Ffdshow FAQ - Page 22 - AVS Forum
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post #631 of 4374 Old 12-24-2003, 02:16 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by Owen
[b]Dering just does not work very well. So dont bother with it.
Use Denoise3d in stead, before resize.

Thanks,

For the moment i use only Gradual Denoise because I think Denoise3D is not so easy to calibrate : I don't want to lose a natural image.

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post #632 of 4374 Old 12-25-2003, 12:44 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by Owen
09.27.2003 is the latest good build.


Owen
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Where did you get it? I can't see it on sourceforge
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post #633 of 4374 Old 12-25-2003, 02:38 AM
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You can download it here : http://divxstation.com/softwareId.asp?sId=123

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post #634 of 4374 Old 12-25-2003, 04:14 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by DTSman-fr
Thanks,

For the moment i use only Gradual Denoise because I think Denoise3D is not so easy to calibrate : I don't want to lose a natural image.

Denoise3D is currently the best post processor for Divx or Xvid video that I have used.
Just keep the time set to 4.0 or less and adjust the other settings as required.
It cleans up poorly compressed video very well.
That is not to suggest that Divx or Xvid are poor compression systems. Far from it.
But a lot of it is over compressed.

Regards,

Owen
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post #635 of 4374 Old 12-25-2003, 06:48 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by DTSman-fr
You can download it here : http://divxstation.com/softwareId.asp?sId=123

Isn't this strange that official site was updated last time more than a year ago and downloads have to be made from some place, which does not have any apparent links to the original site. Somebody please enlighten me...
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post #636 of 4374 Old 12-25-2003, 07:22 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by Owen
Denoise3D is currently the best post processor for Divx or Xvid video that I have used.
Just keep the time set to 4.0 or less and adjust the other settings as required.
It cleans up poorly compressed video very well.
That is not to suggest that Divx or Xvid are poor compression systems. Far from it.
But a lot of it is over compressed.

I agree with you. Denoise3D is very good for Divx, Xvid.

I have not enough supply to use Denoise 3D with my AMD Thunderbird 1.33Ghz. But I will try with my AMD XP2600 as soon as possible... Thanks

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post #637 of 4374 Old 12-25-2003, 05:48 PM
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Dream on, at least if you're resizing as well... I can't use any of the denoise filters without turning the movie into a slideshow, and I use a 2600. But I do resize to XGA and use dScaler sharpen, so if you're only denoising, it would probably work. I believe this is the one place where I would have to admit that Pentiums are better because of the hyperthreading...

i7@ 3.6 - ATI 3870HD - Windows 7 64 bit - FFDShow with dScaler sharpen, AVISynth and Lancoz resize to BG808 with HD-144 lenses
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post #638 of 4374 Old 12-25-2003, 07:18 PM
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Without resize, an Athlon 2600XP should handle Denoise 3d ok. My 2800XP system can do it without problems, but not with large resize as well.

Denoise3d should be used before resize for best results. CPU load is too high to use after resize anyway.

I agree that P4 hyperthreading is worthwhile, as is Dual channel RAM on P4 systems.

My overclocked Dual Channel P4 (3.5Gig) can handle Denoise3d, Descaler sharpen, Resize and sharpen (1440x1152 Lanczos) and VMR9 output without any problems. I even have enough CPU to run other filters (Deinterlace, Levels, Picture Properties, and Audio Equalization) if required.

Anyone seriously into ffdshow should think about upgrading to a highly clocked (3.2+) dual channel P4 system. There is no substitute. Near enough is just not good enough.
You either have enough power to run all the filters you want smoothly, or you do not.

For ffdshow use, a good P4 system with a Radeon 9600 Pro will outperform ANY Athlon system with an expensive Radeon 9800, and will probably cost less money.

Anyway, a P4 upgrade is very, very cheap compared to a good display.

