T2 extreme edition in HD!!! - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 349 Old 04-09-2003, 05:35 PM - Thread Starter
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From the PR:

ere are the complete, and final, specs for the upcoming T2: Extreme Edition

# 2.35:1 anamorphic widescreen transfer digitally mastered from a brand-new 1080p, 24sf high-definition digital telecine transfer.
# Dolby Digital 5.1 EX audio.
# Dolby headphone audio track
# All-new audio commentary by James Cameron and co-screenwriter William Wisher.
# Extreme interactive mode with graphic commentary and behind-the-scenes footage
# 16 minutes of additional scenes.
# "No Feat But What We Make": an all-new documentary.
# "T2: On the Set" retrospective montage
# "T2: High Definition": the complete theatrical version of the film in Microsoft Windows Media 9 series, playable in high resolution and 5.1 sound directly from your PC
# Infiltration Unit Simulator and T2 FX Studio: morph your imported images into a T-1000 or T-800 Terminator
# Skynet Combat Chassis Designer: Construct and field-test your own ultimate fighting machine and track your progress online
# THX optimizer
# Metal collectible sculpture embossed package

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post #2 of 349 Old 04-09-2003, 05:42 PM
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One of my favorite movies of all time... and yet another edition to buy (I have the Ultimate Edition now). Guess the Ultimate edition wasn't the ultimate, huh? False advertising!

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post #3 of 349 Old 04-09-2003, 06:12 PM
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When dealing in editions Extreme is better than Ultimate :D I thought everyone knew that :p

;)

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post #4 of 349 Old 04-09-2003, 06:33 PM
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This new edition is talked about extensively here: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...hreadid=242448

The most interesting comment is that it is supposed to be 1080p/24. I think this would make it the first such disk released anywhere for public consumption.
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post #5 of 349 Old 04-09-2003, 07:18 PM - Thread Starter
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I think the 1080p/24 comment refers to the source.

What I want to know is how WM9 will display 1080i? Or are they planning it to be 540p and 720p?

I guess we'll see...
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post #6 of 349 Old 04-09-2003, 08:05 PM
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Will these DVD's play in these new formats with any PC DVD player?
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post #7 of 349 Old 04-09-2003, 08:42 PM
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So let me get this straight: no discrete audio, unless you have something like a Revo hooked up to a 6 channel analog out into a pre/pro with 6 channel inputs, and the thing takes a 2.6ghz P4 to decode high bitrate WMV9 video? Holy Crap!

Even if I hook up my Revo to my receiver with 6 channel analog, I don't have a processor in the HTPC that can decode that thing! The only machine I will have with that chip won't have the Revo in it, so I think I am SOL. Oh well, dream deferred. Guess I will have to wait for HD-DVD or Blu Ray or something...

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post #8 of 349 Old 04-09-2003, 08:53 PM
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How is anyone gonna play this file? I can just barely play the 720p WM9 clips from the MS site on my athlon 1900XP. My htpc with 1.2ghz duron just dies on those clips.
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post #9 of 349 Old 04-09-2003, 09:07 PM
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Alric,
The 1080p comment is in reference to the disk itself. It is not advertised yet what the WM9 version will be. It just says high definition. But an insiders view on the thread that I linked to says that it will be 1080p/24.
WM9 will allow you to show it at whatever resolution your monitor or display will allow. I know my monitor can do 1080p.

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post #10 of 349 Old 04-09-2003, 09:09 PM
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Kamakzie,
Any Dvd-rom will be able to play these disks. The big issues is processing power and proper sound cards.
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post #11 of 349 Old 04-09-2003, 09:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by RDaneel
So let me get this straight: no discrete audio, unless you have something like a Revo hooked up to a 6 channel analog out into a pre/pro with 6 channel inputs, and the thing takes a 2.6ghz P4 to decode high bitrate WMV9 video? Holy Crap!

Even if I hook up my Revo to my receiver with 6 channel analog, I don't have a processor in the HTPC that can decode that thing! The only machine I will have with that chip won't have the Revo in it, so I think I am SOL. Oh well, dream deferred. Guess I will have to wait for HD-DVD or Blu Ray or something...

RDaneel
RDaneel,
I have read that the actual specs say that one needs a 3.0 ghz processor to full process the disk. Fortunately, the next gen video cards will be able to offload some of the necessary processing and allow one to use a slower processor. Cards such as the upcoming S3 Deltachrome should be able to do this for close to 100 dollars if not less. So all hope is not lost yet.

