DVICO Fusion 5 HDTV tuner - Page 16 - AVS Forum
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post #451 of 2932 Old 08-17-2005, 05:02 PM
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The picture quality on the Fusion3Gold is comparable to the Fusion5Lite, but as I said, with the Fusion5Lite, I'm able to receive more digital channels. Recording OTA is comparable to both cards, but since the Fusion5Lite can't record analog input, I can't make the comparison. BTW, although you could record analog with the Fusion3Gold (and Fusion5Gold), I found that a TV tuner card with a hardware MPEG2 encoder works better than the analog recording of a Fusion. I had a Hauppauge 250 analog TV tuner card with a hardware MPEG2 encoder, and my analog recordings look better there than the recording off my Fusion3Gold. Since external analog recording is not high on my priority list, I opted for the Fusion card and its very good digital recording capability. As far as I know, everything the Fusion does is done in software, so the MPEG2 encoder on the Fusion3Gold and the Fusion5Gold is software encoding.

Best wishes in your choice.
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post #452 of 2932 Old 08-17-2005, 05:22 PM
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statix,

Thank you very much for the word of caution, and I will take it to heart, but why should I avoid them? Thanks much.

Micmel2,

when you say the fusionhdtv5 lite can't record analog, do you mean just from svideo and rca, or can it not even record analog coax (i.e., cable, ota analog)?

So the fusion cards don't have hardware encoding for analog then. Too bad, I really wanted that. However, micmel, when you do record in analog, does it work? Or is it very stuttery? Also, is the quality pretty much crap, or is it ok (for analog)?

My main question, though, is can the fusionhdtv5 lite really not record an analog cable signal?

Thanks for all your help, guys.
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post #453 of 2932 Old 08-17-2005, 05:48 PM
 
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The Fusion Lite has a 8 bit A/D hardware capability.
The Fusion5 Gold has a 10 bit A/D hardware capabiltiy.
You can see this on the DVICO specification and comparison pages.
Does not make sense to say there is NOT a hardware encoding capability??
Can anyone through some light on this?
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post #454 of 2932 Old 08-17-2005, 05:53 PM
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Yes, I am very confused, too. The Dvico website also states that the FusionHDTV5 " Includes MPEG encoder for analog TV/video recording". You'd think that'd mean hardware, but I guess they could be referring to a software encoder.

Either way, I emailed Dvico regarding this, hopefully they'll be nice and give me an honest answer.
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post #455 of 2932 Old 08-17-2005, 06:50 PM
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Quote:


The Fusion Lite has a 8 bit A/D hardware capability.
The Fusion5 Gold has a 10 bit A/D hardware capabiltiy.
You can see this on the DVICO specification and comparison pages.
Does not make sense to say there is NOT a hardware encoding capability??
Can anyone through some light on this?

Quote:


Yes, I am very confused, too.

NOT encoder! What they are referring to is the analog decoder used in each card; specifically:
the 878A for the Lite and the cx2388x for the gold

I'll try to dig up a few posts that will probably help you out.

Quote:


The Dvico website also states that the FusionHDTV5 " Includes MPEG encoder for analog TV/video recording". You'd think that'd mean hardware, but I guess they could be referring to a software encoder.

They are indeed referring to a software MPEG2 encoder
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post #456 of 2932 Old 08-17-2005, 07:39 PM
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I mean to say that the Fusion5Lite cannot record externally via the s-video/RCA plugs. If you look closely at the picture for the Fusion5Gold and Fusion5Lite, you will notice that the Lite doesn't have the s-video input, but the Gold does. Recording via the s-video input (from my Fusion3Gold) card was fine, i.e. without any studder, but as I said, I thought the MPEG2 encoder from the Hauppauge 250 was better. The main reason why I thought the Hauppauge MPEG2 encoder was better was the fact that I can set the bitrate for the MPEG2 encoding to a very high rate, i.e. 12Mbps, whereas with the Fusion card IIRC is at a much lower maximum bitrate. That alone, made a big difference in the quality of the capture.

Since I don't have cable, I can't speak for the QAM/analog coax recording.
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post #457 of 2932 Old 08-17-2005, 09:08 PM
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Thanks all for your clarification.