Regards,

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post #639 of 4374 Old 12-26-2003, 05:30 AM
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Anybody tried the new Athlon 64 for this use yet?

i7@ 3.6 - ATI 3870HD - Windows 7 64 bit - FFDShow with dScaler sharpen, AVISynth and Lancoz resize to BG808 with HD-144 lenses
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post #640 of 4374 Old 12-29-2003, 01:47 AM
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Well, I finally reached video nirvana after 3 days of neverending tweaking and testing. It came down to basically "less is more." I don't have the slightest clue how some of you can tolerate the resize sharpness settings above 1.0 (or above 0.75 for that matter). It makes the image look artificial to me...loses the film-like quality that my set top player had.

These are my final settings, and it runs flawless on my Athlon 2400+, 1.25GB RAM, ATI AIW 9800 Pro using component out cable, SB Audigy SPDIF out using Zoom Player with Cinemaster video decoder and Reclock.

In this order:
Resize to 960x540, Lanczsos, 0.4 Luma Sharpen, 0.15 Chroma Sharpen
DScaler Sharpen @ 40
Gradual Denoise @ 35

I'm outputting to my Toshiba 50h82 at 1776x1000 (1080i).

I tried turning off filters and doing a straight bicubic resize to 1776x1000, and COUNTLESS other combos but the one above proved most pleasing. No extra ringing is introduced, compression artifacts aren't overemphasized, and the picture still carries the same soft film-like look that my set top player gave me, but the picture DETAIL (not "sharpness") is greatly enhanced.

Very happy with this setup
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post #641 of 4374 Old 12-29-2003, 07:50 AM
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Kami,

I agree - less is definitely more. I use the offset filter to correct a slight Y/C delay, Dscaler sharpen at 80, and gradual denoise at 20. This gives a very nice "film-like" image on my Sony KP53HS10. I honestly did not see much improvement using Spline or Sinc resize - besides, I didn't have the horsepower to do it all the way up to 1920x1080i. If I cant do that, I don't think it's very benificial to resize partly with ffdshow, and then scale up the rest of the way with the video hardware....It just seems like more steps in the chain.

-Ryan
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post #642 of 4374 Old 12-29-2003, 09:40 AM
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What's a Y/C Delay and what are the symptoms?

The only reason I upscale partly with ffdshow is because I like the effects of dscaler and denoise better on an image that is slightly upscaled, but that's just me. I think I tried every possible combo....and I'll probably try a hundred more.
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post #643 of 4374 Old 01-04-2004, 05:16 AM
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Can anyone tell why my overlay color settings are jumping to brightness-->98% and contrast -->134% every time that I go in to ffdshow settings when DVD/video is running. This happens without any ffdshow filters selected, but I can avoid this by selecting "overlay control" in ffdshow.

Another problem is that when I use VMR9, my black level is way too bright and I cant figure out why.

I have Radeon 9000 Pro, newest ffdshow and ATI drivers.

Regards,

Esa
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post #644 of 4374 Old 01-05-2004, 10:54 AM
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I hate to say this but I tried FFDshow for a few weeks and just uninstalled it last night. What a dfferance. Playing back movies without FDDshow is much better! Suddenly the hazy glazed screen window was lifted and now I have a clear picture once again. Looks like FFDshow is not for me.
I used the recommended settings of Unsharpen and Denoise of 18. I even tried up to 40 but it just looked worse. I remember when I first installed this program and used it with Theater Tek I saw immediatately a screen door of filth over my nice clean picture. Adjusting the two settings smoothed it up some or made it more noisy. But didn't let the picture come thru clearly. Soon as I uninstalled FFDshow it was like waching a window away of a thick layer of filth on it.

AMD1000, 256megs RAM, Radeon 9200se, WinXP Pro, Theater Tek, Catalyst 3.9, Barco 800 BD crt projector on a 7' wide screen of Gatorboard.

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post #645 of 4374 Old 01-05-2004, 11:13 AM
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stylinlp -

Sorry to hear about this...But I think your disappointment with ffdshow is directly related to the filters you were using.
Unsharpen mask is not the filter you want to be using....

Have you tried using the Resize filter? If your computer has enough horsepower, try scaling up to the resolution of your display (or at least the vertical resolution), and add a bit of luma and chroma sharpening (I use 1.30 for each). I use the sinc resize algorithm to scale to 720x1080, then let my video card scale the horizontal to 1920 (1920x1080i). The difference is fairly noticeable.

