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post #271 of 4374 Old 09-21-2003, 02:12 AM
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Some people commented that the Dec 02 build was the fastest. I'm currently using it and its at least as fast as the 0523 build.

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post #272 of 4374 Old 09-21-2003, 02:25 AM
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IXUS,
In theory the order of resize quality should be Sinc, Spline, Lanczos.
Sinc is unusably slow.
Spline seems just a little better then Lanczos but the extra CPU it requires is not worth the very small improvement IMHO.
I would rather use the spare CPU to run Descaler sharpen before resize, Gradual denoise after resize etc.
Even on my P4 3.3Gig 942FSB duel channel DDR system I cannot use Spline smoothly without compromising on other ffdshow settings. I'll have to wait for the next generation of CPU.
If you can run Spline smoothly, without compromising on other filters or settings then by all means go for it.

P.S. I use the 0523 build.

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post #273 of 4374 Old 09-21-2003, 04:09 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by Owen
IXUS,
In theory the order of resize quality should be Sinc, Spline, Lanczos.
Sinc is unusably slow.
Spline seems just a little better then Lanczos but the extra CPU it requires is not worth the very small improvement IMHO.
I would rather use the spare CPU to run Descaler sharpen before resize, Gradual denoise after resize etc.
Even on my P4 3.3Gig 942FSB duel channel DDR system I cannot use Spline smoothly without compromising on other ffdshow settings. I'll have to wait for the next generation of CPU.
If you can run Spline smoothly, without compromising on other filters or settings then by all means go for it.

P.S. I use the 0523 build.

Regards,

Owen
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Owen,

I'm using ffdshow with unsharpmask at 23 after resizing at 1152x864@50hz with chroma and luma sharpness at 1.23
No other filter used on a Athlon XP Barton 2500+ nforce2 dual channel 512mb corsair CL2.
At present CPU consumption it's around 65%, do you think i can move to spline or better to sinc?

Can you also tell what difference can you find (both experimental and theoretical) between lancsoz, spline and sinc?

Thanks!

Bye
Michele
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post #274 of 4374 Old 09-21-2003, 06:11 AM
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I tried both Spline and Sinc on my system: they stutter like every second, not usable at all.
The strange thing is cpu load decrease in respect to Lancsoz

Bye
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post #275 of 4374 Old 09-21-2003, 06:29 AM
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How are you viewing your CPU load? Task Manager isn't accurate enough since the time resolution isn't high enough. Use the ffdshow OSD to view your actual CPU utilization. When I get too ambitious and apply too many filters, it gets pegged at 100%, resulting in either massive stutters, or a slow motion video and regular speed audio(i.e. not synched at all).

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post #276 of 4374 Old 09-21-2003, 06:44 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by Goi
How are you viewing your CPU load? Task Manager isn't accurate enough since the time resolution isn't high enough. Use the ffdshow OSD to view your actual CPU utilization. When I get too ambitious and apply too many filters, it gets pegged at 100%, resulting in either massive stutters, or a slow motion video and regular speed audio(i.e. not synched at all).

Goi, thanks for your help! In fact i was using taskmanager, i'll comeback and try again with ffdshow osd.

Bye
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post #277 of 4374 Old 09-22-2003, 02:40 AM
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Michele Spinolo,

Quote:

Can you also tell what difference can you find (both experimental and theoretical) between lancsoz, spline and sinc?

Come on man, I have better things to do then spend my time answering your question when you could answer it yourself just by USING the different algorithms yourself.
I have already expressed my opinion on these resize options.

Quote:

Sinc is unusably slow.
Spline seems just a little better then Lanczos but the extra CPU it requires is not worth the very small improvement IMHO.

Personally I don't care what the CPU usage is as long as I don't get any stutters.

Regards,

Owen
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post #278 of 4374 Old 09-22-2003, 06:25 AM
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Owen,

What ffdshow version should we use?
Is there PQ difference between ver.0523 and the ver.0103?

Thanks for your resize-sharpen method, I use that method right now with TT and the resulting picture is stunning.
Before that I don't like to use ffdshow (maybe because I use unsharp mask).
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post #279 of 4374 Old 09-22-2003, 09:03 AM
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Maybe I missed this in the thread...but do you have to have Dscaler installed in order to have the Dscaler NR filter in ffdshow? Because I can't seem to find it anywere in ffdshow....

Thanks!

-Ryan
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post #280 of 4374 Old 09-22-2003, 09:18 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by RyanDinan
Maybe I missed this in the thread...but do you have to have Dscaler installed in order to have the Dscaler NR filter in ffdshow? Because I can't seem to find it anywere in ffdshow....

Thanks!

-Ryan

You can install the whole Dscaler program or just the Dscaler filter.
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post #281 of 4374 Old 09-22-2003, 06:55 PM
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Ok. I've read and read and read and I think I'm starting to go crosseyed..

