T2 extreme edition in HD!!! - Page 7 - AVS Forum
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Home Theater Computers > T2 extreme edition in HD!!!
tombarry's Avatar tombarry 09:13 PM 04-24-2003
While this was coming to light I replaced my mb and processor and video card. I have tested the windows sample files on my raw system which is an AMD 2500+ with an nVideo GeForce 440 MX440. It ran with stuttering. When I up'ed the the front bus speed from 100 mhz to 166 mhx the sample videos ran smooth as silk.

Jeff Williams's Avatar Jeff Williams 10:46 PM 04-24-2003
Go to Circuit City and pick up the new Windows XP Demo Disc. It is a DVD and it contains all three BMW films in1280x720 and 5.1. Best part, it's free.

Jeff
Phat Phreddy's Avatar Phat Phreddy 10:59 PM 04-24-2003
Could someone pick me up that disc please... I will happily PayPal you any shipping... Being a big BMW fan and Frankenhiemer and HD fan... Its a no brainer...

Drop me a mail or IM...
Phat Phreddy's Avatar Phat Phreddy 11:05 PM 04-24-2003
BTW, Just how huge are those 3 clips ??
Jeff Williams's Avatar Jeff Williams 11:49 PM 04-24-2003
Phreddy,

I guess there are no CC's by you? Paying for something that is free. You don't see that happening too often. I should be able to help you out if no one else will.

All three files would be about 1.5GB. There is actually an option in the menu to copy it onto your hard drive. Never thought I would see that.

Jeff
Phat Phreddy's Avatar Phat Phreddy 12:33 AM 04-25-2003
Jeff, I am on an Island in the Andaman Ocean... Not to many CC's no :) !!

If you or anyone could help I would gladly cover any costs...
uk.steve's Avatar uk.steve 05:22 AM 04-25-2003
Could always use edonkey or some other P2P application to quickly share the free BMW demo disc.
Phat Phreddy's Avatar Phat Phreddy 06:19 AM 04-25-2003
Sure except I have a 3GB cap per month (that I always seem to blow) and about $25 / GB after... 1.5 GB would be a PITA....

Plus even if they are giving it away under this situation they hold copyright and redistribution without permission may not be explicit...
TYBZ's Avatar TYBZ 07:34 AM 04-25-2003
Hey, I would also appreciated a ship by mail if someone is generous enough, I’ll pay Paypal. I’m a Canadian citizen, so it shouldn’t be too pricey. PM me if you want to make happy an HD enthusiasm :)

Or, if not, could someone upload me the Beat the Devil film on my FTP?

URL: mercury.serveftp.net
PORT: 21

PM me for the account coordinates.

Thanks in advance.
Erik Garci's Avatar Erik Garci 08:32 AM 04-25-2003
Quote:
Originally posted by Jeff Williams
Go to Circuit City and pick up the new Windows XP Demo Disc.
What part of the store has it? Are they in a stack out in the open, or do you have to ask for it?
Jeff Williams's Avatar Jeff Williams 09:10 AM 04-25-2003
Erik,

We have them at each checkout in the computer department. They are just sitting there in a stack out in the open. Other stores may have them in a different spot, so it's probably easiest to ask. We just got them Monday or Tuesday of this week. So if a store doesn't have them, they may be waiting for the Microsoft rep to stop in.

Jeff

P.S. - I say we because I work at a Circuit City. Don't laugh, I actually know what's going on. I follow technology religiously, so I'm not just some guy selling you stuff. I actually know what it is and what it does.
JerryW's Avatar JerryW 08:44 PM 04-25-2003
Jeff, you know the rules -- nobody with a clue is allowed to work for CC, or BB. You will soon either be fired, or worse, "disappeared." The rules must be obeyed to insure a consistent customer experience, the corporation does not want customers to expect good service and then be disappointed the next time they come into a store.

Meanwhile, I don't think this has been mentioned yet but the BMW shorts on the free disc are TIME-LIMITED. They are all DRM'd up and you will only be able to get a 2-month playback license for them. After that, too bad sucker. So Phat Freddy, you might want to reconsider paying for them.
trbarry's Avatar trbarry 09:30 PM 04-25-2003
Quote:
Meanwhile, I don't think this has been mentioned yet but the BMW shorts on the free disc are TIME-LIMITED.
Which brings up the issue of how do you find out if something is time limited. For instance, is Standing in the Shadows of Motown or T2 also time limited?

