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post #31 of 54 Old 04-27-2001, 09:55 PM
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Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by MikeM:
Stephen:

Great stuff. You're a prince among men. I still would love fo ryou and/or Godfrey Chang to come visit me just 5 minutes down the road from your office to get a first hand look at how your Radeon products looks firing through a Sony G90 projector. It will open up new vistas for you, believe me. Thanks again.
</font>
i'd buy the beer for that if i lived in toronto. the more people at ati we can infect the better http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif

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post #32 of 54 Old 05-01-2001, 06:08 AM
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Stephen,

The solution we'd be happiest with would be to move the overlay video controls out of the DVD player and into the driver. Right now in Display Properties we can set the brightness and contrast of the desktop - we just need another section there for the overlay. This way the video controls could be applied globally to any application which uses the overlay, and I have a hunch it would solve the creep problem too.

The GeForce card has a slick implementation of this where the overlay video controls are applied globally to all applications, and can be saved in named profiles to quickly switch between settings.

Cheers,
Dave.
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post #33 of 54 Old 05-01-2001, 07:13 AM
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I second the above. It seems that a manual overlay adjustment (refreshing) each time I view a full screen DVD in 1080i, is not only awkward, but sometims cause lockup, other times fail to pass the DVD protection code. Asking the wife or other casual viewers to do this while I am not around is impossible. Even when I am present, manual refreshing sometims fails on me, this happens both on ATI player and PowerDVD. So please fix this overlay timing issue and make a Radeon based PC a true user friendly box.
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post #34 of 54 Old 05-01-2001, 08:17 AM
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Not only should the color controls be placed in the driver tab, but they should also have numeric values assigned to them. The present configuration of the overlay controls are simply unacceptable, especially for a company that touts its' video card as a multimedia solution.

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post #35 of 54 Old 05-01-2001, 10:00 AM
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stephen has a point that it would be nice to have it in both places. especially if it can be controlled using that cool remote control dll he gave us so that we don't have to disturb other viewers with a dialog box. just a gamma + and gamma - message will do nicely.

maybe violent agreement is a hoosier thing. we all have our geographic quirks, heh? http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif

greg

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post #36 of 54 Old 05-01-2001, 10:14 AM
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Good points. You're right.. ideally all apps which use the overlay should have their own video controls. But having them also in the desktop is a good fall-back for any apps that don't.

As to complaining.. we'll complain to anyone who'll listen. InterVideo didn't last very long on this forum. http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif

Best,
Dave.
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post #37 of 54 Old 05-01-2001, 11:46 AM
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Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Stephen Orr:
...You guys complain at us for not supporting custom DVD aspect ratio (which is something we need to address) so why not complain to InterVideo for not supporting colour controls in their application. ...</font>

Because you listen and they DON'T!!!!!!

Now get me that new MMC version 5 so I can get an ATI player that will work on my system!!!!

...thanks for paying attention.



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post #38 of 54 Old 05-01-2001, 12:14 PM - Thread Starter
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This sounds like a dis-incentive to listening !-)

But really - a lot of stuff has been proposed on this thread, and indeed on this forum, can't promise I caught it all, but hopefully I got the big things and we are chewing on them.

This stuff takes time and is being mixed into a pile of other things like OEM requests, so please be patient, it will come, just not as fast as you guys are hoping for.


The problem with success is customers. I could get a lot more work done if it weren't for customers. Sigh http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif
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post #39 of 54 Old 05-01-2001, 12:23 PM
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Quote:
We have reproduced the Radeon issue and understand why the slider creeps, currently we are trying to figure out the best solution for it.

A big thanks to the detailed description here as it made analysis on our end simple, and yes, we are thinking about how to release a fix once we have one, but I can't comment on what we are thinking or when. Usual thing.


Could you please share a little bit of your discovery with us? Is this issue a result of:

A. The ATI DVD player 4.1
B. The ATI Radeon driver set
C. DirectX or some part thereof
D. Other ______________________
It would be great for those of us who are fighting this issue on a daily basis to at least know which of the above components is causing the problem.

