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post #181 of 4374 Old 08-27-2003, 02:35 AM
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Owen,
Quote:


I am surprised that you can see any noticeable sharpening affect with Ds sharpen set 40-80 after resize to 1280x720. It must be very subtle.
Are you certain that Dscaler sharpen is doing anything?
I can only just see an affect with it set to 80 after a 1024x768 resize. I have to use a much higher setting for it to be very noticeable.

Oh yes, it is clearly doing things.

I think the degree of perceived effect for any of these enhancers or smoothers is going to have a lot to do with the display size and its ability to resolve detail. On my 110" screen and with WinDVD decoders as a source, the resize and sharpen section do an excellent job of clarifying an image without disproportionately bringing forward ringing and other compression artifacts. The WinDVD filter is clearly superior in this regard and is enhanced by the resizing. What Ds does after that at the low settings is bring forth more subtle fine detail, textures, etc.. There's a point at which the compression ghosting starts to come forward, and I keep it right below that, which ends up between about 40 and 80. I don't look at edge detail so much as inner detail of objects -- that is very hard to discern at smaller screen sizes.

I haven't seen PowerDVD's 2.55 decoder yet as a comparison, but otherwise have all the decoders and have tried a variety of configurations with decoders and effects. Sonic probably comes the closest to WinDVD but it isn't all that close. It misses a lot of inner detail that simply cannot be recovered later. No matter what I try ( and I try a lot of different combinations) the WinDVD, resize, ds, soften combination always seem to be the most believable. But I'm quite sure that different combinations will look better on certain sizes and types of screens -- not necessarily the most accurate, but the most fun to watch.

--Bill
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post #182 of 4374 Old 08-27-2003, 06:55 AM
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bblue,
I think the degree of perceived effect for any of these enhancers or smoothers is going to have a lot to do with the display size and its ability to resolve detail.

Absolutely.
Viewing distance is important as well. 50 screen at 10' is the same as 100 screen at 20'. Or a 20 screen at 4'. How fare do you sit from the screen?


On my 110" screen and with WinDVD decoders as a source, the resize and sharpen section do an excellent job of clarifying an image without disproportionately bringing forward ringing and other compression artifacts.

Yay, another satisfied customer.

What Ds does after that at the low settings is bring forth more subtle fine detail, textures, etc.. There's a point at which the compression ghosting starts to come forward, and I keep it right below that, which ends up between about 40 and 80. I don't look at edge detail so much as inner detail of objects

Is it not possible for you to attain this effect using DS sharpen before resize, but with much lower settings?

Regards,

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post #183 of 4374 Old 08-27-2003, 09:31 AM
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Owen and bblue,

Can you tell me which FFDSHOW version you use?
I am getting ConnectPin error with ZP3.20 beta 2+WinDVD 4+FFDSHOW.

Regards
Tushar Bhavsar
PT-L500U, Dvine V4, P4 2.6C, WinXPpro SP2, 9500Pro, Cat 6.4, Revo7.1, PowerDVD 5.0
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post #184 of 4374 Old 08-27-2003, 04:50 PM
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Okay Im new to this program so bare with me please, Im using powerstrip theatertek dvd with ffdshow program, its wonderful I love the pic improvement that it gives, but Im lossing pic size. my screen is 96" wide, powerstip config of 1280x720 @60hz, when ffdshow is used the pic shrinks a bit to about 94" whats happening? Just incase someone asks I cannot increase the pic anymore, not good for the raster already at 92% wide.
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post #185 of 4374 Old 08-27-2003, 06:02 PM
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Owen,
Quote:


Viewing distance is important as well. 50 screen at 10' is the same as 100 screen at 20'. Or a 20 screen at 4'. How fare do you sit from the screen?

