Sanyo HT30744 Widescreen HDTV -- Adjusting Overscan with Powerstrip - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 90 Old 06-20-2004, 12:51 PM - Thread Starter
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I wish to report that I have, at last, succeeded in getting my HTPC to display something -- anything -- on my Sanyo 30" widescreen HDTV. I am using an ATI Radeon All-In-Wonder 9000 Pro video card with a DVI port and a DVI-to-HDMI cable. So far, the only timings that I can get to work are:

PowerStrip timing parameters:
1280x720=1280,80,40,248,720,5,5,20,74250,2310

Generic timing details for 1280x720:
HFP=80 HSW=40 HBP=248 kHz=45 VFP=5 VSW=5 VBP=20 Hz=60

Linux modeline parameters:
"1280x720" 74.250 1280 1360 1400 1648 720 725 730 750 -hsync -vsync


I am experiencing some overscan (I think). Running Windows XP Pro and with Internet Explorer 6 maximized, I lose:

-- about half the width of the title bar of IE at the top
-- about 2/3 of the task bar at the bottom
-- in this forum, everything left of the "V" in the "AV Science" logo at the top of this forum window and about an equal amount from the right

If I try to use the Advanced Timing Options screen tools to shrink the screen width (by clicking on the size and position arrows), I immediately lose my picture and the Sanyo displays a no-signal screen saveer. I'm still pretty new to this, so maybe I am missing something obvious, but how do I get rid of the overscan without going into a configuration which my TV won't accept?

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post #2 of 90 Old 06-21-2004, 01:32 PM
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I'm new to this too, so forgive me if this is a dumb question. Have you calibrated the TV for overscan?? I suspect that the TV settings have some overscan built in (most have about 5% set from the factory). You are trying to correct the problem with the wrong piece of hardware.

Now there may be a way to reduce the overall size of the screen when displaying the HTPC signal, but that would just be compensating for the overscan, not doing away with it.

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post #3 of 90 Old 06-21-2004, 02:18 PM - Thread Starter
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You couldn't be anymore of a noob than me. Hell, I can hardly spell HDTV. :(

No, I have not tried to calebrate the tv. I'm scared of the service menu, but I today ordered a copy of the Service Manual (not owners manual) from the tv manufacturer so that I can use the service menu (which is written in Sanskrit and accepts values in a combination of Greek and Hex) to try to adjust the overscan in just the HDMI mode.

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post #4 of 90 Old 06-23-2004, 07:01 AM
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I used the 4.6 Catalyst drivers, and I was able to get an image at 1280x720 without using powerstrip. I seem to be getting the same overscan that you are getting.

I'm using an ATI Radeon AIW.

The ATI X300 card has this information in it's description.
"Integrated 165 MHz TMDS transmitter (DVI 1.0 / HDMI compliant and HDCP ready)"
Does this mean it might be able to output a video signal that will not have overscan problems?
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post #5 of 90 Old 06-23-2004, 07:21 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally posted by GRIFFIN1
The ATI X300 card has this information in it's description.
"Integrated 165 MHz TMDS transmitter (DVI 1.0 / HDMI compliant and HDCP ready)"
Does this mean it might be able to output a video signal that will not have overscan problems?
I don't know enough to say, one way or the other. I ordered the "service manual" (not owners manual) from the manufacturer of my HDTV and it is supposed to tell me how to adjust the tv for overscan (and 150 other things) on a mode-by-mode basis. Supposedly, I will be able to adjust the tv for overscan in the HDMI mode separately from the other modes (analog RF, digital RF, video1, video2, component2, component3). It was suggested to me in another thread that adjusting for overscan on the display unit is more desireable than trying to trick the video card. The manual should come in today and I hope to go that route.

BTW, I am finding that 1080i mode is a much bigger desktop than I want and 720p is smaller. The fonts are hard to read (from my chair 12 feet away) at 1080, but the screen is pretty cramped at 720. I'm not aware of any resolution in between that my tv will support, so I guess I'll need to find one that I like and use it. I think that I'll go with 1080i. I can get skins for Windows Media Player that make it easier to read. I just wish that the knuckleheads at Real would make Rhapsody skinable.

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post #6 of 90 Old 06-24-2004, 08:13 PM
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Anything good in the service manual?
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post #7 of 90 Old 08-09-2004, 07:44 PM
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graystrickland: How did you get 1080i with your HTPC. You mentioned how the desktop is bigger than you want. I want that desktop. Please give me settings for 1080i as well if you can get them for PowerStrip. Thanks!
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post #8 of 90 Old 09-23-2004, 08:51 AM
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so when you guys hook your HTPC to the Sanyo and play dvds at 1080i does it look a lot better than a regular dvd player hooked up to the tv?

thanks!
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post #9 of 90 Old 10-13-2004, 05:01 AM
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This thread seems to have died off. Can others confirm success using this set with an HTPC, either through compononent or DVI>HDMI? If so, can you share a little about your setup (vid. card / cabling / Powerstrip settings)?

