DVspoof (formerly DVtools) v1.1 Released - Multifile support! - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 83 Old 05-28-2001, 05:58 PM - Thread Starter
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Okay, here is the release of the new version of DVspoof v1.3, now with (enhanced) multifile support.

Download it from here: http://members.home.net/andy.kromkan...of_v13beta.zip

*please* read the README.txt file before proceeding or asking questions. All the answers can be found in there.

Type DVenc or DVdec with no parameters for brief help and current limitations of the tools.

As always, I appreciate any and all feedback here and to my email: kromkamp@my-deja.com .

Thanks!

Andy K.


[This message has been edited by kromkamp (edited 06-04-2001).]

[This message has been edited by kromkamp (edited 06-04-2001).]
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post #2 of 83 Old 05-28-2001, 08:34 PM
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Great work Andy! I will try these out tonight.

The readme says that the file count starts at 0, for example 0000. What can be done if we have lots of programming that starts at other numbers, like 0005. A lot of times the first few minutes of a recording are all the preshow commercials, so I delete them. When I watch the show with the HiPix, I start with the file containing the start of the show. Sometimes this file is past 0000. We can save n*140MB by deleting the files before the show. I can see this happening more often for scheduled, unattended recordings.

thank you very much for this great util!
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post #3 of 83 Old 05-28-2001, 08:48 PM - Thread Starter
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fluf,

I suggest just using some small dummy files and calling them the 0000-> 0004 files.

Give me one more pass with the tools to get the useability up, right now they are pretty good but still restrictive in ways like this.

Andy K.
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post #4 of 83 Old 05-28-2001, 08:57 PM
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yup, good workaround Andy. thx!
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post #5 of 83 Old 05-28-2001, 11:02 PM
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Hm. Something weird: If I try the small dummy files workaround (see above), I get an .avi that cannot be displayed as multicolored swirls. But if the 0000 and 0001 files are 140MB hipix files, everything is ok.

Looking at the enclog.txt there is a difference. When I use the dummy files the log file says:

(Reading from new input file wh.ts.0000) 1 frames
Writing to new output file w0000.avi
0 (Reading from new input file wh.ts.0001) 1 frames 0 (Reading from new input file wh.ts.0002) 1 frames 0 (Reading from new input file wh.ts.0003) 1406 frames 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 [...] 1392 1393 1394 1395 1396 1397 1398 1399 1400 1401 1402 1403 1404 1405 (Reading from new input file wh.ts.0004) 1406 frames 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 [...]
1402 1403 1404 1405 (Reading from new input file wh.ts.0005)

Input file does not exist, finishing!

But when I have true hipix files as 0000 and 0001, it says:

Total size of files to convert: 288190464
Total # of frames: 2870
Size of each .avi file: 1920000000
Total # of .avi files: 1

(Reading from new input file wh.ts.0000) 1406 frames
Writing to new output file w0000.avi
0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 [...] 1403 1404 1405 (Reading from new input file wh.ts.0001) 1406 frames 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 [...]
1392 1393 1394 1395 1396 1397 1398 1399 1400 1401 1402 1403 1404 1405 Done!

(Notice the "Done!" is different)

I tried increasing the size of the dummy files (to 24KB). Still get a bad AVI file from dvenc.

Should the dummy files be a certain size? thanks Andy

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post #6 of 83 Old 05-29-2001, 06:04 AM - Thread Starter
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Hi fluf,

yes I know what the problem is. Try making the dummy files at least 120kbytes.

Keep in mind that every file translates into a minimum of 30frames (1second) of data on the tape, because I repeat the first frame of data 30 times (to make sure it gets stored correctly). What this means is that any dummy file regardless of its size is going to take up ~3Mbytes of space. So the difference between a 12kbyte and 120kbyte file is negligible.

Your other option is to go through and rename all those files to starting with 0000.

If I get a chance today I'll try to modify the tools to specify a start count, maybe something like so:

DVenc <infile> <infilecount_offset> <outfile> <framesperoutputfile>

Example: DVenc hp.ts.#### 5 w####.avi 16000

starts reading at hp.ts.0005. Output files would still be numbered w0000.avi and up, and when you decode the new hp.ts.#### files with DVdec they would start at 5 (hp.ts.0005)

Would this work?

Andy K.


[This message has been edited by kromkamp (edited 05-29-2001).]

