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post #12691 of 12720 Old 01-21-2017, 11:50 AM
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Muse, IIRC, there is a pin on the DVI output that is supposed to be at +5 volt to signal a valid output being presented, but the daughterboard DVI output lacks that signal (under some circumstances?). There were reports of some monitors not showing a picture if that signal was absent. Your description sounds like those old reports. I think that Dave Plettner was one who reported on that and had a fix, but I didn't experience it and it's been too long for the leetle grey cells to render it up directly. I just searched the MetaFAQ and came up empty, but this post of Dave's may help. Otherwise, searching this thread for DVI references may turn up a better lead.

P.S.: For your configuration, do make sure that you have the Enable DVI box checked in MyHD Configuration.
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post #12692 of 12720 Old 01-21-2017, 02:02 PM
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Hmm. It seems to me that the change here is the video card. Setting things up like they were (granted, different mobo, CPU, RAM) I get nothing on the screens (desktop or projector, depending on the mechanical switch toggle).

Well, I have it working now but not the way I had it before, which was preferable. The way I had it before was Windows desktop displaying on my 23" monitor or projector screen, depending on the DVI switch toggle. Opening the MyHD app and sending the signal to HD sends HD to either the monitor or the projector (again, it's just the DVI switch toggle that decides where). That's the way I had it. But that isn't working. I get blank screens if I try that.

What is working is reversing the cables on the video card (both my old AGP card and the PCI-e that I'm using now are dual DVI). The net effect is that Windows boot screen and desktop displays on my 2nd desktop monitor, which is a 19" Eizo that has two DVI inputs and a VGA. It gets DVI from the 9600 GSO PCI-e card that I'm using now. The 23" monitor stays blank until I turn on HD in MyHD. I experimented with another setting I don't remember dealing with, which is using dual monitors, a setting in MyHD. Checking that box sends HD to the 23" monitor as soon as I open the MyHD app, not just when I hit the HD button in the app or emote. Toggling the DVI switch sends that TV image to the projector. So, it works. It's usable. Not as nice. I don't know if swapping out the 19" for a 23" would fix that. It could be that it's the 1920x1080 res that's the problem, the 19" uses 1280x1024. Anyway, it's usable as is. I can keep fiddling with stuff and maybe come up with a better setup. I messed with nView some (don't understand it all that very well, the nVidia Control Panel, etc.). I did that a few times and things just got real screwed up and I went back to zero by uninstalling the display and starting over, installing the video driver from a big EXE. Can maybe use nView still to get dual monitor Windows going... probably. But dual monitor isn't a big deal if I can't browse or access email. Maybe I'll get Win7 for the machine so I can do that. Anyway, I have a usable setup now, if not as handy as it was before the former mobo died.

I'll look at Dave's post there and see if it helps. Thanks!

Last edited by Muse; 01-21-2017 at 02:07 PM.
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post #12693 of 12720 Old 01-21-2017, 02:14 PM
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Oops. There's a problem. I'm making a test recording. I scheduled a recording to start at 1PM, and put the machine in suspend. I just came back, and was pleased to find that the machine was on. The two desktop monitors were blank. I figured they had dimmed from lack of activity, but clicking mouse or keyboard keys does not activate the screens.

Argh.

Going to have to turn off the machine with this keyboard sequence, which I've used quite a few times today:

Control+Alt+Delete
Alt+u
Down Arrow, Down Arrow
Enter

Edit: For some reason that combination is not turning off the machine. I'm going to have to lean on the power button.

Last edited by Muse; 01-21-2017 at 02:19 PM.
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post #12694 of 12720 Old 01-21-2017, 02:29 PM
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A little experiment had concerning result. Putting the machine in suspend by pressing the power button (I had so configured the machine in Power Options), I then press the power button again and I get a rather long tone (3-4 seconds), and the machine does a full POST/boot! Hmm.
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post #12695 of 12720 Old 01-21-2017, 02:56 PM
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Did you update the video card driver to AMD's latest (or PNY's recommendation) for your new card?
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post #12696 of 12720 Old 01-21-2017, 07:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TPeterson View Post
Did you update the video card driver to AMD's latest (or PNY's recommendation) for your new card?
Well, it's an Intel motherboard. The guy who sold it to me is pretty tech savvy and he posted me this:
---------------------------------------
http://us.download.nvidia.com/Window...it-english.exe

You'll need those drivers for the 9600GSO in XP.

