Ffdshow FAQ - Page 25 - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #721 of 4374 Old 01-18-2004, 06:36 PM
Member
 
N3W81E's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 189
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I don't quite understand Jvincent, because when I use reclock with NTSC DVDs, in the properties menu, the fps detected is 23.976, so I set the media adaption to 'refresh/2.5' so the movie will play at 24. The 'VSYNC correction" checkbox is grayed out so I can't enable it. Can you please explain how you got it to work? Thanks. I did follow the instructions given by Ogo in his readme regarding 24fps playback at 60Hz using S/PDIF.

From Ogo's Reclock readme, 'Using the VSYNC tools' section...
Quote:


- It will activate only if the adapted media speed is an exact multiple of the hardware refresh rate (for example a 23.976 fps movie on 75 Hz TV). Since VSYNC/Frame synchronisation issues can only happen if one is an exact multiple of the other, there is no point to use the VSYNC correction when it's not the case

N3W81E is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #722 of 4374 Old 01-18-2004, 06:58 PM
AVS Special Member
 
jvincent's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Posts: 3,348
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Sorry if I wasn't clear. The suggestion to reread the readme was for me.

I am connected to an HDTV so I just set reclock to playback all DVDs as 30FPS. When I had it set to auto I would get sound gaps at the start of DVDs and occaisional dropouts on badly flagged DVDs.

I also have some 30fps discs so it was easiest for me to do it this way.

I have the vsync box checked and like I said, I wasn't sure if it was going to do anything, hence my suggestion for me to reread the readme. I'm guessing that since 3:2 pulldown is happening that vsync may still apply in my case.

I do know that playback is smooth (as smooth as NTSC with 3:2 can be anyhow) and dropout free.
jvincent is offline  
post #723 of 4374 Old 01-19-2004, 08:26 AM
AVS Special Member
 
jvincent's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Posts: 3,348
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
So, I went back and reread ogo's guide and did some checking. Here's what I found......

As I said before, I have my frame rate locked at 30 fps (actually 29.97 but I rounded up for simplicity)

Now, with vsync correction on and the vsync monitor enabled I had the vsync bars scolling up and down the screen. Ogo describes this in his readme and specifically mentions that some renderers may do this so I turned of vsync correction but left the monitor on.

Now with 30fps source the vsync bars are locked solid and very tight, all is good.

With 24 fps material, I get pretty much the same thing, a small bar fixed on one location of the screen. The bar is definitely bigger than with 30fps material. Also, every now and then, it "jumps". The bar will then scroll around once, and then relock. I'm guessing that both of these behaviours are due to some kind of hiccup in the 3:2 pulldown.

In all of this I never heard any audio dropouts or noticeable video stutter.

Now back to our regularly scheduled discussion.
jvincent is offline  
post #724 of 4374 Old 01-19-2004, 11:23 AM
Member
 
Mars1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: PARIS
Posts: 95
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I made some important adjustments in my previously posted reply on how to choose between VRM9 or OVERLAY render.
I had a long week-end with an Engineer expert in "ANALOG and DIGITAL SIGNAL".
Into my previous post, my conclusion was not accurate, but I was on the way to some truth... (Nemo! the oracle just show me the way!!! )
So I think, I found a valid explanation why we could prefer one or the other render method...

Link to page 36 of ffdshow faq

Best regards,

MarsOne...

All the tweaks are good, when they make me just sit down and forget all the hardware & software and only watch the Films!!!
Mars1 is offline  
post #725 of 4374 Old 01-19-2004, 11:25 AM
AVS Club Gold
 
madpoet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 14,003
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Ok... this thread has me confused . Here's what I'm looking for... the best possible picture. I've got an Athlon 2.8 running XPPro. Currently I just use TT and FFDshow with the resize to 1280x720 (native resolution), outputted via DVI to my Panny AE500. In reading all of this, it seems like the Sonic filters from TT are not in fact recommended. Do I need to be looking to buy a different player? Nvidia+Zoomplayer? I'm still lost with all of the different settings and what should be a multiplier of who, and filters. So, to start at the basics. Should I move off of TT and onto one of the other player combos?

