ATI HDTV Wonder - Page 22 - AVS Forum
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post #631 of 4139 Old 09-10-2004, 11:51 AM
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Report from Boston area.
P4 2Mhz
1GB Ram
9800 Pro
DVI out to LP130 Projector

OTA rules!
I watched the Patriots game last night and the picture was unreal.
HD is awesome with my setup.

I do have a problem with the CATV input.
I plug my analog cable TV feed into the HDWonder CATV port and get nothing. It seems as though this port doesn't work.
I select "TV" in Media Center and it fails to launch.
I run PC Check and it says I don't have the WDM Capture INF files installed.
Tried to install them again, but nothing still.

Anyone got the cable TV portion working on this card?
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post #632 of 4139 Old 09-10-2004, 12:12 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by grogs
Added:
Oh, I did one more test.
How about record using "Windows Movie Maker version 5.1" and recording from the AIW 9700 PRO MCC/TV+ composite at the same time I play a show on the ATI HDTV DTV application. Sure I can, and the recorded video came out perfect with no sound mixing.


Greg

WOW! Not sure how you did this. I have an AIW 9800 Pro and an HDTV Wonder. Both are attached using an antenna. Also I have a 2.6 GHZ Intel board.

What I do not understand is that the MMC does not let me run the DTV and TV application at the same time. It definatly does not let me record and view at the same time.

How did you do this?

I guess the MovieMaker is not an issue as it is a separate program that has no connection to the MMC.

What does the AmCap do that would allow for the MMC to act differently.

Sorry for being a DirectX newbie.

Thanks!
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post #633 of 4139 Old 09-10-2004, 12:13 PM
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Hey, I watched the Pats game too. It wasn't bad, but I have to ask how much audio/visual stuttering do you get?

First night I installed it, I got a ton of stuttering, but bought an amplified antenna from Radio Shack which helped a little, but then installed a new sound card instead of on-board and that helped a bit too.

However I still got some stuttering during the game.

If they ever completely fix the stuttering, it'd be perfect.

By the way, I'm on a 3.2ghz P4, 1gb ram, Radeon 9800 Pro, and now Chaintech av-710 sound card.

EDIT: Oh and I have analog cable working fine (in fact I have 3 total tv tuner cards in this --2 blackbird cards + this HDTV aiw, and all works fine)
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post #634 of 4139 Old 09-10-2004, 12:23 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by genro
Hey, I watched the Pats game too. It wasn't bad, but I have to ask how much audio/visual stuttering do you get?

First night I installed it, I got a ton of stuttering, but bought an amplified antenna from Radio Shack which helped a little, but then installed a new sound card instead of on-board and that helped a bit too.

However I still got some stuttering during the game.

I too got stuttering until I turned off the pass through and went with downmix. Does not sound as good, but worked.

I too have on-board sound, and was wondering if upgrading to a dedicated sound card helps? Does it help for analog sound as well? Are you using pass through?

Finally, what is the street cost for sound card you bought?
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post #635 of 4139 Old 09-10-2004, 12:28 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by RogueWarrior
I too got stuttering until I turned off the pass through and went with downmix. Does not sound as good, but worked.

I too have on-board sound, and was wondering if upgrading to a dedicated sound card helps? Does it help for analog sound as well? Are you using pass through?

Finally, what is the street cost for sound card you bought?

I wasn't even doing pass through, just playing it on some crappy 2.1 speaker set I have on the computer.

I went with the chaintech av-710, which is like $30 and is an Envy24 based card, which you can read about a lot around here, but is an excellent sound card and especially for the money.

I definitely think that the onboard sound caused quite a bit of the stuttering (maybe not all, but 75% at least).

It was very watchable after changing the sound card and getting the amplified antenna. I may try the original antenna just to compare though.
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post #636 of 4139 Old 09-10-2004, 04:35 PM
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NFL in HD is just gorgeous (especially the cheerbabes ).

I am also using onboard sound (C-Media chip) with SPDIF pass-thru and I get almost no AV stuttering using the DTV app. I get terrible stuttering with the analog TV app though... go figure.

Anyway, I am ruined now. I don't want to watch anything unless it is HD... not even DVDs. I am even watching stuff on PBS now ('SoundStage' is great).

