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post #361 of 2239 Old 11-10-2004, 12:32 PM
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Stripping the subchannels and outputting 615MB pieces at the same time (they burn better to DVDR)

I believe you may have mentioned this before, but what makes 615MB so special for DVD burning?

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post #362 of 2239 Old 11-10-2004, 12:33 PM
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Cris, I haven't tried a release since 1.10. At that time, editing commercials resulted in major glitches and long pauses at the break points when playing back on a MyHD MDP-100. Is this still the case?

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post #363 of 2239 Old 11-10-2004, 12:40 PM
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Xesdeeni--

AFAICT, with the current H2 version playback on both MDP cards is as smooth as you can achieve when editing only on I-frame boundaries. I.e., it's plenty good enough for excising commercials.
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post #364 of 2239 Old 11-10-2004, 12:42 PM
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Great! I have both parts of LOTR just waiting to be edited and archived to DVDR. Can we still get the beta?

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post #365 of 2239 Old 11-10-2004, 12:46 PM
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Xesdeeni,

The editing in H2 still isn't perfect. I'm currently working on improving the editing to get rid of audio burbs and what not, but its going to take a while. Hopefully v1.12.

If you need perfect editing, H2 isn't for you.

PS. If you want to try the Beta, PM me your address.

Cris

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post #366 of 2239 Old 11-10-2004, 01:31 PM
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I have used the beta several times. I was hoping that the new sub-channel and null-packet stripping with PAT/PMT fixup would resolve the MyHD "Long Pause" bug, but it hasn't. Every Alias capture that I've tried to strip still has this problem. However, every other program that I've processed has been great. Most of the stations around me multicast, so integrated stripping is great.

One UI suggestion: Make the pulldown lists show all the contents (or at least a few lines) instead of just one with scrolling buttons. This would be especially useful for the PID pulldown.

On file splitting for DVD burning... I use 1492MB in H2. That gives me an even number of files (3 files) per DVD and they're less than 2GB, just in case they ever need to be copied to a filesystem that has that limitation.

I think it's worthwhile to make a public release that has the stripping integrated but doesn't have the fixed up edit cuts.

- Mike
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post #367 of 2239 Old 11-10-2004, 01:39 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by miimura
One UI suggestion: Make the pulldown lists show all the contents (or at least a few lines) instead of just one with scrolling buttons. This would be especially useful for the PID pulldown.

You are probably seing only one line because you did not unpack the HDTVTOMPEG2.exe.manifest file.

If this file is present at the same location than HDTVTOMPEG2.exe, you'll see all the lines.

At least, that's what happens on my system...

Robert
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post #368 of 2239 Old 11-10-2004, 01:46 PM
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Thanks, I'll try that.

- Mike
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post #369 of 2239 Old 11-10-2004, 01:47 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by Cris Moore
The editing in H2 still isn't perfect. I'm currently working on improving the editing to get rid of audio burbs and what not, but its going to take a while. Hopefully v1.12.

So if I edit out video from the first I-frame after a commercial begins, to the last I-frame before the program begins again, what symptoms will I see/hear?
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If you need perfect editing, H2 isn't for you.

No need for perfect. I just want to save some space on the DVDs by editing out commercials. If there is a bit of commercial, that's OK for now. When I pull the archives back onto an HD-DVD in a year or two, then I'd like to be able to trim a bit better.

BTW, I use 2222MB per file. That allows me to put 2 files on a DVDR, allows me to delete pieces of programs in 15-16 minute increments on my HTPC (I record all 3 hours of prime time on Sunday night to be sure to get Cold Case, and then delete the files before and after the football game delayed show), and I can process the files on my WinME (FAT32) machine.

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post #370 of 2239 Old 11-10-2004, 01:55 PM
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"I was hoping that the new sub-channel and null-packet stripping with PAT/PMT fixup would resolve the MyHD "Long Pause" bug, but it hasn't."

If anyone knows what causes this and how to fix it I would like to know.

Also what causes FF\\REW to stop working after removing NULL packets for some streams and how to fix it.