Someday maybe I'll actually WATCH my projector...
madpoet is offline  
post #726 of 4374 Old 01-19-2004, 11:50 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Owen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Sydney Australia
Posts: 2,773
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Quote:


Originally posted by madpoet
Ok... this thread has me confused . Here's what I'm looking for... the best possible picture. I've got an Athlon 2.8 running XPPro. Currently I just use TT and FFDshow with the resize to 1280x720 (native resolution), outputted via DVI to my Panny AE500. In reading all of this, it seems like the Sonic filters from TT are not in fact recommended. Do I need to be looking to buy a different player? Nvidia+Zoomplayer? I'm still lost with all of the different settings and what should be a multiplier of who, and filters. So, to start at the basics. Should I move off of TT and onto one of the other player combos?

If you use FFDShow, yes.

But wait for the upcoming NVDVD 3.0. (2.5 was never any good with FFDShow)
Until the release of 3.0, WinDVD holds the crown.

Regards,

Owen

___________________________
The ffdshow resize-sharpen dude.
Owen is offline  
post #727 of 4374 Old 01-19-2004, 11:53 AM
AVS Club Gold
 
madpoet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 14,003
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
So then (to make sure I understand) the idea would be to get NVDVD 3.0 strictly for the codecs, not the player itself. Then I would have to use Zoomplayer to make it work in conjunction with FFDShow (or have they added post processing support to 3.0 now?). I would resize in FFDShow, and then apply Dscaler filters per my preferences. Hopefully I understood

Someday maybe I'll actually WATCH my projector...
madpoet is offline  
post #728 of 4374 Old 01-19-2004, 12:04 PM
Senior Member
 
Thue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Denmark (Copenhagen)
Posts: 307
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
madpoet-> Correct
Thue is offline  
post #729 of 4374 Old 01-19-2004, 04:00 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Vern Dias's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: Allen TX USA
Posts: 4,978
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
However, the nVidia FWMM player ALSO supports the use of FFDSHOW directly without using ZP.

That said, I need ZP for the flexible AR and blanking controls it provides.

Vern
Vern Dias is offline  
post #730 of 4374 Old 01-19-2004, 04:49 PM
AVS Club Gold
 
madpoet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 14,003
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Well, that's good to know if I want to just test the picture of the NVidia player without buying Zoomplayer first. Honestly, I've sunk a lot into software I've ended up not using that I would rather be able to try before I buy .

-MP

Someday maybe I'll actually WATCH my projector...
madpoet is offline  
post #731 of 4374 Old 01-19-2004, 11:45 PM
Senior Member
 
geofstro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Monaco
Posts: 282
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
madpoet,

You can use ZP on a trial basis. It's fully functional, with the only difference being that you have to wait a few seconds and then click one of three buttons as instructed, before it will start.

I've been using it this way to test it; but I'll be buying it in a day or two, since it works well for me.

geoff
geofstro is offline  
post #732 of 4374 Old 01-21-2004, 05:50 AM
Member
 
Mars1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: PARIS
Posts: 95
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I had experienced some very good result with some "poor" encoded DVD with the folowing parameter:
Denoise 3D: 0-0-6(time)-HQ
My DVD was a 4:3 cinemascope NTSC : Hell In Pacific (From John Boorman).
The probleme was the vision of blocs on the subtil graduation of the sky (chapter one title and chapter two for example).
It is almost noticeable after a level filter to extend the contrast.
Dradual denoise can not remove that artifact.
Denoise 3D with usual parameter: 1-1-4-HQ just create some moving "banding".
Denoise 3D with 0-0-6-HQ just solve the problem and the result in the graduation is smoothest than the original video without the higher contrast.
So here is a parameter combination that work very well for this kind of artifact observed on some DVD.
I experienced also great improvment on the diving of the submarine of Titanic (4:3 cinemascope Pal - chapter one just after the title).

