Madvr HDR Passthrough isn't working. - Page 2 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #31 of 164 Old 07-02-2017, 08:03 AM
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Can anyone point me to the full madvr hdr passthrough settings? a link please - thanks!

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post #32 of 164 Old 07-02-2017, 08:05 AM
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HDR and advanced color ON with FSE OFF = Blackscreen. Close = Return to desktop.
HDR and advanced color ON and FSE On = Plays but no HDR mode. Close = Return to desktop.
Latest driver
Best to let HDR and advanced color switch dynamic windowed 8bit for now.
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post #33 of 164 Old 07-02-2017, 08:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steevo123 View Post
Can anyone point me to the full madvr hdr passthrough settings? a link please - thanks!


PC levels 0-255
Bitdepth 10 bit or higher
Already calibrated (if it is)
BT.2020
Passthrough HDR
In general settings check everything except - 'present a frame for every VSync' and 'enable auto fullscreen exclusive' (for now). Uncheck both of those.
Uncheck everything in 'trade quality for performance'.
YMMV.
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post #34 of 164 Old 07-02-2017, 09:04 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brazen1 View Post
HDR and advanced color ON with FSE OFF = Blackscreen. Close = Return to desktop.
HDR and advanced color ON and FSE On = Plays but no HDR mode. Close = Return to desktop.
Latest driver
Best to let HDR and advanced color switch dynamic windowed 8bit for now.
Something is wrong with latest driver (384.76) . Desktop looks very dark and HDR is not displayed correctly in madvr (when win10 hdr slider is on).

Version 382.53 is working well.
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post #35 of 164 Old 07-02-2017, 09:23 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
FSE not working seems strange. Can you guys try an older driver? E.g. 376.33? Does FSE work then?

You should get no banding with 8bit output, thanks to madVR dithering. However, 8bit output will have slightly higher dithering noise floor than 10bit.
But I'm getting banding.
what dithering option should i use to eliminate this:



Last edited by kwhite666; 07-02-2017 at 09:30 AM.
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post #36 of 164 Old 07-02-2017, 09:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brazen1 View Post
PC levels 0-255
Bitdepth 10 bit or higher
Already calibrated (if it is)
BT.2020
Passthrough HDR
In general settings check everything except - 'present a frame for every VSync' and 'enable auto fullscreen exclusive' (for now). Uncheck both of those.
Uncheck everything in 'trade quality for performance'.
YMMV.
Thanks. But with those settings file plays but does not set off hdr (lg tv) Any additional setup?

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post #37 of 164 Old 07-02-2017, 09:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kwhite666 View Post
Something is wrong with latest driver (384.76) . Desktop looks very dark and HDR is not displayed correctly in madvr (when win10 hdr slider is on).

Version 382.53 is working well.


384.76 ok here. No different than 382.53 in the past. Your GPU is newer than mine too? Disregard black screen issue. I've noticed for a while now, there must be residual registry entries when exiting HDR mode. Back and forth from SDR to HDR and so on. Different driver installs also adding to the registry residuals. The only way to clean up the registry so it goes back to default is to reboot. Tests prior to the reboot result in different outcomes than the same tests after the reboot. Gets pretty confusing after a while.


I don't have a dark desktop and MPCBE/madVR FSE OFF working perfect to switch HDR advanced color On and OFF dynamically but only 8bit with no banding using Samsung and 384.76 driver. Staying with this now and happy.
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post #38 of 164 Old 07-02-2017, 09:48 AM
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Originally Posted by steevo123 View Post
Thanks. But with those settings file plays but does not set off hdr (lg tv) Any additional setup?

Stupid question but you are using Nvidia HDR capable GPU with W10 correct?
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post #39 of 164 Old 07-02-2017, 09:59 AM
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But I'm getting banding.
what dithering option should i use to eliminate this:




Ordered dithering.
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post #40 of 164 Old 07-02-2017, 10:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brazen1 View Post
Stupid question but you are using Nvidia HDR capable GPU with W10 correct?
not a stupid question. gtx 960. might not be capable.

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post #41 of 164 Old 07-02-2017, 10:10 AM
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Originally Posted by steevo123 View Post
not a stupid question. gtx 960. might not be capable.


It is. That's what I'm using. Have you ever had HDR working at all?