Close, 9-10'. While your distance comparisons are certainly valid I don't think it's quite that cut and dry. The amount of detail that, say, a 20" screen is able to produce is less than that of a 40" screen, so while the size and distance ratio is exact, detail produced isn't. Sort of like looking at a 8x10 photograph, and then the same negative printed to 3x5. You can get as close as you want, but some of the detail seen in the 8x10 just isn't there in the 3x5.

On a large screen projector, mid-size RPTV or smaller direct-view set, it's not only the size differences but also the way in which a given smaller screen set handles details that are below its physical resolution capabilities.
Quote:


What Ds does after that at the low settings is bring forth more subtle fine detail, textures, etc.. There's a point at which the compression ghosting starts to come forward, and I keep it right below that, which ends up between about 40 and 80. I don't look at edge detail so much as inner detail of objects

Is it not possible for you to attain this effect using DS sharpen before resize, but with much lower settings?

You know, I haven't tried this recently. Last time I did several weeks ago I was not able to get the same level of inner detail with Ds first. It was close but there was something about the edges of objects that got out of whack. I'll try it again over the next few viewings and see what it looks like. I also want to take a look at the latest WinDVD filters, as well as PowerDVD 2.55 filters (with ZP Pro, of course).


tbhavsar, I'm using ffdshow 030523 version and have found it to be quite stable.


robv47, the number position of the width control doesn't necessarily mean much, it's how wide the image is on your tube faces. If the image is already really close to the tube face edges it means your projector is mounted a little too close to the screen. But since you say it's ok until you use ffdshow, you can either increase the width with the width control, or in the adjustments in powerstrip. Different sources and processing will affect projected width by an inch or two, and movies vary that much by themselves. I usually just overscan by about that much and don't worry about it.

Also, you might find better performance on movies with your vertical at 72hz. Use 60hz only for all-video (no film used anywhere) presentations.

--Bill
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post #186 of 4374 Old 08-27-2003, 11:32 PM
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Weird how ffdshow can react at times. I had a CPU problem (with only 1024x768 resize, dScaler sharpness and picture properties). Everything was at 100 %, and I thouhgt it was weird since it's an AMD XP2600+. Then I tried to move PP after DS instead of before, and that took care of it!

Also I have moderated my dScaler sharpness a bit, I found out that in some scenes my setting (133) was giving a grainy look, but going down to around 80 fixed that. If this rapid increas in picture quality continues my movies will be true 3D within a year or so!

i7@ 3.6 - ATI 3870HD - Windows 7 64 bit - FFDShow with dScaler sharpen, AVISynth and Lancoz resize to BG808 with HD-144 lenses
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post #187 of 4374 Old 08-27-2003, 11:48 PM
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Hi Mastiff,

presume you are using the windvd filters, if so which ones? also are you using ati drivers.

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post #188 of 4374 Old 08-28-2003, 06:05 AM
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Mastiff: What are you using in Picture Properties?

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post #189 of 4374 Old 08-28-2003, 06:50 AM
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Mastiff & Bill - Thanks for your reply;

Yesterday I tried ZP3.2Beta 2 + winDVD 4(Video) + PowerDVD5 (Audio)+FFDSHOW (20021213 version) with all other steps mention in 'http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/printthread.php?threadid=226357&perpage=348' thread'

I still get the ConnectPin error for Video;

I am still wondering, DO I NEED TO ADD ALLOWALLRENDERERS registration key; I do not know how to do that.

1. How to find HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\\SOFTWARE for WinDVD 4 or PowerDVD

2. Do I need to do following STEP 7 of 'http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/printthread.php?threadid=226357&perpage=348' thread;

STEP 7. Go to HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\\SOFTWARE\\Sonic\\CineMaster DS DVD\\2.5\\VideoDecoder and look for the variable FORCEPROGRESSIVE. Double click this entry and change the value data to 1. Also add a new DWORD Value named ALLOWALLRENDERERS and set the value to 1 also. (Also add, HardCodeForPal=1 if people are playing a PAL DVD). Close the registry editor.