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post #7 of 83 Old 05-29-2001, 08:06 AM - Thread Starter
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Okay, I made a quick change that enables this feature. Its not 100% tested but should work. Find it here:
http://members.home.net/andy.kromkan...of_v12beta.zip

Syntax is as described above.

Let me know if this helps,

Andy K.

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post #8 of 83 Old 05-29-2001, 10:52 AM
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I did a brief speed test on my work machine, too. It's a 233 MHz Pentium II, Intel chipset Mbd, 64 MB RAM, AHA-2940 SCSI Ctlr, IBM 8 GB HDD. Input files (qty = 4 plus a fractional 5th) are HiPix format; output to single avi file on same HDD.

Results: 5.5 frames per second, about 18% of real time. (That ignores the 30 copies of each of the 0th frames in each file.)

-yogaman
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post #9 of 83 Old 05-29-2001, 11:03 AM - Thread Starter
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yellow1,

I dont know why its doing that. I can think of a workaround, add an extra dummy file at the end of the list of input files(copy the last file twice or something), so it gets corrupted instead of real data.

yogaman,

dont worry about the speed, I'm aware its abysmal right now http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif It will get much better. The code is currenty *very* sloppy with file accesses. (single-byte fgetc() calls instead of much more efficient fread() calls that will read a whole frame of data at once)

You'll have to wait several weeks for performance improvements, though. I plan to rewrite the code in a much more polished fashion before incorporating speed improvements.

One trick that will boost the speed right now if you have 2 hard drives in your system is to read from one and write to the other.

The main question right now is: Does it work? Are you able to transfer a whole 2-hour movie back and forth?

Andy K.
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post #10 of 83 Old 05-29-2001, 11:04 AM
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yoga,
You may want to use a faster CPU. I don't have numbers for you right now, but I'm quite sure I was doing better than real-time with a P3/933 with the original release. I'll be testing the new release tonight.
Gary
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post #11 of 83 Old 05-29-2001, 11:40 AM
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Andy:

I can't test 1394 transfers at work. At home I was trying to get a whole movie (only 1h50m, but I think it will serve) onto tape, and the encoding hadn't completed when I left the house this morning.

I don't expect camcorder or 1394 transfer problems, based on v1.0 testing, but I agree regression testing is important. Btw, I do plan to register Scenalyzer Live to try to get error-free transfers.

The reason I didn't try writing the encoded files onto a separate disk on the same IDE controller was that the second disk was too full. Being in a hurry this morning, I didn't want to spend the extra time pre-copying enough stuff to the first disk to make room for the encoded files.

I do expect a speedup from using separate disks, and I will test and report. I may even try moving the target disk to the second IDE controller as a separate test.

I'm happy to hear that you haven't yet taken out the "cheese" you described in the predecessor thread. It's nice to know the future will be brighter, but even on a relatively modest performance machine like I have at home, I think the package is usable now as an archival backup tool.

GaryHDTV:

I'd love to use a faster machine http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/wink.gif, but I thought I'd report on what I have. Note that the work machine is even below the recommended performance level for a HiPix. I wouldn't plan to use this in a "production" environment.

Actually, I've been holding off upgrading my system speed until I can get someone to estimate what speed CPU is required for 30 fps HDTV playback. I've asked in the HDTV playback in software only thread, but no answer yet.

(Also no answer yet from any AccessDTV owner about resilience to corrupted encrypted recordings. Don't they want a cheap backup medium?)


Additional test observations:

On the work machine, DVDec achieved 13.3 fps.

Space inflation due to the encoding process is approximately 20%.
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post #12 of 83 Old 05-29-2001, 11:54 AM
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Andy, thanks very much for adding the file offset option to 1.2beta. I was going to write a script to rename all my files, but now I don't have to http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/biggrin.gif Will try it out tonight and report findings.

HDfluf
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post #13 of 83 Old 05-29-2001, 12:47 PM
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I'm using a P3/800 at work with a single drive (DMA on) and DVenc 1.1 was able to encode a single 627,908KB iso file into a 738,547KB AVI (6271 frames) in 3min50sec. That's a little over 27fps. This is better than the HiPix data rate. Decode time for the same file was 4min15sec.

yogaman...
Yes, I too have experimented with the Elecard ATCS decoder, but I think the HDTV/4 version is the best we can hope for in pure software right now, unless they can use some video cards hardware assist. I think it will be a while before CPU's are fast enough for the full resolution decoder (in other words, don't hold your breath). On a P3/933 with RadeonDDR, I'm only getting about 5fps from the full res decoder... great picture, though.


