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post #12481 of 12503 Old 08-07-2014, 09:42 AM
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All my builds have been AMD, IIRC, so yeah, I like to keep my costs down.

I don't leave anything running 24/7, not even my laptop-server system. But I just bought a Synology NAS, the DS214play that I plan to run 24/7 as my new LAN server solution, instead of USB HD hanging off the laptop. Tried the USB HD hanging off the router, and some issues improved (inconsistent connectivity), but random and blind data corruption raised its ugly head, so I got the NAS, which I have to set up and get going. It should reduce the current drain to ~9watts in hibernation, maybe 28watts when cranking. My electricity bills are well in hand.

The NAS should improve my data protection and backup strategies immensely with its built in RAID 1 and ease of copying all the data to big HDs to be platooned to off site locations. That's the plan.

The Intel fan boys who warned me against AMD, well, let me quote the thread, which I'll link:

"The reason nobody here recommends AMD beyond special cases is that where AMD shines is in iGPU performance which is only useful in a few select cases. Whereas Intel's iGPUs are perfectly fine for non-gaming systems"

I have no idea what iGPU is about, but that guy seems to know what he's talking about. But this thread is on the Anandtech forum specific to motherboards, so I have to think these guys know what they're talking about. They linked me to a choice of motherboards at Newegg, Intel based, 3+ PCI slots supported: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...ame=LGA%201150

The thread: nForce 3 mobo, can't run OS past WinXP?

----> http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?p=36592933&posted=1#post36592933

Speaking of nVidia GPUs: I have a BFG Tech GeForce 6600GT OC 128MB DDR3 AGP Dual DVI in my current box, which I especially like because of the dual DVI (I have dual monitors). I don't want to give up the dual monitor configuration, although I don't make use of it much, it's a great option on occasion. So, dual monitor support will be one of my requirements as I design my upgrade strategy. I suppose it's unlikely that my next mobo will have an AGP slot, though. Maybe it will have onboard dual monitor support or else I'll have to buy another video card. Yup, I have a lot of reading to do!

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post #12482 of 12503 Old 08-08-2014, 10:38 AM
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Well, "Insert_Nickname" doesn't know what he is talking about.
The 100 series of Sempron are for the most part decommissioned Dual
Core Athlon IIs that didn't quite pass QC, but not all are able to be unlocked.
Did you tell him/her that my machines play 720 and 1080p .mkv format vids quite
nicely?
You should have told him our 130s were designed with modest machinery
in mind, thanks to the hardware MPEG 2 decoder.
Hell, I have half a mind to join that board just to tell that little pimple-popper
off!
{but I already belong to so many it is hard keeping active}

Though I did hook up a modest router I got at Canada Computers, primarily
because the clock on the remote unit some times drifts, yet manually I can't seem
to connect with any of the time servers to confirm, though the auto setting(XPPro)
is active. Also, I did it in anticipation of getting one or two HDHRs and with the LAN
port on the remote open, plug that into the first, then the hypothetical second will be on the router.

Though my model seems to be sold out....TL-WR720N, it and the USB dongle was 32.00CDN.
Now I see the upper models have come down in price.

http://www.canadacomputers.com/advan...-LINK&x=10&y=9

Oops, here it is: 15.00CDN for the router, 13 for the Nano plus sales taxes.

http://www.canadacomputers.com/produ...item_id=050688

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post #12483 of 12503 Old 08-08-2014, 06:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by browncoat View Post
Well, "Insert_Nickname" doesn't know what he is talking about...

You should have told him our 130s were designed with modest machinery
in mind, thanks to the hardware MPEG 2 decoder.
Hell, I have half a mind to join that board just to tell that little pimple-popper
off!
{but I already belong to so many it is hard keeping active}
You should join, it's quite painless, of course. It's absolutely my favorite tech oriented site. Tons of diverse forums and if you want to post about something that doesn't fit into one of the dozens of existing forums you can post to the Off Topic forum, which is extremely popular and you are sure to get responses. The technical level of a considerable proportion of the members is quite high, in many cases utterly awesome high. You can even post about your motorcycle related interests, they have a Garage forum.

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post #12484 of 12503 Old 08-09-2014, 08:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muse View Post
You should join, it's quite painless, of course. It's absolutely my favorite tech oriented site. Tons of diverse forums and if you want to post about something that doesn't fit into one of the dozens of existing forums you can post to the Off Topic forum, which is extremely popular and you are sure to get responses. The technical level of a considerable proportion of the members is quite high, in many cases utterly awesome high. You can even post about your motorcycle related interests, they have a Garage forum.
There are exceptions, of course, but it's my go-to forum site for most issues. Someone always comes along and says something, they don't just leave you high and dry, which happens so frequently at many other forums.

