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post #1 of 17 Old 08-05-2017, 01:39 PM - Thread Starter
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Need video card for 4k TV

I have a Gigabyte motherboard GA-Z87-HD3 LGA1150 socket with an Intel Core i5 4670K 3.4GHz and 24GB memory.
Currently have a GIGABYTE GV-N75TOC-2GI G-SYNC (GTX 750 TI 2GB video card).

I want to connect it to an LG OLED65E7 TV. From what I've been reading the only way the GTX 750 ti can output 4K@60Hz is by using both HDMI 1.4a ports on the card. I assume the TV won't allow 2 HDMI ports to work at the same time. I run windows media center on win7 on FIOS with hdhomerun Prime, plus kodi, and emby.

I'm looking to upgrade the video card with one that will work at 4k@60Hz. I don't need a heavy gaming card, just a reliable inexpensive card. I've been looking at a nvidia GTX 950, 960, 1050. I've been searching and there is allot of confusing information out there. Not sure if I need 2 or 4GB of memory? Any recommendations for selecting a card would be appreciated. I'm look to spend in the $150 range.


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post #2 of 17 Old 08-05-2017, 03:43 PM
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I have a Z87 and same CPU. Only diff is I use onboard graphics.

Could you explain why you would want to hook that up to a 4K HDR TV? What would be your video source ?
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post #3 of 17 Old 08-05-2017, 04:30 PM
 
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I would recommend 4gb because Netflix requires 3gb minimum for 4k streaming.

less expensive i found on Newegg assuming you are from the USA:
https://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...-170-_-Product

if you want more options:
https://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...CE&PageSize=36

Last edited by kwhite666; 08-05-2017 at 04:37 PM.
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post #4 of 17 Old 08-05-2017, 10:30 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grittree View Post
I have a Z87 and same CPU. Only diff is I use onboard graphics.
The motherboard manual shows:

Integrated Graphics Processor - Intel® HD Graphics support:
  1. 1 x D-Sub port
  2. 1 x DVI-D port, supporting a maximum resolution of 1920x1200
    * The DVI-D port does not support D-Sub connection by adapter.
  3. 1 x HDMI port, supporting a maximum resolution of 4096 x 2160 @ 24 Hz / 2560 x 1600 @ 60 Hz
    * Support for HDMI 1.4a version.
  4. Maximum shared memory of 1 GB
From what I read, the integrated graphics will only support 24 Hz.

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Originally Posted by grittree View Post
Could you explain why you would want to hook that up to a 4K HDR TV? What would be your video source ?
Because this is my new TV for my entertainment center which replaced a really old 46" Samsung. Why wouldn't I want to hook up to a 4K HDR, is that wrong to do?
As I said in the original post, my current video source is WMC with FIOS on win 7, Kodi and Emby, oh plus MPC-HC with madVR.


Quote:
Originally Posted by kwhite666 View Post
I would recommend 4gb because Netflix requires 3gb minimum for 4k streaming.

less expensive i found on Newegg assuming you are from the USA:
https://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...-170-_-Product

if you want more options:
https://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...CE&PageSize=36
Thanks for the links. Yes, I'm in the USA, the 1st ink is on backorder, but there are several other cards in my price range in the 2nd link. I'm probably better going with 4gb so I have less issues in the future. It looks like in my price range, the 1050 is the best choice?
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post #5 of 17 Old 08-06-2017, 05:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glader60 View Post
The motherboard manual shows:

Integrated Graphics Processor - Intel® HD Graphics support:
  1. 1 x D-Sub port
  2. 1 x DVI-D port, supporting a maximum resolution of 1920x1200
    * The DVI-D port does not support D-Sub connection by adapter.
  3. 1 x HDMI port, supporting a maximum resolution of 4096 x 2160 @ 24 Hz / 2560 x 1600 @ 60 Hz
    * Support for HDMI 1.4a version.
  4. Maximum shared memory of 1 GB
From what I read, the integrated graphics will only support 24 Hz.



Because this is my new TV for my entertainment center which replaced a really old 46" Samsung. Why wouldn't I want to hook up to a 4K HDR, is that wrong to do?
As I said in the original post, my current video source is WMC with FIOS on win 7, Kodi and Emby, oh plus MPC-HC with madVR.




