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post #6331 of 12511 Old 03-14-2006, 12:13 PM
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Hi Everyone,

There is a discussion going on over at this thread about the new nVidia beta drivers, and how the user can now select between video levels (16-235) and PC levels (0-255). Back in September, Cliff and Terry tackled this issue, with Terry giving his best guess here.

My HP MD5880n can be set for either video levels or PC levels. I suspect the the MyHD DVI output is using PC levels because I lose black detail when I set my TV to use video levels, and MyHD output looks great when the TV is set to PC levels. However, when using TheaterTek and VMR9, my TV looks better when set to video levels (as it should, since previous nVidia drivers use video levels).

I am curious whether anyone else has any comments on this subject. Is there a test I can do to verify for certain which levels MyHD is using? Also, is there any way to select between video and PC levels using a registry setting? When using the DVI passthrough, it would be nice to have the video card and MyHD using the same levels.

Thanks,
Dave
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post #6332 of 12511 Old 03-14-2006, 03:13 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TPeterson View Post

Andy, this seems to be a reasonable lead, except that I'm not finding either MaximumTransferSize nor a DebugLevel associated with MyIRC in my Registry. Where are you finding these values?

Sorry about the slow response on the answer.

The parameters MaximumTransferSize and DebugLevel are in

HKey_Local_Machines-->...-->Services --> MyIRC_USB --> Parameters

I hope that is sufficient. Since I didn't get a chance to do this last night, the names were being read over the phone and I didn't want to push my luck by asking to have more read :-)
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post #6333 of 12511 Old 03-14-2006, 04:10 PM
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Well, that explains why I'm not finding those parameters...I don't have a USB MyHD remote.

Perhaps someone else who has a USB remote and has observed the freeze-on-FF problem can confirm Andy's fix?
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post #6334 of 12511 Old 03-14-2006, 05:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DPlettner View Post

Hi Everyone,

There is a discussion going on over at this thread about the new nVidia beta drivers, and how the user can now select between video levels (16-235) and PC levels (0-255). Back in September, Cliff and Terry tackled this issue, with Terry giving his best guess here.

My HP MD5880n can be set for either video levels or PC levels. I suspect the the MyHD DVI output is using PC levels because I lose black detail when I set my TV to use video levels, and MyHD output looks great when the TV is set to PC levels. However, when using TheaterTek and VMR9, my TV looks better when set to video levels (as it should, since previous nVidia drivers use video levels).

I am curious whether anyone else has any comments on this subject. Is there a test I can do to verify for certain which levels MyHD is using? Also, is there any way to select between video and PC levels using a registry setting? When using the DVI passthrough, it would be nice to have the video card and MyHD using the same levels.

Thanks,
Dave

I've just confirmed with MIT that the MyHD output (because it's made to conform to the SMPTE-274M standard) is fixed at "video" levels of 16-235 (16-240 for Cb/Cr) and cannot be changed.
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post #6335 of 12511 Old 03-14-2006, 06:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TPeterson View Post

I've just confirmed with MIT that the MyHD output (because it's made to conform to the SMPTE-274M standard) is fixed at "video" levels of 16-235 (16-240 for Cb/Cr) and cannot be changed.

Terry,

Thanks a lot for confirming this. Since I have my TV at the wrong setting, I really need to calibrate the TV for MyHD using the video level setting. Also, it is nice to know that I should not use PC levels for VMR if I use the DVI passthrough.

-Dave
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post #6336 of 12511 Old 03-14-2006, 07:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TPeterson View Post

I've just confirmed with MIT that the MyHD output (because it's made to conform to the SMPTE-274M standard) is fixed at "video" levels of 16-235 (16-240 for Cb/Cr) and cannot be changed.

YCbCr video (per HDMI spec) is always 16-235/16-240. It is only with RGB conversion where we have the 0-255 and 16-235 issues. I think MITs response would have been clearer if they referenced RGB instead of CbCr. I suppose their answer also applies to RGB levels being fixed to 16-235, or did they only answer the question you posed relative to YCbCr?
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post #6337 of 12511 Old 03-14-2006, 08:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sfhub View Post

YCbCr video (per HDMI spec) is always 16-235/16-240. It is only with RGB conversion where we have the 0-255 and 16-235 issues. I think MITs response would have been clearer if they referenced RGB instead of CbCr. I suppose their answer also applies to RGB levels being fixed to 16-235, or did they only answer the question you posed relative to YCbCr?