So, the Sempron, it might be perfectly alright for running the MyHD 130 (+ daughterboard). But is it adequate if I want to use it for transcoding duties, either file conversion or on-the-fly transcoding to send to my PJ? I've done precious little to none of that in the past, but now that I have the NAS, I figure I will get into stored file based movie watching instead of DVD's and BD's all the time.
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post #12485 of 12503 Old 08-09-2014, 04:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muse View Post
is it adequate if I want to use it for transcoding duties, either file conversion or on-the-fly transcoding to send to my PJ? I've done precious little to none of that in the past, but now that I have the NAS, I figure I will get into stored file based movie watching instead of DVD's and BD's all the time.
OK, I'll be honest with you, if your doing file conversion, of course it won't be as fast as a dual core or better.
However, since building this unit, I haven't needed to convert a 720p .mkv to .avi at all! Now I use my
favourite utility to rip .mp3s from .mp4s that I pull off of YouTube, especially when they are stereo, or
monaural, like old cuts of christmas songs. Now someone out there is going to be pissed that I didn't buy
his .mp3 for 1.99 if I bragged about it here but I'll give you a hint, do you listen to Coast to Coast AM in the middle of the night?

Don't download it from eRightsoft's site, it is confusing, download it from a Majorgeeks mirror. Plus to make it free, the installer is
loaded with adware, so go slow, be careful to go 'no' and 'deny' on the junk until you get to the main part, that's' the price to pay for freeware these days, but it is powerful, so play with it first.

http://www.majorgeeks.com/files/details/super.html
or these guys
http://www.dvdvideosoft.com/
http://www.majorgeeks.com/files/deta...ee_studio.html
If you want a more beginner's style GUI.
However since I never opened their package yet, same rule applies.......when you rush, you make mistakes.

Now on the old single core P4, even though the clock speed was higher, it would take that machine three hours
to convert a TV episode, up to five hours for a one and a half gig movie, and if the file was DVD size eight to ten
hours.

When I ran a test .mkv to .avi last August [on my birthday BTW] after this machine was built, on a TV show
I was only gone for a half an hour and it was done already.
Though there are other hardware differences, like a faster bus speed, faster RAM, DDR2 in the old v DDR3 in the new,
2gigs in the old v 4gigs in the new. We HAVE to use a 32-bit OS for the MDP-130s, don't forget, RAM isn't wasted,
the motherboard's individual components, if they require it, will pull RAM from the 'top down' that the OS is not using. From video cards,
though most people now get 512MB or greater, with the general suggestion that for 32 bit systems, you limit yourself to no more than a 2gig
video card. Then there are those that run with the integrated video already on the board, in which case the BIOS during set up should have
an option to set the amount of shared RAM, though reserved RAM is another matter, dictated by the CPU controller and any chip on board that does calculation. I have a 1gig GeForce 210 and I bet it still communicates with the system RAM, for those obscenely large gamer video card set-ups, like SLI, then it is recommended to go 64-bit with as much system RAM as one can afford.
I still have the image in my mind from one of my old textbooks when I took the MET course, it was a drawing showing how system RAM is divided.

Yes, the board I'm using came with integrated VGA etc.. but I chose to add a once top-of-the-line but now middle-of-the-road card, with
corresponding price drops as the later models came out.
Plus having a more modern northbridge and southbridge and other things on board as well, I suspect. YMMV.

Quote:
For more information, check out an excellent post by tech guru Mark Russinovich. Here's a small extract from Mark's blog:
The consumption of memory addresses below 4GB can be drastic on high-end gaming systems with large video cards. For example, I purchased one from a boutique gaming rig company that came with 4GB of RAM and two 1GB video cards. I hadn't specified the OS version and assumed that they'd put 64-bit Vista on it, but it came with the 32-bit version and as a result only 2.2GB of the memory was accessible by Windows. You can see a giant memory hole from 8FEF0000 to FFFFFFFF in this Meminfo output from the system after I installed 64-bit Windows.
Now in that case, if I stuck one of my 130s in a 32-bit W7 machine, and I turned into a pimple-popper, I would still install 8-16 gigs of RAM for the hardware to use, and free up that 800MB [or possibly more, 3.1 or 3.5gigs total] for Windows to use.

Back to transcoding, I saw your specs from that other forum and a socket 754 really is obsolete, on par with my old 775s for Intel.
In fact I still have an old 775 full ATX in the static bag, in the back room. I thought it was DOA but with the P4 I got rid off I learned that
two sticks of the bargain-basement ram I bought were dead and I got the same test result, no video, regardless of which card I used. It wouldn't even POST, then changing sticks, the old ASUS powered up. So I'm gambling that this spare 775 board is probably good, so with Geeks.com O-O-B I gotta find some other place that sells recycled stuff and get a refurbished 775 dual-core or even rarer, a QX6800-style 775 quad, you don't see many on the refurb market, mostly duals, which is all that was offered in 2007-2008 but I can't remember the chipset right now, if I get that together I'll use it for a dual-boot Windows/Linux or straight Linux.
My current crop of boards have GeForce 7025/nForce 630a, including one Biostar [bet that like power supplies, they were all made in the same place, for they were identical, except the colour of the plastic bits, like PCI slots] which I thought were old but I wanted backward compatibility with 2000Pro as well as support for Windows 7 and according to all the manuals, ASRock and ASUS, they do, so should run 8/8.1 but I don't care for it. Waiting to see what they do with 9.