Thanks for the links. Yes, I'm in the USA, the 1st ink is on backorder, but there are several other cards in my price range in the 2nd link. I'm probably better going with 4gb so I have less issues in the future. It looks like in my price range, the 1050 is the best choice?
Windows 7 and WMC were not designed for 4K. Windows 7 does not have the software and hardware support required for 4K media playback and WMC doesn't work at 4K. Your hardware is also incapable of playing protected 4K content because your CPU is too old. You can upgrade the GPU and install Windows 10, but you won't have a fully-capable 4K media PC. The best GPU upgrade would be the 1050 TI, which can often be found for under $150.
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post #6 of 17 Old 08-06-2017, 04:30 PM
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Glader, you never answered "what is your video source".

Despite a Z87 can't deliver 4K no matter what video card you add, there is also the problem of what is your video source?

Save your money. WMC can do 720p/1080i/1080p fine with just Intel graphics. Using a GTX nnn is needed only for playing games.

Look at Nvidia Shield. Don't waste your money on upgrading your PC.
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post #7 of 17 Old 08-06-2017, 10:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grittree View Post
Glader, you never answered "what is your video source".
Who cares what video source. glader60 doesn't have a computer that meets the requirements for 4K HDR from UHD Blu-ray. There is no Kaby Lake processor and the chipset is not a 200 series. These are needed in order to meet the only requirement for AACS 2.0 which is SGX (Software Guard Extensions). The only thing that glader60 can do with the computer is being an upscaler. In that case, a nVidia GeForce GTX 1080 will be best used for that computer.
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post #8 of 17 Old 08-08-2017, 06:26 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LexInVA View Post
Windows 7 and WMC were not designed for 4K. Windows 7 does not have the software and hardware support required for 4K media playback and WMC doesn't work at 4K. Your hardware is also incapable of playing protected 4K content because your CPU is too old. You can upgrade the GPU and install Windows 10, but you won't have a fully-capable 4K media PC. The best GPU upgrade would be the 1050 TI, which can often be found for under $150.
I didn't know my CPU was too old to play 4k media.

Quote:
Originally Posted by grittree View Post
Glader, you never answered "what is your video source".

Despite a Z87 can't deliver 4K no matter what video card you add, there is also the problem of what is your video source?

Save your money. WMC can do 720p/1080i/1080p fine with just Intel graphics. Using a GTX nnn is needed only for playing games.

Look at Nvidia Shield. Don't waste your money on upgrading your PC.
I didn't know a Z87 can't do 4K. Maybe I'll look into a Shield.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tecknurd View Post
Who cares what video source. glader60 doesn't have a computer that meets the requirements for 4K HDR from UHD Blu-ray. There is no Kaby Lake processor and the chipset is not a 200 series. These are needed in order to meet the only requirement for AACS 2.0 which is SGX (Software Guard Extensions). The only thing that glader60 can do with the computer is being an upscaler. In that case, a nVidia GeForce GTX 1080 will be best used for that computer.
Looks like I'll just throw in the towel for now and just keep what I have to send 1080p/720p from WMC to the new TV. I'm not ready to build a new PC right now. I'll just use the apps that came on the TV for 4k media.