---------------------------------------
That's the one I have installed. He posted me today this:

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Expecting power management to work in XP, especially with not all hardware drivers loaded (?), and not all updates installed, is probably an exercise in frustration.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Although I don't intend to browse with the machine evidently Windows Update is configured to automatically download and install updates. When I attempted to run WU a day or two ago it didn't work because I hadn't installed the LAN driver. Since doing that, WU has kicked in several times when I've restarted or shut down the machine, with messages such as:

Windows is installing 16 updates... etc.

The hardware drivers? I think I installed everything from the Gigabyte website for my board and XP.

Edit: Actually, looking now, maybe I didn't install everything that looks necessary. I don't believe I ran this:

motherboard_utility_DynamicEnergySaver_advanced.ex e


I'll run that now and see if that fixed the Suspend issue.

Edit: I doubt that will help. It's for reducing energy usage on machine running all the time, or I suppose in general. But I don't think it has anything to do with S3 suspend.

Is it possible that switching to S1 in CMOS will let MyHD's scheduled programs work in conjunction with suspend?

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post #12697 of 12720 Old 01-21-2017, 08:05 PM
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I was only focused on the lack of DVI output, not the mobo, and (my bad) I confused ATI (now AMD) and nVidia. If you're getting output from the daughterboard DVI it doesn't seem that you have the issue that I was vaguely remembering.

P.S.: Nobody should run S1. It's not really a suspend. You might as well just leave the damn thing in S0.
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post #12698 of 12720 Old 01-21-2017, 08:13 PM
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I just re-read your post about the suspend issue. If you have MyHD set to record in background, I'm not sure that the monitor actually should light up during a capture. However, moving the mouse or touching a key should light it. Ergo, there is a Windows configuration issue when that fails.

Obviously, most of us ran MyHD successfully on WinXP, but I haven't had a WinXP machine for years now and don't recall seeing what you describe, so I'm hopeful that it will be OK after WU has finished doing its thing.
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post #12699 of 12720 Old 01-21-2017, 09:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TPeterson View Post
I just re-read your post about the suspend issue. If you have MyHD set to record in background, I'm not sure that the monitor actually should light up during a capture. However, moving the mouse or touching a key should light it. Ergo, there is a Windows configuration issue when that fails.

Obviously, most of us ran MyHD successfully on WinXP, but I haven't had a WinXP machine for years now and don't recall seeing what you describe, so I'm hopeful that it will be OK after WU has finished doing its thing.
I don't have MyHD configured to record in background. Basically I always timeshift, so I like the option to start viewing at any point in the recording. I have always had an issue with getting the cursor to stop anywhere near where I want, but I deal with that... either with many key presses or by temporarily changing the increment of FF/REW (since 8x FF is always there for me, I never change that, but my 10 second REW can be way too many presses so I temporarily change that sometimes to 100 seconds until I'm near where I want to watch from).

Windows Update says that all critical updates have been installed. I don't know what I can try now. Yes, S1 seems stupid. It seems not much different from just the monitor going blank after N minutes.

I recall having this kind of issue with one of my older machines, maybe my current 2nd midtower, which is running Windows 2000. However, I think that machine is coming out of S3 suspend fine these days for whatever reason. I'm actually wondering if I should just use that machine for my MyHD stuff these days. I have a HDHR (in shrinkwrap still), so I suppose just one MyHD machine is all I'll need. I could update it to XP or maybe just leave it running Windows 2000! That machine doesn't have lip synch issues like my main midtower has all these years before the mobo died. So far, with this replacement mobo in it I don't see lip synch problems, which is great, and (fingers crossed) maybe it won't have the system lockups that I was having. However, not having coming out of S1 suspend is pretty much a killer for this system as is unless I can find a fix.
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post #12700 of 12720 Old 01-21-2017, 10:54 PM
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I have never used full-time timeshifting in conjuction with programmed captures, so I don't know what to expect there. I don't think that MyHD.exe is capable of performing both functions at the same time, so if a capture is in progress there could be no timeshifting.
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post #12701 of 12720 Old 01-23-2017, 12:33 PM
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The damn thing can only do one task at a time, scheduled recordings will take priority.
So for me, after the scheduled recording I always had to hit the pause button again to
put it back into full time live recording.
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post #12702 of 12720 Old 01-23-2017, 12:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TPeterson View Post
I have never used full-time timeshifting in conjuction with programmed captures, so I don't know what to expect there. I don't think that MyHD.exe is capable of performing both functions at the same time, so if a capture is in progress there could be no timeshifting.
I always have full-time timeshifting in effect. I suppose if I program a normal capture (i.e. not a "Watch") AND have suspend-between-captures checked, the machine will simply turn off at the end of the capture, just as it does with Watch captures. However, if the machine does not suspend at the conclusion of a capture and full time timeshifting is in effect, at the conclusion of any capture, timeshifting will continue indefinitely. I have come back to the machine many hours after a 1 hour capture concluded to find that I have many hours worth of .tp files in the \MyHD Buffer, approximately 8GB worth/hour recorded.

