Windows 10 Creator Update Thread - Page 2 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #31 of 145 Old 04-07-2017, 02:44 PM
 
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Originally Posted by lunnar View Post
I've updated my windows 10 to the creator update last night and I also updated my Nvidia drivers to 381.65. (both update went well)
I got a similar setup, gtx 1070 to a 4k receiver(anthem) to a 4k projector(JVC).

When I flip the HDR on in the new windows setting, my projector detect some HDR metadata and switch to HDR mode but I get a very washed out picture. Something is wrong and I can't find it yet. also in my Nvidia settings color mode reset to default, if I switch back to Nvidia settings and set YUV 4:2:0, 10 or 12bit, it still stay washed out, but after a fullscreen swtich I end up with HDR disabled in windows setting and it is back to what is was prior the the creator update. It seem like switching the color setting in the Nvidia panel simply disable the HDR mode native to windows and I loose HDR metadata(I can understand it, but since there is not an HDR switch in the Nvidia panel yet this is strange...)


prior to the update I've been using HDR with Madvr for a few month and It was working great(without the metadata so manual switching)
I've dig up a few post in differents forum for the last 48h and it seem I am not the only one with this washed out HDR state.

I am glad to know it work for you, there is hope then. One quick question, did you update your Nvidia drivers to 381.65 ?
Hi, I get washed out picture when I use MADVR in windowed mode. Make sure you are in exclusive mode.
Also it seems to only work with the nvidia default color mode. When I switch to 10 bits 4:2:2 or 4:2:0 , picture is washed out too.

Movies & TV app does hdr very well too.
Driver 381.65, yes .



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post #32 of 145 Old 04-07-2017, 03:23 PM - Thread Starter
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Looks like some updated apps were slipped into the update. There's a movie editing app and a new version of the Movies & TV app, which is very buggy. Thankfully, there's still Windows Media Player, though the quality of playback isn't as good as the M&T app is capable of providing. I can't get Settings to open from the start menu pin and had to launch it with the actual program menu shortcut. Not sure what went wrong there, but it's annoying. The Edge browser has some changes that you need to read up on and new tab features that could be useful, if we can ever get used to the layout.
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post #33 of 145 Old 04-07-2017, 04:55 PM
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So I watched some HDR youtube videos and they look fantastic. As you'd expect. But everything that isn't HDR content, which is like 99% of everything else accessible on your computer, just looks off. It's pretty sad that my $400 Xbox One S handles HDR better than my $3000 PC. The XB1S stays in SDR mode until it's sent HDR content, then it automatically switches your TV into HDR mode. Pretty smart, eh? But my Windows PC keeps my TV in HDR mode at all times even though it's not being fed HDR content. What kinda stupid BS is this???
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post #34 of 145 Old 04-08-2017, 01:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cory Gillmore View Post
So I watched some HDR youtube videos and they look fantastic. As you'd expect. But everything that isn't HDR content, which is like 99% of everything else accessible on your computer, just looks off. It's pretty sad that my $400 Xbox One S handles HDR better than my $3000 PC. The XB1S stays in SDR mode until it's sent HDR content, then it automatically switches your TV into HDR mode. Pretty smart, eh? But my Windows PC keeps my TV in HDR mode at all times even though it's not being fed HDR content. What kinda stupid BS is this???


How w did you watch YouTube in hdr? There is no vp9 support right?? Did they sneak it into edge browser?


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post #35 of 145 Old 04-08-2017, 08:01 PM
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How w did you watch YouTube in hdr? There is no vp9 support right?? Did they sneak it into edge browser?


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Hmm I don't remember, it's possible.


I watched that video there while in native HDR mode in Windows. It seemed to be working to my amateurish eyes. Sure hope it wasn't placebo haha. Give it a shot.

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post #36 of 145 Old 04-08-2017, 08:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cory Gillmore View Post
Hmm I don't remember, it's possible.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tO01J-M3g0U

I watched that video there while in native HDR mode in Windows. It seemed to be working to my amateurish eyes. Sure hope it wasn't placebo haha. Give it a shot.


Interesting... that video is definitely not playing in HDR from Windows for me, either in Edge or Chrome. I do get HDR using Movies and TV with appropriate videos though. Everything else is washed out in HDR mode.


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post #37 of 145 Old 04-08-2017, 10:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cory Gillmore View Post
Hmm I don't remember, it's possible.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tO01J-M3g0U

I watched that video there while in native HDR mode in Windows. It seemed to be working to my amateurish eyes. Sure hope it wasn't placebo haha. Give it a shot.