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post #12 of 349 Old 04-09-2003, 10:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by hgodwin
RDaneel,
I have read that the actual specs say that one needs a 3.0 ghz processor to full process the disk. Fortunately, the next gen video cards will be able to offload some of the necessary processing and allow one to use a slower processor. Cards such as the upcoming S3 Deltachrome should be able to do this for close to 100 dollars if not less. So all hope is not lost yet.

hgodwin
Actually, in one of the past posts opn this subject (ther is one in the software section and one in this forum) a guy involved in the project (whos name I can't remember) said the resolution was on the order of 720p. He also said that if the step into liquid demo worked on your PC then this would work because they made it so a lower end system than the ones that could handle the demo could handle this WM9 material. There werre plenty of people, as I recall, with less than 2.4GHz CPUs running the liquid demo just fine. I ran it on my 3.0GHz HT CPU perfectly. Check out the demo. If it works for you then don't sweat it (also try setting the priority on WM9 to realtime in task manager if there are any stuttrers).
I am looking forward to running this on my 2.0GHz HTPC.
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post #13 of 349 Old 04-09-2003, 10:30 PM
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Well the same treatment is being given to 'In the Shadow of Motown' and its 'HD' content is 576x1024... this is basically similar to PAL wide and very questionable 'HD' terminology... Better to simply say Higher than DVD !!

I have asked a couple of times what the rez of this release will be and the question has been left unanswered... Draw your own conclusions if any...

I am happy to see WMP9 move into the arena as they have the ability to steal the HD DVD market while the DVD consortium bicker about protection measures... That said without AR control in WMP9 its useless in my HT...
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post #14 of 349 Old 04-09-2003, 10:45 PM
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metallicafreak,
I have read a lot of posts on the Shadows of Motown and the T2 and it seems that you are referring to the Shadows of Motown release. It is not given the full treatment due to it being comprised of a lot of lower res material that could not benefit. The T2 is supposed to be Full 1080p.

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post #15 of 349 Old 04-09-2003, 10:48 PM
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Also due to T2 being 1080p, it will require more processing power in order to play smoothly which is where the 3.0ghz number comes in.

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post #16 of 349 Old 04-10-2003, 12:54 AM
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Is MS or Artisan quoting a 3GHz requirement, or are people just assuming that it will be 1080p and thus assuming a ~3GHz minimum?

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post #17 of 349 Old 04-10-2003, 01:31 AM
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I firmly believe people are confusing the 1080p mastering with the WMP9 'HD'... If it is 1080p I will eat crow...

There is no way on gods earth MS are going to release a title that can only be played on 3Ghz machines... This will likely be a 720p or less version...
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post #18 of 349 Old 04-10-2003, 03:47 AM
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I hope AT LEAST 720p.....

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post #19 of 349 Old 04-10-2003, 04:10 AM
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Of course so do I... However the Shadows of Motown sets a bad prescident with 1024x576 :( !!!

I am happy its moving this way for PC based playback just wary of it being a 'for the masses' solution rather than for the quality freaks...
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post #20 of 349 Old 04-10-2003, 04:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by hgodwin
metallicafreak,
I have read a lot of posts on the Shadows of Motown and the T2 and it seems that you are referring to the Shadows of Motown release. It is not given the full treatment due to it being comprised of a lot of lower res material that could not benefit. The T2 is supposed to be Full 1080p.

hgodwin
I looked back through the posts and you are right, I was confused. I agree with Phat Phreddy. It would be nuts to put out something that needs such a high powered PC to play.

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post #21 of 349 Old 04-10-2003, 05:17 AM
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A large number of the consumer HDTV's sold these days are like mine in that the highest resolution display is 1080i. But unless we have a video card that displays 1080i properly then we may be limited to 540p in that case when driven by computer.

I could easily imagine an HTPC video card with 1080i support and hardware WM9 (and MPEG-4) acceleration, but I don't have one yet. So a progressive 540p (or 544p) is the best I could take advantage of now anyway.

All that said, I'm still probably a fan of using 720p @ 24 for red laser movies since I assume I'll own the proper hardware in the time I still own the HD-DVD. And of course a bunch of you probably already have 720p displays.

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post #22 of 349 Old 04-10-2003, 05:22 AM
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It would be nuts to put out something that needs such a high powered PC to play.