Will work for HTPC components.
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post #637 of 4139 Old 09-10-2004, 04:45 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by ttriplett
NFL in HD is just gorgeous (especially the cheerbabes ).

I am also using onboard sound (C-Media chip) with SPDIF pass-thru and I get almost no AV stuttering using the DTV app. I get terrible stuttering with the analog TV app though... go figure.

Anyway, I am ruined now. I don't want to watch anything unless it is HD... not even DVDs. I am even watching stuff on PBS now ('SoundStage' is great).

Hmm interesting, I wonder if a lot of the stuttering is related to signal strength. Though I am getting 80-90% strength generally.

Out of curiosity what Catalyst drivers are you using? I'm using 4.9 , but I am going to try to downgrade to 4.6, because that supposedly has gotten rid of stutter for some people.
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post #638 of 4139 Old 09-10-2004, 06:47 PM
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just installed HDTV Wonder...
P4 @2.6ghz (400mhz system bus, no HT)
FIC 9800Pro 128mb
1.5g rdram 800mhz (yeah right, lol)
60g HD 7200rpm ?cache...
this is a Dell 8200, Intel 850 chipset
very stable PC

Currently using a Samsung Sir-T351 tuner to Panasonic 42-PDH6(max 16x12) Sometimes to my PC monitor Sony 18"effective TFT max12:10. This model has been very nice feature wise, both digital sounds connections, DVI, component, always on S-Video(never use), etc. Changing output resolution is manual though from a small switch in the back (stupid) that you can never read if its dark, or find. I guess they expect you to set and forget, which I have done, 1080i...But some shows on DTV in 720p look much nicer at that lower resolution.
I install the card and boot up. Chaos errupts as Windows reconfigures irqs and searchs for drivers, I also get a prompt from Creative for a missing WDM dll. I pop my Audigy LS CD in but no luck. Take it out pop in ATI HDTV CD, after a long install I'm prompted to restart after a successful install. I'm thinking this is going just as planned, pretty much. Reboot. Black screen with message accross middle "The power cable to your ATI 9800 is unpluged, please shut off and check connections." Crap. Uhhh...reboot again. Same message. Unplug power, wait 15 seconds, reboot Windows loads...success so far.
Windows takes a good minute to load...crap again...finally enters startup services, same Creative missing .dll prompt...grrr no sound either. So I reinstall my Audigy LS drivers, reboot, all good.
Screw in antenna (Zenith SS, looks identical to ATI's, lol) click open DTV icon, do the long, long, long, channel search. Get all my channels. I set my cache pretty high, which might have been a bad idea, after watching for awhile I begin getting stuttering of the picture and some sound quality degradation. The picture quality of SDTV was better with Wonder than with the Samsung. Did not watch any 1080 or 720 programming. Thats where I stand now. I will retry with different settings tonight with HDTV prgramming. So far I am not happy with choppy performance.
I might install this card in my AMD FX system if I cannot get the performance under control in the Dell. Space is an issue in that case, and is not easy to 'plug and play' due to watercooling tubes and a large video card waterblock.
Has anyone run this PCI card at a higher bus speed, such as 36-38mhz?
More to come.
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post #639 of 4139 Old 09-10-2004, 08:02 PM
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AmCap is one of the DirectShow examples in the Microsoft DirectX SDK. You can download the SDK for free from Microsoft.

The reason it works is the application is simple and does not acceleration. On the down-side it does use a lot of CPU to do it.

If you want to get real crazy you can pull the S-VIDEO-out from your AIW to the S-VIDEO-IN of your ATI HDTV CARD and you can do extended desktop using the AmCap program. Why do I think of doing things like this? I don't know!

Greg

Quote:


Originally posted by RogueWarrior
WOW! Not sure how you did this. I have an AIW 9800 Pro and an HDTV Wonder. Both are attached using an antenna. Also I have a 2.6 GHZ Intel board.

What I do not understand is that the MMC does not let me run the DTV and TV application at the same time. It definatly does not let me record and view at the same time.

How did you do this?

I guess the MovieMaker is not an issue as it is a separate program that has no connection to the MMC.

What does the AmCap do that would allow for the MMC to act differently.

Sorry for being a DirectX newbie.

Thanks!

