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post #1 of 64 Old 11-07-2004, 01:24 AM - Thread Starter
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Who really needs Gigabit LAN vs. 100Mbps for networking multiple HD PCI Card recorders for record/playback acorss the LAN as well as general PC use?

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post #2 of 64 Old 11-07-2004, 10:45 AM
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The files record at approx 8GB per hour. Windows copy processes bring XP computers to their knees. I'm not waiting to get back to a usable state when I don't have to.
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post #3 of 64 Old 11-07-2004, 11:11 AM
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Anyone copying stuff back and forth across the network.

Just curious Murray, but what's the agenda here? You've started two "Who really needs (fast interconnect) vs (slower interconnect)" theads?

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post #4 of 64 Old 11-07-2004, 11:16 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally posted by stanger89
Anyone copying stuff back and forth across the network.

Just curious Murray, but what's the agenda here? You've started two "Who really needs (fast interconnect) vs (slower interconnect)" theads?
stanger89

I am upgrading some computers and want to determine the merits of Gigabyte LAN adapters vs. 100 Mbps and 1394A vs. 1394B adapters.

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post #5 of 64 Old 11-07-2004, 11:22 AM
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I have 100mbps and although I rarely do it it's painful when I have to copy over a buncha big files from one comp to the other. Gigabit would be helpful but only on those rare occasions for me.

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post #6 of 64 Old 11-07-2004, 11:30 AM
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Ah, the "Do I need GigE?" Sorry, your post sounded kind of like the "you're stupid if you go with X over Y" threads.:D

Seriously, I'm not sure about 1394B but I see no reason not to go GigE if you're buying hardware, it's pretty cheap any more, and the first time you need to copy a relatively large file across the network you'll be glad you did.

Examples:
Intel Pro/1000 card $40
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProduc...106-105&depa=0
Linksys 8-port GigE switch $122
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProduc...124-027&depa=5
or Linksys 4-Port GigE switch $82
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProduc...124-025&depa=5

Of course if you've already got a switch, I'm not sure I'd upgrade, but I would buy GigE cards so you don't have to upgrade them later.

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post #7 of 64 Old 11-07-2004, 12:57 PM - Thread Starter
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I have read that some people who upgraded to Gigabyte LAN regretted it as they developed new problems they did not other wise have with 10/100Mbps.

Are the 1000 Mbps Routers/Switches and NIC's backward compatible with other 10/100 Switches and NIC's on the network whereby each will run at its highest possible speed and not get averaged down to 10/100 Mbs?

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post #8 of 64 Old 11-07-2004, 03:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by mkerdman
I have read that some people who upgraded to Gigabyte LAN regretted it as they developed new problems they did not other wise have with 10/100Mbps.

Are the 1000 Mbps Routers/Switches and NIC's backward compatible with other 10/100 Switches and NIC's on the network whereby each will run at its highest possible speed and not get averaged down to 10/100 Mbs?
1... most of those very same people will have problems with every upgrade or product install that they come across.... the problem is usually behind the keyboard...

2... simple answer: some will, some won't.... homework required....

:cool:

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post #9 of 64 Old 11-07-2004, 03:50 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally posted by jimwhite
1... most of those very same people will have problems with every upgrade or product install that they come across.... the problem is usually behind the keyboard...

2... simple answer: some will, some won't.... homework required....

:cool:
Yes, pilot error abounds.

Are the examples below if applied across all systems likely to each run at their max. speed at not "average down" the whole network:

Examples:

Intel Pro/1000 card $40
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProdu...-106-105&depa=0

Linksys 8-port GigE switch $122
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProdu...-124-027&depa=5

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post #10 of 64 Old 11-07-2004, 03:54 PM
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@jimwhite
LOL... too true.

And yeah some of the newer mobos with gigabit do so without going via the PCI bus, so it won't bog down your PCI bus as much... but you have to be careful to be sure that the mobo is indeed not relying on the PCI bus... (e.g. MSI Neo Platinum that I have doesn't rely on the PCI bus).

In the case of adaptors... then you can't go wrong with gigabit if they are the bus mastering variety else your CPU usage will be rather high on transfers, especially if you have as software firewall installed.

Cheers...
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post #11 of 64 Old 11-07-2004, 04:11 PM
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the Intel card, yes.... can't say about the Linksys switch.... I use an SMC since it's Jumbo Frame compatible (another thread maybe?) :D

:cool:

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post #12 of 64 Old 11-07-2004, 04:27 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally posted by jimwhite
the Intel card, yes.... can't say about the Linksys switch.... I use an SMC since it's Jumbo Frame compatible (another thread maybe?) :D

:cool:
I'll bite, WTF is Jumbo Frame compatible?

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post #13 of 64 Old 11-07-2004, 05:15 PM
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Jumbo Frames -

Regular ethernet packets have a max size of about 1500 bytes. Regardless of the size of a packet, there is a constant amount of overhead required to process it. Since GigE is theoretically 10x faster than 100BT, this means 10x more overhead in the same amount of time - that can suck up CPU time just to handle network traffic.

The solution? Increase packet sizes so that for about the same amount of time you get the same amount of overhead. GigE jumbo frames tend to be about 9000 bytes, so it isn't usually a 10:1 ratio, but most people don't see a full 10x throughput speed up anyway, so it mostly kinda works out.
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post #14 of 64 Old 11-07-2004, 06:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by mkerdman
I'll bite, WTF is Jumbo Frame compatible?
don't ya just LOVE technology.... :D

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post #15 of 64 Old 11-07-2004, 07:01 PM
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The Linksys gig switch is super loud. I hacked mine with some heatsinks and slower fan but you won't want it in any room you work in.