If full-time timeshifting is in effect the only way to stop recording is to either close the MyHD app (manually!!!) or shut off the machine (have MyHD do that with the appropriate setting in "Details" or shut off the machine manually).

Last edited by Muse; 01-23-2017 at 12:57 PM.
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post #12703 of 12720 Old 01-23-2017, 02:02 PM
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Muse, all of this action depends upon Windows being properly set up so that the machine will go into either S3 or S4 sleep at the end of its Power Options timeout. Have you confirmed that this works correctly on your new system? If so, I recommend setting MyHD to "exit" after and between captures.
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post #12704 of 12720 Old 01-23-2017, 05:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TPeterson View Post
Muse, all of this action depends upon Windows being properly set up so that the machine will go into either S3 or S4 sleep at the end of its Power Options timeout. Have you confirmed that this works correctly on your new system? If so, I recommend setting MyHD to "exit" after and between captures.
I have Windows configured to not go to sleep unless I press the power button or, of course, go to Turn Off Computer/Suspend. I didn't see S4 in BIOS, just a choice between S1 and S3, and I set it to S3. Asking Windows to go into Suspend ("Standby") seems to work just fine. I just haven't seen it wake up correctly yet. Sometimes when asked to come out of S3 Suspend it seems to waken (either from the MyHD scheduling service or pressing the power button, I also configured it in BIOS so I can waken it with a keyboard password, which seems to do the same thing as pressing the power button. It seems to waken but there's no response from anything, the monitors are blank, there's no response from keyboard. If Windows has started but there's no video, presumably this keyboard sequence should shut down the machine:

Control+Alt+Delete
alt+u
down arrow
down arrow
ENTER

Sometimes instead of becoming the waking dead when asked to come out of S3 Standby, the machine does a full restart except for one thing -- the short POST beep is absent. Otherwise it appears as though it's doing a Windows startup from a shutdown state.
- - - -
I didn't know you could configure MyHD to "Exit" after or between captures. Where is that setting?
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post #12705 of 12720 Old 01-23-2017, 05:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TPeterson View Post
Muse, IIRC, there is a pin on the DVI output that is supposed to be at +5 volt to signal a valid output being presented, but the daughterboard DVI output lacks that signal (under some circumstances?). There were reports of some monitors not showing a picture if that signal was absent. Your description sounds like those old reports. I think that Dave Plettner was one who reported on that and had a fix, but I didn't experience it and it's been too long for the leetle grey cells to render it up directly. I just searched the MetaFAQ and came up empty, but this post of Dave's may help. Otherwise, searching this thread for DVI references may turn up a better lead.

P.S.: For your configuration, do make sure that you have the Enable DVI box checked in MyHD Configuration.
Well, I didn't have this problem with the same monitor, same MyHD-130 card and same daughterboard before swapping out the mobo, GPU card, RAM, CPU and, of course, reinstalling XP 32bit and doing the knarly-as-usual mobo driver and XP updates.

I was having some disturbing problems Saturday, however, with the DVI cables going to the dual DVI PNY 9600 GSO PCI-e card. One of the pins of both cables (the blue loop cable that goes to the DVI in of the daughterboard and the cable that (when things are set up as intended) goes to the DVI out of the daughterboard. When and where plugged into the video card one pin on each was being bent so that I am sure it never made contact. I finally realized it was due to plastic being bent on the female DVI connection of the video card. When I realized that, I made some subtle changes on that connector so that the cables inserted correctly. However, those changes did not solve the problematical behavior.