MarsOne...

All the tweaks are good, when they make me just sit down and forget all the hardware & software and only watch the Films!!!
Mars1 is offline  
post #733 of 4374 Old 01-23-2004, 07:39 PM
Senior Member
 
pmd918's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Denver
Posts: 367
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Just got my HTPC running - very exciting.

I am running a:

Windows XP Pro
P4 3.06 GHz w/ Hyperthreading
2x256 MB PC2100 dual channel
Sapphire Radeon 9200 128 MB Video card

I am currently outputting video via S-video to a "normal" NTSC TV.

Running TheaterTek w/ ffdshow with the following ffdshow filters in this order:

Dscaler sharpen
ffdshow resize (Lanzcos) to 1280x960 with luma, chroma sharpen
Gradual denoise

The video card is then scaling down to output resolution. Desktop is at 800x600.

I am getting shuddering with these settings - I expected with my processing horsepower that I would be fine with these settings. If I eliminate the Dscaler sharpen, it runs fairly smoothly, but not perfect. I can run at 1120x840 without Dscaler sharpen with smooth picture.

The bios is at default settings, and Windows XP Pro is at default settings.

I don't know whether to expect dramatic improvements in PQ on my old 35" NTSC TV - I'm really just trying to optimize the setup of my HTPC so I'm ready to go when I get an HDTV.

Is this the best I should expect? Maybe there are some settings in the TheaterTek setup that I have incorrect (I have "process whole image" unchecked). Is the video card too slow?

Help!!!
Phil
pmd918 is offline  
post #734 of 4374 Old 01-24-2004, 04:36 AM
Keh
Advanced Member
 
Keh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 531
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Why two sharpening filters? The CPU load will be incredible and I would suspect that the combination works at cross-purposes.

This is an area where often "less is more"; FFDSHOW can lure you into all sorts of combinations and permutations which are not beneficial.
Keh is offline  
post #735 of 4374 Old 01-24-2004, 06:27 AM
AVS Special Member
 
jvincent's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Posts: 3,348
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Agreeing with Keh that less is very often better, your memory is probably the bottleneck for heavy ffdshow processing. If you can use PC3200 in your MB you stand a better chance of running more stuff.
jvincent is offline  
post #736 of 4374 Old 01-24-2004, 07:02 AM
Senior Member
 
llama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 272
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I've found that running FFDSHOW through TheaterTek takes more resoure power than running Intervideo filters and Zoomplayer. I can actually run more items better with the latar configuration.

-------------------------
Rob Megliorino
www.webllama.com
llama is offline  
post #737 of 4374 Old 01-24-2004, 09:07 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Mastiff's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Akland, Norway - on the frozen tundra
Posts: 1,860
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I always run both dScaler sharpening and resize sharpening. Used in moderate amounts dScaler brings out more detail. But I use that before resize. Takes less CPU power then. A DVD like the region 2 Star Wars Episode Two is unwatchably soft without a lot of sharpening, though, so I vary the dScaler amount from movie to movie.

i7@ 3.6 - ATI 3870HD - Windows 7 64 bit - FFDShow with dScaler sharpen, AVISynth and Lancoz resize to BG808 with HD-144 lenses
Mastiff is offline  
post #738 of 4374 Old 01-24-2004, 10:38 AM
Senior Member
 
pmd918's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Denver
Posts: 367
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
llama,

Thanks for the suggestion - I may try that.

Keh & jvincent,

Like Mastiff said, I read somewhere in this huge thread that Dscaler sharpen before ffdshow resize can bring out more detail. It's really a moot point for me now because my processor can't seem to handle it.

jvincent,

My MB can be overclocked from 533 MHz to 800 MHz. If I do that then I can run PC3200 RAM. I'm not overclocking anything at this point.