B.O.T.... you will get faster renders with a dual-core or better but the 145 will do it, as I said, they are decommissioned Athlon II duals or newer, though not all will unlock, depends if your board will do it or if the second core was too frelled up to function.
Don't confuse them with the earlier true single core Semprons like the 3100 or 3520. AM3/AM3+ boards will only accept the 100 series, download the motherboard manuals in .pdf before buying, should find them at the vendor's sites. AMD is further confusing the issue because the AM1 CPUs just came out in April 2014 and I haven't seen any AM1 [see, they're going backwards now] motherboards yet.
I'll let someone else experiment with them, I'll stick with known quantities, AM3+ is good enough for me, as well as the FMs but the latter
are only duals and higher.. I'll wait until others do reviews. I will insist that they are not true Athlons or Semprons, Athlons maybe, but a Sempron is single core, not a dual or quad, so I wouldn't go with AM1 Semprons.

You said you had a real DVD player, so that takes away one shortcoming of the 130, you only have to worry if you go with a N.A.S.
If you go dual or higher then you'll have to transport .tp/.ts files by hand over to the 130 on a stick/CForSD card but that's not too much work for ya, is it?

Or 1150/1155 for Intel, and though Intel call it a Celeron, they are dual core, so as Terry said, you'll have to use the /onecpu switch upon booting/rebooting. The last single core Celeron was released as part of the Sandy Bridge line-up, and since then all Celeron G-series processors have been dual-core. I'll use what works for me ATM.

Read the newegg reviews, some denigrate it, but most are pleasantly surprised .
http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product...scrollFullInfo

Look for mine on page 3, 6 and 9 "Lone Browncoat" though on page six I was logged in as a member and that one just says"N/A"
but is subtitled 'followup' because I forgot to enter a name.

__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ __________________
Do me a favour though, I already am on a number of techie forums, could you cut & paste this for me into the thread you started?
I don't want to join that one, as I'll be treated as a noob.

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post #12486 of 12503 Old 08-09-2014, 04:50 PM
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OH! I ****ing hate this board upgrade, I went to the trouble of
proper punctuation, then when I post, this damn forum software
knocks it all to hell!
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post #12487 of 12503 Old 08-14-2014, 12:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by browncoat View Post
OH! I ****ing hate this board upgrade, I went to the trouble of
proper punctuation, then when I post, this damn forum software
knocks it all to hell!
I will respond to your post before the quoted one above, the long one. I've been up to my neck in issues involving my new NAS. 166GB of data mysteriously disappearing yesterday is cause for concern. Fortunately that data still exists on the HD that supplied it in the first place, however that HD and the 2 HDs in the NAS are suspect in terms of data/hardware integrity. Issues! I ran an extended test using WD Lifeguard Diag on the supplying drive and it looks like a good idea to remove the NAS's 2 HDs one at a time and run that test on each of them in turn in a 3.5" HD enclosure I have. I'm not close to resolving this. I just hope I don't have problems going forward due to data corruption, something I've experienced recently. I'd forgotten about a point you made about multi-core CPUs, that I'd have to disable one core in a dual core to run the MyHD app. Does that mean I should stick with a single core in the first place? I really do need a new mobo, etc. and will be pouring over your posts soon!

I believe it's also true that there will be no playing movies or TV recordings through the MyHD off of my NAS, correct? AFAIK, only local HDs or USB attached HD's will work with it. Seems a bit silly, but whatever.
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post #12488 of 12503 Old 08-14-2014, 12:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muse View Post
...
it looks like a good idea to remove the NAS's 2 HDs one at a time and run that test on each of them in turn in a 3.5" HD enclosure I have.
...
That was my plan, but I removed the wrong drive and tested it. BAD with Seagate's test which gave me a number that Seagate immediately accepted as proof the drive was bad.

I put it back in and could not rebuild the RAID 1 array. The drive I left in the NAS was also bad.

The only option was to ship the NAS drive down to Mexico and have Seagate ship me a new NAS.

Seagate took pity on me as I had shipped three packages to Mexico and upgraded me to a better NAS.

Plugged it in and no problems until one drive died. Ordered a replacement drive from Newegg, put it in and recovered all the data I wanted.

That bad drive is waiting to be tested in my backup HTPC, but S.M.A.R.T. money says it really is bad.