That DVI cable that goes to the DVI out from the daughterboard only met the famale of the video card because I had to put it there in order to get video from Windows. As said, normally, it goes to the DVI out of the daughteboad. From there it goes to the in connector of the cheap-but-effective mechanical button-press A/B digital video switch I got from Monoprice that send the video signal to either my main desktop monitor or my projector.

Last edited by Muse; 01-23-2017 at 05:15 PM.
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post #12706 of 12720 Old 01-23-2017, 08:31 PM
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Muse, my thinking was along the following lines: If you're newly seeing the issue of lack of +5V on the DVI sense pin it could be due to a changed video card or driver if, say, the daughterboard passes that line straight through (which it shouldn't actually do, of course, but....) and the new card or driver treats that line differently; e.g., by not always presenting it with +5V.
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post #12707 of 12720 Old 01-24-2017, 12:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TPeterson View Post
Muse, my thinking was along the following lines: If you're newly seeing the issue of lack of +5V on the DVI sense pin it could be due to a changed video card or driver if, say, the daughterboard passes that line straight through (which it shouldn't actually do, of course, but....) and the new card or driver treats that line differently; e.g., by not always presenting it with +5V.
OK, I see. Well, can you imagine a work around? I suppose a different video card might work. I could try a different driver. I have another, I suppose I should try it. It's older, but WHQL certified, which the one I'm using isn't, AFAIK.
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post #12708 of 12720 Old 01-24-2017, 04:28 PM
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Hi Muse,


Terry pinged me about this earlier today. I first became aware if the issue from a Monoprice review, as described in this post:


MyHD MDP-130


Basically, the +5V signal is not supplied by the DVI daughter card, but it can be provided by a video card DVI output plugged into the loopback cable. A few more posts on this subject can be found using this search:


http://www.avsforum.com/forum/search...chid=141459225


I would not expect that this issue would be affected by the driver. Technically, this pin is not a logic signal, it's a power line that provides power to the display device so that the display device can return EDID data even when it is off. I have no idea how many milliamps are required by the DVI spec.


Pin 15 is the culprit, as described in this post:


MyHD MDP-130


-Dave
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post #12709 of 12720 Old 02-28-2017, 10:43 AM
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My new (actually used) Gigabyte EP45 UD3R motherboard is a big disappointment. Although MyHD crashes and lipsynch issues are evidently much abated, the machine hasn't succeeded on wakening to Windows (XP) a single time from suspend. It either goes into a partial boot loop (requiring me to turn it off manually) or it goes to a blank screen (i.e. Windows doesn't revive). Internet searches reveal that these problems are very common with this motherboard. I didn't know. I've tried "everything" including removing all PCI cards, the SATA burner, floppy drive, going to fail safe and optimized defaults in the Award BIOS. Nothing makes S3 suspend feature work. It's been suggested I invest in Windows 7 but I lack confidence that installing that will fix the problem based on what I'm seeing online.

Well, this is a socket 775 motherboard and I figure there are probably other socket 775 motherboards that I can try and likely be pleased with that will allow me to:

Keep the Q8200 quad core Intel CPU, the 2 sticks of 2GB DDR2-667 RAM and the dual DVI PNY GSO 9600 PCI-e video card that I bought along with the motherboard that's evidently the problem.

Does anyone know a socket 775 motherboard that will do S3 OK and will hopefully give me another PCI slot besides the one for the MyHD-130 (I need to accommodate the daughterboard too)?

I'm thinking an Asus maybe. I've never had one but heard good things about them. Any motherboard suggestion is welcome! Thank you.
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post #12710 of 12720 Old 02-28-2017, 11:01 AM
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You don't mention if the BIOS is the latest version for that mobo. Other than that, I don't have any good suggestions, except to agree that W7 may work better.
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post #12711 of 12720 Old Yesterday, 09:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TPeterson View Post
You don't mention if the BIOS is the latest version for that mobo. Other than that, I don't have any good suggestions, except to agree that W7 may work better.
It's running BIOS F12, which I believe is the latest. It's been suggested I run Win7 in a trial type situation and evaluate. I think I'll do that. I've never run Windows in a trial before, guess I can do that as a download. Actually, I have an OEM disk, can maybe install from that and run 30 days or something. First, I'll back up the XP installation. However, I am not confident at all that that XP install is trouble free. I'm considering reinstalling. In any case, I intend to install Windows on a couple of other partitions on the machine. Maybe I'll install Win7 on the 2nd partition. If I decide that doesn't do anything for me I can nuke the installation. Still, I suspect that the last word will be that this mobo just won't work with S3 and that another mobo would. Suggestions appreciated! Anyone?
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post #12712 of 12720 Old Yesterday, 06:46 PM
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... I have an OEM disk, can maybe install from that and run 30 days or something. ... Suggestions appreciated! Anyone?
A OEM install disk can only be installed on a new clean (Repeat CLEAN) disk with no other OS!