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post #640 of 4139 Old 09-10-2004, 09:29 PM
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I used to have video studdering and all kinds of issues with my 2 previous UHF antennas. (Included antenna and the Terk one that clips on my satellite dish).

I installed a Squareshooter1000 with the optional dish bracket.

I was told by a local Electronis provider (You Do It Electronics) that his installers have had great luck with this Winegard Squareshooter.

I told him I had 100 feet of RG6 between my antenna and receiver.
They have a pre-amp version of the Squareshooter, but he said I didn't need the pre-amp.

He was right. No drops whatsoever.

I think the antenna you have has everything to do with how well this tuner works.

My terkTV42 antenna showed high signals, but the tech told me it was just a lot of noise/garbage registering as signal strength.

I hated this tuner card until I got this antenna.
Now I can't get enough!

HD is the only way to watch....
Can't wait for Monday Night Football.
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post #641 of 4139 Old 09-10-2004, 09:48 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by prosper
I used to have video studdering and all kinds of issues with my 2 previous UHF antennas. (Included antenna and the Terk one that clips on my satellite dish).

I installed a Squareshooter1000 with the optional dish bracket.

I was told by a local Electronis provider (You Do It Electronics) that his installers have had great luck with this Winegard Squareshooter.

I told him I had 100 feet of RG6 between my antenna and receiver.
They have a pre-amp version of the Squareshooter, but he said I didn't need the pre-amp.

He was right. No drops whatsoever.

I think the antenna you have has everything to do with how well this tuner works.

My terkTV42 antenna showed high signals, but the tech told me it was just a lot of noise/garbage registering as signal strength.

I hated this tuner card until I got this antenna.
Now I can't get enough!

HD is the only way to watch....
Can't wait for Monday Night Football.

Thanks for the info, that is kind of what I thought (well after I stopped rid of using on board sound, that definitely caused stuttering too).
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post #642 of 4139 Old 09-10-2004, 10:30 PM
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After updating all the drivers and software, it runs better but you have to force a good synch with the signal. For example, when changing channel if it is stuttering, usually double clicking to full screen and back and forth will synch everything qucikly. So I agree, signal strength is very important. But this is not an excuse for ATI, considering I have stutter free performance from my Samsung sirt, and I live less than 4 miles from every broadcast tower and I have good line of sight. I've tried both antennae too, which happen to be almost identical btw.
I find the overall "do it now" buttons seriously lacking when it comes to recording DTV, resolution, file format, etc. It should be much easier to change these settings on the go and whenever you want.
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post #643 of 4139 Old 09-11-2004, 12:03 AM
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Well, I think I found another bug in the software or at least a limitation.

My display is a LP130 Projector....was and LX1 previously.
I just swapped over to the LP130 tonight.

Unfortunately the LP130 doesn't have a "ceiling" selection in it's menu to invert the image since it's mounted on the ceiling upside down.
I set my 9800Pro to 180 degree inverted to flip the display upside down, making up for the projector limitations.

Now everything except for DTV works.
DVD plays fine...media library.
However, DTV won't launch when the 9800Pro is "inverting" the image.

Oh well, back to the old projector.
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post #644 of 4139 Old 09-11-2004, 08:43 AM
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Anybody out there having sound problems? I went through most of the thread and saw one reference to extremely low volume when using 2 channel down mix and several references to stutter when trying Dolby Digital pass through. I can't get DD pass through to work for more than 10 seconds and the stuttering gets so bad the sound stops altogether and the picture changes at about a frame every couple of seconds. When in 2 channel downmix, I have to set master volume and speaker volume to near full. I have 550 watt Logitch Z-680 speakers which make one hell of a noise when a system sound occurs. I can get good volume from recorded files and if I switch to DD then back to 2 channel downmix which doesn't work on my local PBS HD station. Tried ATI "Customer Care" got an automated response on sound issues, dutifully went through that to no avail. Replied via e-mail 4 business days ago and no response, not even automated.