Last edited by brazen1; 07-02-2017 at 10:16 AM.
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post #42 of 164 Old 07-02-2017, 10:35 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brazen1 View Post
384.76 ok here. No different than 382.53 in the past. Your GPU is newer than mine too? Disregard black screen issue. I've noticed for a while now, there must be residual registry entries when exiting HDR mode. Back and forth from SDR to HDR and so on. Different driver installs also adding to the registry residuals. The only way to clean up the registry so it goes back to default is to reboot. Tests prior to the reboot result in different outcomes than the same tests after the reboot. Gets pretty confusing after a while.

I don't have a dark desktop and MPCBE/madVR FSE OFF working perfect to switch HDR advanced color On and OFF dynamically but only 8bit with no banding using Samsung and 384.76 driver. Staying with this now and happy.

I did a complete reboot after reinstalling the driver (always do) and the result is the same.
I guess i have more digging to do since it's working on your end.

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Originally Posted by brazen1 View Post
Ordered dithering.
that's what i'm using in both madvr and lavfilter

Last edited by kwhite666; 07-02-2017 at 10:38 AM.
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post #43 of 164 Old 07-02-2017, 10:38 AM
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Originally Posted by brazen1 View Post
It is. That's what I'm using. Have you ever had HDR working at all?
Not through pc. Through internal apps on the tv that set off hdr. Im suprised theres no madvr hdr settings link. screenshots, etc.

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post #44 of 164 Old 07-02-2017, 11:10 AM
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Originally Posted by steevo123 View Post
Not through pc. Through internal apps on the tv that set off hdr. Im suprised theres no madvr hdr settings link. screenshots, etc.


Turn on HDR in your TV for the HDMI port the PC is connected to. If you have an AVR either check it will pass through HDR or bypass the video direct to TV with an additional HDMI cable. (Eliminate it until you get everything else working if need be)


You didn't answer if you are using W10 CU?


Did you adjust MPC to use madVR and Lavfilters?


Too much to cover here.
I will be making a guide pretty soon.


Always best you post what you have and what you've done to give folks ammo to help you. We can't guess.
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post #45 of 164 Old 07-02-2017, 01:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brazen1 View Post
378.92 driver with FSE on goes into HDR mode but does not switch back to SDR when finished for me. It remains stuck in HDR mode.
Works for me!

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Originally Posted by kwhite666 View Post
I'm getting a blackscreen with the win10 hdr slider on + windowed mode. Screen stays black even when I close MPC-BE. The only way to get the image back, is by switching to FSE.

Only FSE is working with the win10 hdr slider on.
Why would you want to switch the HDR slider on? It's bad to do that. Leave it off, then madVR can dynamically switch on HDR when you play HDR videos. That only works with an Nvidia GPU, though.

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Originally Posted by brazen1 View Post
HDR and advanced color ON
Why would you want to switch the HDR slider on? DON'T (if you have an Nvidia GPU).

Quote:
Originally Posted by kwhite666 View Post
But I'm getting banding.
Did you turn dithering off in the madVR settings? Is your GPU set to RGB? TV or PC output levels?
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post #46 of 164 Old 07-02-2017, 01:23 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post

Why would you want to switch the HDR slider on? It's bad to do that. Leave it off, then madVR can dynamically switch on HDR when you play HDR videos. That only works with an Nvidia GPU, though.

Did you turn dithering off in the madVR settings? Is your GPU set to RGB? TV or PC output levels?
Because HDR slider on + FSE is the only way i get HDR working without the banding shown in my previous picture.

Slider off + windowed = HDR with banding
Slider off + FSE = not working
Slider on + windowed = blackscreen
Slider on + FSE = HDR working perfectly without any banding ( like shown in the previous picture.)

Madvr and lavfilters are set to Ordered dithering.
Madvr and lavfilters are set to pc output level
GPU is set to YCbCr 4:2:0 12bit limited

Last edited by kwhite666; 07-02-2017 at 01:33 PM.
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post #47 of 164 Old 07-02-2017, 02:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kwhite666 View Post
Madvr and lavfilters are set to Ordered dithering.
Madvr and lavfilters are set to pc output level
GPU is set to YCbCr 4:2:0 12bit limited
These settings are not good and probably responsible for the banding. Set LAV to "Untouched (as input)" which is also the default setting. Set the GPU to RGB with 0-255 (PC levels). Then in madVR either pick PC or TV output levels, depending on what your TV needs/wants.