Other disks may need to be disconnected.

It may be necessary to "NUKE" the partition table, overwriting with zeroes was the option I used. You can choose the W7 partition table size during the install and after the install and activation are done add additional partitions.

I finally figured that out but no one actually said that.

Now, retail fully paid disks can be installed on a new computer every 3-6 months without any problems. Just don't try and activate two systems at the same time.

I will be installing my Retail W7 disk on a new MB (CPU, Memory new?) as soon as I order and take delivery, but that is still months down the rocky road. Installing the kitchen sink is a priority. NO Hot water for 20 weeks now and nothing may happen until I am dead.

SHF

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post #12713 of 12720 Old Yesterday, 07:10 PM
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Originally Posted by SFischer1 View Post
A OEM install disk can only be installed on a new clean (Repeat CLEAN) disk with no other OS!

Other disks may need to be disconnected.

It may be necessary to "NUKE" the partition table, overwriting with zeroes was the option I used. You can choose the W7 partition table size during the install and after the install and activation are done add additional partitions.

I finally figured that out but no one actually said that.

Now, retail fully paid disks can be installed on a new computer every 3-6 months without any problems. Just don't try and activate two systems at the same time.

I will be installing my Retail W7 disk on a new MB (CPU, Memory new?) as soon as I order and take delivery, but that is still months down the rocky road. Installing the kitchen sink is a priority. NO Hot water for 20 weeks now and nothing may happen until I am dead.

SHF
Good to know. Now, IIRC, Win7, at least the OEM version is no longer available. I think it was October and Microsoft stopped selling it. Maybe the full retail version is still available, I haven't looked (I will). I could use 2-3 copies of Win7! At least 2. Well, one of those machines might be able to run Win10, gotta check that out.

Good luck with the sink. Yes, priorities!!!
- - -
Edit: Actually, I'm seeing many versions of Windows 7 at Amazon. It's bewildering. Guess I'll have to read the customer reviews.

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post #12714 of 12720 Old Yesterday, 07:33 PM
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Quote:
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...
- - -
Edit: Actually, I'm seeing many versions of Windows 7 at Amazon. It's bewildering. Guess I'll have to read the customer reviews.
DO NOT GIVE ANYONE MONEY except http://www.microcenter.com/

REPEAT DO NOT GIVE ANYONE MONEY except http://www.microcenter.com/



I did twice but BofA got my money back.



REPEAT DO NOT GIVE ANYONE MONEY except http://www.microcenter.com/



SHF

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Newegg is also a decent place to get Windows 7. There is no direct upgrade path from XP to Windows 7 so a clean install will be performed regardless of whether you have an OEM or Retail disc and license.

The only way to do an "in place" upgrade is to go from XP to Vista, then from Vista to Windows 7.

OEM Install media should allow you to do a "custom" install that will rename your old windows folder to Windows.000 (or something similar) but wiping the partition table shouldn't be necessary.

RAID protection is only for failed drives. That's it. It's no replacement for a proper backup.
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post #12716 of 12720 Old Yesterday, 11:46 PM
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Newegg is also a decent place to get Windows 7. ...
I agree with Newegg, most of my purchases are there. I am surprised that they have W7 stock. Remember W7 is good only until 2020. Exactly January 14, 2020.

If it is a real OEM W7 disk then good luck without a clean disk. Maybe OSs before W7, but Original Equipment Manufactures have a different license from W7 Retail.

Installing W7 without a clean Hard Disk is not allowed and is illegal and will be detected and you cannot activate it.

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post #12717 of 12720 Old Today, 12:03 AM
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I agree with Newegg, most of my purchases are there. I am surprised that they have W7 stock. Remember W7 is good only until 2020. Exactly January 14, 2020.

If it is a real OEM W7 disk then good luck without a clean disk. Maybe OSs before W7, but Original Equipment Manufactures have a different license from W7 Retail.