For those of you who have done mpeg 2 encoding of analog signals, including micmel 2, can you set a higher bitrate? Also, I'm guessing that these cards won't work too well with mediaportal when it comes to analog signals, since the cards use software. Correct?

Also, to those of you who record analog signals (again), how much processing power does it take up?

Thanks much for your help, just trying to figure out if I could do analog and digital signals of great quality with these cards.
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post #458 of 2932 Old 08-17-2005, 11:39 PM
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The highest quality you can set for an analog recording with the Fusion card is to set it to DVD resolution (720X480) at a maximum bitrate of 6000bps. It doesn't look too bad, but I know that is subjective in my part. When recording in analog, you have a choice as to record in VCD, SVCD, DVD, MPEG2, or MPEG1 resolution with bitrates up to a max of 6000bps.

I have an Athlon 2000+XP system with 768MB memory, and my system has no problem recording at the max, i.e. DVD resolution @ 6000bps. Unfortunately, the Fusion software doesn't support variable bitrate capture, just constant bitrates.
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post #459 of 2932 Old 08-18-2005, 07:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Milihpen View Post

statix,

Thank you very much for the word of caution, and I will take it to heart, but why should I avoid them? Thanks much. .

Because someone on the Internet that you don't know told you that you should! Don't you know how these things work?

Both companies have very good reputations here and I've ordered twice with DC without issue. My only complaint about DC is that they don't (or didn't then) have any shipping options that are not FedEx.
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post #460 of 2932 Old 08-18-2005, 01:21 PM
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Thanks so much for your help, guys. Unfortunately, do to the lack of hardware encoding for the analog portion, I'm going to have to skip the fusionhdtv5.

Instead, for now, I'm going all-analog (snickers). Thinking of either the WinTV PVR 150 or Visiontek Xtasy theater 550 pro (leaning toward the 550 due to its fm tuner, and higher-quality ntsc tuner, although it does lack a remote...).

In the future, when I get some more extra money, or I get a nice deal on a fusion, I'll definitely get one in addition to my analog card. Then I'll have (hopefully this'll all work nicely in Mediaportal)

an HDTV tuner (fusion) for viewing and recording
an analog tuner (one of the two listed above) for viewing and recording analog
an existing TV Wonder (yes, it's crappy, but...) solely for viewing analog
and the analog tuner in the fusion solely for viewing analog

wow, that's a lot. hopefully it'll all work.

Thanks again, guys, for all your help. The FusionHDTV5 looks great for hdtv, and I'll definitely be getting it soon, but for now, my main concern is the PVR-like functions that I can use with my cable through a hardware encoder.

P.S.: anybody know if the quality of the ntsc tuners in the wintv pvr 150 and the visiontek xtasy 550 pro are fairly similar? If they are, then I'll have to weigh the remote versus fm tuner areas...oh, decisions, decisions.
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post #461 of 2932 Old 08-18-2005, 01:26 PM
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--lack of hardware encoding--

Huh. I can run this card on a Duron 900 system. I will gladly trade hardware encoding for my choice of software.
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post #462 of 2932 Old 08-18-2005, 02:28 PM
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e vey, I know what you mean, and for digital, the card must rule, but right now, a majority of the tv I watch is on cable (although that is changing), and with the FusionHDTV5, I couldn't timeshift analog in Mediaportal, analog recording in MP would be sketchy at best, and it would eat up my cpu.
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post #463 of 2932 Old 08-19-2005, 10:03 AM
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I got the 5 Gold Plus recently, but i have a hard time to figure out how to configure the remote control. The manual is full of wrong information, and I think it is based on the on remote model, as some of the button just not on the new remote, or label differently at least.

I would like to map the quick lauch buttons on top of the remote to different programs, but I can't find a way to do it. Are they hard code to that particular program? Right now MP3 button maps to WinAMP, DVD maps to PowerDVD. I would like to map the mp3 button to Windows Media Player. How to do it if it is possible? It is very strange and unfriendly to user if it is not configurable.