Will it really make that much difference? If so, I have no problem spending the money to upgrade the RAM. I don't seem to be limited in the amount of RAM at this point, so I'd probably stick to 512 MB (unless you have other suggestions). What about CAS latency?

Thanks,
Phil
pmd918 is offline  
post #739 of 4374 Old 01-24-2004, 11:10 AM
AVS Special Member
 
jvincent's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Posts: 3,348
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
ffdshow processing is very memory and CPU intensive so the more bandwidth you can get into your memory the better. There are lot's of variables involved so it's not necessarily a slam dunk that running 800FSB and PC3200 will make everything work but it should make it better.

512M or RAM should be plenty.
jvincent is offline  
post #740 of 4374 Old 01-25-2004, 03:52 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Mastiff's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Akland, Norway - on the frozen tundra
Posts: 1,860
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 10
pmd918, I would suggest that you tried only sharpen, both types, wihtout denoise. On my system (Barco Graphics 808 CRT projector) that gives me a better picture than using resize plus any denoise.

i7@ 3.6 - ATI 3870HD - Windows 7 64 bit - FFDShow with dScaler sharpen, AVISynth and Lancoz resize to BG808 with HD-144 lenses
Mastiff is offline  
post #741 of 4374 Old 01-25-2004, 11:13 AM
Senior Member
 
pmd918's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Denver
Posts: 367
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Mastiff,

Thanks for the tip - I'll definitely try that.

But that brings up another point. How do most of you evaluate/optimize the filters and settings that you use? Most of the improvements are subtle, and without the ability to do side-by-side comparisons, I find it difficult to see the improvements.

Do you use test patterns from Avia/Digital Essentials? Or do you freeze a frame of a movie? If so, how do you choose the frame(s) to freeze?

Which brings up another point - which of the settings/filters can be adjusted on the fly without restarting TheaterTek?

Suggestions would be appreciated!

Thanks,
Phil
pmd918 is offline  
post #742 of 4374 Old 01-25-2004, 11:46 AM
AVS Special Member
 
jvincent's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Posts: 3,348
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
I usually change setting with a movie I am familiar with and then verify the test patterns in Avia just to see if anything really bad is happening. Test patterns don't tell the whole story though so don't focus on them.

Once I think I'm "done" I usually leave those settings for a week or so to see how it looks with a several different movies.

I use TT with the newer versions of ffdshow, not sure when it started but definitely with 200309727, you can change mose settings on the fly and they will take effect immediately. The exception here is that if you either enable or disable resize or change the resize dimensions. You can change resize algorithms without having to restart.

For test patterns that are "static" like resolution patterns you need to change the chapter after changing ffdshow settings for the changes to be displayed.

EDIT: That should have read 20030927.
jvincent is offline  
post #743 of 4374 Old 01-25-2004, 02:35 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Owen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Sydney Australia
Posts: 2,773
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Welcome pmd918,

Glad to see you have done your homework.
Your choice of filters is to be commended. Dscaler sharpen and resize sharpen work in very different ways and compliment each other very nicely.
Descaler sharpen is great for bringing out fine details, unfortunately it also brings out noise so that you should not use it to excess.
Resize sharpen improves the 3D look of the image and does not noticeably increase noise. The two together work wonders.
Gradual denoise, after resize is a good choice for your level of hardware. Used in moderation it helps to remove noise without degrading the image too much.
Denoise3D used before resize works better but is very demanding on CPU.
Noise reduction is of coarse optional, and not required.

Your FFDShow settings should be subtle and not immediately obvious for best results.
Many people make the mistake of using aggressive settings and then complain that they don't like FFDShow.