Please help;

Regards
Tushar Bhavsar
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post #190 of 4374 Old 08-28-2003, 07:43 AM
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S.Morris, I use WinDVD 5 platinum. And I'm on Catalyst 3.6.

JBlacklow, from top to bottom: 140, 8, all gammas off, 4 & 82.

Tushar, you're talking about the steps to get Cinemaster working. Look further up in this thread, I explained to to Burre how do do this.

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post #191 of 4374 Old 08-28-2003, 09:23 AM
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Mastiff,

Thanks for your direction; I will try that tonight.

Regards
Tushar Bhavsar
PT-L500U, Dvine V4, P4 2.6C, WinXPpro SP2, 9500Pro, Cat 6.4, Revo7.1, PowerDVD 5.0
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post #192 of 4374 Old 08-28-2003, 02:49 PM
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I was wondering what options in ffdshow you guys use? Can you recommend to me what ones are most important and which ones you would use if you had unlimited CPU power?

What settings would you use?

Also... I was wondering what DVD software decoder is know for the best image quality when used with FFDshow and zoomplayer?

Thanks!

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post #193 of 4374 Old 08-28-2003, 11:14 PM
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If you hadn't had all those posts behind you I'd be tempted to call you a newbie on the forum! Asking questions without looking a few pages back. Where have I seen that before? Oh yes, I did it myself a week ago! If you look at the previous page you'll see a rather thorough shotout I had with WinDVD and Cinemaster (the two best filters), and there's a lot of advice about settings of ffdshow in the last 3-4 pages. Basically WinDVD resized to your desktop size (which probably should be your display devices native size if you use a digital projector) is the answer.

i7@ 3.6 - ATI 3870HD - Windows 7 64 bit - FFDShow with dScaler sharpen, AVISynth and Lancoz resize to BG808 with HD-144 lenses
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post #194 of 4374 Old 08-28-2003, 11:50 PM
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Hi

Any one using the new 5.1 Windvd filters

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post #195 of 4374 Old 08-29-2003, 04:49 AM
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Tushar, you should really upgrade your ffdshow to 20030523. I've never had consistent performance with any of the earlier ones, with strange errors and the like.

Vaggeto, WinDVD Platinum filter versions (most any of them) outperform all for detail and accuracy. For best performance use all software decode (turn off hardware options in WinDVD's video tab). In ZP Pro you need to include the DMO Abstract filter with the settings at zero. In ffdshow, use resize to your native screen size and with the lanczos sharpening filter, and dscaler sharpening at between 40 and 80. Owen swears that placing dscaler before resize is the way to go, but I use it after resize with good results. Try it both ways and judge for yourself.

s.morris, I just started using the 5.1 filters (was 5.0, and 4.5xx before that) and they seem just fine.

Owen and others, I may have mentioned before that VMR9 looked promising to me recently, compared to overlay. Using software decoding and WinDVD filters, I definitely ruled it out as a contender. So far, every time I've tried to switch to VMR9 on any filter it is noticeably a softer image, and has less depth of field. Veiled, may be another way to describe it. I'm not really sure why that would be...

--Bill
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post #196 of 4374 Old 08-29-2003, 04:54 AM
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Does anyone have any problems with ffdshow and the dscaler deinterlacing filter? ZP consistently crashes when I use this combination. I've tried it on 0523 as well as the July and August builds.

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post #197 of 4374 Old 08-29-2003, 12:32 PM
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Mastiff;

Thanks for your help; after running those .reg files from your prev. post, I was able run ffdshow first time;

I do not see any significant PQ improvement; It sounds like I have to play around more; I have P4 HT 2.6C CPU; Keeping Resize & Sharp on the top frezes the image; I get only sound so I dropped it for now...

Bill,
Thanks for you info; I have 20030523 version of FFDSHOW and I will upgrade this weekend.

Please post your favourate FFDSHOW setting when you get a chance.

Have a great weekend.