If there's anybody out there from ATI watching, my issue # is - TicketGUID:{93E96750-EEE6-4FB7-B621-FF406A756B2A}

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post #645 of 4139 Old 09-11-2004, 10:00 AM
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Do these Wonders have any sort of onboard memory? There are no visible chips on the board, except I cant see what's under the metal housing....but I doubt thats memory. For 180USD, these cards should have 64MB of decently fast memory onboard.
There is no doubt this is a first generation product, and for pure viewing of DTV, the ATSC set top receivers are leaps and bounds above this product. But they dont record....
Tommorrow, though, I will watch two NFL games in HDTV using split screen on my plasma, which will be very cool. I will really get to compare IQ then.
Then, to transfer the Wonder Remote codes to my RTI Theater Touch remote...
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post #646 of 4139 Old 09-11-2004, 10:14 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by DrCrawn
Do these Wonders have any sort of onboard memory? There are no visible chips on the board, except I cant see what's under the metal housing....but I doubt thats memory. For 180USD, these cards should have 64MB of decently fast memory onboard.
There is no doubt this is a first generation product, and for pure viewing of DTV, the ATSC set top receivers are leaps and bounds above this product. But they dont record....
Tommorrow, though, I will watch two NFL games in HDTV using split screen on my plasma, which will be very cool. I will really get to compare IQ then.
Then, to transfer the Wonder Remote codes to my RTI Theater Touch remote...

This product does not have a GPU and as such uses the system and/or graphics card memory as the frame buffer. The demodulator chip does have memory that is necessary for forward error correction.
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post #647 of 4139 Old 09-11-2004, 11:45 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by N.C. Man
Yeah i have this same problem with my local FOX station. A few days ago it was working great, but now i get nothing. The signal strength meter still shows 91-94%. I found out from a guy on the HDTV Board that my local fox just switched on their new Splicer system.

Is one of your two stations FOX? If so, it might be related to the new Splicer system. All FOX station will be using this same Splicer system by Sept 12. I hope ATI gets this crap fixed soon

Well, it's 9/11 and I can't get video or sound from my Fox affiliate. There goes the Rams games!

Let's sum up the problems....
- Sound volume too low on Decode and Downmix
- Pass through to Audio Device does not work for more than 10 seconds.
- PBS affiliate video displays only upper left hand corner unless I switch from a 720p station.
- Cannot read features pull down menu in scheduler
- Can't get dual mode display to work (although this could be because my 9000 pro is not DX 9 compliant, but Power DVD player doesn't care).
- No response from ATI "Customer Care".

I need something I can tell my wife and kid how to use. This is not it. I'll give 'em a couple of days to get back to me, but I think this product is a failure that is going to cost them big time. Anybody remember the Matrox M3D? Should have gotten that clue that the HDTV Blunder was in trouble when they announced it in February and it took until August to get it on the shelf.

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post #648 of 4139 Old 09-11-2004, 06:20 PM
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OK, I am now back in the HDTV Wonder game. I was heartened by reading here that the new drivers were fixing problems, so even though I had returned my card to ShopATI, I decided to buy it again when Fry's marked it down to $179.00. I figured I had another month to play with it before making a final decision.

Installation was a nightmare as all have discovered; I was not able to get the device to work properly on a relatively clean SP2 installation with nothing but WMP 10, .net framework, and WinDVD platinum installed. What I did is what everyone has suggested; I installed only the downloaded new drivers using the CD only to validate the DVD decoder install. DTV worked fine, but I could not get the analog TV app to launch at all. This was important for me since I feed my SDV Dish Network satellite feed into the HDTV Wonder via the S-video jack.

So I went for a brand new install of slipstreamed SP1, installed WMP 10, WME 9.0, and directX 9.0c. I then installed the downloaded software again, exactly as above, and this time, it was a charm. I now have this working with almost NO stutter in video, and perfect DD sound through my SPDIF out on the motherboard sound. I can't believe how much better this works with the new drivers than was my experience with the exact same hardware with the version 1.0 drivers and apps.

I will be testing an unattending recording of a DTV program tomorrow, but today I actually enjoyed watching some digital TV...

The software still needs work, but based on the quantum leap in improved performance between the initial and the first update of the software, I must say I am becoming optimistic. There is still nothing else available at retail in the USA that can touch the features of this OTA high-definition recording system. I must say, my hat's off to ATI.

Now for those of you waiting to hear from ATI "customer care", I would suggest you forget about it. The AVS Forum is by far your best bet for advice on how to get this thing working. Their customer service is worse than a joke...
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post #649 of 4139 Old 09-11-2004, 09:52 PM
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This Newbie has fought his way through this entire thread. I am impressed by the tenacity of many people in this forum. However, I would very much prefer to limit the amount of frustration required to set up an HD-HTPC.