SHF
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post #12489 of 12503 Old 08-14-2014, 01:17 PM
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That bad drive is waiting to be tested in my backup HTPC, but S.M.A.R.T. money says it really is bad.

SHF
I'm wondering how useful it will be to run WD Datalifeguard Diag on the HDs, the extended test. AFAIK it either says PASS or FAIL. If it says PASS, how do I know it's really OK? Before I allocate 40 plus hours to doing all this, along with the hassle of putting the drives one at a time in the enclosure (which sits in the unopened box from Rosewill), I figure I should have some demystification of these issues... I have just been reading about SMART at Wikipedia, boy it's long and at times the technicals are just plain over my head. Take this description of Current Pending Sector Count:
- -
Count of "unstable" sectors (waiting to be remapped, because of unrecoverable read errors). If an unstable sector is subsequently read successfully, the sector is remapped and this value is decreased. Read errors on a sector will not remap the sector immediately (since the correct value cannot be read and so the value to remap is not known, and also it might become readable later); instead, the drive firmware remembers that the sector needs to be remapped, and will remap it the next time it's written.[36] However some drives will not immediately remap such sectors when written; instead the drive will first attempt to write to the problem sector and if the write operation is successful then the sector will be marked good (in this case, the "Reallocation Event Count" (0xC4) will not be increased). This is a serious shortcoming, for if such a drive contains marginal sectors that consistently fail only after some time has passed following a successful write operation, then the drive will never remap these problem sectors.
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post #12490 of 12503 Old 08-14-2014, 02:05 PM
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Hi,

First, does your NAS allow running the S.M.A.R.T test on the drives? Mine does.

Quote:
Short Selftest in HDD 1 has finished.
=== START OF READ SMART DATA SECTION ===
SMART overall-health self-assessment test result: PASSED

Quote:
Short Selftest in HDD 2 has finished.
=== START OF READ SMART DATA SECTION ===
SMART overall-health self-assessment test result: PASSED
So both of my drives just passed!




The number to watch is "Reallocated Sector Count". If that number starts to grow, replace the drive quickly.
That is the drive in my active HTPC.

Is the NAS a huge enclosure for just two drives? My is. The one I purchased was about the smallest case you could put two drives in with a 1" fan. That's a ONE INCH FAN. Horriable design that never should have been made.

The one I have now is huge and the replacement drive I put in is even smaller. Less heat, less failures.

-----------------------

You have two copies of the Linux OS, one on each drive. Lose both and you are dead in the water.

Linux you say! Of course. I downloaded the source for my first NAS, the Linux people blocked me from looking at the source for the replacement. Running tests on a drive outside the NAS will most likely erase the Linux OS.

The Linux people wrote the software and all the companies use it because it is FREE. That lowers their cost a lot.

Quote:
Take this description of Current Pending Sector Count:
That is a very good description.


If you have huge number of bad sectors (I did when I tested one drive) then replace the drive. Your time costs a lot, sending three boxes to Mexico $$, well the first time, after that Seagate paid UPS both directions.


SHF


BTW, copying a .ts file from my NAS to the local drive is very quick. There MyHD has no problem playing it and all the CPUs I paid for are in use at all times.
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post #12491 of 12503 Old 08-14-2014, 04:47 PM
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Originally Posted by SFischer1 View Post
....
I must be lucky in that regard, my only drive failures throughout the years were IDE drives I foolishly
got off eBay.

My SCSI Seagates [the Atari years] and my SATA Seagates have never let me down, the 4gig Fujitsu from the
[IDE..] conversion to Win '98 still works but as I've said before, I burned its' contents to DVD back in 2008.
Even the Maxtors [which people loved to put down] both IDE & SATA, are running and in use.

It must have something to do with jostling while being shipped, or certain lots that come out bad.

That 775 board I have turned out to be as bad as Muse's 754, there is no support for Vista or Windows 7 for it and
I couldn't even track down any Linux support, at least not yet, so I'm reluctant to spend any more on it, even if it
was just going to be an experimentation box. The oldest chipset I really want to work with was the one mentioned
two posts ago. So that 775 will probably be heading to a recycling depot.

Oh, and I forgot to mention, in a 32-bit system, you can invoke PAE or Physical Address Extension, I think Terry has mentioned it,
but it doesn't do much for us in dealing with the MyHDs, so I'd just leave it alone unless you have just the one computer and need it to be more than a HTPC/PVR/DVR.

In my Atari days, the BIG upgrade was in memory, for you do recall how expensive SIMMs were in those days.
The dream was to get a 16 Megabyte stick and pop it in your 520/1040, Mega/MegaSTE [the TT could take a whopping 256MB,if you had the scratch] but then you discovered that only 14 MB was accessible, because the on-board graphics [via the controller] was grabbing 2MB for itself. This was in the day when PCs were only running 640k in their OS, anything above was the hardware's.