[This message has been edited by GaryHDTV (edited 05-29-2001).]
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post #14 of 83 Old 05-29-2001, 02:23 PM - Thread Starter
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Dont forget with software playback, there is *no* way you will be able to stream off the tape and run DVdec at the same time. Not for a few years anyways...

Andy K.
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post #15 of 83 Old 05-29-2001, 02:54 PM
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Andy:

I hate hearing, "It cannot be done."

The following should be considered a theoretical discussion, not a work request:

Let's assume that the ATSC decoding can be handled in real time, possibly using DCT hardware, but possibly just on a 2.5 GHz processor, circa 2002. I don't think that streaming from a 4 MB/sec I/O device is any worse than streaming from an HDD, given a few hundred kilobytes of buffer storage (a couple AVI frames).

The key to any high performance computing application is to minimize the number of times the data gets copied. It seems like a straightforward ping-pong buffer management scheme could work: one of the buffers is filling with tape data while the other is being de-AVI'd then ATSC-decoded. At regular intervals, the buffers are swapped. (If the times don't quite line up, it may be necessary to implement a ring I/O buffer management scheme, but we're still only talking a few AVI frames, not hundreds of megabytes.)

It might be necessary for the ATSC decoder driver to perform the de-AVI operation by intelligently sequencing the transfers into the ATSC decoder hardware (or software module). But the overhead for this data shuffling should be pretty small.

The fact that there are extra AVI-encoding bytes that are never transferred out of the buffer wouldn't matter. As long as the data in the AVI buffer get consumed by the ATSC decoder before the buffer must be switched (i.e., the definition of real time), everything's groovy. (And that's an average consumption rate, as opposed to absolute, if ring buffers are used.)

Or am I missing something?

-yogaman
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post #16 of 83 Old 05-29-2001, 04:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by yogaman:

(Also no answer yet from any AccessDTV owner about resilience to corrupted encrypted recordings. Don't they want a cheap backup medium?)

See my post: http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/Forum12/HTML/010824.html

Not a pretty sighthttp://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif

Joe

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post #17 of 83 Old 05-29-2001, 05:41 PM
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This is bringing back memories of the old TRS-80 Model 1 days when I use to save and load programs on a cheap audio cassette deck!
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post #18 of 83 Old 05-29-2001, 05:44 PM
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I wouldn't get too excited about AccessDTV's response to corrupted data until we have a better idea of whether this is a problem and how serious (how likely) it is.
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post #19 of 83 Old 05-29-2001, 05:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by GaryHDTV:
This is bringing back memories of the old TRS-80 Model 1 days when I use to save and load programs on a cheap audio cassette deck!
Gary,
We are showing our agehttp://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif
My first computer was the Radio Shack Color Computer. It used a cassette deck also.

Sorry to go off topic but I could not resist.


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post #20 of 83 Old 05-29-2001, 09:01 PM
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Preliminary test observation:

1. DVEnc speed is about 100 MB/minute, or about 30% slower than real time. System specs: 450 MHz Pentium III, Iwill VD133 (Via) Mbd with 128 MBytes of 133 MHz, CAS2 memory, reading and writing to same WD 60G (600AB), 5400 rpm HDD. Test files are 140 MB HiPix files, indexed from 0000. Creating 16000 frame (1.92 gb or 1,875,376KB) files.

Andy:

Does v1.1 have any speed optimizations over v1.0? Or can we hope for better performance someday?

Regards,
-yogaman

[This message has been edited by yogaman (edited 05-29-2001).]
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post #21 of 83 Old 05-29-2001, 09:55 PM
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Thanks !
Any thoughts on why Premiere's "Export To Tape" truncates the end of the file. I'd rather use it than "Print To File", since in the first case, Premiere stops the Camera automatically.
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post #22 of 83 Old 05-30-2001, 10:52 AM - Thread Starter
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It has come to my attention that some DV software (Scenalyzer, for example) starts the capture .avi filenames at a value other than 0 (for example, scene0001.avi instead of scene0000.avi)

I have updated DVdec to handle this. Please download http://members.home.net/andy.kromkan...of_v13beta.zip

Syntax for new DVdec:

Usage: DVdec <infiles> <input filecount offset> <outfiles>

Example: DVdec capture####.avi 0 newdata####.mpg (starts at capture0000.avi)

Example2: DVdec capture####.avi 1 data.ts.#### (starts at capture0001.avi)

Andy K.