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Play it on chromcasr ultra - looks a lot different in real hdr


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post #38 of 145 Old 04-08-2017, 10:30 PM
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Haha that's crazy man. I dont guess I currently have a way to watch HDR Youtube. Sucks the Xbox one app doesn't support. I think my TVs app does but god I hate navigating anything to do with the TV UI on this X850D.

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post #39 of 145 Old 04-09-2017, 07:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kwhite666 View Post
Hi, I get washed out picture when I use MADVR in windowed mode. Make sure you are in exclusive mode.
Also it seems to only work with the nvidia default color mode. When I switch to 10 bits 4:2:2 or 4:2:0 , picture is washed out too.

Movies & TV app does hdr very well too.
Driver 381.65, yes .



** In your screen shot the side info panel. Where did that come from? I would like to use it too. Is that a Windows app or the TV? **

Hi I am having the same issues here, can only use HDR when Nvidia is OS default. If I override the color with Nvidia then the HDR windows setting is off.

If I keep Nvidia overrise ON and HDR Windows OFF, I tried to play Shadow Warrior with HDR and I get black screen but can here the application. If I turn Nvidia override OFF and HDR Windows on the game works in HDR again.

Not sure but I have HDR for 6 months and its always washed looking. The creators update is very dull in HDR desktop and in-game too.
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post #40 of 145 Old 04-09-2017, 07:56 AM
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Originally Posted by sjchmura View Post
Mpc and MADVR - It works if I run a script


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Hi I have seen you mention that your Nvidia is working with HDR by forcing a script.

Can you share what script you are using and referencing? Thanks
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post #41 of 145 Old 04-09-2017, 08:04 AM
 
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Originally Posted by 1wayjonny View Post
** In your screen shot the side info panel. Where did that come from? I would like to use it too. Is that a Windows app or the TV? **

Hi I am having the same issues here, can only use HDR when Nvidia is OS default. If I override the color with Nvidia then the HDR windows setting is off.

If I keep Nvidia overrise ON and HDR Windows OFF, I tried to play Shadow Warrior with HDR and I get black screen but can here the application. If I turn Nvidia override OFF and HDR Windows on the game works in HDR again.

Not sure but I have HDR for 6 months and its always washed looking. The creators update is very dull in HDR desktop and in-game too.
Hi
To get the side panel info, press ''CTRL-J'' when using MADVR (mpc, pot player....).
If you have no idea what I'm talking about, just use the Movies and TV app, HDR quality is mostly the same and MADVR is kind of complicated to set up the first time.

Last edited by kwhite666; 04-09-2017 at 08:13 AM.
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post #42 of 145 Old 04-09-2017, 08:05 AM
 
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Hi I have seen you mention that your Nvidia is working with HDR by forcing a script.

Can you share what script you are using and referencing? Thanks
You dont need the script anymore with the latest driver,
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post #43 of 145 Old 04-09-2017, 08:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Cory Gillmore View Post
Yeah I get all kinds of issues with trying to play games in windows native HDR mode. The one HDR game I have, Mass Effect Andromeda, doesn't play well anymore, and my non-HDR games have oversaturated weird color. So if I take it back to my old color settings (Chroma 444 8 bit), which I've done, I can no longer get MEA to switch into HDR mode when launching the game.
Same issue for me, I used to be able to do Chroma 444 8 bit or Chroma 420 10/12bit and enable HDR in my games and it would kick in.

Now if I do that I get a green screen. If use the Default OS in the NVCP and have Windows 10 handle the HDR it works.

I have been using HDR for 6 months with movies and they are OK little darker and washed but you see the brightness effect.

When using any PC game with HDR it works before the Creators Update and the HDR makes my desktop/application dark and washed out.

So far I am not impressed with HDR, is the darker look and washed colors supposed to look this way? I am convinced it is now, I just ran the Nvidia HDR test script demo run "hdr.bat". When switching the image from KITE to color pattern the reds and all colors are so dim.

If I use the xbox one s for Deadpool UHD Bluray it looks better then what is happening on the PC. Deadpool UHD is little darker and the colors look a little washed but no where near the dark and washed effect I get on the PC.

Overall frustrating and if anyone has any tips let me know.

I am doing HDR wrong? Even before Creators Update, my HDR looked exactly like everyone's compliant today. Before Creators Update did everyone's HDR look bright and colorful?

I do not think my HDR expectations are off, something is def wrong but please set me straight.