Cris

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post #371 of 2239 Old 11-10-2004, 02:17 PM
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thanx for the beta.

there seems to be some issues when using H2 with accessDTV.ts streams. these are preliminary results and i plan of further testing later this evening.

i used H2 to edit and strip a file that plays well before processing. after processing with H2 audio sync is way off and video frequently breaks up. video 'loops' a few seconds every now and then. audio frequently drops out completely for several seconds at a time. audio also is occasionaly off pitch. (higher/faster)

if i keep the same edit points and check all the streams (no stripping) before processing with H2, i do not see any video problems in the output file. audio initially seems to be in sync but seems to drift as the file plays. hitting pause/play seems to get audio playback back in sync but the drift seems to continue.

i will do further testing later this evening.

fyi, v1.10.6 seems to work fine on splitting and editing of accessDTV.ts streams. i have not observed any issues except the known issue of losing audio if the edit points are too close to the end of the video.

later
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post #372 of 2239 Old 11-10-2004, 02:21 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by miimura
Every Alias capture that I've tried to strip still has {the long pause} problem. However, every other program that I've processed has been great.

Mike, that's very strange indeed--especially since our CBS channel doesn't even multicast. Several other shows on CBS do not exhibit that problem, AFAIK, but I've not captured an Alias episode for quite a while. Have you confirmed that it does not show up if you do not strip null packets?
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post #373 of 2239 Old 11-10-2004, 02:30 PM
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Quote:


So if I edit out video from the first I-frame after a commercial begins, to the last I-frame before the program begins again, what symptoms will I see/hear?

If you're looking to save space and edit again later with a better tool I would suggest this...

For Include cuts:
Cut a number of frames BEFORE the I-frame you're interested in (5-10 frames or so). For Include cuts, the extra audio that is included exists AFTER the I-frame you wanted as the audio always trails the video. These extra audio frames AFTER the I-frame you selected cause the little audio burps and need to be removed during the translation.

For Exclude cuts:
Cut PAST the I-frame you really want to keep (5-10 frames or so). For Exclude cuts, again the audio you want to keep is AFTER the I-frame you selected. Currently H2 hacks it off and the audio ends abruptly. What needs to happen here is for H2 to continue pass the selected I-frame just enough to include the audio and removed any video frames it encounters while it gets the last few audio frames that belong to the video before your selected I-frame.

If you leave 5-10 I-frames before and after when doing your cuts, you should be able to re-cut again later as this will make sure that you haven't thrown out anything important.

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post #374 of 2239 Old 11-10-2004, 02:47 PM
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parkay,

Does the accessDTV card require a constant bitrate 19.xMbs file to work correctly?

If this is so you are screwed in using H2 v1.11 as you will end up with a VBR file EVEN if you select to include the NULL packets and select all of the PIDs because H2 v1.11 is still removing PIDs that I don't list like SST, RRT, EIT, and EET packets. In order for H2 v1.11 to work for accessDTV cards it would have to insert NULL packets in order to maintain the proper bit rate.

That wasn't a feature I had on my list.

H2 v1.10.6 of course didn't throw anything away or make any changes to the transport stream like v1.11 is doing.

What about running TStoATSC on the resulting ts file to create a CBR file again?

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post #375 of 2239 Old 11-10-2004, 02:57 PM
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Alias is ABC...

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post #376 of 2239 Old 11-10-2004, 03:06 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by Cris Moore
parkay,

Does the accessDTV card require a constant bitrate 19.xMbs file to work correctly?

I'm not parkay, but I think I'm qualified to answer this . Yes, we expect a constant 19.xMbs bitrate to work correctly. Without that, the time slider will be screwed up and (more importantly) playback is likely to be screwed up. I don't see this changing because it would likely require work in the drivers which is our biggest limiting factor in working on the accessDTV project - not because we don't have the source code, but because we don't have strong driver experience on the team.

Quote:


If this is so you are screwed in using H2 v1.11 as you will end up with a VBR file EVEN if you select to include the NULL packets and select all of the PIDs because H2 v1.11 is still removing PIDs that I don't list like, SST, RRT, EIT, and EET packets. In order for H2 v1.11 to work for accessDTV cards it would have to insert NULL packets in order to maintain the proper bit rate.

That wasn't a feature I had on my list.

H2 v1.10.6 of course didn't throw anything away or make any changes to the transport stream like v1.11 is doing.

What about running TStoATSC on the resulting ts file to create a CBR file again?

My transport stream knowledge is on the weak side - what are all these packets that you're throwing away and do you have a recommendation on a concise document that clearly explains the structure of transport streams, the various packet types, etc.?