Unfortunately I still don't think I'm grasping everything and if I cold get a succint, or close , answer then that would be great.

Here is what I have

P4-2.53
P4C800 Deluxe
1GB PC3200 Ram
Radeon 9800 Pro
Toshiba TW65H80 RPTV at 1920x540p for DVD Playback (1920x1080 just doesn't look good IMO)

I'm really very confused as to what to set the resize resolution to be.

From reading this massive thread here is what I currently have (in this order)

Unsharp Mask - 18
Resize - 1280x720
Luma - 1.3
Chroma - 1.3
Gradual Denoise - 18

The system tends to be a little jumpy and the OSD on FFDShow is pegged at 100%.

Any help?

Thanks

Josh
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post #282 of 4374 Old 09-22-2003, 08:18 PM
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JoshFink,
For starters, see if you can overclock the P4 to 3Gig plus. You will need as much power as possible.

Then in this order:

Deinterlace (If Required. It is normally not. 5 Tap low pass recommended)

Picture Properties (If required)

Levels (if required)

Descaler Filter, Sharpen. (Start at default setting of 127 and adjust as required. You will need to download Descaler to get the filter)

Resize (Try both 1440x960 for NTSC AND you DESKTOP resolution to see which works best.)

Resize sharpen (Lanczos, Luma 1.5-2.0 Croma 1.5-2.0)

Gradual denoise (30-50)


I do not recommend any of the filters under the Sharpen tab in ffdshow.
Descaler sharpen is much better a bringing out REAL detail not just high lights.

The settings mentioned here are a guide ONLY.
They are suited to CRT displays. For digital displays go easy on the sharpening. Especially Descaler sharpen.


Good luck and have fun.

Regards,

Owen
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post #283 of 4374 Old 09-22-2003, 08:28 PM
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Anyone else use the swscaler option to sharpen?

Its basically the same as resize sharpen except you can go up to 4.

I have to say its quite amazing.
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post #284 of 4374 Old 09-23-2003, 01:01 AM
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Owen, have you ever thought about writing a sticky FAQ in the forum (maybe that's rather difficult to get permission for?) or a FAQ on a website, so you won't have to answer the same questions again and again? If you want to, I can probably host it (as long as it's HTML format) on my website.

i7@ 3.6 - ATI 3870HD - Windows 7 64 bit - FFDShow with dScaler sharpen, AVISynth and Lancoz resize to BG808 with HD-144 lenses
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post #285 of 4374 Old 09-23-2003, 07:25 AM
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Eeeesh...

I just went back to ffdshow version 20030103, as it was faster than 20030523 (the only two I know of that work with TheaterTek).

Anyawy - I only turned on resize (to 1920x1080) via fast bilinear mide and adjusted the luma/chroma sharpen to 1.2 and 1.5 respectively.

With only this, my P4 1.8GHz (the older Willy core - not very overclockable) and Asus P4S533, Radeon 9000np is barely able to achieve smooth playback. I get a few hiccups - normally on scene changes - but for the most part, it's smooth. With the newer version of ffdshow, I couldn't even get this combo to work...

I would have thought that I'd at least be able to run bicubic or lanzcos mode, with the gradual denoise filter first. Is this typical performance with my setup?

Anyway - I'm not seeing any difference in the luma/chroma sharpening. I can go and move the sliders all the way up and down while the movie is playing, hit apply on both the ffdshow and TT windows, and I see no change. Should there be an obnoxious setting that would show me if the filter is really doing anything?
Also - can you use the luma/chroma sharpen even if you don't resize via ffdshow? Or do you have to have that resize box checked?

Thanks!

-Ryan Dinan
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post #286 of 4374 Old 09-23-2003, 08:35 AM
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I think you're resizing too much Ryan...with an Athlon Thunderbird 1.4GHz I'm able to resize to 1024x768 EXP with sharpness or denoise, or Lanczos only. Anything beyond that is unusable. I would expect a P4 1.8GHz to be about as fast.

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post #287 of 4374 Old 09-23-2003, 09:09 AM
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Owen does it matter which dscaler version i use for sharpening? You say to start at 127, what setting do you use at the moment? I`m also wondering what kind of display you use with your htpc?
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post #288 of 4374 Old 09-23-2003, 10:46 AM
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Mastiff,
The sticky FAQ sounds like a good idea. It would help the new people quickly find what they are looking for. And save me some time.
I have no idea how I would get this happening.

Regards,

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post #289 of 4374 Old 09-23-2003, 11:35 AM
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IXUS,

Quote:


Owen does it matter which dscaler version i use for sharpening?

No

Quote:


You say to start at 127, what setting do you use at the moment?

You should know better then to ask that question. But I will grant your request, 135.
Don't you dare use that setting. I have a patent pending.

Quote:


I`m also wondering what kind of display you use with your htpc?

