Russound CAV6.6 in-wall keypads connected to MC10 - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 131 Old 07-06-2004, 02:35 AM - Thread Starter
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Just in case anyone here is interested in the same thing, I thought I'd post to say that I bought a Russound CAV6.6 6-room 6-zone audio/video system and installed 6 keypads in the walls around my apartment. I then wrote a Windows application to link the CAV6.6 up to J River's Media Center 10. So now I can control MC10 from the in-wall keypads, and the keypads display artist and track names. I use the next/prev buttons on the keypad to go to the next/prev track in the playlist, and use the +/- keypad buttons to go to the next/prev artist in the playlist.

So far it works really well, although I've only had it running for a couple of days now, and I'm sure I'll come up with tons of new ideas over the next few weeks. The CAV6.6 is totally awesome - you can control absolutely everything via its RS-232 port, and you get notified about everything, too. The only real weakness in the system is that the keypads can only show 12 characters at a time. Hopefully they'll come out with newer keypads sometime in the future that can display significantly more text, but for now I'm very happy with the whole setup.

If anyone here is interested in doing the same thing, just post here to let me know and I'd be more than happy to send you a copy of the program and even make modifications to it based on your suggestions.
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post #2 of 131 Old 07-06-2004, 05:21 AM
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I think it's fantastic that you've done this. I'm still in the "purchasing research" phase of looking for a whole house system (we used to call it shopping). Knowing that you've figured out a way to get CAV 6.6 back to MC10 is great news. I had looked at the CAV, but was recently intrigued by the new Yamaha system I saw in the latest Sound & Vision, where you can use in-wall keypads to control your mp3 collection. It sounds like your solution is best of both.

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post #3 of 131 Old 07-06-2004, 05:57 AM - Thread Starter
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If it's the same Yamaha system I looked at a few months ago, then I believe it's a completely closed, proprietary system, which is not what I wanted. What I love about the CAV6.6 is that it's a very open system by the standards of this industry. The RS-232 protocol is documented on their website, so anyone can access it. I've found that many other products either use proprietary ports, or use RS-232 but refuse to give out the protocol documentation.

I am really glad that it all worked out so well, since it's a pretty big investment and AFAIK I am the first to do this, so I was a bit nervous as to whether I might hit a brick wall or two.

As I already wrote, the only limitation with the CAV6.6 is the 12-character display, but I got around that by toggling the display between artist and title, which works fine. There is a firmware update out now which allows you to scroll up to 34 characters of text on the display. Once I get some time I will download that and maybe use that as well. You can link up CAV6.6 controllers and have a 12-room system if you want, so there are no limitations on that front. AFAIK Russound don't allow keypads to be linked, but I have added support for that in software, so that when you adjust the volume in one room, the changes are reflected in another room. Basically anything is possible with Russound's RS-232 protocol.

FYI I am using a combination of Russound SP-H6TT, SP-S5TT, and SP-S6TT in-ceiling speakers, and they are also fantastic. I also have a Revel Ultima home theater, so I know good sound when I hear it, and the SP-H6TTs really are audiophile quality. Where it wasn't possible to install in-ceiling speakers, I went with Jamo on-wall speakers, which are OK but noticeably inferior to the Russound speakers, so I will replace them if and when I can find something better.

One more thing: I bought the speakers from http://www.bass-home.com/ and really wish I'd bought the CAV6.6 from him, too, since I would have saved a fortune. Good service and fantastic prices.
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post #4 of 131 Old 07-06-2004, 05:11 PM
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I would love a copy of your software please.

I have a russound coming very soon and was more than a bit scared of having to figure out the RS232 stuff for it.

Thanks!
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post #5 of 131 Old 07-07-2004, 12:52 AM - Thread Starter
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You have mail. Note the following:

1) The software has no configuration whatsoever, and is hard-coded to use COM port 1. So just plug a 9-pin serial cable into COM1 on the PC, plug the other end into the CAV6.6, start cav66.exe, and you are in business. Note that the CAV6.6 has two RS-232 inputs: one on the front and one on the back. You can use either port, but only one of them is active at once, so make sure that the switch on the front is set appropriately.

2) The software is currently set to reflect everything that happens in zone 2 to zone 3. This is due to the setup at my place. I can make this a configuration option or whatever later, but I'm sure you will have other things you want changed so once you've had a chance to check it out we can make a list and do it all in one hit.