Thus I ask, Is the ATI HDTV Wonder worth the grief? My overall impression is that the card itself is good, the antenna is close to junk, the software is not yet ready to be called beta, and the support is bad enough to get nVIDIA customers for life.

Like one of the other contributors to this thread, I'm also building a Shuttle SFF PC as my HTPC, an approach which limits me to one PCI slot and to too little internal room to consider anything that requires a daughter card.

Thus I'm on the fence between the FusionHDTV 3 Gold and the ATI. My current plans are to keep my digital cable and feed it to the HTPC through the firewire approach detailed in another AVS forum (leaving me at the mercy of every cable box firmware upgrade) and/or, if I buy the Fusion product, via its QAM input capability for non-encrypted signals.

One other question, please. A comment in a review site stated that the ATI HDTV Wonder ran far better with an Intel processor than an AMD. (This is a compatibility issue, not a processor speed question.) I also notice that the Fusion product's test software does not have AMD options. Anything to that?
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post #650 of 4139 Old 09-12-2004, 07:40 AM
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I have good result, I think we should encourage people who has good result to post more input.
I have a 3 yrs old sony 1.6 G VAIO desk top, onboard sound , ATI 9600 card w 256 meg ram, 500 meg of DDR ram on the pc..
I am using channel master antenna mount in the attic, this bad boy pull in more distant station than my HDTIVO .
I do have to update drivers from ATI, direct x 9 , does not install properly, and WDM vid capture .inf were not installed properly according to the PC test. All of the HD DMA need to be enabled. But the setup works just fine.
Now, I am sitting here and making a bunch of PBS HD programs for my collection, I could get my laptop to play the raw mpeg2 export and the PQ is unbelievable. My lap top is a 3.0 P4, toshiba 17 " wide screen.

In short , I am very happy with the card, the ability to record HDTV for $180, you cannot beat it.
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post #651 of 4139 Old 09-12-2004, 08:00 AM
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Crabby Guy said:

--However, I would very much prefer to limit the amount of frustration required to set up an HD-HTPC.--
. . .
--My current plans are to keep my digital cable and feed it to the HTPC through the firewire approach detailed in another AVS forum (leaving me at the mercy of every cable box firmware upgrade) and/or, if I buy the Fusion product, via its QAM input capability for non-encrypted signals.--

Both of which are classic exercises in frustration. The major problem is not the hardware or the crummy drivers, it is your cable company . . . they really don't want you to do what you want to do and one minor change on their end blows up what ever you are doing on your end.

Most people that are happy with their HDTV experiences are people like docchak and me, who have large outdoor antennas pointed in the right direction.

Some people who have their antenna in the attic like docchak does have trouble and I think it is because the antenna is pointed wrong. So they put an amp on, but amplifying nothing = nothing.
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post #652 of 4139 Old 09-12-2004, 08:09 AM
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Yeah but, read my list of problems four posts up. I didn't say it crashes regularly when I try to change settings while viewing my PBS station. And the HDTV Blunder can't get video from Fox OTA 'cause they changed a setting. Do set top boxes have this problem? My guess is it's software (educated guess from years of work with software engineers). HDTV Blunder is headed for a fantastic market failure. I have spent way too much time trying to get it to work on my system and I (like most in this forum) am way above the tolerance level of the average user.

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post #653 of 4139 Old 09-12-2004, 09:42 AM
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NO STUTTERING (or studdering, whatever).

Just built a new AMD FX-64 system with 9800 Pro. Catalyst 4.9 + MMC 9.03. The ATI website doesn't say anything about 9.03, but when I downloaded the decoder yesterday, that's what it pulled.

It's a beautiful picture. Now if I could just pick up some PBS stations....I live in the middle of DC, only 2-3 miles from the towers, but no clear LOS.

V.
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post #654 of 4139 Old 09-12-2004, 11:26 AM
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--HDTV Blunder is headed for a fantastic market failure. I have spent way too much time trying to get it to work on my system and I (like most in this forum) am way above the tolerance level of the average user.--

I have yet to see a new tuner from ATI that wasn't released half-baked. None of them have sunk the company . . . nee, there are people that after knashing their teeth for over a year, decide to buy the next new card thinking that will "fix" the problem. And there are others that regurlarly dispense this swell advice as well eg: "Give up on that old one and get the new one, it is sooo. kewl!!"