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post #44 of 145 Old 04-09-2017, 08:23 AM
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Originally Posted by kwhite666 View Post
You dont need the script anymore with the latest driver,
Hmm, I am having so many issues I am still interested in the scripts if you can share info but thanks for the reply.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kwhite666 View Post
Hi
To get the side panel info, press ''CTRL-J'' when using MADVR (mpc, pot player....).
If you have no idea what I'm talking about, just use the Movies and TV app, HDR quality is mostly the same and MADVR is kind of complicated to set up the first time.
Thanks!
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post #45 of 145 Old 04-09-2017, 09:09 AM
 
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Hmm, I am having so many issues I am still interested in the scripts if you can share info but thanks for the reply.



Thanks!
Well you already know the script.
it is the ''hdr.bat'' you just talked about. It forces HDR and then you can start an HDR file
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post #46 of 145 Old 04-09-2017, 09:21 AM
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Providing more feedback:

Life of Pi (HDR) Sample
  • When playing in any video player with "Windows 10 HDR Setting OFF" the video is over saturated with brightness and color.
  • When playing in most video player with "Windows 10 HDR Setting ON" everything is dark and the video in dull with brightness and color. Desktop is same dull brightness and color.
  • When playing in "Windows Movies and TV" player with "Windows 10 HDR Setting OFF" video is over saturated with brightness and color.
  • When playing in "Windows Movies and TV" player with "Windows 10 HDR Setting ON" desktop is dull on brightness and color but when playing the video is looks how it supposed to look. (YAH!)

Exodus (HDR) Sample
  • When playing in any video player with "Windows 10 HDR Setting OFF" the video is over saturated with brightness and color.
  • When playing in most video player with "Windows 10 HDR Setting ON" everything is dark and the video in dull with brightness and color. Desktop is same dull brightness and color.
  • When playing in "Windows Movies and TV" player with "Windows 10 HDR Setting OFF" video is over saturated with brightness and color.
  • When playing in "Windows Movies and TV" player with "Windows 10 HDR Setting ON" desktop is dull on brightness and color but when playing the video is looks how it supposed to look. (YAH!)

Shadow Warrior 2 Game (HDR)
  • When playing in Steam with "Windows 10 HDR Setting OFF" but "Game HDR is enabled" the video is over saturated with brightness and color.
  • When playing in Steam with "Windows 10 HDR Setting ON" but "Game HDR is enabled" the video is dull on brightness and color. Desktop is same dull brightness and color.
  • Gaming with HDR seems broken, not matter what.

Conclusion
  • It seems that when HDR mode is enabled the display is supposed to be darker and duller (normal?) but an HDR enabled video\signal brightens up the display and color when playing if all is working correct. The game or video player needs to handle the metadata correctly for this to work of the picture will washout on on brightness and color.
  • I had issues with MadVR with MPC-BE/HC playing the HDR video as it would play and look dark. The only way I got it play correctly is with "Windows Movies & TV" app.
  • I finally can see HDR working correctly and no the colors and brightness are not supposed to be dark and dull.

Visual Confirmation
  • To explain what I saw above I thought it would be useful to take a picture of "Windows HDR Setting" ON and OFF with the same two apps, displaying the same video. The results are intresting... I can only get this working with "Windows Movies & TV" application.

NOT WORKING - Windows HDR Setting OFF - Windows Movies and TV (Left) and MPC-BE (Right)
  • Notice how the Windows start bar looks normal at the bottom in regards to brightness and colors, but both video players are displaying the video wrong.


WORKING - Windows HDR Setting OFF - Windows Movies and TV (Left) and MPC-BE (Right)
  • Notice how dull the Windows start bar looks at the bottom, its dull and colors are washed out but the video is perfect!


Last edited by 1wayjonny; 04-09-2017 at 09:42 AM.
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post #47 of 145 Old 04-09-2017, 09:30 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1wayjonny View Post
Providing more feedback:

Life of Pi (HDR) Sample
  • When playing in any video player with "Windows 10 HDR Setting OFF" the video is over saturated with brightness and color.
  • When playing in most video player with "Windows 10 HDR Setting ON" everything is dark and the video in dull with brightness and color. Desktop is same dull brightness and color.
  • When playing in "Windows Movies and TV" player with "Windows 10 HDR Setting OFF" video is over saturated with brightness and color.
  • When playing in "Windows Movies and TV" player with "Windows 10 HDR Setting ON" desktop is dull on brightness and color but when playing the video is looks how it supposed to look. (YAH!)