Vern Dias


[This message has been edited by Vern Dias (edited 05-01-2001).]
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post #40 of 54 Old 05-01-2001, 12:48 PM - Thread Starter
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Software is about integration, so the answer is all of the above. At the lowest level the problem is (predictably) caused by a round-off error and a lack of synchronization mapping from user space to DirectX space to HW space and back again. This is coupled by an attempt to keep the player, driver and control panel in sync with each other in an environment that lacks a built in notification scheme to synchronize them (at least for overlay brightness).

A simple solution is to let the player control its own values and ignore the desktop. A longer term (better integrated solution) is more complex.

The complexity goes up when you realize that the Rage128 has different controls than the Radeon and one set of software is supposed to support both. The final complexities come in the due diligence required to post software to the Web which is supposed to work on ALL of the 100 or so graphics board configurations that ATI has shipped with DVD support.

More specific than this I will not get....
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post #41 of 54 Old 05-01-2001, 09:18 PM
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Just want to Chime in on what everyone else is saying suppose you don't use the ATI DVD player but another one or you just use it for gaming should you not be able to adjust the overlays that was not a smart implementation of the overlays the Geforce is much more logical with the overlay ajustments in the card menu. Are you listing Stephen. Can you help us PLEASE!!! http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

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[This message has been edited by kjohn (edited 05-01-2001).]

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post #42 of 54 Old 05-01-2001, 09:26 PM
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i am in violent agreement. the challenge may be organizational. stephen has control over mmc but probably has to get another group to do something in the drivers. sometimes it is easier in software development to add functionality with resources that you control rather than with some shared resource even if it is not the best way. i suspect the driver developers are more focused on issues that they are getting beat up on by the gamers.

greg

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post #43 of 54 Old 05-01-2001, 09:52 PM - Thread Starter
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Yes, we hear.

I don't 100% agree with you however (wait - don't flame) I think that there is a place for colour controls in the player AND in the desktop, so long as they don't step on each other.

In the player you may want different colour control settings (for example) on a per-disc basis, say to correct for something authored a little dark (or light, or green, or whatever). There is also different "kinds" of video with differnet "white points" and "black points" so, for example a DVD player may need a slightly different Gamma value to an ATSC DTV decoder.

From this perspective control in the application is a GOOD thing. I also agree that control of the system default settings has value. Your comments have been forwarded internally and I expect we will act on them (as usual no promises).

Now, an aside ---

You guys complain at us for not supporting custom DVD aspect ratio (which is something we need to address) so why not complain to InterVideo for not supporting colour controls in their application. Wouldn't it be easier to pull up a control page while watching DVD full screen to make the adjustments rather than going back to a desktop control panel? Just a thought, after all Colour Controls are supportted in DirectX!

and a final though to indygreg .... what is "violent agreement"? -- not a double negative, but perhaps a negated positive? Wierd :-)
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post #44 of 54 Old 05-02-2001, 04:28 AM
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Last night I deleted the ATI DVD player. Yes, the picture is better than the WINDVD,but to me audio is as important as video for the hteater experienmce, and WINDVD gives me in computer DD and DTS decoding with my M-Audio 1010 and sounds superb. So please ATI, work on the audio side too. Bill
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post #45 of 54 Old 05-02-2001, 10:09 AM
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I would like to add my support for ATI and Stephen Orr here too. I am impressed that a large manufacturer pays this much attention to what must be (let's be realistic now) a relatively tiny part of their overall market. I have been a long time ATI fan back since the first All-In-Wonder and with the attention that they are paying to this forum I'll be a supporter in the foreseeable future as well.

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post #46 of 54 Old 05-02-2001, 11:49 AM
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Stephen first of all thanks for all suport!