Last edited by browncoat; 08-14-2014 at 05:26 PM. Reason: last thoughts.
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post #12492 of 12503 Old 08-14-2014, 05:39 PM
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Quote:
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I must be lucky in that regard, my only drive failures throughout the years were IDE drives I foolishly got off eBay.
...
Forgetting my 8 bit computer I have lost one 160 GB SATA and 4-5 1 TB drives in the original NAS. Too much heat and any drive will fail. What were they thinking.

Now one in the current NAS has been replaced due to S.M.A.R.T. failure. No data lost as the other RAID 1 disk was just fine. I suspect the air holes were clogged.

I just turned it off so I could lay it on it's side to clear the bottom holes. Too much dust, I need to get the can of air out twice a month, or did I skip a month?

Quote:
System will be shutdown in 0 minutes.
For further information about this notification, please refer to your product user guide.
Sincerely,
The Seagate Team
(E-Mail from Drive)

I did try JBOD on the current NAS but the Linux programmers did not test that mode so I went back to RAID 1 well before the S.M.A.R.T. failure.

Muse, you were in RAID 1 mode. Right?

It took a lot of digging on the Segate site to confirm the Linux software being used. I see a price of ~ $350 for your NAS. That might be above the point that a company can do their own programming and not use the FREE Linux software.

There is some software for Windows that can read the EXT 4 file system. I never got to that point.

My Wireless Router also runs Linux. One of the Linux people on the 8 - bit computer list got a Wireless router and immediately replaced the factory software with the original Linux software.

SHF
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post #12493 of 12503 Old 08-14-2014, 06:14 PM
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BTW, copying a .ts file from my NAS to the local drive is very quick. There MyHD has no problem playing it and all the CPUs I paid for are in use at all times.
I meant that too.

Yep, Heat is the No.1 enemy of electronics.

Your readings seem high....most of mine are lower, though the SSD shouldn't count, no physical
hardware except the micro-switches that make up the {NAND?} memory.

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post #12494 of 12503 Old 08-14-2014, 06:57 PM
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Quote:
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I meant that too.

Yep, Heat is the No.1 enemy of electronics.

Your readings seem high....most of mine are lower, though the SSD shouldn't count, no physical
hardware except the micro-switches that make up the {NAND?} memory.
SATA 600 says to me that your drives are newer.


Your drives look good, but I really only look at "Reallocated Sector Count". Only when that number grows do I look at any of the others. Zero and I am a Happy Camper. I saw numbers in 3 - 4 digits on one failed drive.

Ten days before a Camping Trip to Happy Camp I lost two (2) RAID 0 arrays. I could not get either built again. I thought I saw a benefit to MyHD playback with the RAID 0 arrays.

----------------------
Do you think Muse can put his drives in the cage and just read the S.M.A.R.T numbers if his NAS will not show them to him? Without touching the data at all. That's what S.M.A.R.T is all about IMHO.

Testing the entire surface today in a cool cage is no predictor of what failures will occur in a hotter case.

The S.M.A.R.T short test is as far I would go.


SHF
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post #12495 of 12503 Old 08-14-2014, 08:11 PM
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Drive T: spent two years in the old P4, but the rest started life
on this build.

I'm not bothering to build a NAS myself, I'm just getting this machine and the XP
PVR set up to read each others' drives, so once I get an HDHR, Play List Manager
can scan and put all .tp/.ts files in PVR's 130 file list or each others.
Still have work to do on that. Haven't mapped the drives yet.

I'm tired, going to bed.

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post #12496 of 12503 Old 08-15-2014, 01:18 PM
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NAS S.M.A.R.T Failure Report

Hi,

Well you made me finally do it. I have been think about putting the failed drive into my backup HTPC for some time, but things just do not get done these days.






Reallocated Sector Count

$FB6 = 4,022 Decimal, a number so high that the drive may be not be unusable for anything.

Reported Uncorrectable Errors

$B7 = 183 Decimal, that's really bad also.

My BIOS will not boot Windows 7 unless I tell it to proceed by pressing F1.

I say S.M.A.R.T in my NAS told me about the pending failure and correctly refused to use the drive any more.

The sad part is that Google reported 36% failures with no warning.

Always back up your data and always use RAID 1 in your NAS.

SHF
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File Type: jpg S.M.A.R.T FailureMore.jpg (79.8 KB, 38 views)

Last edited by SFischer1; 08-15-2014 at 03:28 PM. Reason: Darn double blank added lines
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post #12497 of 12503 Old 08-16-2014, 06:37 AM
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My Synology NAS will supply SMART data. It has a storage manager app installed by default, not an add-on, and it features a Quick and Extended test. I'm wondering if the Extended test is as good or better than WD Data Lifeguard Diagnostics Extended test and Windows' chkdsk. All 3 have been suggested to me by people in working through the problems I've been having, which include the mysterious disappearance of ~1/2 the data I copied over to the NAS the other day. I still have the data on one of my WD ELEMENTS 2TB HD's, but now I suspect that that HD is failing, how else to explain some corrupted files on it and the fact that data on the NAS has vanished?????