3) Another feature I added yesterday: the digit buttons on the CAV6.6 remote are now mapped such that 0 will take you to the first track in the current playlist, 1 will take you to the 10% mark within the playlist, 2 will take you to 20%, etc. So if you have 100 tracks in the playlist, pressing 5 will take you to track 50. This allows you to quickly navigate through really long playlists in order to find the track you want to hear.

4) You might want to check the firmware versions on your controller and keypads before installing them, and upgrade them if necessary, since I will do this myself soon, and once I do, I'll change the software to use features of the new firmware. It's easier to upgrade the firmware before you install the system.

I'm thinking about adding display of time/date on the keypads today.
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post #6 of 131 Old 07-07-2004, 03:25 AM - Thread Starter
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One more thing I didn't mention previously: my software currently only supports source 1. That is, as it stands today, you cannot control multiple MC zones. To be honest, I've always seen the biggest advantage of multi-zone to be seperate volume in each room, not different sources in each room. Maybe that'll change when my kids get older! Currently it's only my wife and I who decide which music we want to listen to. I am actually considering supporting two sources so that she can listen to one thing in the bedroom or living room while I'm listening to something else in the office. It shouldn't be technically difficult - just a matter of sitting down and writing the code.
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post #7 of 131 Old 07-09-2004, 03:03 AM - Thread Starter
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simon - got a bounce sending you that email. Let me know your current email address and I will send you the software.
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post #8 of 131 Old 07-09-2004, 05:53 AM
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hyslopc - I would also love to try your software. My CAV6.6 should be here early next week while the installers are prewiring the zone keypads as we speak. Sounds like the RS232 will make life a lot more enjoyable.

Thanks in advance!

bgolitz73@aol.com
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post #9 of 131 Old 07-19-2004, 12:27 AM - Thread Starter
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I've now greatly enhanced the software. It can now handle up to 6 MC zones, and is designed to take advantage of the latest firmware, using scrolling text, etc. Note that you will need to upgrade your keypads and controller to the latest firmware version if you're not running it already.

Post your email address here if you want a copy.
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post #10 of 131 Old 07-19-2004, 05:11 AM
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Could I get a copy?
Thanks
Steve

hy_def@yahoo.com
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post #11 of 131 Old 07-19-2004, 07:38 AM - Thread Starter
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BTW if anyone is contemplating upgrading their CAV6.6 keypad firmware, here's how I did it. The controller is a piece of cake: just use the same standard RS-232 cable that you use with my software. The keypads, on the other hand, use a proprietary plug for firmware updates. I went through my pile of spare PC cables & plugs and found two things which ended up being perfect for the job:

1) A female DB9 "raw" plug with contacts designed to be soldered onto wires that I bought from a local electronics store a long time ago.

2) A small 4-pin cable (of which only 3 of the pins are connected), which I am guessing either came from a PC fan or a CD-ROM drive (digital audio plug). Not exactly sure what this was but I had tons of them, so if you mess around with PCs a bit you probably have one lying around, too.

As it turns out, the 4-pin cable is exactly the right size to connect to the keypads, but whereas the cable had pins 1, 2, and 4 connected, the keypads need pins 1, 2, and 3 connected. Pulling the cable out from slot 4 and plugging it into slot 3 turned out to be very easy: you just press on the metal contact that lies 1/4" from the tip of the plug, and pull the cable out, then push it into slot 3. On the other end of the cable, I removed all three cables from the plug, and simply jammed them onto my DB9 connector. It wasn't 100% stable, but they held OK as long as I didn't put any pressure on them. I upgraded one keypad first to make sure I didn't mess everything up. After rebooting the CAV6.6, I could see that the firmware upgrade was successful. I then went around with a laptop and upgraded all 6 keypads in less than 5 minutes.

As always, YMMV, and don't blame me if you use the same method I did and it causes problems for you. It worked for me, though.
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post #12 of 131 Old 07-19-2004, 08:54 AM
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Opps, that was my old work email.

new one: simon @

many thanks for this!!
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post #13 of 131 Old 07-19-2004, 09:05 AM
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The underlining made by the system obscures the e-mail address. It is:

hy_def @ yahoo . com (delete spaces).