And now one question.
As you probebly know Ve cards don´t work as all the other Radeon card regarding costum reselution(costum reselution on all radeon cards acsept the Ve card).
Why is that?
Do you have any solution to that problem?(perhaps you can´t call it a problem since the card is not sold with any garanti of CR, but would be very nice to have CR on the Ve card also)

Regards
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post #47 of 54 Old 05-02-2001, 12:08 PM
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Steven,

I don't want to complain here since i do appreciate your efforts as well as your valuable time. But i uninstalled the MMC 4.1 firstly because i could not get a category 4 type card to save in the registry. Second, the instability of the ATI player and thirdly there are simply too many bugs. Surely with the ATI player and an ATI Radeon (both from the same manufacturer)i would expect the two to intertwine seamlessly but this just simply isen't the case. I have to say that for now until MOST of the ATI issues are resolved i am sticking with PowerDVD due to this players good performance, DD AND DTS and most importantly it's stability. PowerDVD just never locks up, period. Thanks for listening Steven. I am happy with my Radeon LE though, but the ATI player needs ample improvement before i take another shot at it, i believe most would wholeheartedly agree.

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post #48 of 54 Old 05-02-2001, 09:09 PM
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Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">This sounds like a dis-incentive to listening !-)
</font>
Stephen, I agree. I'm suprised your still around. ATI has made good on its promises and still they bitch. I'm not saying everything with the Radeon/DVD4.1 is perfect or that issues should not be brought up, but the card has come along way thanks to you, ATI, and courteous members of this forum and I will give ATI the benifit of the doubt when you say that existing problems will be solved. Until then, I will continue to enjoy using my Radeon with its superb picture with DVD4.1

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post #49 of 54 Old 05-03-2001, 08:34 AM - Thread Starter
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Patrik,

Can you be more specific. As far as I know the Radeon VE uses the exact same driver as the Radeon and as such the custom T&R utilty should work.

Can you give us some specifics? Is anyone else having a problem with the VE? Are you sure it is a VE and not an SE (not that this should matter either...)

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post #50 of 54 Old 05-03-2001, 12:14 PM
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I have 1080i on my VE primary display. According to Ashley Saldanha, 1080i is not a custom resolution. It suffers from overscan, makes it impossible to use my RPTV for desktop tasks. I set my secondary display at 800x600, migrated most programs to the secondary, but some programs will not stick to the extended desktop on the second monitor. I could not use 1024x768 on the secondary VE output, at least it does not display on my secondary PC monitor.

So for now the RPTV is used for DVD full screen only, overscan is tolerable for this purpose, 17" is for regular computing in 800x600.

I also removed ATI DVD player, and decided to use PowerDVD for now for stability. I don't find any difference in 1080i picture quality, whether ATI or PowerDVD, on my 53" RPTV.

Gladiator was every bit HDTV like thanks to Radeon 1080i resolution.

PowerDVD also does not require overlay refresh in full screen, a big help on WAF.

[This message has been edited by jacmyoung (edited 05-03-2001).]
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post #51 of 54 Old 05-03-2001, 09:17 PM
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Stephen, all of us are having problems with custom T&R's and the VE card. I ended up exchanging my VE for a LE. See Ashley's comments in these threads:

Radeon VE won't do custom resolutions?
New Radeon drivers - Anyone tried them

Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Ashley Saldanha:
I'm afraid you won't get any custom, user-defined resolutions to work with the VE at all. As for the LE and retail VIV0 cards, the last driver that supported custom resolutions was 7093 - all subsequent releases are broken.

(All the drivers do support a handful of additional OEM fixed resolutions but not user-defined resolutions.)</font>
Cheers,
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post #52 of 54 Old 05-04-2001, 02:36 AM
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Something wrong with my dsl so couldn´t go online (still something wrong, had to go to the libery to post this).
Stephen, What Dave was posting was exactly what I mean.


Regard
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post #53 of 54 Old 05-04-2001, 04:45 AM - Thread Starter
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Okay,

From our side - it is supposed to work. So obviously we need to look at it. If I hear more back (aka workarounds) I will post them.
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post #54 of 54 Old 05-05-2001, 07:40 AM
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Thanks Stephen, you are admirable!

MVH
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