Why is that? It seems to be true that Micrrosoft and Intel seem to be less friendly than they once were, but still this could be seen as something to drive the demand for more powerful systems among the masses- our software will drive the desire for your faster processors. and ultimately the whole industry benefits.

As of now, the PC industry is stagnant because people don't see the need for much faster systems. Maybe this could provide that need.

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post #23 of 349 Old 04-10-2003, 05:37 AM
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To decode WM9, I believe you need a P4 2.4 GHz processor or above.

See this article for processor rankings on video encoding. Decoding rankings should be equivalent:
http://www6.tomshardware.com/cpu/200...charts-26.html

These processors are in the mid/high range of PCs's right now. But by the time WM9 video content gathers any reasonable steam - these processors will be in the low/mid range.

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post #24 of 349 Old 04-10-2003, 06:22 AM
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From the page where you can download Step into Liquid it specifically states:

Although other system configurations may be able to playback this content, for an optimal experience we recommend at least a 2.4 GHz Intel or AMD Athlon XP 2100+ or higher processor and an AGP4x based NVIDIA or ATI video adapter card with at least 32 MB of RAM and the most recent OEM driver updates. The higher the data rate (in Mbps), the higher the resource requirement.

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post #25 of 349 Old 04-10-2003, 06:46 AM
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Haha, a 1,73 GHz Athlon XP equals a 2,4 GHz P4 :D
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post #26 of 349 Old 04-10-2003, 07:04 AM
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2.35:1 movies require less CPU for playback than 16:9. Depending on the encoding parameters, an XP2400 often is adequate for 1920X820p24 playback without dropped frames.

If this really comes out in 1080p, I think a lot of people are going to be shocked and awed. Picture quality wise, it has the potential to blow away every movie broadcast from HBO, Showtime, and OTA to date. This would be the Microsoft equivalent of throwing a rope around the neck of the MPEG2 statue.:)

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post #27 of 349 Old 04-10-2003, 07:17 AM
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I tried the Step Into Liquid trailer on my Athlon 1800+ and it mostly played fine with only a few times when it hit top 100% CPU usage, then it paused for a few frames. The trailer look fantastic at 1080p upscaling.

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post #28 of 349 Old 04-10-2003, 07:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by JerryW
Is MS or Artisan quoting a 3GHz requirement, or are people just assuming that it will be 1080p and thus assuming a ~3GHz minimum?
JerryW,
I got the 3.0ghz "suggested" number from here http://www.dvdtalk.com/forum/showthr...hreadid=284750

Someone quotes from a Video Store Magazine ad that the requirements are xp pro, 3.0ghz processor and video card with 128 megs of ram.

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post #29 of 349 Old 04-10-2003, 07:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Phat Phreddy
I firmly believe people are confusing the 1080p mastering with the WMP9 'HD'... If it is 1080p I will eat crow...

There is no way on gods earth MS are going to release a title that can only be played on 3Ghz machines... This will likely be a 720p or less version...
Phat Phreddy,
Since the package already includes a regular dvd from the new 1080p source, no one could complain if they could not play the WM9 dvd. Also MSFT could send a message about how good their technology by knocking this release out of the park.

Also if they do not do this release well, people could easily start to imply that the problem is their technology and not the need to keep resource use low. It would be untrue but first impressions still stick for a long time.

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post #30 of 349 Old 04-10-2003, 07:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by trbarry
A large number of the consumer HDTV's sold these days are like mine in that the highest resolution display is 1080i. But unless we have a video card that displays 1080i properly then we may be limited to 540p in that case when driven by computer.

I could easily imagine an HTPC video card with 1080i support and hardware WM9 (and MPEG-4) acceleration, but I don't have one yet. So a progressive 540p (or 544p) is the best I could take advantage of now anyway.

All that said, I'm still probably a fan of using 720p @ 24 for red laser movies since I assume I'll own the proper hardware in the time I still own the HD-DVD. And of course a bunch of you probably already have 720p displays.

- Tom
trubarry,
S3's deltachrome is supposed to have an hdtv encoder built in and be able to easily output 480i, 480p, 720p, 1080i and 1080p. It also will have WM9 acceleration capabilities as well. So I would assume that the recommended processor with this card should be substantially lower. The prices for it are supposed to start at under 100 dollars. Lastly it is supposed to reach the retail market by June.

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