Certainly Microsoft has the right to time limit a free sampler. But if I paid money based upon an expectation of buying a DVD it would be very annoying to find I had only rented it, with no disclosure. Is this a possibility?

- Tom
Phat Phreddy's Avatar Phat Phreddy 09:47 PM 04-25-2003
Thanks for the warning but to be honest I dont care if I can get them in the next month...

My little brother is visiting for a couple of months of sun, sand, girls, and goodtimes and as he is a amature stunt driver in his BMW I would love to get him to see these in high quality (plus I expect the free DVD in the next little while anyway)...

Secondly it will give me an incentive to see how the DRM functions (given I have 3 partitions on my HTPC and another 2 machines in the home I assume I can extend my access somewhat)... I like Tom would like to know more about the mechanics of the system (and perhaps have to put that non DRM WMP9 on one machine) what files are being stored and moved where... What packets are moving to what addresses etc...
Blight's Avatar Blight 10:25 PM 04-25-2003
I don't see how time-based DRM would work. I can understand the content encrypted to the disk while downloading to prevent a copy, but there's no real way to enforce time based encryption.
Phat Phreddy's Avatar Phat Phreddy 10:30 PM 04-25-2003
WMP9 has it... I know transmission films offers indi movies in streaming and download 5 day and download unlimited versions based on different price levels...
Alric's Avatar Alric 10:34 PM 04-25-2003
My experience with the XP demo disc is less than ideal.

First, the auto demo will not run at lower than 800 x 600 resolution. I have an RPTV set to 540p so the autorun won't work.

Second, after installing WMP9, I can manually navigate to the HD movies. When I try to open a video clip it attempts to gather a license or whatever but it takes me to a "content not found" page at microsoft. Meaning that none of the clips will run.

Anybody else encountered this?

Thanks,
amirm's Avatar amirm 10:52 PM 04-25-2003
Quote:
Originally posted by trbarry
Which brings up the issue of how do you find out if something is time limited. For instance, is Standing in the Shadows of Motown or T2 also time limited?

Certainly Microsoft has the right to time limit a free sampler. But if I paid money based upon an expectation of buying a DVD it would be very annoying to find I had only rented it, with no disclosure. Is this a possibility?

- Tom
Our DRM system has indeed the capability for timed play. It is up to the content owner to use this feature or not. Timed play is usually used for promotional or subscription content which is not the case with Artisan HD DVDs. As far as I know, there is no expiration on the license for these.

As you guessed, for the BMW clip, we only got limited rights for certain period and hence the type of license that comes with it. As I mentioned in another thread, BMW highly values these HD clips and does not want to give them away for free forever.

BTW, you can get the details of the license by looking at the Properties of the media and click on the "license" tab. You can do this either in the shell or media player.

Amir
Microsoft
Alric's Avatar Alric 10:53 PM 04-25-2003
Why do you think I can't reach the license Amir?
Blight's Avatar Blight 10:57 PM 04-25-2003
You mean it requires an internet connection to download a valid license in order to play the media file? If this will be on T2 ... that would mean you won't be able to play it on your HTPC without an internet connection. Somewhat draconian.

Edit:
Look like as I was typing this, it was made clear that T2 won't have a timed license. But does the standard DRM require an internet connection?
amirm's Avatar amirm 11:15 PM 04-25-2003
Yes, T2 will require a net connection for the first time to get the license. Please look at my other posts for more details on this.

Amir
Microsoft
llamameat's Avatar llamameat 11:18 PM 04-25-2003
amirm,

Well, I finally saw a wmv hd encode running on my friends p4 3.0ghz machine and I have to admit I was very impressed. In fact, I'd be willing to upgrade my computer so that I could achieve such results (xp1800).