I suspect that running it through a tool that creates a CBR file would solve the problem.
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post #377 of 2239 Old 11-10-2004, 03:11 PM
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Don't know if anyone's mentioned this before or if it's just something I don't know how to do...one feature I'd love to see added to this software is the ability to change the sequence of the files being edited. For example, once in while I have .ts files with different names or on different drives that I want to compile and edit with HDTVtoMPEG2. As best I can tell, the software only loads the files in alpha-numeric order, so that all files on C: are loaded into the editor before files on D: etc. Changing the order in which I add the files doesn't help, HDTVtoMPEG2 just resequences them alphanumerically. Workaround is I have to either rename the files (no big deal) or move the files onto the same drive or make sure the first files are on the first drive, which is a bit of a PITA.

Other than that, I love this program. I'm using v1.10.5, but would love to check out the beta (PM pending, Cris). I record the streams with AccessDTV, and output 4464MB files (most I can fit onto a DVD-R) using the MYHD filename format (for TT2.0 compatability). My edited .ts files play beautifully from AccessDTV and TT2.0 with no pauses between files or apparent audio sync problems. The occasional burp at edit points doesn't really bother me, I'm just happy to get rid of the GD (gosh darn) commercials.

-Steve
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post #378 of 2239 Old 11-10-2004, 03:21 PM
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Originally posted by gsr
but I think I'm qualified to answer this .

you were the one i was going to try to get the answer from.

thanx
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post #379 of 2239 Old 11-10-2004, 03:23 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by Cris Moore
What about running TStoATSC on the resulting ts file to create a CBR file again?

i'll give it a shot and get back to you.

thanx
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post #380 of 2239 Old 11-10-2004, 03:36 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by Cris Moore
Alias is ABC...

Shows ya how long it's been.

Well...NYPD Blue seems to play jus' fine--and Mike did say that "all" others he's tried have not had the long pause. (I don't know about FF/RW, since I don't need 'em after I've bleeped the commercials ) I have seen a long pause on some stripped SD subchannels from KQED (PBS) but it's not there with every one and I haven't figured out any system to it.
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post #381 of 2239 Old 11-10-2004, 03:56 PM
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Quote:


what are all these packets that you're throwing away and do you have a recommendation on a concise document that clearly explains the structure of transport streams, the various packet types, etc.?

The packets I mentioned, (RRT)Rating Region Table, EIT(Event Information Table), EET(Extended Text Table), and VCT(Virtual Channel Table) are defined in the MGT(Master Guide Table) except for the SST(System Time Table). Most if not all of this information is useless when archiving. Selecting to throw out PSIP data in H2 will discard all of these packets.

A good book is:
Data Broadcasting - Understanding the ATSC Data Broadcast Standard.

Then there are the ATSC Standards documentation:
ISO/IEC 13818-1 - Systems
ISO/IEC 13818-2 - Video
ISO/IEC 13818-3 - Audio
Doc A/65B - PSIP for Terrestrial Broadcast and Cable

Cris

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post #382 of 2239 Old 11-10-2004, 03:59 PM
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I have a MyHD and don't have the pause some of you are describing on nullpacketstripped TS files. I cannot start playback from simply double-clicking on the editted TS files though. If I try that I get a popup error that says "Error: Failed to read packet!!".

I completely uninstalled and reinstalled the MyHD software (various beta versions I had been trying). The windows registry was cleaned of everything for MyHD. I continue to have the error message.

But luckily for me, I just start MyHD watching a local OTA station and drag in my nullpacketstripped TS file and it plays right away and beautifully. Perhaps I get no pause when I drop the file in the MyHD app cause my PC has the odd issue of not being able to start playback on nullpacketstripped TS files by double-clicking them.
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post #383 of 2239 Old 11-10-2004, 04:01 PM
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Originally posted by TPeterson
Shows ya how long it's been.

Well...NYPD Blue seems to play jus' fine--and Mike did say that "all" others he's tried have not had the long pause. (I don't know about FF/RW, since I don't need 'em after I've bleeped the commercials ) I have seen a long pause on some stripped SD subchannels from KQED (PBS) but it's not there with every one and I haven't figured out any system to it.

My Alias captures are from KGO (ABC in SF). They have, at various times, had 2 or 3 subchannels total. All of these Alias recordings play fine if you don't modify them. Stripping only nulls or stripping only unwanted sub-channels or both, all yield the "Long Pause" problem. This was especially a problem for me since they were stored on a media server. "Long" takes on new meaning when you're pulling 8GB through a 100Mbit net.