Yes, I'm in RAID 1, well, on the NAS. The HD that's supplying all my precious data is not in an array. I have backed it up periodically, sporadically, nothing organized about my former backup strategies and occasionally I've had to scramble. For instance, I had data corruption in a couple of database tables recently. A few records' info was unreadable. The bitch of it is that I have no way of knowing if a table has corrupted records unless I do something with the table, i.e. look for the screwed up data, and I have over 300 Foxpro tables of data. Well, there is a workaround for this conundrum, which is to make a copy of the table. If it has corrupt records the copy fails. Copying all the files using Windows' Copy command does not through an error, only if I copy using Foxpro's own Copy command. So, I'm going to work up a little Foxpro function to make copies of all my tables, sit here and monitor the progress. If no failures occur, great, I not only know my data's good (most likely), but I have a fresh backup of all the tables. Shouldn't take more than 1/2 hour to run, probably a lot less.

I think my Synology NAS is probably pretty reliable. I've read tons on reviews by owners, generally they are extremely pleased. Now, mine has a more powerful CPU than almost all of those, but at 1.6GHz it's probably still going to run pretty cool (knock on wood). The room it's in does get kind of warm in warmer weather, it's upstairs. A plan I'm hatching right now is to install large case fans in a window (2 or 3 200mm "silent" fans). That will reduce the heat problem in the room considerably, and utilize less than 10w to power them, plus they will not make much noise.

Yes, I paid $350 (B&H Photo, free shipping, tax=zero). I'm sure that Synology does a ton of their own programming, but use Linux base OS, so is free (I guess).

How do I interpret the Reallocated Sector Count? The SMART data, I don't know how to make sense of it. Is it the RAW figure that counts? Current, Worst, Threshold... what is the significance of those fields and their contents?



I have a thumbnail (presumably expandable) attached to this post that shows the SMART data and a sometimes on, sometimes off FAIL for the USB 2TB HD with my critical data. I'm not a SMARTie, so don't know what the dang data means, but to me, it doesn't look good. Why in the devil can't it make out the attributes for so many of the parameters???

How do you guys embed graphics in your posts? Do they have to be supplied by hosting sites, or is there a way I can embed downloaded graphics in these posts beyond the thumbnail I have here? Poking around I haven't been able to find anything.





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post #12498 of 12503 Old 08-16-2014, 10:29 AM
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Buy a new drive, S.M.A.R.T failed

Quote:
How do you guys embed graphics in your posts? Do they have to be supplied by hosting sites, or is there a way I can embed downloaded graphics in these posts beyond the thumbnail I have here? Poking around I haven't been able to find anything.
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/43-for...mage-post.html

I do it a bit different.

Upload the image to AVS.

Right click the image in the attachment list and select copy shortcut.

Find the place where you wish to insert the image and click on the insert image icon.

When the popup appears I just paste.

You cannot control the size of the image like you could with Huddler AVS but they may be working on that.


You have a S.M.A.R.T failure! Order a replacement or request warranty replacement.


That disk is unusable like the one that failed in my NAS .

I am running the long test which Seagate suggests "might" do a repair, but in any case that drive will never be in my NAS again.

The Attribute names and attribute numbers are very strange for "F:\" like you said.

Does "C:\" also look strange? If not then please use SpeedFan or CrystalDiskInfo to look at the S.M.A.R.T numbers.

Hopefully the names may be better. I am unsure where the S.M.A.R.T. data is kept and why what you posted is so funny. If SpeedFan or CrystalDiskInfo do not show better names, I would suggest you take that drive down to the bay as soon as possible to see how many times it skips on the water.

If the S.M.A.R.T. data is kept on the drive, the sectors keeping track of how many sector cannot be read could not be read (Catch 22).

How do I interpret the Reallocated Sector Count?

This webpage might be a little more clear to you:

http://www.hdsentinel.com/smart/index.php

SHF

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post #12499 of 12503 Old 08-16-2014, 10:45 AM
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I am rewriting this post and others as I did perhaps not understand what you have said. Trying again:


Please tell me if something sounds strange, my brain is not working too well sometimes, I have missed on the first 4 times reading what you said.

Quote:
mysterious disappearance of ~1/2 the data I copied over to the NAS
Mystery no more, you had a drive failure like you wrote above.

If "F:\" is a drive in your desktop then some of the data may just never gotten to the NAS.

"Some" of the data on the "F:\" drive can be recovered using tools like I used decades ago.

If you were very unlucky and had a failure in the NAS at the same time ...


Please report on the S.M.A.R.T. status of the drives in your NAS. I hope that it is good.