Thanks in advance.
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post #10 of 90 Old 10-13-2004, 12:33 PM
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I don't use my HTPC on this TV because there is too much overscan. I was using a DVI->HDMI cable with an old radeon AIW. I'm going to try a new radeon card the next time I upgrade.
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post #11 of 90 Old 10-13-2004, 12:40 PM
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You can use the Radeon Catalyst 4.9 drivers to create a 'resolution within a resolution' that eliminates overscan - but I think you have to use the ATI DVI - Component adapter. Otherwise when using DVI-HDMI I have had no luck creating custom resolutions with powerstrip that eliminate overscan.
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post #12 of 90 Old 11-01-2004, 05:23 PM
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I'm currently trying to make an ATI 9600 work using a DVI > HDMI adapter. I have no exp. with powerstrip, so the going is pretty slow right now. I'll post with any results, and any tips are appreciated.
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post #13 of 90 Old 11-02-2004, 08:27 AM
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I did what you are trying for a while (DVI-HDMI adapter). The only way I could get it to work was to use the 'force 720p' setting in the 'display properties' "advanced' 'display' 'troubleshooting' (not sure if this is the exact correct reference. Then I could get display - otherwise nothing.

If you come up with some powerstrip resolutions that work please let me know.
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post #14 of 90 Old 11-02-2004, 08:36 AM
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I've got a thread on the powerstrip forums right now to see what I can come up with. The problem is that I have no exp. with powerstrip what-so-ever. I can get some resolutions working, but nothing that would be actually usuable. The 'force 720p' option creates a really bad flickering display. 'Force 1080i' creates a huge resolution with large amounts of overscan.

I'm thinking I may just have to break down and get the ATI adapter. I probably won't be able to work on it tonight (gotta make sure my man wins tonight!), but I'll be working on it for the rest of the week and weekend.

On a side note: the onboard S-Video out (GeForceMX 2)on the Shuttle is far and away better than ATIs. I ended up pulling the card out it was so bad.
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post #15 of 90 Old 11-03-2004, 09:17 PM
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Let me start by saying that I have no clue what I'm talking about... I'm just now starting to get my feet wet in this type of thing. Alot of people are talking about 1280x720 resolutions, I assume 45kHz Horizontal and 60Hz Vertical refresh rates (720p), but this is a 1080i display. Has anyone tried 1920x1080 @ 33.75kHz Horiz. 30Hz Vert (1080i)??
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post #16 of 90 Old 11-13-2004, 02:18 PM
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If you check box the 'Force 1080i' in the ATI settings, it'll put it at that resolution. I get HUGE amounts of overscan that way, and the computer slows to a crawl.

There's a new new version of Powerstrip out (beta) (but I can't link to it since I don't have 5 posts...look on the Powerstip forums to find it) that I'm using. It's got a graphic thingee to try to get a non-overscanned resolution, but it's still pretty much guesswork. I'm using Meedio as a front-end, so I used the built in overscan adjustments to get a good picture. Still not perfect by any means. The display just looks 'squished'.

I was only able to get a picture at 1280x720 and 720x480, and both had a bunch of overscan.

graystrickland: did you come up with anything from the service manual? An input by input adjustments sounds like exactly what I need.
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post #17 of 90 Old 11-14-2004, 06:37 AM
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I am a bit of a novice in configuring overscan etc. I happen to think my 65" Hitachi Ultravision has factory overscan problems (STB DVD Player menus seem to not fit the screen). I am a bit nervous to go changing service settings.

Does anyone have any info on the Ultravision service menu? Is it possible to reset the set to factory defaults after service menu tweaks?

It would be nice and perhaps wishful thinking to be able to bypass powerstrip and adjust via the set. Fortunately, I have a 6800 GT so the driver has some builit HDTV support. Hopefully, I am not getting away from the point of this thread.

Any feedback would be appreciated.

Thanks,

moltensilver
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post #18 of 90 Old 12-06-2004, 06:54 AM
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FWIW, and for those still struggling to use this TV as an HTPC, after much trial and error I've managed to establish a workable setup that essentially matches that which is achieved by following the instructions found here:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...0&pagenumber=1

Key points are you must have a good Radeon card (8500 or above), you must buy ATI's component adapter, you must have at least 4.10 Catalyst drivers installed, and you must select "Optimize Resolution" within Display Properties>Settings>Advanced>Displays>Component Output ("YPbPr") in order to correct for overscan.