Installing W7 without a clean Hard Disk is not allowed and is illegal and will be detected and you cannot activate it.

SHF
If you're using an OEM disc from a large manufacturer such as Dell then you may have trouble activating, because their disc will attempt to install and activate with an SLP key (though you should still be able to activate by changing to the proper key prior to activation) Using a generic OEM install media such as those available from Newegg won't install any key by default, instead, prompting you to enter the OEM key just as any other version would. The only thing it will "recognize" during install is if the primary partition has a folder named "Windows" in it, which it will rename (assuming you didn't format previously) but it doesn't verify if that folder has XP, Vista, 7, or anything in it. It simply renames the folder and installs a fresh copy of the OS.

There is nothing illegal about installing an OEM version of Windows on a hard drive that already has information or another OS on it. There are requirements to qualify as a valid OEM system, but a clean hard drive is not one of them. The only practical difference between the OEM and Retail versions of Windows are the Retail version can do an in-place upgrade from Vista, while the OEM can't.

RAID protection is only for failed drives. That's it. It's no replacement for a proper backup.
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post #12718 of 12720 Old Today, 06:56 AM
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The only practical difference between the OEM and Retail versions of Windows are the Retail version can do an in-place upgrade from Vista, while the OEM can't.
I think I was told that if I install an OEM version of Windows 7 on a machine I cannot later use that disk on a different machine.

I'll explain my confusion with this scenario:

I have machine X. I install Windows 7 from an OEM disk (not manufacturer specific which would require an SLP). I later buy a later version of Windows for machine X, say 8.1 or 10, don't upgrade, just buy a later version of Windows and install it. My "understanding" is that I can't use that Windows 7 OEM disk to install Windows on machine Y. But if I start this whole scenario with a retail version of Windows 7, I can install Windows 7 on machine Y after having used it initially on machine X. Is this incorrect?

I don't much care about in-place upgrades of Windows. My experience has been that fresh installs behave better/faster. Installing all my apps and utilities is a lot of work, but I just do it. I have all that stuff, the disks, downloads or just find and install the latest versions from the Internet (trying to be careful to avoid anything that might have spyware or worse embedded).

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post #12719 of 12720 Old Today, 10:47 AM
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I think I was told that if I install an OEM version of Windows 7 on a machine I cannot later use that disk on a different machine.

I'll explain my confusion with this scenario:

I have machine X. I install Windows 7 from an OEM disk (not manufacturer specific which would require an SLP). I later buy a later version of Windows for machine X, say 8.1 or 10, don't upgrade, just buy a later version of Windows and install it. My "understanding" is that I can't use that Windows 7 OEM disk to install Windows on machine Y. But if I start this whole scenario with a retail version of Windows 7, I can install Windows 7 on machine Y after having used it initially on machine X. Is this incorrect?

I don't much care about in-place upgrades of Windows. My experience has been that fresh installs behave better/faster. Installing all my apps and utilities is a lot of work, but I just do it. I have all that stuff, the disks, downloads or just find and install the latest versions from the Internet (trying to be careful to avoid anything that might have spyware or worse embedded).
Yes and no. In this case the install media has no particular limitation as such, and will let you install on any number of machines. It's the key that comes with it that is limited, as well as the license itself. The OEM license is non-transferable unlike the retail version. With large OEMs it's pretty cut and dry, but with a generic OEM license there are some gray areas since the line between what is a hardware upgrade vs an entirely new system is often blurred. (See: Ship of Theseus Paradox)

RAID protection is only for failed drives. That's it. It's no replacement for a proper backup.
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post #12720 of 12720 Old Today, 11:12 AM
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Yes and no. In this case the install media has no particular limitation as such, and will let you install on any number of machines. It's the key that comes with it that is limited, as well as the license itself. The OEM license is non-transferable unlike the retail version. With large OEMs it's pretty cut and dry, but with a generic OEM license there are some gray areas since the line between what is a hardware upgrade vs an entirely new system is often blurred. (See: Ship of Theseus Paradox)
Ah, well, I'll check the microcenter and newegg offerings. Grey area! Hmm. Theseus !!! That was the name of the app that I was hired to work on in my first programming job back 20 years ago. Theseus was a Greek god (?) or character who went into a deep deep cavern and unrolled a long ball of yard or such so that he could find his way out, IIRC.
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