I also record and keep Smart Travels from KQED (PBS in SF). I've stripped them all and I've never had the Long Pause problem with those. However, they're from KQED's 1HD+1SD broadcast configuration. I've never intentionally recorded anything from KQED in the 4SD (daytime) configuration.

I did see the Long Pause problem on one other program from another channel (non-KGO) but now I can't remember what it was. I've never seen the FF/REW problem that wasn't fixable by trimming the first few seconds off the program.

After reading Cris' post above about removing the other non-program packets, I think maybe we should try keeping them.... Hmmm, maybe not. I used to use NPS and used to keep all the PIDs except the unwanted subs and nulls. For example, strip 0x20, 0x21, 0x24, 0x1fff and keep the rest. The way Cris has it set up in the beta, I think I end up keeping 0x10, 0x11, 0x14 and losing the rest. However, I haven't run it through NPS to get a packet count by PID after running it through 1.11 beta. I should probably do that...

Enough rambling...

- Mike
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post #384 of 2239 Old 11-10-2004, 04:01 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by Cris Moore


The editing in H2 still isn't perfect. I'm currently working on improving the editing to get rid of audio burbs and what not, but its going to take a while. Hopefully v1.12.

Cris

Cris,

First, thanks for H2! Very useful!

I'd like to try the beta, and I will PM my address. I was just wondering, is the "audio burbs" that you mentioned characterized by either screeching sounds, or sections where the audio level drops? Just so I know what to call it.

NGage
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post #385 of 2239 Old 11-10-2004, 04:15 PM
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NGage,

The audio burps can take many forms and very depending on the audio and the point you do the cut at. Most of the time is hardly noticable and harmless, but every once in a while you can get a very nasty LOUD burp that will scare the crap out of you. If you want to be safe, you should prescreen your cut transport streams on your computer speakers before playing it back on your expensive system. Wouldn't want to blow out any speakers would we.

Cris

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post #386 of 2239 Old 11-10-2004, 04:19 PM
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Any chance of a feature that would save all the includes after doing a scan to seperate sequentially numbered files.
THats something Id love to have as a feature rather than a manual process. It's easier on audio syncing if I convert the in between commercials seperately and then combine them later.

Learn from the mistakes of others, you'll never live long enough to make them all yourself.
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post #387 of 2239 Old 11-10-2004, 04:37 PM
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Quote:


Any chance of a feature that would save all the includes after doing a scan to seperate sequentially numbered files.

The chances are pretty low at the moment for a couple of reasons.

To implement this feature I would have to rip out all of the code I put in for creating the .TRI file that contains the reloadable Include\\Exclude data in order to incorporate it. I don't really want to do that.

IF I can get the improved editing\\cutting feature working properly the resulting TS file shouldn't have any audio sync problems and you won't need to do this anymore.

Perhaps you could create a small tool or app that read the .TRI file and create the individual files you need?

Cris

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post #388 of 2239 Old 11-10-2004, 06:06 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by Cris Moore
What about running TStoATSC on the resulting ts file to create a CBR file again?

that does seem to make the file playable again, but it also defeats the packet stripping and makes the file large again. not what i was hoping for but i can see that it is a limitation of my hardware driver.

looks like i wil be using v1.10.6 for the time being.

thanx
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post #389 of 2239 Old 11-10-2004, 06:27 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by Cris Moore
Perhaps you could create a small tool or app that read the .TRI file and create the individual files you need?
Cris

Well, thanks for thinking about it any way. I'll check out your reading suggestions and see if my limited programing skills can do that. I've been wanting to get a better understanding of the packets and all anyway.

Learn from the mistakes of others, you'll never live long enough to make them all yourself.
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post #390 of 2239 Old 11-10-2004, 06:42 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by parkay
that does seem to make the file playable again, but it also defeats the packet stripping and makes the file large again. not what i was hoping for but i can see that it is a limitation of my hardware driver.

looks like i wil be using v1.10.6 for the time being.

thanx

It would seem like a reasonable compromise though - you get rid of the commercials (saving space), have a playable file (which is good), and have the improved features and bug fixes in the newer version of HDTVtoMPEG2.

It would definitely be nice though to have an option in HDTVtoMPEG2 that would not throw away the extra packets.
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