If you cant use resize due to cpu restrictions, try using Dscaler sharpen instead of unsharpen mask. It has a much better effect on the image.

-Ryan
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post #646 of 4374 Old 01-05-2004, 11:35 AM
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select the Blur & NR option set to 18 (I tried 40 too)
unsharp mask set to 18 (I tried up to 40 too)
I did all this per the FFDshow FAQ at the beginning of this thread.

I have a AMD 1.0 so resizing is not an option so I didn't even try.
I guess I could try Descaler Sharpen instead of Unsharpen mask...

*Analog fans may be blind but Digital fans are deaf*
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post #647 of 4374 Old 01-05-2004, 01:25 PM
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stylinlp-> If you copy the dvd files to your HD (dvddecrypter), it will free som resources to use the resizing feature. I have a slow setup too with AMD 1.4 and GF4mx440 and I can do lanczos resize at 960x540 smooth.
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post #648 of 4374 Old 01-05-2004, 07:57 PM
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Why wouldn't one want to use unsharp mask? Not that I disagree but I'm currently using it as it is supposed to improve contrast. I still do a regular sharpen after resize and denoise. I'm pleased with my results but was just curious if anyone else is using unsharp mask and why I wouldn't want to use it?
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post #649 of 4374 Old 01-05-2004, 08:16 PM
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stylinp - I'm not sure why you were getting a "hazy, glazed screen window" effect with the settings you listed. I tried those settings on my system, and got a slightly smoothed, somewhat sharpened (albeit jaggy) picture. Definitely neither hazy nor glazed. I'm wondering if perhaps something else was at work.

I'm trying to remember - is the Barco 800 svid or composite-in only? I am wondering if there is maybe a problem with trying to send the sharpened image out over svid or composite? Or maybe some of these optimizations don't take kindly to going 480i to CRT projos? Just pure speculation...

Like many, I use a Lanczos resize (with very light sharpen settings) and a touch of gradual denoise, and notice a dramatic improvement with ffdshow versus without (DVI-out to DLP projo, 120" screen).
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post #650 of 4374 Old 01-05-2004, 08:18 PM
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pcaulfie - Speaking only for myself, I do all of my sharpening during the resize. I find those sharpen filters to be much better (less detrimental) than the standard unsharp filter.

You may find better results turning off unsharp and maybe playing a bit with the resize sharpen filters.

What method of resize are you using?
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post #651 of 4374 Old 01-05-2004, 08:31 PM
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Im feeding my Barco 800 with 5 BNC breakout cable from RGB output of my Radeon 9200se. Im sure that resizing the image with Resize in FFDshow would look much better. But unfortunately I only have a AMD 1000. My motherboard can support up to AMD1.4 maybe I should upgrade it. But whats funny. AMD 1.4 cost the same as Fry's AMD Duron 1.6 ESC motheroard combo deal.

Did I hear that right? we can use Sharpen filters without using Resizing?

I will be using PowerStrip to run a res of 1440x960@72hz when I replace this Barco 800 with my new Ehome 8500 in a few weeks.

*Analog fans may be blind but Digital fans are deaf*
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post #652 of 4374 Old 01-06-2004, 10:33 AM
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Happy new year to y'all.

After reading this entire FAQ during the holidays, taking notes and trying various settings, I have some observations/questions regarding "average frame rate achieved"

My preferred settings are now Resize to 1408 x 1056. My ATI 9800 pro then needs to downscale slightly to 1400 x 1050, which is the native max of my JVC SX21 with 1:1 pixel mapping.

VMR9 looks better than overlay, and I tend to use moderate amounts of denoise3D and gradual denoise depending on the DVD. I use lanczos resize with sharpen between 1.5 and 2.0 for Luma and Chroma, again depending on the DVD.

When I look at the Player Information dialog under ZP and compare the listed frame rate with the average frame rate achieved, I find the average frame rate achieved is dropping below the listed frame rate.