------------------------------------

Quote:
I'm wondering if the Extended test is as good or better than WD Data Lifeguard Diagnostics Extended test
I think they are the same, just read all the sectors on the disk and let the disk firmware do its thing.

Rereading if the sector can not be read the first time and marking it to not be used again or reporting failure and replacing the sector with one of the available sectors.

-----------------------
For disks in your NAS if it is running Linux:

Windows chkdsk is a non starter as the file system likely is Linux "EXT4". This also means that you cannot use any of the FAT32 / NTFS file recovery software you may have used in the past. RAID 1 is your only option to recover data unless you are a high powered Linux programmer. Yes I have read that there is at least one Windows program that can read EXT4 but it's use may be problematical.

SHF

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post #12500 of 12503 Old 08-16-2014, 01:06 PM
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The Long Test completed, about three hours for 1 TB.

The long test passed but the S.M.A.R.T failure was not cleared.

The S.M.A.R.T failure may have been my blocking (Unknowing) 50% of the air holes, and they are all small so dust builds up and blocks them.

There was mention online of some tools that could clear the S.M.A.R.T failure status but I will not look for one until Winter.

------------------------------

Waiting for your report that the drives in the NAS do NOT have the S.M.A.R.T failure. (I hope)

SHF

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post #12501 of 12503 Old 08-16-2014, 07:44 PM
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I'll describe the odyssey of ~1/2 the data on the NAS disappearing. That data was in and under a certain directory, by name \MP3. It included ~20 subdirectories which included files. All together ...\MP3\*.* contained ~166GB. I placed \MP3\*.* under a shared folder on the NAS. I subsequently decided a day or so later that since this was all audio files (and for the most part music), I should move all that data into and under the "music" folder of the NAS, a folder that was created when I installed Synology's Media Server app. I started a cut/paste using Windows Explorer, expecting not a cut/paste operation as one volume to another but essentially an allocation table reordering, something that should take a few minutes at most. But it was evident to me after a few seconds that this was not the case. The dialog indicated that this would take many hours. I stopped the operation and only 6 or so files were copied, possibly 1GB or so of data.

Next morning, instead of using Windows Explorer, I went into Synology's File Station app, which is installed by default when the OS is installed, the OS called DSM (Diskstation Manager). It was the first time I ever used File Station. I did a Cut/Paste operation, it seemed totally analogous to that operation in Windows Explorer. The operation took about 1 second, maybe less! I go, great! Then I look and to my astonishment the \MP3 folder had indeed disappeared from where it was and it was now in the music folder. However, there was only one single MP3 in it (~175MB .mp3 file), and no subdirectories! All attempts to discover where the other ~166GB of data went have turned up nothing. Sherlock Holmes would be baffled. I am baffled.

So, the NAS's HDs are suspect, although I think odds are they are OK. I talked to Synology support and the guy said he'd never heard of that happening. I figure it was probably because some of the data copied over from the original 2TB USB HD was corrupt (obviously, there is some chance that it's because of an egregious bug in the Synology software, but that seems less likely, and in any case I'm in no position to pursue that possible issue). Maybe it is indeed a problem with one of the NAS HDs, therefore I'm going to run DSM's Storage Manager's diagnostics, both Quick and Extended. I am right now copying all the data I care about from the 2TB USB drive whose SMART data is displayed in that image. I'm copying it to a separate 2TB USB HD, a Western Digital MyBook, which has had almost no usage. Copying that data has been a challenge. I really should use something more robust and useful than Windows' Copy command, but that's the only one with which I am familiar, I don't even know how to run Robocopy or any of the other more full featured copy functions. I MUST learn, though, maybe when I copy data back to the NAS after I'm satisfied that its HDs are OK, as satisfied as I can be, anyway.

The HD whose SMART data is in that image, that's the one that's been housing my most critical data, which as I think I said, I've been backing up from time to time. That HD is around 2.5 years old, and the warranty is 1 year, so I'm SOL in terms of warranty replacement. I will probably have to throw it into the bay, as you suggest. (actually, I'd likely open it and retrieve the powerful magnets inside!). I can keep the enclosure, which might come in handy in the event that one of my other WD ELEMENTS' enclosures (it's electronics) goes bad. I suppose there is some slight chance that the HD is OK but the enclosure's electronics have gone funky.

Thanks for the explanation of how to embed graphics in these forums, I'll go back now to that post and try to get that image to show beyond the thumbnail.

Edit: That worked, but it's not "copy shortcut" it's "copy link location," at least that's all I saw that looked similar and it worked, as you can see (I hope!).

That HD seems to be hanging on by a thread. That's why I'm copying data from it right now, before running anything else on it, such as chkdsk /r or whatever or defragging, both of which have been suggested. Some of that may help, may fix some things (such as a few mystery files (zero byte files that are meaningless for me, with file names such as ~TRi5.tmp and ~TRi7.mp3, yes literally those names) that refuse to be moved or deleted, Windows throwing an error saying the files are corrupt or unreadable). I just want to get data off the HD ASAP, before trying to run anything on it that might make matters worse!