Also, are you using DXVA native or copyback? If your PC can do it, DXVA copyback is the better option (for now).
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post #48 of 164 Old 07-02-2017, 02:43 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
These settings are not good and probably responsible for the banding. Set LAV to "Untouched (as input)" which is also the default setting. Set the GPU to RGB with 0-255 (PC levels). Then in madVR either pick PC or TV output levels, depending on what your TV needs/wants.

Also, are you using DXVA native or copyback? If your PC can do it, DXVA copyback is the better option (for now).
Fantastic, changing my gpu to RGB fixed my banding issue in windowed mode. THANK YOU
I made the change in lavfilters too.

I'm using DXVA CB

Last edited by kwhite666; 07-02-2017 at 02:58 PM.
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post #49 of 164 Old 07-02-2017, 02:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brazen1 View Post
Turn on HDR in your TV for the HDMI port the PC is connected to. If you have an AVR either check it will pass through HDR or bypass the video direct to TV with an additional HDMI cable. (Eliminate it until you get everything else working if need be)


You didn't answer if you are using W10 CU?


Did you adjust MPC to use madVR and Lavfilters?


Too much to cover here.
I will be making a guide pretty soon.


Always best you post what you have and what you've done to give folks ammo to help you. We can't guess.
with my lg oled you cant 'turn on' hdr. it goes into hdr mode when it gets the signal.
Using w10 cu. Mpc using madvr and lav.
All check but no go.
Using mpc 64 bit. Is that correct?

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post #50 of 164 Old 07-02-2017, 05:33 PM
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Just realized, with FSE OFF (so HDR works), 3D MVC frame packed will not render. Bummer
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post #51 of 164 Old 07-02-2017, 10:03 PM
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This thread has been a wealth of knowledge - was about to start another thread but thought posting here would be better as Madshi is active here
To reduce thread-crapping I have uploaded the settings and OSD screenshots to http://imgur.com/a/pZbUG. The problem for me has been that HDR never worked (GTX 1050 Ti, i5-6500, LG E6 via a receiver or direct) for both mpc-hc/be with madVR/LAV and Shadow Warrior 2. Windows doesn't even show me the "HDR and advanced color" option but that might not be an issue as many others are getting HDR even with that setting off.

Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
These settings are not good and probably responsible for the banding. Set LAV to "Untouched (as input)" which is also the default setting. Set the GPU to RGB with 0-255 (PC levels). Then in madVR either pick PC or TV output levels, depending on what your TV needs/wants.

Also, are you using DXVA native or copyback? If your PC can do it, DXVA copyback is the better option (for now).
I uploaded few more screenshots at the bottom of http://imgur.com/a/pZbUG after changing to FSE disabled and RGB/Full (bit depth changed to 8-bit with 12-bit option no more available). The video plays so well on the TV from a USB drive but from W10Pro it's probably worse than average bluray.

So far, I haven't rolled back the driver (still using the latest, will download 376 tomorrow). Thanks for any other pointers.
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post #52 of 164 Old 07-03-2017, 12:01 AM
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Just realized, with FSE OFF (so HDR works), 3D MVC frame packed will not render. Bummer
Then why don't you use a driver between 376.xx and 380.xx and enable FSE mode, as I suggested before? That said, last time I checked, 3D worked fine for me in windowed mode.

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The problem for me has been that HDR never worked (GTX 1050 Ti, i5-6500, LG E6 via a receiver or direct) for both mpc-hc/be with madVR/LAV and Shadow Warrior 2. Windows doesn't even show me the "HDR and advanced color" option but that might not be an issue as many others are getting HDR even with that setting off.
Also 12bit seems to be missing in the Nvidia GPU control panel, according to your screenshots?

It seems to me that your TV doesn't report the capability to do HDR and 12bit to the PC, for some reason. This could have various reasons: Maybe some device in between PC and TV (e.g. receiver) doesn't support HDR and 12bit and thus swallows that information. Or maybe you've set the HDMI port to "PC" mode and maybe in that mode the TV doesn't support HDR and 12bit? Or maybe some HDMI ports support HDR and 12bit and others don't? Or maybe you need to enable HDR and 12bit somewhere in the TV setup?
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post #53 of 164 Old 07-03-2017, 08:35 AM
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Originally Posted by brazen1 Just realized, with FSE OFF (so HDR works), 3D MVC frame packed will not render. Bummer
Then why don't you use a driver between 376.xx and 380.xx and enable FSE mode, as I suggested before? That said, last time I checked, 3D worked fine for me in windowed mode.