BTW, the GTX 750 TI HDMI did detect the TV and set the resolution to 3840×2160. WMC also detected 3840×2160 and set the output appropriately. I didn't play around with it too much since my FIOS source is only 1080 at most so I set the GTX 750 back to 1080p.
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post #9 of 17 Old 08-09-2017, 01:17 PM
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You don't need to build a new PC for playback as suggested. A decent video card upgrade using madVR will playback the highest of bitrate UHD titles in any format like the popular HEVC in any container like iso or mkv as well as full file structure from the index.bdmv file just like a Blu-ray. UHD HDR also. You won't get menus though. For that you would need special hardware and PowerDVD. CPU doesn't matter. The GPU is doing all the decoding and you better get a hardware based one. My CPU is 10 years old, a Xeon. Windows 10 supports HDR, W7 doesn't. W8 might. Simple as that. You don't need a top of the line GPU. A GTX 960 4GB will play ANYTHING, oldest GPU I know of that can. I found one for $125 a year ago. You can invest more in newer but there's no point unless you game or find a better new/used deal. UHD, 3D MVC, HDR, HEVC, 1080p, etc. can all be rendered from the same HDMI 2.0 port. RGB full 12bit @23 - 60Hz is a breeze. Never tried but I don't think Netflix would be a problem. Ripping hardware requirements is a different story. You may or may not need to upgrade. We have no idea until ripping software becomes available, if ever. Until then, everyone is guessing what 'should' be required based on hardware protection that wiz bang software may get around. One thing is for sure, you would need a UHD ROM. Don't get discouraged. Be very careful in your GPU selection and you'll be fine. Tip: If you go NVidia and want complete automation with front ends like Kodi, be sure it accepts 378.92 driver. This is state of the art HDR dynamic switch specific and unrelated to anything else. Nice to see others weighing their options while we wait for the day we might be able to back up UHD's and for convenience, play them on our devices. Until then, we keep using dedicated roms but testing files to be ready for when that day arrives, if ever. Fwiw, other options would be streaming devices and gaming consoles however I've never tried them but know they have limitations in many other areas and it takes an array of them to cover most of the bases. Personally, and imo, given I already own a W10 PC (upgraded for free) and have no desire or reason to use an outdated O/S, I think simply upgrading a GPU is the best and least expensive option if you don't have a compatible one to begin with.

Last edited by brazen1; 08-09-2017 at 01:32 PM.
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post #10 of 17 Old 08-09-2017, 05:29 PM
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To play UHD discs you need the proper Intel CPU. The video card has nothing to do with it.

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post #11 of 17 Old 08-10-2017, 08:45 PM - Thread Starter
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Since it looks like a new motherboard with a Kaby Lake will be required to play UHD blu ray or netflix, I'll pass on upgrading my PC for awhile, prices can only go down. I'll just use the netflix and Amazon apps included in the TV to stream UHD media.
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post #12 of 17 Old 08-11-2017, 04:13 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glader60 View Post
Since it looks like a new motherboard with a Kaby Lake will be required to play UHD blu ray or netflix, I'll pass on upgrading my PC for awhile, prices can only go down. I'll just use the netflix and Amazon apps included in the TV to stream UHD media.
Not for Netflix, gtx 1000 series 3gb minimum is required: any CPU/mobo work.
Eventually, nvidia/cyberlink will add support to uhd bluray too . (we don't know yet if SGX will still be needed)

Last edited by kwhite666; 08-11-2017 at 04:17 AM.
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post #13 of 17 Old 08-11-2017, 05:00 AM
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Originally Posted by kwhite666 View Post
Not for Netflix, gtx 1000 series 3gb minimum is required: any CPU/mobo work.
Eventually, nvidia/cyberlink will add support to uhd bluray too . (we don't know yet if SGX will still be needed)
If SGX is still needed then I could see Nvidia not being in a hurry.