To get data over to the NAS I figure I'll copy from the drive to which I'm copying right now, the WD MyBook.

I suppose I could start running diagnostics on the NAS's HDs now, but I figure the NAS might not be usable while I'm doing that. There's no hurry on that, my concern right now is just getting as good a copy of the original drive's data as I can, then I'll address the NAS HDs' health issue, then move over the best image of the data I have, in my estimation.

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post #12502 of 12503 Old 08-16-2014, 08:44 PM
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Quote:
I started a cut/paste using Windows Explorer, expecting not a cut/paste operation as one volume to another but essentially an allocation table reordering, something that should take a few minutes at most.
I have lost many Gigs of DTV Capture files by deleting the containing folder and not the single file I wanted to on my NAS. Once it started they could not be aborted. I watch too much DTV anyway, so no big loss.

I know little about Linux's "EXT4". If you have not added or deleted too many files on the NAS a Linux expert I really expect could get your music back from an exact copy of the drive. "EXT4" appears to be a great file system. No defrag needed and you seldom lose data just like NTFS.

I used a disk tool over a decade ago that could do it on a NTFS drive. It did quite a good job and was easy to use.

Quote:
Sherlock Holmes would be baffled.
Elementary Watson, the other files are still there. The FBI, NSA, CIA and Chloe O'Brian all could get them back. ~ Thirty years ago I got files back using a disk sector editor by hand. That is how I first learned about how disk file systems work. But if you have added too many new files the music ones may have been overwritten.

Quote:
I suppose there is some slight chance that the HD is OK ("F:\") but the enclosure's electronics have gone funky.
I have trouble understanding how the S.M.A.R.T. data could have been damaged, perhaps a power loss. There is a possibility that just the S.M.A.R.T. data sector is bad and you will get the data copied.


SHF
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post #12503 of 12503 Old 08-17-2014, 07:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SFischer1 View Post
I have lost many Gigs of DTV Capture files by deleting the containing folder and not the single file I wanted to on my NAS. Once it started they could not be aborted. I watch too much DTV anyway, so no big loss.

I know little about Linux's "EXT4". If you have not added or deleted too many files on the NAS a Linux expert I really expect could get your music back from an exact copy of the drive. "EXT4" appears to be a great file system. No defrag needed and you seldom lose data just like NTFS.

I used a disk tool over a decade ago that could do it on a NTFS drive. It did quite a good job and was easy to use.
I have a little Windows utility called Freeundelete that I've used a few times. It's somewhat klunky. You choose the volume and it shows you what it can undelete for you. You pick a folder in a volume to undelete to (it has to be a different volume), and it does it. I've done this with some MyHD recordings with good results, a handful of times. I'm not concerned with doing something like that on the NAS because I still have the files, at least I think I do. Right now I'm still copying files off the problem drive to one I think is good. I have the important stuff, but I'm having problems with my downloads directory for some reason. The copy command is throwing occasional errors such as folder/file name path is too long, and the command hangs, has to be canceled. I had a similar stoppage (didn't abort, though) when one of the files was read only (bah!). I don't know why it's doing the too long file name thing, I've copied my downloads folders many times in the past without those errors popping up. Damn Windows! Well, I think I'm almost done copying from the bum HD.



Quote:
Originally Posted by SFischer1 View Post
Elementary Watson, the other files are still there. The FBI, NSA, CIA and Chloe O'Brian all could get them back. ~ Thirty years ago I got files back using a disk sector editor by hand. That is how I first learned about how disk file systems work. But if you have added too many new files the music ones may have been overwritten.
Yes, I figure the CIA etc., Scotland Yard, could get the files off the NAS. Hmm. Maybe I should restore to factory defaults and start over again, I've already done that once with the NAS, around a week ago.



Quote:
Originally Posted by SFischer1 View Post
I have trouble understanding how the S.M.A.R.T. data could have been damaged, perhaps a power loss. There is a possibility that just the S.M.A.R.T. data sector is bad and you will get the data copied.


SHF
Data is copying, I'm just getting these annoying stoppages. Of course, I don't babysit the machine, I come back to it hoping the whole process is done and every time it's not done. Anyway, there's no goddamn hurry. So far, except for 1/2 the data going missing I'm pretty pleased with the NAS and I've just gotten my feet wet. Connectivity by my wirelessly connected machines hasn't been perfect, but so far appears to be about 10x better (1/10th the problems). That's been my biggest issue with the way I was doing things, well that and of course the lack of redundancy. I had another main network storage drive (same model as the current snafued one) go bad on me and I lost a lot of data! I hate that, hope to avoid data loss in the future.
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