The question that I passed along, which came from a discussion about Nvidia DVI outputs, which evidently are not guaranteed always to be 16-235/240 AIUI, referred to DVI output--hence, the YCbCr (digital) reference in the answer. I expect that the YPrPb/RGB outputs are also to the "video" specification though.
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post #6338 of 12511 Old 03-14-2006, 10:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TPeterson View Post

The question that I passed along, which came from a discussion about Nvidia DVI outputs, which evidently are not guaranteed always to be 16-235/240 AIUI, referred to DVI output--hence, the YCbCr (digital) reference in the answer. I expect that the YPrPb/RGB outputs are also to the "video" specification though.

Either I'm confusing you or you are confusing me

I thought the nVidia discussion was referring to the DVI port outputting RGB standard 16-235 or extended 0-255 range?

I don't know many people outputting YCbCr from the DVI-D port of an nVidia. I don't even know how to convince my nVidia card to output YCbCr from the DVI-D port. The HDTV options in the driver specify HDTV timings but I believe the output is still RGB.

Maybe I'm just totally confused.
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post #6339 of 12511 Old 03-15-2006, 05:59 AM
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P4 3Ghz, 1GB Ram, MDP-130 1.66e drivers. OTA only.
SPDIF is passed through a seperate sound card to my A/V receiver.

Sometimes, when watching recorded or timeshifted HD content, the Audio will start to get jerky... the audio seems fine.... Ironically, it seems to only occur on the ABC Network programing as well, but that might be a coincident. The stutter will resolve itself if I tap the FF button.

My PC is in a cabinate and is prone to get warm... do you think this is an overheating issue? Or something else?
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post #6340 of 12511 Old 03-15-2006, 06:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kdtjlamb View Post

P4 3Ghz, 1GB Ram, MDP-130 1.66e drivers. OTA only.
SPDIF is passed through a seperate sound card to my A/V receiver.

Sometimes, when watching recorded or timeshifted HD content, the Audio will start to get jerky... the audio seems fine.... Ironically, it seems to only occur on the ABC Network programing as well, but that might be a coincident. The stutter will resolve itself if I tap the FF button.

My PC is in a cabinate and is prone to get warm... do you think this is an overheating issue? Or something else?

Check that... the Video will become jerky... the audio is fine.
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post #6341 of 12511 Old 03-15-2006, 06:50 AM
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I tried looking on DC for an IR receiver, but they only have the remote/receiver for the Fusion. I sent an e-mail, but I didn't get a response (or my company's e-mail filter thought the response was SPAM).

Kei, should I give a call to DC?

Xesdeeni
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post #6342 of 12511 Old 03-15-2006, 08:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sfhub View Post

Either I'm confusing you or you are confusing me

I thought the nVidia discussion was referring to the DVI port outputting RGB standard 16-235 or extended 0-255 range?

I don't know many people outputting YCbCr from the DVI-D port of an nVidia. I don't even know how to convince my nVidia card to output YCbCr from the DVI-D port. The HDTV options in the driver specify HDTV timings but I believe the output is still RGB.

Maybe I'm just totally confused.

From MIT's answer to my question about the "MyHD DVI output" and a cursory reading of some spec. sheets for DVI driver chips I had the impression that digital DVI outputs are always YCbCr. My comment about RGB/YPbPr referred to the MyHD analog output on the main card. I have not studied the details of the full DVI spec. so it's very possible that my conclusion about its digital output being always YCbCr is incorrect. (And I haven't looked at Nvidia's information on their chips and drivers at all, so that's wide open)
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post #6343 of 12511 Old 03-15-2006, 08:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kdtjlamb View Post

Check that... the Video will become jerky... the audio is fine.

Overheating seems a definite possibility. Can you run for a while with the cabinet open for more cooling to see if the problem still occurs? If it does or doesn't, you'll have your answer.
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post #6344 of 12511 Old 03-15-2006, 09:34 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TPeterson View Post

Well, that explains why I'm not finding those parameters...I don't have a USB MyHD remote.

Perhaps someone else who has a USB remote and has observed the freeze-on-FF problem can confirm Andy's fix?

FYI...Ran another three files without any problems. This is now the longest I've gone without a hang-up. So, I'm gaining more confidence that the registry change had an affect.

Also, the final registry folder should have been "Parameters" instead of "Parameter". I'll fix in my original append.
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post #6345 of 12511 Old 03-15-2006, 10:01 AM
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Originally Posted by alk3997 View Post

FYI...Ran another three files without any problems. This is now the longest I've gone without a hang-up. So, I'm gaining more confidence that the registry change had an affect.