Regards
Tushar Bhavsar
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post #198 of 4374 Old 08-29-2003, 01:40 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by Mastiff
If you hadn't had all those posts behind you I'd be tempted to call you a newbie on the forum! Asking questions without looking a few pages back. Where have I seen that before? Oh yes, I did it myself a week ago! If you look at the previous page you'll see a rather thorough shotout I had with WinDVD and Cinemaster (the two best filters), and there's a lot of advice about settings of ffdshow in the last 3-4 pages. Basically WinDVD resized to your desktop size (which probably should be your display devices native size if you use a digital projector) is the answer.

LOL, yah.. I do that a lot and come up with nothing... and when I saw 10 pages and the first page didn't have much, I figured I'd just ask. We all get lazy sometimes :-)

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post #199 of 4374 Old 08-30-2003, 08:13 AM
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In your FFDshow settings, do you guys have the "Process Whole Image" box at the top checked for everything you're using? I'm assuming so, but if that's not the way it should be done, let us know.

Right now I'm running (in this order):
Resize @ 960x540 (1HD's native rez, same as PS) w/ Lanczos, Luma 1.5/Chroma 1.0
Dscaler filter-FLT_Sharpness (from bbqkl's page, not the version that came with DScaler) @ 80 w/Fast Memory Access checked
Blur & NR-Gradual Denoise @ 35

This is WinDVD 5.1+Sonic/AC3Filter (testing)+FFDshow 05232003+Reclock 1.1

ETA: What are your AC3Filter settings, Mastiff? For right now, I just changed it to SPDIF output and left everything else at what it was. Is it better than using Sonic audio decoders?

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post #200 of 4374 Old 08-30-2003, 08:52 AM
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I don't think the "process whole image" setting does anything good, I belive it makes ffdshow work on the "black bars" in widescreen movies, but I might be wrong.

Sonic has given me problems with dropouts every now and then. I have used PowerDVD most of the time, bur I recently found out that it gives me more uneven pans (I think that's what's called microstutter). AC3 filter is better in that respect. And I use standard settings from the installation, I believe. Direct sound output.

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post #201 of 4374 Old 08-30-2003, 10:05 AM
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Hmmm...I remember somewhere (Owen?) it was mentioned that specifically turning on "process whole image" was necessary. If not, then maybe that would help with the 100% processor usage (but no A/V stutter!).

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post #202 of 4374 Old 08-30-2003, 12:52 PM
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What about deinterlacing?

I've been very pleased using just resize (1440x720) with chroma&luma sharpening.

However, I've discovered that with some discs, I really need to turn ffdshow off and go "hardware mode" because the deinterlacing is so bad. (bad flags maybe) Any fix for this?

Thanks.

Cary
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post #203 of 4374 Old 08-30-2003, 02:51 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by bblue
Tushar, you should really upgrade your ffdshow to 20030523. I've never had consistent performance with any of the earlier ones, with strange errors and the like.

Vaggeto, WinDVD Platinum filter versions (most any of them) outperform all for detail and accuracy. For best performance use all software decode (turn off hardware options in WinDVD's video tab). In ZP Pro you need to include the DMO Abstract filter with the settings at zero. In ffdshow, use resize to your native screen size and with the lanczos sharpening filter, and dscaler sharpening at between 40 and 80. Owen swears that placing dscaler before resize is the way to go, but I use it after resize with good results. Try it both ways and judge for yourself.

s.morris, I just started using the 5.1 filters (was 5.0, and 4.5xx before that) and they seem just fine.

Owen and others, I may have mentioned before that VMR9 looked promising to me recently, compared to overlay. Using software decoding and WinDVD filters, I definitely ruled it out as a contender. So far, every time I've tried to switch to VMR9 on any filter it is noticeably a softer image, and has less depth of field. Veiled, may be another way to describe it. I'm not really sure why that would be...

--Bill


"With In ZP Pro you need to include the DMO Abstract filter with the settings at zero"...