For example for PAL the listed rate is,of course, 25 fps and the highest average I'm getting is 24.970. This is using overlay. If I use VMR9 the average drops further to 23 point something. Dropped frames remain at zero in all cases.

The only way I can get the average frame rate to hover at 25.00 and above is to limit my resize to 1280 by 1024 and set my desktop/projector res to the same.

Subjectively DVD playback seems reasonably smooth; but surely It can't be as smooth as it should be as long as the average is below the listed frame rate? And I don't understand why the dialog is not showing any dropped frames under these conditions.

In this thread most people speak about how high their CPU usage gets through using various filters.

I'd be very interested in what average frame rates anyone else is achieving with various ffdshow options enabled, and learning more about the significance of these figures.

I'm beginning to wonder if I've just been kidding myself that I can get away with the options I've been applying.

Perhaps I need to tweak XP until the Average frame rate jumps to 25 (30 for NTSC) with the options I've chosen and /or rip each DVD for Hard drive playback?

I don't want to have to use 1280x1024, since I can't fill my screen at that res.

For the record it's a P4 3.06 gig, hyperthreading on + 1 gig memory and an ATI 9800 Pro.

Any thoughts?

geoff
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post #653 of 4374 Old 01-06-2004, 03:12 PM
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geofstro,

You are asking to much of your hardware.
When useing the settings you mentioned, a 1280x1024 resize is all you could expect with a 3.06 P4.
I was using a 3.06 running at 3.3 and still could not get all the filters I wanted to use running smoothly with VMR9. (overlay is less strain on the system)

I have know moved to a P4 running 3.5Gig on a 1Gig front side bus with dual channel PC4000 DDR and can run Denoise3d, Descaler sharpen, Lanczos resize 1440x1152 and VMR9 perfectlly with CPU to spare.

I have said this before, but there is no substitute for a high clocked dual channel P4 system for ffdshow use.



stylinlp,

Your 1G Athlon is just not powerfull enough for effective ffdshow use.
Even my Athlon XP 2800+ is to slow to get the best out of ffdshow.
If you read further into the thread you will understand why Unsharpen and Gradual Denoise without resize is less then best.
This thread was started a long time ago and there have been many developments and much experiance gained, so the earlly posts are outdated.


Regards,

Owen
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post #654 of 4374 Old 01-06-2004, 03:12 PM
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geofstro,

You are asking to much of your hardware.
When useing the settings you mentioned, a 1280x1024 resize is all you could expect with a 3.06 P4.
I was using a 3.06 running at 3.3 and still could not get all the filters I wanted to use running smoothly with VMR9. (overlay is less strain on the system)

I have know moved to a P4 running 3.5Gig on a 1Gig front side bus with dual channel PC4000 DDR and can run Denoise3d, Descaler sharpen, Lanczos resize 1440x1152 and VMR9 perfectlly with CPU to spare.

I have said this before, but there is no substitute for a high clocked dual channel P4 system for ffdshow use.



stylinlp,

Your 1G Athlon is just not powerfull enough for effective ffdshow use.
Even my Athlon XP 2800+ is to slow to get the best out of ffdshow.
If you read further into the thread you will understand why Unsharpen and Gradual Denoise without resize is less then best.
This thread was started a long time ago and there have been many developments and much experiance gained, so the earlly posts are outdated.


Regards,

Owen
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post #655 of 4374 Old 01-06-2004, 03:18 PM
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Owen -

I have a quick question for you....

I use TheaterTek 1.5.56 with the 20031128 version of ffdshow.
I was wondering how you select between using the VMR9 and the overlay with ffdshow...
Is it accomplished by unchecking the "Use Overlay" box in ffdshow?
For some reason, I thought TT could not use the VRM9 - so even with the 'use overlay' box unchecked, am I still using the overlay? Or am I actually using VRM9? How can I be sure?

Thanks for clearing this up for me!

-Ryan Dinan
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post #656 of 4374 Old 01-06-2004, 04:31 PM
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TheaterTek does not support VMR7 or VMR9 period. Yet...
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post #657 of 4374 Old 01-06-2004, 05:23 PM
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Thanks for the info!
One more quick question....