Thanks
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post #464 of 2932 Old 08-21-2005, 02:08 AM
 
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well, my problem is the Fusion will not tune FOX (RF 35) in Dallas
well at least in MCE, it will not tune FOX at all

I have ran the Fusion channel scanner
it finds FOX and has a strong signal
then I open the HDTV Fusion app and run the channel scanner in the app
but it will not add FOX to my channel line up
I can manually add RF35 to my channel list in the Fusion software
but the Fusion software will not detect that it is KDFW DT like other channels which I added manually

I have a strong feeling these problems are related
I started an account with Dvico over a month ago
and informed them of the problem
and they said they would fix it ASAP
but every new driver from them does nothing

furthermore this is specualation, but it seems the Fusion HDTV 5 has issues with channels adjacent frequencies
FOX is RF35 and KDFI (local independent) is RF36
UPN is RF18 and CBS is RF19

when doing the channel scanning in the Fusion HDTV app
neither RF35 or RF18 get added although there signal strength is high enough for reception
I added manually RF18 and the Fusion app detects it is KTXA UPN

anyways, would I have better luck with the Avermedia A180?
my Sony TV has no trouble picking up all my DTV stations
and most of the time with better signal strength
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post #465 of 2932 Old 08-25-2005, 06:34 AM
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I just added a Fusion5Lite to my system (/W MyHD MDP-120) and it completely killed my on-board audio device. I removed the card and did a complete reinstall of windows and STILL have no sound device in windows XP. I had to add in an old SB Live and use up my last PCI slot (which means no place for the Fusion5Lite in this machine). I'm still baffled, but somehow simply installing the Fusion completely removed the on-board sound on my motherboard. I put the Fusion in another PC with on-board video and have sound for digital channels, but no video. Analog channels have video but no sound. I wonder if my card is defective or the limitations of the on-board video are preventing anything but a black window to appear on digital channels. I know the on-board video is a rage chip. The sound on analogs may simply be a problem with the jumper cable from the soundcard to the fusion. Anyone have any advice? The PC I put the Fusion in has no AGP slot. What is a good PCI-x video card? I suspect the Celeron chip isn't helping that system much either, but I do want to see HD video on the thing.
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post #466 of 2932 Old 08-25-2005, 09:29 AM
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Ben, your problems seem to be resource conflicts. I suggest that you make sure that Windows is set up to use ACPI (look under "computer" in device manager) and that the AGP or equivalent PCIx video aperture is as big as the video RAM allocation. Then I'd try shuffling PCI cards to see if the conflicts can be resolved.
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post #467 of 2932 Old 08-25-2005, 10:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TPeterson View Post

Ben, your problems seem to be resource conflicts. I suggest that you make sure that Windows is set up to use ACPI (look under "computer" in device manager) and that the AGP or equivalent PCIx video aperture is as big as the video RAM allocation. Then I'd try shuffling PCI cards to see if the conflicts can be resolved.


Well I've already decided on that first PC to leave MyHD alone and not try to put the fusion back in there. No idea why a fresh install of windows didn't detect the onboard sound. It is enabled in the system BIOS. I've never seen this behavior before.

Now onto the second PC, I don't think the system has the minimum requirements for the mpeg2 part of the F5 (I assume analog channels are displayed different?). The rage chip on the mobo only has something like 8MB memory. Being HD is more resource-intensive I suspect I need a much better video card to see the video. I captured a transport stream with the F5 and edited it just fine with HDTVtoMPEG2. It plays great in MyHD on the other PC. I don't see a way to disable the on-board video on this machine (It's a Gateway 9210 server), so I am hoping I can pop in a PCIx video card and disable the onboard video in windows. I'm looking to purchase this video card: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814102528
EDIT: PCIe is not PCI-X. Since the PCI-X slots are backwards compatible with PCI a standard PCI video card should do.

I forgot to mention this Gateway is running XP MCE 2005. Maybe that's my problem? Also forgot to mention I ran the fusion demo software on this PC last week before buying the card and it failed with overlay failed or some error. I didn't get that error with the software that came with the card. I'll also try the latest software from Dvico.
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post #468 of 2932 Old 08-25-2005, 06:16 PM
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Does anyone know if this card will tune cable channels abouve channel 125 (800MHz)? Unfortunately, my unencrypted locals are above 125.

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post #469 of 2932 Old 08-25-2005, 08:25 PM
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Hey,

my brother just got one of these cards shipped to him and he has a problem. One of the capacitors on his card fell off in shipment (because they ship the bare card in the same box with the remote control and cd without padding!). I read a review of the Fusion 3, the same exact thing happened to the reviewer.