I was wondering if this is the DMO_V Intervideo Abstract option under filters??
When I use this I get a VERY screwed up picture... also when I go to filter properties nothing comes up. Any input?

Also.. where do I get the dscaler sharpening plugin? I installed dscaler and it still doesn't give me any plugins in ZP.

Thanks

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post #204 of 4374 Old 08-30-2003, 03:09 PM
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Yeah, go to bbq's webpage and get the abstract.reg file. Or simply open WinDVD, play a movie, go to video effect (or whatever it's called in english, you've got it on the far left of the user interface part of WinDVD, select Abstract and move the slider to the left. It's actually supposed to look screwy, that's what's abstract.

As for the dScaler plugin you'll need to find it with the box that you'll get from that page in ffdshow. Just like opening any other file.

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post #205 of 4374 Old 08-30-2003, 06:59 PM
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I do not have that option in my version of WinDVD... I will look into upgrading.

I don't have the dscaler plugin... I open up scalker.. and go to the plugin area of settings, and it's empty. Where do I get it?

Also, what is bbw's webpage? I've never heard of that term here before.

Thanks for the help!

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post #206 of 4374 Old 08-30-2003, 08:23 PM
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To the best of my knowledge Process whole image does what Mastiff has said.
It makes ffdshow work on the "black bars" top and bottom not very useful.
I can't see any reason to use it.

What about deinterlacing?

You could try the deinterlace filters in ffdshow.
I like the 5 tap low pass and Median filters best.

Regards,

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post #207 of 4374 Old 08-30-2003, 08:53 PM
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Madsly,
Thanks for posting you batch files for swapping ffdshow versions.
I had already done this myself so that I could use the new alpha build to view Divx and Xvid video. I like the new denoise3d filter.


I still can't get the new alpha to work with WinDVD5 video filter. Sound is way out of sync even with the new audio processing functions disabled.
So I have to swap versions back to the older 5/23 build to view DVD's.
Some of you may wish to try Madsly's batch files to swap versions.
I also swap ffdshow's registry entries when I swap versions. I have exported .reg files to do this. It may not be required but it saves me having to change ffdshow settings manually between Divx and DVD setups.

Regards,

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post #208 of 4374 Old 08-31-2003, 12:22 AM
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Well.. after deciding to uninstall all of my video related files... and reinstalling them... I cannot get Zoom player to work with ffdshow... at all.
No matter what I try from people who have had problems I get the error "pins did not accept" The only way I can get a DVD to play is to disable FFDshow. One thing I will note about what I couldn't try and fix were ffdshow settings. I noticed some people recommend chaning ffdshow settings... but this is impossible for me unless it works and I can right click and choose it from filter properties. Is there another way?

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post #209 of 4374 Old 08-31-2003, 01:28 AM
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Vaggeto, as for the dScaler plugin you need to open the "open file" box in ffdshow, under dScaler, and go to the directory where you installed dScaler.

i7@ 3.6 - ATI 3870HD - Windows 7 64 bit - FFDShow with dScaler sharpen, AVISynth and Lancoz resize to BG808 with HD-144 lenses
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post #210 of 4374 Old 08-31-2003, 04:30 AM
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Thanks Mastiff.. as soon as I'm able to get ffdshow working.. I'll do that.

So far I have reinstalled WinDVD and powerDVD 2-3 times each, I've updated to directX 9b, reinstalled zoomplayer about 10 times, reinstalled ffdshow about 15 times trying different versions, with/withuot post processing etc...

With the 5-20 very of ffdshow I got close to it working. With windvd it would say "Access violation at address 1C24F1B3 in module qdvd.dll. Read of address 00000008"
and with powerDVD I get "Floating point division by zero"

With every other version of ffdshow I get pins did not accept error.

BTW.. I search for the qdvd.dll file and it's not on my computer, so I have no idea how it's using it... this could be my problem?

I have no clue... but I think a reinstall won't fix anything... since the only thing I did was uninstall all DVD player/related programs.

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