of 62 Old 01-02-2003, 03:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by jsaliga
I wouldn't hold my breath, though.
And that's the really frustrating part....

ATI has built a strong and growing niche in the digital video world, but they seem to leave loose ends unfixed that work against them in this area.

1) Interlaced overlay problem
2) R8500 Gamma problem (fixed now, but it took way to long)
3) DVI issues with displays that don't support DDC (eg HDTVs), and no way to force a digital output.
4) Lack of Dscaler support in the AIW

Grrr!

Kevin
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post #11 of 62 Old 01-02-2003, 08:30 AM
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Sent mine in as well

Mike
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post #12 of 62 Old 01-09-2003, 07:12 PM
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Bump. We need more to nag at AIT
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post #13 of 62 Old 01-09-2003, 07:48 PM
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You all do realize that VMR9 allows interlaced DVD output, right?

Check some of the other threads on the board.

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post #14 of 62 Old 01-09-2003, 07:53 PM
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What about Dscaler, which is what I use my HTPC for 80 % of the time? Also, I doubt VMR9 will perform very well on my Radeon 7200! VMR9 may be the answer in the long run, but it's not an excuse for faulty overlay support.

Interlaced overlay should have worked when I bought the card, and it should certainly be working today, ATI has had a VERY long time to fix this problem.
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post #15 of 62 Old 01-09-2003, 08:36 PM
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Quote:
You all do realize that VMR9 allows interlaced DVD output, right?
That's the theory but I've not hear of anybody actually accomplishing this. And while I'm glad you're happy with VMR on your system, it's a non-starter for most people right now, the technology just isn't ready for primetime. Maybe once the major filters and DVD players fully support it and they get things like color/brightness/gamma controls working without hacking it through Powerstrip, I might be interested. Until then it's TT using the overlay for me.
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post #16 of 62 Old 01-09-2003, 08:39 PM
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Another request just gone in!!
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post #17 of 62 Old 01-09-2003, 09:13 PM
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Quote:
4) Lack of Dscaler support in the AIW
This isn't ATI's fault. And besides, the DScaler team is working on DSHOW support, which will work with not only the ATI cards but probably quite a few other capture cards. It's not ready for public consumption yet, though.
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post #18 of 62 Old 01-10-2003, 12:44 AM
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1) Interlaced overlay problem"

I don't think they have that much interest it it. They are making tons of money selling cards to gamers that are only interested in computer monitors. Their attitude is - "If you want interlaced then buy the dongle"

2) R8500 Gamma problem (fixed now, but it took way to long)
Again not much interest - Gamers weren't complaining about this.

3) DVI issues with displays that don't support DDC (eg HDTVs), and no way to force a digital output.

4) Lack of Dscaler support in the AIW

Well DScaler is not an ATI product, so how can they be blamed for it. There are other capture cards that are not DScaler supported too.

Basic response to all of your points is, why would they care? Why worry about the 1-2% of your market? If MS had chosen to support ATI for Media Center (lots of crying at ATI and NVidia over this one) things might be different, but until that day comes, don't hold your breath.

Failure is not an option. It comes bundled with every Microsoft product
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post #19 of 62 Old 01-10-2003, 01:03 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
"If you want interlaced then buy the dongle"
That would be fine except for two points:

1) I'm not interested in the dongle because I use a RGBHV connection, component video does me no good.
2) I refuse to hand another $80 or whatever the dongle costs now (actually, more than that because the dongle isn't available for the 7200 so I'd have to buy another card, too) to a company that has proven they don't care about me. It really rubs me the wrong way when they can make interlaced overlay work in conjunction with the add-on dongle but refuse to fix the functionality of the product I already bought.

Quote:
Basic response to all of your points is, why would they care? Why worry about the 1-2% of your market?
Because the type of customers in that 1-2% often make recomendations to a lot of folks that buy PC hardware like video cards and are very vocal about companies such as ATI that don't bother fixing outstanding issues. I used to recomend ATI almost exclusively because I thought they were a good value, but I don't any longer because of ATI's track record of poor drivers and unresponsive support.
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post #20 of 62 Old 01-10-2003, 06:03 AM
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jkaiser,

Maybe if you voiced your opinion of how important interlaced resolutions are to serious Home Theater users you could bump up that theoretical 1-2% figure to 3%?

By "not holding your breath" you are basicaly letting ATI think only gamers buy their cards.
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post #21 of 62 Old 01-10-2003, 06:08 AM
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Hi all,
Quote:
3) DVI issues with displays that don't support DDC (eg HDTVs), and no way to force a digital output.
Could someone please elaborate on this or point to a thread that discusses it. Friend just bought a DVI-capable HDTV (Hitachi) and now I'm not sure what to advise regarding video card/connection.