I was messing with the "Use overlay" box under the Codec section in ffdshow, and I noticed that there were 3 states for that box... Unchecked, "X'ed", and "squared" (filled with a green square instead of a X).
If the box was X'ed, I would get no picture when playing TT. If the box was unchecked, I'd get a very nice picture, with cpu useage at 60% or so (P4 willy at 1.8GHz). If the box was 'squared', I'd still get a picture, but my cpu useage went up to around 75-80%. The quality may have been better - it was hard to tell. But obvoulsly something was different....
Can anyone explain to me what these different options are?

Thanks!

-Ryan
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post #658 of 4374 Old 01-07-2004, 02:30 AM
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Owen,

Thanks. I'm using two 512 Meg PC-3200 400 Mhz DDR memory modules in this system and figured this together with the P4 3.06 gig would be sufficient for anything I threw at it.

Perhaps I'll try overclocking. Do you think that would help?

I'm using Recklock as my audio renderer and have to admit I haven't been paying too much attention to it; but last night I realised it was showing Yellow instead of Green and within the properties it complained that it couldn't synch with the PAL dvd, since my video timings were not a multiple of 25 HZ.

I didn't know about this constraint before. If I run powerstrip at 1400x1050 I can't get above 60HZ and I don't want to drop down to 50.

When I run at 1280x1024 at 75HZ, reclock is happy with PAL and turns green

I know this thread isn't about Recklock; but this definately also relates to the Average Frame Rate I can achieve.

My question was really, should I be concerned if this Average Frame rate drops a little below 25 FPS with PAL if the movie appears smooth?

I can only hit 25 Average Frame rate at 1280x1024 running overlay instead of VMR9.

I understand there are some contraints with my hardware; but if Recklock will only sync up properly if the timing is a multiple of the frame rate (25HZ) it looks like I would still have this problem even if I threw more CPU power, etc at it, since my pj needs to run at 60HZ when using 1400x1050.

I'd be very interested in other peoples experiences of using Reclock and how it relates to the Average Frame rates they're achieving.

Thanks again.

geoff
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post #659 of 4374 Old 01-07-2004, 03:10 AM
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"Perhaps I'll try overclocking. Do you think that would help?"

It will help, but not with PAL played at anything other then 50,75 or 100Hz.

"When I run at 1280x1024 at 75HZ, reclock is happy with PAL and turns green "

Sounds like you have found the answer

"My question was really, should I be concerned if this Average Frame rate drops a little below 25 FPS with PAL if the movie appears smooth?"

If it looks good why worry.

"I understand there are some contraints with my hardware; but if Recklock will only sync up properly if the timing is a multiple of the frame rate (25HZ) it looks like I would still have this problem even if I threw more CPU power, etc at it, since my pj needs to run at 60HZ when using 1400x1050."

That's the unfortunate truth New projector?

"I'd be very interested in other peoples experiences of using Reclock and how it relates to the Average Frame rates they're achieving."

I have never paid much attention to average frame rate as long as it looks good. You almost never get exactly 25fps anyway. Same as you would not get exactly 30fps for NTSC source.

Regards,

Owen
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post #660 of 4374 Old 01-07-2004, 06:56 AM
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Owen,

Thanks again:

I'm very happy with the Projector. After comparing quite a few I ruled out DLP's since my wife sees rainbows and they give her a headache. The JVC also looks more film like to me than anything else we tried.

I haven't exactly solved my problem, since as I said I want to fill the screen and I can't do that at 1:1 pixel mapping at anything other than 1400x1050. At 1280x1024 my only option to fill the screen would be to change the pj setting from 1:1 pixel mapping to "panel" mode and that would negate the advantage of using resize

Anyway, you've answered my question on how much significance to attach to the average FPS and I've learned something new re PAL and the multiple of 25HZ constraint.

I'm gonna try tweaking XP by turning off non-essential services and ripping the DVD's to HD for playing, to see if that will get me further before daring to try overclocking.

geoff
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