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post #23 of 83 Old 05-30-2001, 02:28 PM
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Great work Andy. I was successful in encoding and uploading with scenanalyzer last night. more transfers tonight. I have been using the same tape and rewriting to it without any problems so far.

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post #24 of 83 Old 05-30-2001, 09:48 PM
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SUCCESS. The multifile support is sweet. I dvenc'd an hour of hidef to 2GB AVIs and wrote all of them to tape in one swoop with Scenalyzer.

Rewind tape. Then I used Scenalyzer's capture feature to retrieve each of those 2GB AVIs from tape. Scenalyzer is smart and saves them as individual 2GB AVIs on disk. probably looks at the timecode. Just click capture and walk away. Cam stops automatically when done -- love it.

Ran dvdec which intelligently restored each hipix file from the retrieved AVIs, PERFECTLY. Not one byte was missing. BTW, this tape has been used for at least 2 previous recordings, so not a virgin tape at all.

Finally a solution to my HD archiving problem! oh yeah!

*** THANKS ANDY ***

Win98se, HiPix, Sony TRV120 (D8), Pyro 1394.
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post #25 of 83 Old 05-31-2001, 03:19 AM
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Awesome !

Can't wait for the PAL version http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif
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post #26 of 83 Old 05-31-2001, 06:11 AM
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And another success story...

Specific benchmarks...P3/933 using common drive (80gig, 5400rpm Maxtor on IDE2, UDMA66 mode)

Source files: HiPix
Feature length: 105 min
Encoding time: 91 min
Tape usage: 85 min
Decode time: 94 min
16000 frames per encoded AVI file

I used Fuji 120(60)min Standard 8mm tape in SP record mode. Tape #1 held the first 6 files (58min) recorded as a single stream with Scenalyzer. Tape #2 held the remaining files (27min) as a single stream. Interesting thing... on restoration the Scenalyzer software breaks the single stream into 2 gig segments. These segments are longer than the slighly less than 2 gig encode files produced by using the 16000 frame file size. This results in the restored AVI's split point to be different than the original encoded AVI's. This is of no consequence as DVdec treats all the files as one continuous stream and decodes them back to the original 140 MB HiPix minute files perfectly. Scenalyzers 2 gig file split point (when scene detection is turned off) is at 9min24sec16frames, so if you want the encoded AVI files size to be the same as the Scenalyzer split point size, use a frame count of 16918... not that it matters.

YES!, the tools work exactly as intended and produced a 100% error free backup on the first try. With proper tape care and storage, I don't see dropouts being a problem. Andy, you can consider this project, with it's current goals, to be a 100% success! Congratulations! You have created the 'missing link'.

Will anyone join me in a round of applause for kromkamp ********************!!!


[This message has been edited by GaryHDTV (edited 06-01-2001).]
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post #27 of 83 Old 05-31-2001, 08:40 AM
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Congratulations Andy K and all the beta testers for sharing the good news with us. It seems now with this added archiving capability that HiPix had suddenly vaulted back ahead of AccessDTV....if only we could buy one in the near future!

Andy: Have you gotten any threatening late night phone calls from Jack Valenti's MPAA boys?

"Hey Kronkamp stop tweaking that software or you're gonna be sleeping with the fishes...."

------------------
STOP DVI/HDCP; Boycott JVC

HDTV Early Adopter
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post #28 of 83 Old 05-31-2001, 08:58 AM - Thread Starter
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http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif Thanks guys, glad to see its working (Is this with v13, BTW?)

I wonder if HiPix will send me one of thier boards for compatability testing? http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif

Andy K.
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post #29 of 83 Old 05-31-2001, 03:28 PM
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Wow! Real interesting stuff. It's like my comadore from the 80's with a cassete drive http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif I've got a HiPix and tons of files ready to be archived. My specs:

1.2GHz Thunderbird
512MB PC133 RAM
40GB WD 7200
60GB WD 5400
HiPix w/ v. 2.3
Sony DVR310 D8 Camcorder
Orange Micro 1394 card

Where can I get ScenalyzerLIVE from. The webstied doesn't work? Is there a trial version of premiere I can get? Thanks. and a special thanks to Andy. You da man!


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post #30 of 83 Old 05-31-2001, 03:57 PM
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Vasim:

Re: Scenalyzer Live.

I don't know why you couldn't get it from the website, but...

You've got mail.

Also:

Everyone should realize that the demo version of SALive will corrupt the video stream, so data will be corrupted. You'll need to register at their website ($33).

-yogaman
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