Exodus (HDR) Sample
  • When playing in any video player with "Windows 10 HDR Setting OFF" the video is over saturated with brightness and color.
  • When playing in most video player with "Windows 10 HDR Setting ON" everything is dark and the video in dull with brightness and color. Desktop is same dull brightness and color.
  • When playing in "Windows Movies and TV" player with "Windows 10 HDR Setting OFF" video is over saturated with brightness and color.
  • When playing in "Windows Movies and TV" player with "Windows 10 HDR Setting ON" desktop is dull on brightness and color but when playing the video is looks how it supposed to look. (YAH!)

Shadow Warrior 2 Game (HDR)
  • When playing in Steam with "Windows 10 HDR Setting OFF" but "Game HDR is enabled" the video is over saturated with brightness and color.
  • When playing in Steam with "Windows 10 HDR Setting ON" but "Game HDR is enabled" the video is dull on brightness and color. Desktop is same dull brightness and color.
  • Gaming with HDR seems broken, not matter what.

Conclusion

It seems that when HDR mode is enabled the display is supposed to be darker and duller (normal?) but an HDR enabled video\signal brightens up the display and color when playing if all is working correct. The game or video player needs to handle the metadata correctly for this to work of the picture will washout on on brightness and color.

I had issues with MadVR with MPC-BE/HC playing the HDR video as it would play and look dark. The only way I got it play correctly is with "Windows Movies & TV" app.

I finally can see HDR working correctly and no the colors and brightness are not supposed to be dark and dull.
yes you got it.
Your problem with madvr is probably because you're not in ''Exclusive mode''.
I can see in your screenshot that you are in windowed mode.

Last edited by kwhite666; 04-09-2017 at 09:35 AM.
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post #48 of 145 Old 04-09-2017, 09:36 AM
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yes you got it.
Your problem with madvr is probably because you're not in ''Exclusive mode''.

Hey just updated with pictures, I tried MadVR with MPC-BE and when going fullscreen the colors get mega messed up and turn BLACK!. See below, why is this?

WTF??
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post #49 of 145 Old 04-09-2017, 09:41 AM
 
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woahh , I have no idea .
But I can see it says D3D11 exclusive (8bit)
on mine it says D3D11 exclusive (10bit)
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post #50 of 145 Old 04-09-2017, 09:46 AM
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woahh , I have no idea .
But I can see it says D3D11 exclusive (8bit)
on mine it says D3D11 exclusive (10bit)
HaHa, not sure why either but added much confusion when testing which is why I was trying in windowed mode. I think that is a separate issue all together which I will check but made testing more painful then needing.

I will check the 8 bit vs 10 bit and will try without my Yamaha receiver to see if that is messing it up. But at least I can see HDR on PC correctly with out wash out. Have not seen it in 6+ months of testing. All the money spent and HDR is a pain in the ass.

Not working when Windows HDR enabled
  • Plex
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  • Games in general
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post #51 of 145 Old 04-09-2017, 09:52 AM
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woahh , I have no idea .
But I can see it says D3D11 exclusive (8bit)
on mine it says D3D11 exclusive (10bit)

OK I can see why I am missing some options. I am using my Samsung UN65KS9800 model. How am I supposed to create a monitor device in Windows that is not generic? I see you have a ton of options where mine is missing everything. I am going through a Yamaha receiver but when the TV is plugged in direct to PC that monitor is still generic.

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post #52 of 145 Old 04-09-2017, 10:06 AM
 
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No you don't need to create a profile group in ''devices'' but it's very useful in ''scaling algorithms'' or in other tab.
For now just make sure that ''HDR '' is set to ''passthrough hdr content to the display'' and in ''properties'' that native display bitdepth is set to ''10 bit''
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post #53 of 145 Old 04-09-2017, 10:24 AM
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No you don't need to create a profile group in ''devices'' but it's very useful in ''scaling algorithms'' or in other tab.
For now just make sure that ''HDR '' is set to ''passthrough hdr content to the display'' and in ''properties'' that native display bitdepth is set to ''10 bit''
OK, Unfortunatley I do not get all those options as my Samsung UN65KS9800 shows in Windows as a generic monitor.

I was able to find the issue with the color setting, I disabled the option below and color is fine at fullscreen now. Would be great to have the other option in MadVR but looks like that only shows if you monitor is not generic =(

Even though the blackout to the picture is gone the brightness seems OK but the color are a bit over saturated. I wonder if I can get my Samsung to show up as a device instead of generic monitor. I am missing a bunch of options and the one I disabled below fixes the issue but I am not sure if it the right option.

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post #54 of 145 Old 04-09-2017, 10:30 AM
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** Update **

OK I restarted the PC and even thought my monitor is generic I can double click the device in MadVR and the drop down now shows HDR and the other options.

I chose HDR passthrough and when playing the colors were not over saturated anymore and its working like a champ.