378.92 is the driver I've tried many times. I used it in the past also. Everything worked well (then). Of course the HDR and advanced color setting switch was not implemented yet and still isn't to this day using that driver. But, everything worked well including 3D, HDR with PowerDVD. PDVD was the only player that rendered HDR without manually having to switch settings. Along came the newer drivers. Now the HDR and advanced color setting was/is implemented and HAD/HAS to be enabled for HDR playback for any and all capable players incl. MPC with madVR. You just updated madVR to dynamically switch it for us which is a godsend. But, FSE must be off. No problem except, that kills 3D MVC. So, you say roll back the driver and leave FSE enabled. No problem except we're using a stone age driver now but we can get over that if all works and get by until something better comes in the future. We lose some audio enhancements but so what? Why mess with a good thing? Because it isn't working here and I wish it was.


A few things come into play. Users want options. MPC is main movie, no menu but circumvents DRM. PDVD is menu but with DRM. DRM with PDVD can be fixed at a price. Those that want free options with limitations are bound to MPC/madVR. Some want 3D. Some don't. Some want HDR. Some don't. Some want menus, some don't. Some want it all. That's me. I'm at the point I can forego menus, one stop shop using MPC/madVR, have 3D MVC, HDR, SDR, etc., but most importantly, have everything automated so users don't have to mess around after setting up software one time and one time only. From there on out it's simply click on a title (any title, any format, etc) and sit back and enjoy. YOU are completing that mission. There is only one dilemma now.


As I stated a few posts ago, using the new madVR release, every format works perfectly up until I play HDR. Windows switches into native HDR mode and playback is perfect. Using newer Nvidia drivers, when playback is stopped, HDR mode releases and all is well. Using older drivers (pre 380.xx) HDR does not release. Windows is permanently stuck in HDR mode.


I have played many titles and all is well. The 1st time I play HDR, it remains in HDR. I can attempt to play SDR, 3D, different players, etc. (attempting to release HDR mode) the panel flickers through it's modes but still HDR remains. I can turn the panel off and on. I can change color formats, output depths, dynamic range, etc in the driver control panel, still HDR remains engaged. I can unplug the display from the wall and it's still engaged. I can log out and it's still engaged. However, I can reboot and it comes out of HDR mode but, the color space is expanded and saturated. ALL this tells me there is a residual registry setting that never released to go back to default once HDR was initiated via madVR. The only way I can fix this is to uninstall and reinstall GPU drivers. Btw, exactly which driver version worked for you?


This isn't a complaint. This is ammo to help you help me/us and I will supply any other feedback or testing you require. I fear you will inform me your test bed doesn't exhibit this behavior. If that's the case, I will accept I have a hardware/software clash causing this on my end (I will never figure out). Hopefully others will chime in their experiences to deny or confirm. Thanks for sticking with us on this. You are much appreciated.
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post #54 of 164 Old 07-03-2017, 08:48 AM
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For me, I've tested both 376.33 and 378.92 and they both work perfectly for me, including FSE, and including turning HDR off. I don't know why it doesn't work for you. Have you tried 376.33? Have you tried totally cleaning the Nvidia driver installation (I think there are some helper tools for that? not sure)? If all else fails, you could try reinstalling the OS. Not much fun, but it might help.

Of course we all want the latest drivers to work, and hopefully they might soon. As I said, Nvidia is aware of the problem, so chances are good that it will be fixed soon.
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post #55 of 164 Old 07-03-2017, 09:14 AM
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I know you made them aware. I have faith they'll address it and I'll hang tight.
Funny thing I just tried. Cleaned registry with ccleaner. Played HDR with madVR. Playback perfect. Stuck in HDR after playback (expected). Immediately played HDR in PDVD. Playback was perfect. Came out of HDR when finished. Maybe nVidia will have an early driver release this round. Crossing my fingers. Thanks for the feedback.
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post #56 of 164 Old 07-03-2017, 09:44 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
For me, I've tested both 376.33 and 378.92 and they both work perfectly for me, including FSE, and including turning HDR off. I don't know why it doesn't work for you. Have you tried 376.33? Have you tried totally cleaning the Nvidia driver installation (I think there are some helper tools for that? not sure)? If all else fails, you could try reinstalling the OS. Not much fun, but it might help.