Thanks
Steve
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post #14 of 131 Old 07-19-2004, 09:07 AM
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Rcv'd file. Thanks
Steve
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post #15 of 131 Old 07-20-2004, 12:14 AM
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Would it be possible to get a copy of your file? I'm in the process of planning a new system for our new house, signed the contract a few weeks ago

This looks like fun, and I would really like to get something I can build and configure my self. This would be as much a hobby as an entertainment system.

My email is: goran.ronne(a)chello.no

With regards

Gøran Rønne
Oslo, Norway
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post #16 of 131 Old 07-20-2004, 04:51 AM - Thread Starter
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You have mail. Yes, that's one of the big reasons why I went down the CAV6.6/MC route: both systems are fully programmable using a standard PC. Of course I would have preferred if the CAV6.6 used IP instead of RS-232, but in fact I have found that the RS-232 interface is fast enough and really works well. The CAV6.6 uses 19200 baud, and the packets are small, so really performance isn't an issue at all. Thankfully you can still buy PCs with serial ports! I use a Shuttle Zen, which comes with one RS-232 port built-in.

What really surprised me was that most of my programming problems were on the MC side, not on the CAV6.6 side: I had expected the opposite. The Russound protocol is really very good, and they have been very helpful in providing info and documentation on the protocol.

The great news is that the biggest programming issue on the MC side is fixed in v11, and they might even add event-based notification, which would be even better. Overall I'm very pleased with the whole setup. The only thing on my "wish list" would be a wider display for the Russound keypads, although that isn't such an issue now that Russound have added support for scrolling text in the latest keypad firmware. Support for a blue LED backlight would be nice, too (in addition to the green and orange supported today).
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post #17 of 131 Old 07-20-2004, 05:06 AM
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Has jriver announced when MC11 will be available?
Steve
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post #18 of 131 Old 07-20-2004, 07:38 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by steve
Has jriver announced when MC11 will be available?
Steve

It's in alpha/beta now. You can follow the development here:
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?board=3

Jim Hillegass / JRiver Media Center
jriver.com or Owners Thread at AVSForum
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post #19 of 131 Old 07-21-2004, 01:45 AM - Thread Starter
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Great to hear, Jim!

Hey - have any of you got the software up and running with your CAV6.6 system yet?
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post #20 of 131 Old 07-27-2004, 04:34 AM - Thread Starter
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You should have all now received a new version of the software. This version you received requires the latest controller & keypad firmware but works with MC10. Future versions will require MC11.

Would be nice to hear if anyone has it up and running yet
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post #21 of 131 Old 07-30-2004, 04:00 AM - Thread Starter
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hy_def wanted to know why future versions will require MC11. The reason is because the MC10 API only supports getting info and making changes to the current zone. So if you want to make changes to multiple zones at once, you have to switch the current zone. Since there's no event mechanism in MC10 or MC11, all zones have to be polled fairly rapidly. In MC10, that means the current zone has to be switched several times a second even when nothing's playing, making the MC GUI impossible to use.

MC11 solves this by extending the API to include access to all zones at once (not just the zone that's currently active in the GUI). So I still have to poll, but it doesn't block access to the GUI at all.
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post #22 of 131 Old 08-03-2004, 09:12 PM
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I would love a copy please. You are the man!!

biglips31@yahoo.com

I have a cav 6.6 installed in my home any my wife
is upset that we do not have mp3 support.

I cannot afford the new media system that is due out
next month at 1899.00msrp.

Thanks again!!
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post #23 of 131 Old 08-04-2004, 12:17 AM - Thread Starter
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You have mail! Yeah that new Russound media server looks really cool - based on the spec, I think they did a really great job with it, but IMHO it's still not as cool as this solution because:

1) $$$
2) It's limited to 3 sources
3) It's not available yet
4) It will never be able to match MC10's power & GUI
5) No support for APE files or other less-common formats
6) It's a closed solution

I think for people who are allergic to PCs and just want it to work, the Russound media server is the way to go, but for most of the people in this forum, a software-based solution is better.
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post #24 of 131 Old 08-04-2004, 09:09 AM
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Ok, I downloaded firmware upgrades to keypads and cav 6.6. I will upgrade these shortly.

I already have a HTPC but it is in a different location than the music distribution so I will have to build another system just for my MP3 system.

Any advice of hardware? Specifically case that could possibly be rackmounted in the future.