Thanks

Bob
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post #22 of 62 Old 01-10-2003, 12:01 PM
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Shawn, as far as I know, ATI does not have any idea who is buying their cards. Their only source of information is their supply chains and orders. Now if some one like AVS or DigitalConnection orders were in "significant" numbers, perhaps they would be listening. But significant would be a quantity larger then the BBs and CorruptUSAs, not very likely. Other sources of information would be Dongle purchases (but then that is supposed to make the Home Theater users happy, so no need to keep track of that) or Product Reviews. I have never seen a review (except for AIW's but usually at low resolutions) on an ATI video card where they covered High End - Non-Gaming usage, like viewing DVDs. They are always hailing the 43 Gazillion FPS, etc. Now if you can get a reputable review (leave out TechTV, please!) to do a solid review for our usage and have them complain about the non-interlaced issue, you might have something.

Am I trying to let ATI off the hook, no. Between the lack of interlaced Computer Monitors and the CSS/Macrovision/MPPA issues with interlaced, it is my oppinion that they just don't want to go there. And as long as sales are strong for the gamers, I doubt very much they ever will.

I have not seen a post by Mr. Orr (the ATI regular) for probably 6 months if not more. At the time, he made it known that although he did have a computer at home, he had zero interest in Home Theater usage.

Failure is not an option. It comes bundled with every Microsoft product
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post #23 of 62 Old 01-10-2003, 12:15 PM
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Quote:
3) DVI issues with displays that don't support DDC (eg HDTVs), and no way to force a digital output.
Yea, this really is a bugger! I've had to dead bug hack a DDC prom onto several displays to work around this. Or, temporarily, you can hook it up to a display that has a DDC prom then hot plug it on to the display that doesn't. Until you re-boot. It seems that they are only using the DDC prom to detect the presence of DVI connected display and not to enforce any timings / resolutions. If they keep doing this, and more DVI equipped displays don’t include DDC, I think perhaps I’ll design a dongle to address this issue and sell it to you guys. I hate the idea of designing HW that can be made obsolete with one line of SW however.

Dave
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post #24 of 62 Old 01-10-2003, 02:04 PM
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Sent them my feedback.

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post #25 of 62 Old 01-10-2003, 03:43 PM
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VMR has been working for me testing 1440x960i and I have tested it at 1920x1080i.

All though it is on a radeon 7500 they are working with cat 2.5 and the beta 3.0 drivers. Picture rivals overlay but since my vid card cannot keep up with the motion of the pans it does have some heavy stutters and Triangles will flash on the top corners. I cannot wait to get a 9700 so I can finally watch movies in higher resolutions than 480p or 540p.

It is fully working with Zoom player and sonic 1.5 video and audio filters.
FFDSHOW unsharpen filter
P4 1.8ghz

I have seen it with Vern's Home theater and picture and motion was flawless and as smooth as overlay. There might be some hope out their for us rear projector users that can only do Progressive 480 and 540p resolutions.

I will post some screenshots that I have taken at 1440x960i when I get back home later this evening.
Matt

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post #26 of 62 Old 01-10-2003, 04:52 PM
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Here are the screenshots I have taken from my testing.

I had the ffdshow unsharpen filter up a little high on some but you can at least see how the VMR 9 did with the image.
Warning 100k JPEGs below.

pic1 pic2
pic3
pic4

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post #27 of 62 Old 01-10-2003, 05:33 PM
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Matt,

Does VMR with interlaced desktop have the problems that the old 7093 drivers had with interlacing? Specifically

1) Having to "refresh" the custom timing after certain events

2) The "overlay cursor" in DVD menues being messed up (double height/size and in the wrong place)
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post #28 of 62 Old 01-10-2003, 06:21 PM
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No resets of the timings.

But a couple of the menus I accessed on DVD's were messed up when in Zoom mode. But I was able to fix them by going to full screen mode. 98% of the menu's work as if it was running progressive and through the Overlay Mixer). This may have just be a problem with my original test setup, since I created newer zoom modes I cannot reproduce the menu problems.

Not being one who ran interlaced rez's with 98 and 7093 I am having a very similar experience as if it was a using the overlay in progressive resolutions. Of course besides the Panning problems I mentioned. (I am pretty sure this is because of the Video Card since I see the same problem while running 480p and 540p).

It was definitly fun (and worth it) to take the plunge and try it out.

Matt

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post #29 of 62 Old 01-10-2003, 11:09 PM
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Matt - I Cannot get my RAdeon 7500 to accept a 1080i interlaced resolution. When I try to switch to it in Powerstrip, it says the video card accepted the new resolution and do I want to switch to it, but if I say "yes" it just beeps and does nothing. I'm told this indicates an error but no error anywhere recorded that I can find.

If I look in the adapter settings ands select "list all modes" then 1080i at 33.75 herz is not shown, which I believe is the 1080i timing for an HDTV.

WHat are you doing to get 1080i to work with your 7500 on a standard 540p/1080i HDTV? Do you have custom timings for Powerstrip? Can you send them to me or post them? Did you select something in the adapter modes?

Thanks,

Bob Thompson
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post #30 of 62 Old 01-11-2003, 03:57 AM - Thread Starter
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We can also send feedback to Microsoft's WHQL labs encouraging them to test interlaced overlay support as part of their WHQL certification. Not likely to happen, I know... But what the heck they may not have any idea it's even a problem.

Send an email to WHQL display test support.
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