I'm wondering if anyone else has had build quality problems with their card, especially regarding bad solder points, etc. If you have I'd love to hear about it, since I'm also interested in the Fusion5 but am now a bit apprehensive about the quality.

here's the review: http://www.systemcooling.com/dvico_fusion-02.html
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post #470 of 2932 Old 08-25-2005, 10:58 PM
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WTF?

My Fusion5.....AND my Fusion3 both came secure in the box. The cards were separated from the accessories by cardboard, foam padding, and of course, an anti-static bag. They were both in retail packaging. Not sure if they ever ship in OEM boxes...? I ordered both of my cards from Copperbox.

Justin
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post #471 of 2932 Old 08-26-2005, 02:15 AM
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I received a Fusion 5 Lite on Wednesday in a sealed DVICO box. It was in a static bag, but was loose in the box with the booklet, CD, audio cable & f-connector extender - all loose. Fortunately, nothing was damaged on the card.
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post #472 of 2932 Old 08-26-2005, 06:24 AM
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Yeah, my Fusion 3 came in a sealed box with the card in a static bag bouncing around in the box with the CD and manual. No damage, but I thought "this looks dangerous".
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post #473 of 2932 Old 08-26-2005, 06:45 AM
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Mine from Copperbox the other day came exactly the same with the card banging around the box with the manual and faceplate. I was thinking "what if my card came broken?". Of course I still have no video output on digital channels either. I did fix the audio on analog channels and it was real easy to fix (don't forget to plug in the analog connector to your sound device)

I hope adding a Radeon to my system will give me the video for digital channels. I don't think the 8MB onboard video is cutting it for digital. I hope that is the case.
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post #474 of 2932 Old 08-26-2005, 09:10 PM
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My card from digitalconnection came in an OEM box with foam separating the card. My indoor antenna came 2 days later, it's working perfectly fine here in NYC. Too bad, i dun think it will work once i get back to my dorm... Beautiful quality, damn widescreen....
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post #475 of 2932 Old 08-26-2005, 09:16 PM
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I just installed a clean installation of 3.1 Beta 2. I'm surprised that it's actually working quite well after playing with it for about 30 minutes or so. It feels less clunky than ever. I guess all these frequent updates and beta testing is paying off.

Can your HTPC Media Center / DVR Do this??

SageTV: Unrestricted full-quality 12 tuner HD Premium Cable recording, including "On Demand" in HD + OTA ATSC + DVB-S2 + Blu-ray/HD-DVD serving 5 clients.
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post #476 of 2932 Old 08-26-2005, 09:29 PM
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--Too bad, i dun think it will work once i get back to my dorm... --

Don't be so negative.
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post #477 of 2932 Old 08-27-2005, 07:26 AM
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It's just that my dorm is too far from the towers that broadcast the digital stations. But i guess i can still use the analog part of it, but darn! I can't timeshift analog channels with the FusionHDTV, any work arounds?
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post #478 of 2932 Old 08-27-2005, 11:18 AM
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This soundsl ike what I need to turn my PC into an HDTV. But question.

We have IO Digital cable. Has anyone else tried to receive IO signals with this card and been succesfull? I'd want to at least be able to receive gameshow network, wich would be abig plus without having to get another cable box for upstairs..

Thanks!
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post #479 of 2932 Old 08-27-2005, 11:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shredder121 View Post

This soundsl ike what I need to turn my PC into an HDTV. But question.

We have IO Digital cable. Has anyone else tried to receive IO signals with this card and been succesfull? I'd want to at least be able to receive gameshow network, wich would be abig plus without having to get another cable box for upstairs..

Thanks!

If "gameshow network" is not an OTA broadcast that your cable company is carrying in its basic tier, you won't be reliably able to receive it with any HDTV card, because the cable company will be allowed to encrypt it if they see fit.
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post #480 of 2932 Old 08-27-2005, 12:47 PM
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Well, I finally got the answer I was looking for with cable vision. Apparently their channels ARE encrypted, so you would need a seperate decoder to receive them. They offered me their digital cable box, but the last thing I need is another seperate 5$ charge on the cable bill per month. So, now we need to find a good HDTV decoder that I can hook the board up to. Anyone got any recomendations?
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