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post #14 of 17 Old 08-12-2017, 09:15 AM
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AMD is now a PlayReady licensee for hardware, so they are cooking up drivers for Windows 10 to work with Polaris GPUs and later hardware and getting their own security hardware up and running with PlayReady DRM. Likely, we'll get something by the holiday sale season, when AMD's new APUs will be in laptops, some of which will be packing 4K displays. UHD-BD drives are also coming in large numbers next year, as chipsets for these drives - the ones used now are apparently customized, older chipsets - are currently in development to allow for a broad OEM market once available. Next year will also see 4K HDR monitors for gaming, with advanced G-Sync and FreeSync technology, which can be used for media playback if implemented by media player devs.
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post #15 of 17 Old 09-25-2017, 07:26 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brazen1 View Post
You don't need to build a new PC for playback as suggested. A decent video card upgrade using madVR will playback the highest of bitrate UHD titles in any format like the popular HEVC in any container like iso or mkv as well as full file structure from the index.bdmv file just like a Blu-ray. UHD HDR also. You won't get menus though. For that you would need special hardware and PowerDVD. CPU doesn't matter. The GPU is doing all the decoding and you better get a hardware based one. My CPU is 10 years old, a Xeon. Windows 10 supports HDR, W7 doesn't. W8 might. Simple as that. You don't need a top of the line GPU. A GTX 960 4GB will play ANYTHING, oldest GPU I know of that can. I found one for $125 a year ago. You can invest more in newer but there's no point unless you game or find a better new/used deal. UHD, 3D MVC, HDR, HEVC, 1080p, etc. can all be rendered from the same HDMI 2.0 port. RGB full 12bit @23 - 60Hz is a breeze. Never tried but I don't think Netflix would be a problem. Ripping hardware requirements is a different story. You may or may not need to upgrade. We have no idea until ripping software becomes available, if ever. Until then, everyone is guessing what 'should' be required based on hardware protection that wiz bang software may get around. One thing is for sure, you would need a UHD ROM. Don't get discouraged. Be very careful in your GPU selection and you'll be fine. Tip: If you go NVidia and want complete automation with front ends like Kodi, be sure it accepts 378.92 driver. This is state of the art HDR dynamic switch specific and unrelated to anything else. Nice to see others weighing their options while we wait for the day we might be able to back up UHD's and for convenience, play them on our devices. Until then, we keep using dedicated roms but testing files to be ready for when that day arrives, if ever. Fwiw, other options would be streaming devices and gaming consoles however I've never tried them but know they have limitations in many other areas and it takes an array of them to cover most of the bases. Personally, and imo, given I already own a W10 PC (upgraded for free) and have no desire or reason to use an outdated O/S, I think simply upgrading a GPU is the best and least expensive option if you don't have a compatible one to begin with.
Thanks for your detailed reply. You have a good point with madVR. I'm seeing UHD HDR movies being ripped for playback with something like media player classic with madVR. Though you mention win10 supports HDR but win7 doesn't, so I would need win10 for HDR to play them back? I'm finding 4GB 1050 ti cards for under $150 so maybe I'll pick one up. As far as UHD ROM, they say kaby lake is required for playback, but I wonder about ripping?
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post #16 of 17 Old 09-25-2017, 10:46 AM
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Yes, madVR, MPC-BE and LAV filters are what I use. MPC-HC is not in development anymore afaik and I prefer MPC-BE anyway. I use state of the art software for everything. Yes, W10 makes for a better and more dynamic experience. Fwiw, we are no longer limited to older driver for dynamic HDR switching. This works perfectly using the latest now. Many things are advancing and cooperation between developers is currently fantastic as these 'hard to achieve things' become more fluid. The 1050ti 4GB should be a good choice though I haven't tried one. Limited feedback has suggested it's fine although I haven't seen detailed tests covering the entire gamut as I have for 1060's, 1070's, 1080's and my own 960. You may want to consider waiting for the new Nvidia Volta some time next year (LexInVA brought me somewhat up to speed on this and appears it may be years ahead of the competition when released) although I have no idea about specifics. Imo, Nvidia is the only way to achieve everything that is presently being done by us home users at this time.
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post #17 of 17 Old 09-25-2017, 08:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brazen1 View Post
Yes, madVR, MPC-BE and LAV filters are what I use. MPC-HC is not in development anymore afaik and I prefer MPC-BE anyway. I use state of the art software for everything. Yes, W10 makes for a better and more dynamic experience. Fwiw, we are no longer limited to older driver for dynamic HDR switching. This works perfectly using the latest now. Many things are advancing and cooperation between developers is currently fantastic as these 'hard to achieve things' become more fluid. The 1050ti 4GB should be a good choice though I haven't tried one. Limited feedback has suggested it's fine although I haven't seen detailed tests covering the entire gamut as I have for 1060's, 1070's, 1080's and my own 960. You may want to consider waiting for the new Nvidia Volta some time next year (LexInVA brought me somewhat up to speed on this and appears it may be years ahead of the competition when released) although I have no idea about specifics. Imo, Nvidia is the only way to achieve everything that is presently being done by us home users at this time.
Thanks for your comment,
i have some question: My exist PC: Core I5 (2nd gen), Main board Z68 chipset with PCI-X gen 2 (x16), Can i buy GTX 1060 (3gb) for this PC with high MadVR setting? what will you choose between 1060 3gb and 1050 4gb? I use to upscale from 1080p BD,
My JVC RS4910 with 4k input from PC will improve PQ than 4k from Oppo 103 upscaling?
Let me know.

Last edited by khactuyen; 09-25-2017 at 09:27 PM.
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