Also how do the multizone system work? I would probably only need two
different sources. Is it also possible to distribute the video also via composite? I'n new to this but I would propbably like to build something very comparable to the russound server.

Thanks,

Anthony
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post #25 of 131 Old 08-04-2004, 10:11 AM - Thread Starter
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Hardware depends greatly on your needs. I have one cupboard containing my CAV6.6, an 8-channel Rotel amp, an ADSL modem, a router, 2 wireless phone base units and a doorbell chime. The cupboard is quite tall, but only barely wide enough to fit the CAV6.6, and it's located a few feet away from my kitchen table. Since I wanted to put the server PC and a 250GB USB2 hard drive in there with all that stuff, my primary need was "small, cool and quiet".

As such, I went for a Shuttle Zen XPC with a 2.8GHz P4 and a 40GB 4200rpm laptop drive. The Zen has an external power supply, which makes it really, really small, so it fits easily in the cupboard. It was quiet right out of the box, but I underclocked it to 1.4GHz and undervolted it to 0.85V and run SpeedFan to slow the fans down so that they are inaudible even with the cupboard door open.

The 250GB hard drive, which is a Maxtor OneTouch, is pretty quiet, too, but it makes more noise and generates as much heat as the Zen. The Zen has one COM port (needed for the CAV6.6) and a built-in 6-channel sound, so it can generate 3 stereo streams at once. Due to issues with the current MC11 build (which I have reported to J River), I only have one stream enabled right now. If you wanted to have 6 streams, you could plug in a 6-channel PCI or USB2 sound card, but 3 is plenty for me right now.

One thing I didn't know is that the Zen can boot straight from a USB2 hard drive. If I'd known that, I probably would have skipped the internal laptop drive completely.
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post #26 of 131 Old 08-04-2004, 10:25 AM - Thread Starter
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Sorry, forgot to answer all of your questions! How does the multi-zone work? Well right now it doesn't ;-)! Actually it worked with MC10, but due to reasons already documented in this thread I switched to the MC11 API, which works fine, too. So the problem now is actually very simple: the current MC11 alpha release outputs every "zone" to soundcard channels 1 & 2 regardless of what is set in the DirectSound settings. At least it does on my PC, and I figure it's a problem with MC11 and not with my PC, since it worked fine with MC10. So control of multiple zones with the keypads works fine, but all of the sources play on top of each other in zone 1!

The way it will should once they fix this bug in MC11 is that you create as many sources (zones) as you want in MC, using menu option Player | Playback options | Zone Manager. Map each zone to a different pair of sound card outputs, and connect those sound card outputs to the inputs on your CAV6.6. Then start my software, and it should all just work. Each "zone" in MC becomes a "source" on the keypads, where zone 1 = source 1, zone 2 = source 2, etc. If you already have a source setup as source 1, then I'm afraid you'll have to move it :-(. Let me know if that's a big problem. I have been trying to just use defaults for everything to avoid having to support an ini file or registry settings.

Is it possible to distribute video via composite? I guess it would be, assuming your video card has a TV out, although I haven't tried that. Let me know how you go if you try it, since it sounds interesting.
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post #27 of 131 Old 08-06-2004, 08:26 AM
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Quote:


So the problem now is actually very simple: the current MC11 alpha release outputs every "zone" to soundcard channels 1 & 2 regardless of what is set in the DirectSound settings. At least it does on my PC, and I figure it's a problem with MC11 and not with my PC, since it worked fine with MC10.

MC 11 is correctly routing DirectSound to multiple outputs for each zone on my machine.

Maybe start a thread over here so we can dig some more:
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?board=3

Thanks!
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post #28 of 131 Old 08-06-2004, 08:40 AM - Thread Starter
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Aha! Well that's excellent news. I'd much rather be dealing with a local problem on my PC than with a software problem outside my control. Which build are you running?

I might try uninstalling everything and trying again with a clean install. It could be remnants of my MC10 install that is haunting me.

Hey you're not *the* monkey (of Monkey's Audio), are you? If so, I'm a *huge* fan!
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post #29 of 131 Old 08-08-2004, 01:25 PM
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hyslopc,

Could you please send me a copy of your plugin. This is the plugin I have been waiting for!!!

Thanks,

Sventek97

ericl@srointernet.com
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post #30 of 131 Old 08-16-2004, 02:59 PM - Thread Starter
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Anyone using it?
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