However, you mentioned that soon we might have hardware support for wmv playback? If so, would it even be nessecary to upgrade (ti4600)? Basically, what I'm wondering is how much help are you expecting hardware assistence to provide in decoding?

sorry if this isn't the right thread to post this question
JerryW's Avatar JerryW 11:27 PM 04-25-2003
Quote:
Originally posted by Blight
I don't see how time-based DRM would work. I can understand the content encrypted to the disk while downloading to prevent a copy, but there's no real way to enforce time based encryption.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Then are dreamt of in your philosophy.

Without a rock-solid palladium, none of this stuff is fool-proof (remember Xing?). But other than that, a time-limited license is relatively trivial. You have to understand that the only time the material is ever decrypted is during playback. It never exists in decrypted form anywhere but in RAM.

So, you get a 2 month window from issuance to playback the video an unlimited number of times. I doubt the system checks in with DRM central on every playback. Probably just once to start, and then *maybe* if it thinks you've been fiddling with the system date and it decides it needs to check for itself.

As far as Amir has said, the T2 stuff, like the Motown stuff, is not time-limited, just machine-id locked. So you need to disable your defenses just once to get the key, and maybe exchange some other information behind the scenes, and then you should be good to go autonomously.
hgodwin's Avatar hgodwin 11:28 PM 04-25-2003
llamameat,
I think you will need to upgrade to a newer video card from either ati, nvidia, or s3 to take advantage of the new acceleration features. I do not think it is possible to be done in software.

I too am interesting in how much help will be available. I personally would assume, that it would put the cpu need at 2ghz or less which is in the range of almost any system bought in the last year or so.

hgodwin
amirm's Avatar amirm 11:29 PM 04-25-2003
I am glad you liked the quality.

Hardware assist should drop the CPU requirement by a factor of 2. But, you would still need to buy a new graphics card to get there. Since I don't expect these to become available until later this year, a fast CPU is the way to go for now.

Amir
Blight's Avatar Blight 11:59 PM 04-25-2003
Internet connection is going to break a lot of HTPC support as a lot of people isolate their systems from an external network.

I can also see a lot of other issues. I'm guessing the license is built according to a serial on the disc and a unique code generated by the PC (sort of like windows activation).

What'll happen if you change hardware (as lots of HTPC folk do), what will happen in the clerk at the store used the DVD to install a local copy, taking your key then carefully wrapping it back. What will happen if the Microsoft server is inaccessible, or for some reason has a glitch that doesn't recognize a series of serial numbers.

As Mr.T used to say "I pitty the fools in tech support that will have to take this on".
amirm's Avatar amirm 12:13 AM 04-26-2003
There is fair amount of resilience in the id generation so it survives some hardware changes. It is up to the content owners to decide what to do when you change enough components to change the ID. Some re-issue the license to you N times, others may not. I am not familiar with Artisan's policy on this.

Sorry, I don't understand the reference to the clerk or DVD.

Yes, there are more moving parts here but note that you can put the content legally on your hard disk when you are done. So you give up some flexibility up front and gain it later in usability. And as I mentioned before, we have technology to perform local license issuance that will roll in later, mitigating the need for net connection.

Amir
Microsoft
trbarry's Avatar trbarry 06:42 AM 04-26-2003
Quote:
Why do you think I can't reach the license Amir?
I'm not Amir, but I can tell you what I did.

On the second machine I played Shadows on it failed to get a license the first time I tried it.

The second time it seemed to succeed but played only audio.

I then rebooted and dbl clicked on the dvdrun.exe on the disk and it worked fine. I won't attempt to answer the "why?" part. ;)

- Tom
trbarry's Avatar trbarry 07:34 AM 04-26-2003
Quote:
BTW, you can get the details of the license by looking at the Properties of the media and click on the "license" tab. You can do this either in the shell or media player.
I can no longer play the content on Shadows using dvdrun.exe but I can start it by clicking on any of the wmv or asx files.

When I choose properties/license all it says is "Protected Content".

I was hoping for a bit more. ;)

- Tom
Jeff Williams's Avatar Jeff Williams 08:09 AM 04-26-2003
Amir,

What about rental DVD's? One DVD can be played on dozens of computers. How will this effect the ID generation? Each person is entitled to watch it, but won't they have problems if someone already has before?

Thanks,
Jeff
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