CRT rear projector

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post #290 of 4374 Old 09-23-2003, 12:12 PM
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I would like a Dscaler/ffdshow FAQ because I've been searching 2 forums for information on how to have ffdshow recognize Dscaler. I've got both loaded onto my computer but if I go into ffdshow there are no adjustments under the Dscaler filter. Although I've gotten ffdshow and TT to work together well, Dscaler and ffdshow is new to me. I use the 5/23 version of ffdshow and I downloaded the 401 alpha version of Dscaler. Any help would be appreciated, and I'll continue to search.
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post #291 of 4374 Old 09-23-2003, 12:13 PM
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Ryan,
You are being way to ambitious with your resize settings.
The old 1.8 is not up to the task. If it is using SDRAM you will have no chance. A P4 will SDRAM is SLOOOOW.
Try much more conservative resize settings or do not use resize at all.
If you just want to sharpen, then try Descaler Sharpen.


Regards,

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post #292 of 4374 Old 09-23-2003, 12:24 PM
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Glimmer Man,
It is really very easy.
Just open ffdshow and go down to the DScaler filter tab.
Open it and click the button to the right of the Filter box and browse to where you installed Dscaler and select the filter .dll of choice.
Check the DScaler filter box and you are done.
Happy Dscaleing.

Regards,

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post #293 of 4374 Old 09-23-2003, 12:55 PM
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Thanks Owen, I'm on it!
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post #294 of 4374 Old 09-23-2003, 01:09 PM
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Owen, It worked lika charm! are each one of those filters usable for DVD sharpening?, It looks like tweaker nirvana. Thanks!
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post #295 of 4374 Old 09-23-2003, 02:15 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by Owen
Ryan,
You are being way to ambitious with your resize settings.
The old 1.8 is not up to the task. If it is using SDRAM you will have no chance. A P4 will SDRAM is SLOOOOW.
Try much more conservative resize settings or do not use resize at all.
If you just want to sharpen, then try Descaler Sharpen.


Regards,

Owen
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Well, Im using DDR SDRAM if that makes any difference .
I can do 1920x1080i with fast bilinear fairly well - In fact I watched a whole movie last night without noticing any skips/pauses.
However, I'd still like to know if I can use the luma/chroma sharpening even if I don't resize....Is that possible? Because I honestly don't even see a difference with Spline selected (except that it's choppy as hell). I see no added detail....
Right now while resizing and using luma/chroma sharpening (1.0 and 1.5 respectively) I cannot notice any difference in sharpness either....

I tried the Dscaler filters - which by the way, if you go to the directory where you installed Dscaler and pick a filter, they ALL show up in the drop down menu afterwards. In fact, I'm not sure how to make sure only the ones I want are really running...?

Thanks!

-Ryan
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post #296 of 4374 Old 09-23-2003, 03:41 PM
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Resize takes a while to notice. At first I didn't see what the big deal was too, after a while of getting used to it, with the luma/chroma sharpening and dscaler sharpness filter, and then going back to nothing at all, I could see a clear difference.

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post #297 of 4374 Old 09-24-2003, 01:16 AM
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OOPS! Sorry Owen, I was in the wrong spot, but I'm ok now... Thanks again.
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post #298 of 4374 Old 09-24-2003, 04:56 AM
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RyanDinan,

DDR SDRAM is fine.
Forget about using 1920x1080 on that machine. Unless you have your desktop at 1920x1080 it would be a waste of time anyway.
You could try 1440x960 but I thing that will still be to much for your CPU.
1152x960 could be a good option and let the video card resize to your desktop res. This may sound strange but trust me it can work. Vertical resize is more important then horizontal. 1152x960 is a 1.6 horizontal and 2.0 vertical resize and is a good compromise.
Spline is a waste of time and definitely not an option for you. Stick with Lanczos if you can.
Don't be afraid to use Luma 2.0 and Croma 2.0. Resize sharpen is VERY subtle so 1.0 will be difficult to notice for many people.

DScaler Sharpen filter is the only one worth using. It should be the one shown when you open the DScaler Filter section of ffdshow.
If you cant run Resize sharpen and Dscaler sharpen together due to CPU constraints, try using DS sharpen on its own.

Gradual denoise is useful if the CPU is up to it. Not likely for you.

I consider a 2.5Gig machine a minimum for effective ffdshow use.
For ffdshow use at HD TV resolution (1920x1080) a 3Gig + P4 with fast RAM is only just adequate.


Regards,

Owen
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post #299 of 4374 Old 09-24-2003, 05:00 AM
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Glimmer Man,

You had me worried for a minute there.

Regards,

Owen
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post #300 of 4374 Old 09-24-2003, 07:37 AM
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Hey Guys,
Quick question probably already answered in the thread, but can't seem to locate the answer. I am trying to use ffdshow with Zoomplayer pro and the windvd filters and getting the video freezup. I read that the Abstract DMO filters need to be set to zero to fix this issue. Is this in ffdshow or ZP and how do I do this?

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