Also, the final registry folder should have been "Parameters" instead of "Parameter". I'll fix in my original append.

Sounds good. I'd still like to hear from some other folks with USB remotes who've seen the problem and have successfully tried this fix...anybody??
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post #6346 of 12511 Old 03-15-2006, 10:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TPeterson View Post

From MIT's answer to my question about the "MyHD DVI output" and a cursory reading of some spec. sheets for DVI driver chips I had the impression that digital DVI outputs are always YCbCr. My comment about RGB/YPbPr referred to the MyHD analog output on the main card. I have not studied the details of the full DVI spec. so it's very possible that my conclusion about its digital output being always YCbCr is incorrect. (And I haven't looked at Nvidia's information on their chips and drivers at all, so that's wide open)

Not trying to beat a dead horse, I'm really trying to understand.

How do you configure the MyHD DVI port to output YCbCr? It only works when I configure it for RGB in the MyHD setup panel. All PC monitors I know of only support RGB on the DVI interface so MyHD must be sending out RGB or it wouldn't look right with those monitors. I don't even know if DVI supports YCbCr at all. It isn't in the DVI 1.0 spec but folks could have amended the spec and I don't rule that out.
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post #6347 of 12511 Old 03-15-2006, 10:31 AM
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Originally Posted by alk3997 View Post

FYI...Ran another three files without any problems. This is now the longest I've gone without a hang-up. So, I'm gaining more confidence that the registry change had an affect.

Also, the final registry folder should have been "Parameters" instead of "Parameter". I'll fix in my original append.

You might have mentioned this already, but if you change the parameters back, does the freeze happen again?
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post #6348 of 12511 Old 03-15-2006, 11:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sfhub View Post

Not trying to beat a dead horse, I'm really trying to understand.

How do you configure the MyHD DVI port to output YCbCr? It only works when I configure it for RGB in the MyHD setup panel. All PC monitors I know of only support RGB on the DVI interface so MyHD must be sending out RGB or it wouldn't look right with those monitors. I don't even know if DVI supports YCbCr at all. It isn't in the DVI 1.0 spec but folks could have amended the spec and I don't rule that out.

There is no way to "configure" the MyHD DVI output. As has been pointed out numerous times in the MyHD threads, you must check the "RGB" and not "YPbPr" mode to enable the daughtercard's output port. The answer from MIT implied that that output is derived from an SMPTE spec that stipulates YCbCr (16-235/240) levels and that no translation of them (to 0-255) is performed. They may well be translated from YCbCr color space to "equivalent" RGB values if that's what the DVI spec requires--I don't know, but I do know that you're as well (or better) equipped to find out as am I.
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post #6349 of 12511 Old 03-15-2006, 11:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TPeterson View Post

The answer from MIT implied that that output is derived from an SMPTE spec that stipulates YCbCr (16-235/240) levels and that no translation of them (to 0-255) is performed. They may well be translated from YCbCr color space to "equivalent" RGB values if that's what the DVI spec requires--I don't know, but I do know that you're as well (or better) equipped to find out as am I.

This is what I expected the answer from MIT to have been. I'll just go on the assumption that this is what they meant.
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post #6350 of 12511 Old 03-15-2006, 11:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TPeterson View Post

There is no way to "configure" the MyHD DVI output. As has been pointed out numerous times in the MyHD threads, you must check the "RGB" and not "YPbPr" mode to enable the daughtercard's output port. The answer from MIT implied that that output is derived from an SMPTE spec that stipulates YCbCr (16-235/240) levels and that no translation of them (to 0-255) is performed. They may well be translated from YCbCr color space to "equivalent" RGB values if that's what the DVI spec requires--I don't know, but I do know that you're as well (or better) equipped to find out as am I.

I have never tried calibrating MyHD. I always figured that it would be difficult since I had to calibrate both the TV and MyHD. Probably a good approach would be to calibrate my HDTV input for the video card using the instructions in this thread, and then calibrate MyHD at the same input using only the MyHD controls. Cliff used to post some information on this subject, such as this post from the archives. In this old thread, it appears that he is recommending much higher channel gains than the defaults (with a much lower saturation). However, MIT may have changed things.

-Dave
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post #6351 of 12511 Old 03-15-2006, 12:10 PM
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I have the ff lockup, but all I have to do to fix it, is hit rewind once. I have the usb receiver, but could not find the registry keys you noted. Thanks, Troy.
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post #6352 of 12511 Old 03-15-2006, 12:37 PM
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Troy, the "lockup" that Andy and others (including, recently, your humble scribe) have occasionally seen is not cured by any remote or keyboard entry--it's a true lockup that requires the reset or power button to "cure".