Of course we all want the latest drivers to work, and hopefully they might soon. As I said, Nvidia is aware of the problem, so chances are good that it will be fixed soon.
hello Madshi, and thank you again for all the greatly valuable information that you have posted on this thread.

I understand that everything I asked for to begin with is now possible at the condition of either disabling FSE, or rerolling to an older Nvidia driver.

I would like you to explain to me why I need and IF i need the FSE, what it does exaclty, so that I don't go through the bother of installing old GPU drivers to make it work with HDR if I don't really need or want it.

My specs are FX8320 16Go (watercooling) and GTX970 4Go, 2SSDs and a 4K HDR Samsung KS8000 TV.
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post #57 of 164 Old 07-03-2017, 09:50 AM
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FSE mode is a more direct mode, which bypasses some of the OS processing, which can result in a more stable and reliable playback. Meaning a full movie's worth of playback without any frame drops or presentation glitches. If you're lucky, you might get the same stability without FSE mode. If you do, then it's probably not a big loss to disable FSE mode, but not everyone is so lucky.

Another advantage of FSE mode is the ability to output 10bit to the display. However, madVR has high quality dither algorithms, so outputting 8bit does not come with any banding problems. Dithering means noise, though, so at 8bit the noise floor is slightly higher than at 10bit. That said, many TVs which claim to support 10bit+, internally only do 8bit, and achieve the missing bits by internally dithering. So whether 10bit output to the display actually looks better or not is something only your eyes can judge. With some TVs it might actually look better to let madVR output 8bit. But with really good TVs outputting 10bit should come with the (small) image quality advantage of having a slightly lower noise floor.

IMHO the key difference is whether you get perfectly smooth playback or not, without any frame drops. If your PC can do that without FSE mode, then I'd suggest to simply disable FSE mode for now, until new drivers fix the problem.
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post #58 of 164 Old 07-03-2017, 09:56 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
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FSE mode is a more direct mode, which bypasses some of the OS processing, which can result in a more stable and reliable playback. Meaning a full movie's worth of playback without any frame drops or presentation glitches. If you're lucky, you might get the same stability without FSE mode. If you do, then it's probably not a big loss to disable FSE mode, but not everyone is so lucky.

Another advantage of FSE mode is the ability to output 10bit to the display. However, madVR has high quality dither algorithms, so outputting 8bit does not come with any banding problems. Dithering means noise, though, so at 8bit the noise floor is slightly higher than at 10bit. That said, many TVs which claim to support 10bit+, internally only do 8bit, and achieve the missing bits by internally dithering. So whether 10bit output to the display actually looks better or not is something only your eyes can judge. With some TVs it might actually look better to let madVR output 8bit. But with really good TVs outputting 10bit should come with the (small) image quality advantage of having a slightly lower noise floor.

IMHO the key difference is whether you get perfectly smooth playback or not, without any frame drops. If your PC can do that without FSE mode, then I'd suggest to simply disable FSE mode for now, until new drivers fix the problem.
So how is HDR possible without 10bit output in non-FSE mode ?
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post #59 of 164 Old 07-03-2017, 10:01 AM
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HDR doesn't require 10bit. Dithering down to 8bit works extremely well. BUT, dithering only works this well within lossless processing chains. For lossy encoding it's always much better to use a high bitdepth. So HDR content should definitely be encoded at 10bit, or ideally even 12bit or 16bit. But for lossless transport from the source device to the TV via HDMI 8bit is just fine, as long as you use a high quality dithering algorithm. Without dithering, 8bit would definitely not be good enough, though.
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post #60 of 164 Old 07-03-2017, 10:10 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
HDR doesn't require 10bit. Dithering down to 8bit works extremely well. BUT, dithering only works this well within lossless processing chains. For lossy encoding it's always much better to use a high bitdepth. So HDR content should definitely be encoded at 10bit, or ideally even 12bit or 16bit. But for lossless transport from the source device to the TV via HDMI 8bit is just fine, as long as you use a high quality dithering algorithm. Without dithering, 8bit would definitely not be good enough, though.
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