The resolution I use for my Desktop is 1280 x 720 but after Optimizing Resolution I get 1152 x 648. So far I have found 1920 x 1080 to be unworkable.

There may be other ways to achieve a good picture on this tube, but I figured some might benefit from hearing about at least one the achieves negligible overscan.

(FYI - as far as I know, the method found in the link above should work on any HDTV).
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post #19 of 90 Old 12-06-2004, 07:31 AM
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I might as well update this thread.

I bought the component adapter from ATI and was drastically disappointed with the quality output as compared to the DVI>HDMI method. I did obtain a better resolution (the aformentioned 1152x648) with minimal overscan, but the picture was horribly wavy.

So I went back to the DVI>HMDI method. 1280x720, lots of overscan (corrected within Meedio), beautiful, crisp picture. I'm still working with Powerstrip to find a better 'res-within-a-res'.
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post #20 of 90 Old 12-06-2004, 07:54 AM
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Thanks for the update, ECEC -- glad I'm not the only one getting a wavy picture with the component adapter (and by wavy I assume you mean some sweeping horizontal scan lines and blurry text?). I thought my card was defective and decided just to live with it, given that it's the only somewhat workable solution I've been able to achieve.

In any case, please do update the thread if and when you find a way to correct the overscan with Powerstrip. Thanks.
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post #21 of 90 Old 12-09-2004, 06:37 AM
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I took the simpler option, I think. I hooked a computer up via HDMI. As with everyone else, I experienced a lot of overscan. What I ended up doing was setting everything for 720p and then going into the TV service menu to reduce overscan. There are a lot of references around for how to use the service manual, so I won't duplicate that here. Basically I adjusted:

22A - Digital Full - vertical size
22B - Digital Full - vertical position
22C - Digital Full - horizontal size
22D - Digital Full - horizontal position

It quickly corrects the overscan without messing around with the PC settings. I am still left with some shape problems, meaning I don't have a perfect rectangle. There are more settings to play around with but I haven't bothered yet. I will at least leave this as a starting point and maybe someone will improve the suggestions.
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post #22 of 90 Old 12-09-2004, 06:49 AM
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Pardon the ignorant question, but do those tweaks change the settings for all inputs or just the HDMI?

Also, if you have a quick link handy to any of those service manual references, I'd be much obliged...
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post #23 of 90 Old 12-09-2004, 08:46 AM
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Very interesting indeed. A couple of quick questions, if you don't mind:

Ignoring the shape issues, does the image 'squeeze' together?

What do you mean when you say 'set everything for 720p'?

Thanks!

Also, are you using the 30" or the 32"?
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post #24 of 90 Old 12-09-2004, 08:53 AM
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If those settings only affected the HDMI input then this would be very valuable to many HTPC + HD Sanyo owners. More info, please!

Thanks,
jawgee
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post #25 of 90 Old 12-09-2004, 09:18 AM
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Double post! I'm a genius! :rolleyes:
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post #26 of 90 Old 12-09-2004, 04:14 PM
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Lots of questions:

Which TV? Mine is 30"

Where is the service manual? http://hinome.net/images/sanyo.pdf

Are the changes for HDMI only? Yes, as far as I can tell. If you look at pages
9-10 in the service manual, you will find that you can adjust the size and position of almost every indivdual "mode", like 1080i in zoom, or 720p in full. This one is called "Digital", so it seemed like the right thing to try and worked fine.

I have almost zero expertise in this area, just shots in the dark. Feel free to ask more questions, but just don't put too much trust in the answers.

Oh, someone recomended in another post, ALWAYS write down what the setting was for anything you change. That way when you screw it up, you can undo your mistakes.
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post #27 of 90 Old 12-09-2004, 04:18 PM
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Oops, missed some.

Does the image squeeze? Yes, a bit. You are taking the width of the screen that was overscanning and compressing it evenly to fit.

720p everywhere? In my display adapter settings, I picked 1280x720 for the resolution. I also went into my ATI settings for that DVI monitor and told it to force the output to 720p. This was in the Troubleshooting window. In hindsight, I don't think that actually made any difference once I got the resolution set right.
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post #28 of 90 Old 12-09-2004, 11:26 PM
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Thanks for the info, ganymebe. "Digital" could represent HDMI only or the two HD digital tuners or all three inputs. You don't happen to be using your HDTV tuners? If so, did you notice any difference in their resolutions after you made the change in the service menu?

Thanks,
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post #29 of 90 Old 12-10-2004, 06:05 AM
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It does not seem to have any impact on the HDTV tuners., just the HDMI.
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post #30 of 90 Old 12-10-2004, 11:19 AM
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OK, cool. Thanks for checking.

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