As for your shuddering problems, I suggest you try to overclock your system before you replace your RAM. Most RAM can run much faster then specification.
By overclocking you increase RAM and CPU speed. With any luck you should be able to get the RAM running at about 146Mhz and the CPU near 3.3G. This would definitely help. Better RAM would allow about 180Mhz memory speed with a 4/5 divider for the same 3.3G CPU speed and would be even faster.
I used to use a 3.06 P4 @ 2.26 with RAM running at about 180Mhz and it could definitely run the filter combination you want to use.
I tested my 3.06 P4 Notebook with 166Mhz RAM and it can run your settings (just).

512Meg is more then enough RAM for video and DVD playback. Even 256Meg is fine.

Make certain that you are using overlay for output. VMR9 will be much to demanding on your system.

I recomend FFDShow 20032709.

Regards,

Owen

___________________________
The ffdshow resize-sharpen dude.
Owen is offline  
post #744 of 4374 Old 01-25-2004, 03:12 PM
Senior Member
 
pmd918's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Denver
Posts: 367
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Owen,

Thanks for chiming in.

I'm confused about the overlay thing - this may be the problem. How do I know how I'm outputting?

As far as this overclocking stuff is concerned - it's a little over my head. I was just reading the MB instruction manual about setting the BIOS for overclocking. I can set the CPU to overclock either 10%, 20%, or 30% and I think that the other stuff will be set automatically. Or I can set it to "manual" and set the "CPU External Frequency", "CPU Ratio", and "DRAM Frequency".

I need to keep this as simple as possible because, like I said, it's a bit over my head.

Thanks for your help,
Phil
pmd918 is offline  
post #745 of 4374 Old 01-25-2004, 04:08 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Owen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Sydney Australia
Posts: 2,773
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
pmd918,

When playing a DVD right click in the video window and select Filter Properties.
This will show you Graph information.
If you see Video renderer you are using Overlay
If you see Video mixing renderer 9 you are using VMR9

Try the 10% overclock and see how you go.
Its difficult to explain the other settings without being able to see you bios.

Owen

___________________________
The ffdshow resize-sharpen dude.
Owen is offline  
post #746 of 4374 Old 01-25-2004, 04:10 PM
AVS Special Member
 
jvincent's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Posts: 3,348
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Actually, it's even easier than that. Since you are using TT as your DVD player you are using the overlay since TT does not support the VMR renderer yet.
jvincent is offline  
post #747 of 4374 Old 01-25-2004, 04:46 PM
Member
 
aaronc_98's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Posts: 91
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Owen and others,

Where can you find FFDShow 20032709?

I looked on http://sourceforge.net/project/showf...ckage_id=59355

and the latest release is 20030523 and I do not see any with the date you reference.

thanks.

AC
aaronc_98 is offline  
post #748 of 4374 Old 01-25-2004, 05:37 PM
AVS Special Member
 
jvincent's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Posts: 3,348
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
The interim ffdshow builds can be found at:

http://athos.leffe.dnsalias.com/
jvincent is offline  
post #749 of 4374 Old 01-25-2004, 07:32 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Tukkis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Posts: 1,209
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I remember reading somewhere that some versions of ffdshow are optimized for AMD's or Pentiums. Is this true? If so which versions run best with AMD's?

Thanks
Tukkis
Tukkis is offline  
post #750 of 4374 Old 01-25-2004, 07:34 PM
AVS Special Member
 
vpopovic's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Mostly Europe
Posts: 1,353
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quick question.

What do you guys use as output color space in FFDShow? I tried several options and it looks like I am getting the best results with RGB 32 on my setup. This was quick and dirty eyeballing. Will do more testing after I get your input.

I use ATI 9800XT via DVI @ 1280x720x60hz to Samsung DLP. My software is Nvidia Forceware 3.0 beta or alternatively Sonic, both with VMR9 renderer, and FFDShow resize to 1280x720 with a grain of chroma and luma resize sharpen (about 3).

Thanks for your input.

Vlad
______________________________

What I really want is VR, but for now I'll settle with 1080p and DTS HD MS!
vpopovic is offline  
Reply Home Theater Computers

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off