GigE is the worth ever penny as far as upgrades go. IMO of course.

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post #16 of 64 Old 11-07-2004, 07:13 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally posted by ElectricLegs
The Linksys gig switch is super loud. I hacked mine with some heatsinks and slower fan but you won't want it in any room you work in.

GigE is the worth ever penny as far as upgrades go. IMO of course.
Another fan- yikes!

Which 8-port Gigabit Switch would you buy today as an all-around "best buy"?

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post #17 of 64 Old 11-07-2004, 08:15 PM
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post #18 of 64 Old 11-07-2004, 08:36 PM
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I had the original Linksys with fan. Replaced it with an Asante GX5-800P 8 PORT Gigabit switch which is fanless and as such silent.
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post #19 of 64 Old 11-08-2004, 04:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by mkerdman
Another fan- yikes!

Which 8-port Gigabit Switch would you buy today as an all-around "best buy"?
SMC

:cool:

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post #20 of 64 Old 11-08-2004, 06:48 AM
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How do we know what cards are jumbo frame compatible?
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post #21 of 64 Old 11-08-2004, 07:26 AM
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well, I haven't run across a gig nic that wasn't (yet)....

:cool:

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post #22 of 64 Old 11-08-2004, 07:55 AM
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You may want to be sure your hard drive isn't the slowest part in the link as well. Sure, you may think only the numbers matter (100MB/s > 100Mbs) but if your drive is fragged to hell and other things are running which can take up memory/disc cache, the write process may be the slowest.
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post #23 of 64 Old 11-08-2004, 08:14 AM - Thread Starter
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I record/watch HDTV to/from (5) networked PC's with nary a glitch using a 100Mbps Ethernet network.

But, when I copy 16GB files across the network while it does work, resources go to 100% utilized and the systems involved become 486DX class PC's.

I may well upgrade my switches and NIC's.

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post #24 of 64 Old 11-08-2004, 09:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jah-Wren Ryel
Jumbo Frames -

Regular ethernet packets have a max size of about 1500 bytes. Regardless of the size of a packet, there is a constant amount of overhead required to process it. Since GigE is theoretically 10x faster than 100BT, this means 10x more overhead in the same amount of time - that can suck up CPU time just to handle network traffic.

The solution? Increase packet sizes so that for about the same amount of time you get the same amount of overhead. GigE jumbo frames tend to be about 9000 bytes, so it isn't usually a 10:1 ratio, but most people don't see a full 10x throughput speed up anyway, so it mostly kinda works out.
Question/clarification needed here:

I have heard that the drawback to Jumbo frames is that every device on the network must be compatible with (and configured to use) jumbo frames, otherwise the network self-downgrades to 100Mbps. Is this correct?
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post #25 of 64 Old 11-09-2004, 04:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Airblair
Question/clarification needed here:

I have heard that the drawback to Jumbo frames is that every device on the network must be compatible with (and configured to use) jumbo frames, otherwise the network self-downgrades to 100Mbps. Is this correct?
No....


the only problem I have with jumbo frames is the MediaCenter10 server.... something about utp not working in jumbo frames....

:cool:

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post #26 of 64 Old 11-09-2004, 06:18 AM
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You shouldn't have a problem with mixing jumbos and non jumbos in a switched environment. I get the feeling that some of the cheap switches didn't or don't handle it properly though. The SMC 8508 8 port gigabit switch is considered to be the best for the price and would recommend it. Now with good Ethernet cards like the Intels, even running with small frames isn't killer to the PC because they have the intelligence not to send an interrupt for every frame. There's a term for this but I can't think of it. Processor offloading? On my gigabit network at home, the bottleneck is the hard drive, plain and simple. Even thought my server has a sweet RAID setup, my workstation has a plain old 7200 RPM drive which limits throughput. It's great watching things transfer that are in cache, 50MB/s are no sweat but once it hits that workstation HD, right down to about 26MB/s which is exactly what the benchmarks tell me the drive is capable of. I've also found that Windows blows when you try to copy files across the network from a folder with lots of files in it. I can't believe we still buy Microsoft OS's. We are a stupid species. Gigabit is totally worth it IMO. I'll take 25+ MB/s anyday over 8MB/s. Once you go gig you won't go back :)
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post #27 of 64 Old 11-09-2004, 07:26 AM - Thread Starter
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Since I have 10 PC's in a mixed home/office enviornment = $$$. would I be OK with the Linksys Adapters below which are $29 vs. the Intel's which are $54-

Intel PWLA8390MT PCI 10/100/1000 Adapter

http://shop1.outpost.com/product/3337812


Linksys EG1032 32-Bit Instant Gigabit Network PCI Adapter

http://shop1.outpost.com/product/3047219


with either of these switches?

Linksys SD2008 8-Port 10/100/1000 Gigabit Switch

http://shop1.outpost.com/product/396...H:MAIN_RSLT_PG

Linksys EG008W 8-Port Gigabit Switch

http://shop1.outpost.com/product/362...H:MAIN_RSLT_PG

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post #28 of 64 Old 11-09-2004, 09:47 AM
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The intel ones are only $40.

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post #29 of 64 Old 11-09-2004, 10:04 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally posted by stanger89
The intel ones are only $40.
Where?

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post #30 of 64 Old 11-09-2004, 10:16 AM
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http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProduc...106-105&depa=0

I think they're $36 if you don't need the box.

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