I don't understand it. Last night, I discovered that "something" had changed and now I am wrestling with a dumb old 7500 video card. It used to play DVD's and now it freezes.

The only reason I jumped in was that Crabby Guy was setting himself up for a fall of spectacular proportions in thinking that QAM would save him. I have a Fusion II card and brother was it half baked when I got it over a year ago even for OTA. It works much better now, but I still won't show it to my wife, just like when I showed my wife MMC and the Hauppauge Win32 programs and she thumbed them down.

New BDA drivers were released last week and that means it could maybe someday work with ShowShifter. ShowShifter is simple enough for my wife to run. She gives that a thumbs up, but the geeky people hate it.

--And the HDTV Blunder can't get video from Fox OTA 'cause they changed a setting.--

I dunno what that is all about ( I read your post). I am using the Fusion II and I am watching the NFL at 720p 4x3 with grey pillars. My local Fox station used to be at 480i(?) 4x3 I think.
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post #655 of 4139 Old 09-12-2004, 11:54 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by e vey
I have a Fusion II card and brother was it half baked when I got it over a year ago even for OTA. It works much better now, but I still won't show it to my wife, just like when I showed my wife MMC and the Hauppauge Win32 programs and she thumbed them down.

New BDA drivers were released last week and that means it could maybe someday work with ShowShifter. ShowShifter is simple enough for my wife to run. She gives that a thumbs up, but the geeky people hate it.

That's why I said HDTV Blunder is going to fail in the market place unless they fix it and fix it fast. ATI can't make money on this card if they don't get the main stream user to accept it. Us geeks are willing to put up with some work arounds, but the regular user won't.

By the way, anybody got any advice on my problems? I've tried everything I can think of including trying the silly thing in every PC slot I have. Still no joy.

Reynolds:"Not much faith in plan A?"
O'Neill:"Since when has plan A ever worked?"

Stargate SG-1, episode 143, "Evolution"

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post #656 of 4139 Old 09-12-2004, 03:32 PM
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I sincerely appreciate the advice. Although I'm within my legal rights putting an antenna on my townhouse's roof, I would rather not get a knock-down, drag-out fight with my homeowners' association going unless really necessary.

I believe I am left with buying D* and a first-generation $1000 Tivo (someone else fought the battle on dishes on the roof and won) or trying the antenna-in-the-attic trick for OTA. Thus a few more questions, please.

1. Does the D* - HDTV TiVo combination work properly because the same company is somehow involved on both ends? If so, will an HDTV Tivo every work properly without the signal provider being responsible for recording quality? Or does the TiVo have some quality that a PC cannot emulate?

2. Does anyone have an range of dB signal loss from placing an antenna in an attic in a wood-framed home vs. just the other side of the roof? Should't an excellent, large, UHF antenna make up for such loss?

Thanks again.
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post #657 of 4139 Old 09-12-2004, 03:45 PM
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--Although I'm within my legal rights putting an antenna on my townhouse's roof--

There is an alternative. Radio Shack (really) makes a darn good antenna that could make everybody happy.

http://www.radioshack.com/product.as...5Fid=15%2D1634
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post #658 of 4139 Old 09-12-2004, 04:20 PM
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Would this Radio Shack product be better than a directional antenna in the attic?
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post #659 of 4139 Old 09-12-2004, 06:03 PM
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Depends on what direction that antenna in the attic points. Which way does the house point?

The RS model has a rotator + an amplifier inside the dome. I have seen it work well out to 45 or so miles.

Since I have noticed that my big outdoor directional antenna has problems with digital signals if it is only ten degrees off, having a rotator inside would be a plus.
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post #660 of 4139 Old 09-12-2004, 11:40 PM
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Watched Jack & Bobby tonight on the WB in HD. It was 1080i but they broadcast it in letterbox. This caused the picture to have bars on top and bottom. Other times in the day, I watched shows with bars on the right and left.

Is there a way to tell the source (in this case HDTV Wonder), to always full screen the picture? I was able to do that with my previous HD receiver (a Panasonic HD20).

Any ideas?

Thanks!
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