But it's interesting nevertheless that you don't find those Registry keys either, if you have the USB remote! Did you use Regedit's search to look for the actual key names that Andy provided?
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post #6353 of 12511 Old 03-15-2006, 01:55 PM
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I did not find the listed entries. I did a search for them individually, and also searched for Myirc. The only listings I got for MyIRC were some open keys, and locations for the myirc.exe program. Hope this helps. I am running windows 2000 and Myhd130 on that machine, with the usb remote. My other computer has winxp, and a serial remote. Take care. Troy.
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post #6354 of 12511 Old 03-15-2006, 02:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TPeterson View Post

But it's interesting nevertheless that you don't find those Registry keys either, if you have the USB remote! Did you use Regedit's search to look for the actual key names that Andy provided?

Well, I have no remote, usb or serial, and I have those keys that Andy mentioned.
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post #6355 of 12511 Old 03-15-2006, 03:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TPeterson View Post

Troy, the "lockup" that Andy and others (including, recently, your humble scribe) have occasionally seen is not cured by any remote or keyboard entry--it's a true lockup that requires the reset or power button to "cure".

I'm wondering if it's the same lockup I get. I have the 120 with daughterboard on Win2000 and once in a while (probably timeshifting or watching a .tp recording) out of the clear blue (probably with a press of the rewind button, but not certain) I get a lockup. It's attended by an audio recycle, sort of a tone that plays over and over real loud every 1/5 second or so. There's nothing to do but hit the reset button. Fortunately, I always retain my timeshift files in my buffer, and more than anything because of this occasional problem. It's happened to me 3-4 times, I'd guess. Does this sound like what you're talking about?

Please let me piggyback another question: Having a MyHD 120/daughterboard combo, is most of the info found in this thread pertinent to my situation? Any guidelines on that? Thanks.
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post #6356 of 12511 Old 03-15-2006, 04:11 PM
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I checked my Myhd120 in winxp machine, and I have those listings. I could not tell you if I have any lockup issues, because that machine only records, I do not play back on it. I was wrong before when I said that I had the serial on that machine, I actually am using the usb remote from the 130 on the 120/winxp machine, and the serial on the 130/win2000 machine. I am sorry that I can not help on the lockup issues, but at least I can account for the keys with the usb dongle. Troy.
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post #6357 of 12511 Old 03-15-2006, 04:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sfhub View Post

Well, I have no remote, usb or serial, and I have those keys that Andy mentioned.

Sorry, you can disregard the PM I just sent, as I hadn't seen this post. Have you seen the lockup? Also, was there no remote attached when you installed MyHD.exe?
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post #6358 of 12511 Old 03-15-2006, 07:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TPeterson View Post

Sorry, you can disregard the PM I just sent, as I hadn't seen this post. Have you seen the lockup? Also, was there no remote attached when you installed MyHD.exe?

I want to say for sure I had no remote attached when I installed, but it was so long ago I can't say for certain. I looked back in my MyHD box and the USB remote receiver is still in the zip lock package with the twisty tied and looks like it was never touched, and I never used the physical remote (batteries are still wrapped) so I'm reasonably confident I've never installed the USB remote.

I do have the keys, but don't have the lockup problem, but I wouldn't expect to (if the analysis is correct that this is USB remote related) since I don't use the USB remote.
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post #6359 of 12511 Old 03-15-2006, 08:15 PM
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Hmmm...I have seen the problem, but far less frequently than Andy has--perhaps because I don't have the USB receiver and its driver active.

I don't have the Registry keys, presumably because I had the serial receiver installed before the USB ones even came out. I'll try a fresh install with no receiver attached and see if those keys get installed. (I doubt that they'll have any effect on a non-USB remote setup, however, even if they do turn out to be significant for the problem)

Andy, would you please try resetting the keys to their previous values to see if the freezes return??

And would one of the others who've seen this problem let us know if you have the USB receiver (and the keys) and see if you can reproduce Andy's result???
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post #6360 of 12511 Old 03-16-2006, 07:29 AM
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When I click on TitanTVHelper in the My HD folder, it gives "Failed to read packet!" error. The driver and application version is 1.66. I set the application as MyHD in the titantv.com setup page.

What does TitanTVHelper do? Is it useful?

Thanks!
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