Appreciate your help and advice! I was able to utilize 10bit instead of 8bit too!

Last edited by 1wayjonny; 04-09-2017 at 10:35 AM.
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post #55 of 145 Old 04-09-2017, 10:44 AM
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Windows 10 Creator Update Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1wayjonny View Post
HaHa, not sure why either but added much confusion when testing which is why I was trying in windowed mode. I think that is a separate issue all together which I will check but made testing more painful then needing.



I will check the 8 bit vs 10 bit and will try without my Yamaha receiver to see if that is messing it up. But at least I can see HDR on PC correctly with out wash out. Have not seen it in 6+ months of testing. All the money spent and HDR is a pain in the ass.



Not working when Windows HDR enabled
  • Plex
  • Shadow Warrior 2
  • Games in general


Ok I have re7 and shadow 2 working (Nvidia 1080). Installing mass effect from origin now

Hdr ENABLED
Nvidia default

Boom they work

Forcing Nvidia to 4:2:2 breaks it

Had anyone tried a 48hz custkm.screeb for.4:4:4 10bit? If my math is right it should work. 50hz looks fine (been using with my 1080 since it can almost always hit 50hz in most games vs 60)

Can't get the timing right for 48hz! 30hz works of course (12 bit 4:4:4 4k)


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post #56 of 145 Old 04-09-2017, 11:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sjchmura View Post
Ok I have re7 and shadow 2 working (Nvidia 1080). Installing mass effect from origin now

Hdr ENABLED
Nvidia default

Boom they work

Forcing Nvidia to 4:2:2 breaks it

Had anyone tried a 48hz custkm.screeb for.4:4:4 10bit? If my math is right it should work. 50hz looks fine (been using with my 1080 since it can almost always hit 50hz in most games vs 60)

Can't get the timing right for 48hz! 30hz works of course (12 bit 4:4:4 4k)


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Hi!

I can get it working with Shadow Warrior 2 but the colors are washed out really bad. Using a Nvidia setting breaks it but if you leave on Windows HDR only it works techinically but this is not how the colors or brightness is supposed to look.

After now see HDR work on the PC I can for sure say the game is not working right in terms of color. I might buy MEA to check another game as Shadow Warrior 2 is the only HDR game I have and the colors and brightness are not what they should be.

Are your colors OK? When starting Shadow Warrior 2 all reds look brownish. =(
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post #57 of 145 Old 04-09-2017, 11:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1wayjonny View Post
Hi!



I can get it working with Shadow Warrior 2 but the colors are washed out really bad. Using a Nvidia setting breaks it but if you leave on Windows HDR only it works techinically but this is not how the colors or brightness is supposed to look.



After now see HDR work on the PC I can for sure say the game is not working right in terms of color. I might buy MEA to check another game as Shadow Warrior 2 is the only HDR game I have and the colors and brightness are not what they should be.



Are your colors OK? When starting Shadow Warrior 2 all reds look brownish. =(


Let me check again. For sure re7 is fine. What is odd is I had to slightly increase my in game calibration. Now on the z9 I can push the game.to 1500 without clipping

I wonder if windows has some.tone mapping it is doing - before I had it at 1000


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post #58 of 145 Old 04-09-2017, 11:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1wayjonny View Post
Hi!



I can get it working with Shadow Warrior 2 but the colors are washed out really bad. Using a Nvidia setting breaks it but if you leave on Windows HDR only it works techinically but this is not how the colors or brightness is supposed to look.



After now see HDR work on the PC I can for sure say the game is not working right in terms of color. I might buy MEA to check another game as Shadow Warrior 2 is the only HDR game I have and the colors and brightness are not what they should be.



Are your colors OK? When starting Shadow Warrior 2 all reds look brownish. =(


I can't get MEA to work. I can't be the only one

You know hdr just "works"
On Xbox and ps4 pro. You would think with Nvidia toughing it the 4 hdr games would work


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post #59 of 145 Old 04-09-2017, 01:52 PM
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Does anyone have the Windows desktop working without it being washed out while HDR is enabled?


If HDR is off in Windows, is Nvidia supposed to auto enable it when an HDR title is selected?

Last edited by brazen1; 04-09-2017 at 01:55 PM.
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post #60 of 145 Old 04-09-2017, 01:58 PM
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Originally Posted by brazen1 View Post
Does anyone have the Windows desktop working without it being washed out while HDR is enabled?


If HDR is off in Windows, is Nvidia supposed to auto enable it when an HDR title is selected?


It's so broken i give up. Re7 works in hdr with hdr on or off. Mass effect does not work at all


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