Convolver DSP plug-in for Windows Media Player 10 - Page 2 - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #31 of 326 Old 07-14-2005, 08:41 AM
Newbie
 
melavi's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Paris
Posts: 9
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
i just make fast test with a same impuls for each channel, i make it with adobe audition (6 wave in 1).
melavi is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #32 of 326 Old 07-14-2005, 09:32 AM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
jrpavel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 297
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Is there any way that you can let me have your filter, please, so that I can try it?
jrpavel is offline  
post #33 of 326 Old 07-14-2005, 09:47 AM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
jrpavel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 297
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Ed's measuring tool is windows-executable, if you look around the duffroomcorrection site.

The Jones Guide leads you to a PCM file. To get it to work with Convolver, you will need to save it as a WAV file.
jrpavel is offline  
post #34 of 326 Old 07-14-2005, 05:56 PM
Newbie
 
melavi's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Paris
Posts: 9
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by jrpavel View Post

Is there any way that you can let me have your filter, please, so that I can try it?

Hello,
i send you a email
melavi is offline  
post #35 of 326 Old 07-14-2005, 07:53 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Mark_A_W's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 8,110
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by jrpavel View Post

Ed's measuring tool is windows-executable, if you look around the duffroomcorrection site.

The Jones Guide leads you to a PCM file. To get it to work with Convolver, you will need to save it as a WAV file.

Hmm, I had a look, and downloaded rec_imp.zip again...and there's no file in there that I can run...

Help! What am I missing?

Loving my Electric Bike!!
Mark_A_W is offline  
post #36 of 326 Old 08-06-2005, 06:11 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
jrpavel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 297
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I have just put up on http://convolver.sourceforge.net/ a new release (1.19) that offers the option of using partitioned convolution, with reduced lag and possible performance improvement.

Ed's RecImp tool can be compiled into a Windows executable.

Others have tried the DRC route, and tried to combine the individual channel impulse responses that it produces into a single (5.1) WAV file using Audition. Unfortunately the Audition-generated WAV file does not seem to be interpreted correctly by Convolver.

I will investigate this further. In any case, I need to replace the Microsoft-provided example file that I use for reading WAVs with a GPL equivalent, such as libsndfile or libaudiofile.

Feedback welcome.
jrpavel is offline  
post #37 of 326 Old 08-12-2005, 05:21 AM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
jrpavel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 297
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
A further build (1.21) has some more optimizations.

The optimum attenuation is now calculated correctly.

There are also a number of command line utilities (eg, perftest to allow you to see how your filter performs with different partition lengths). and makeIR allows you to generate a filter from a text file specification).

Let me know how you get on with it.

Although Convolver will be visible to ffdshow, I now want to spend more time on the DirectShow wrapper and to recognise a wider range of filter file formats. I have at least one example of multi-channel files generated by Audition not being interpreted correctly.

Happy convolving / duff room correction.
jrpavel is offline  
post #38 of 326 Old 08-18-2005, 07:42 PM
Newbie
 
melavi's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Paris
Posts: 9
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Hello Jrpavel

Happy to see that convolver has been updated
I have pb to make a correct multiwave file.
I have multiple mono.txt or mono.wav.
I just have to make a copy/past and use makeIR but it s too long, maybe with office word or exel there is a tips?

Regards,
Avi
melavi is offline  
post #39 of 326 Old 09-03-2005, 03:58 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
jrpavel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 297
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I have just put a further release up (1.23).

It supports a greater variety of filter file formats and is slightly faster. See the notes on http://convolver.sourceforge.net

I suggest that you try this release (or 1.21) as 1.22 was broken when used with more than one partition.

Creating stereo or multi-channel wav files from mono files can be accomplished with Adobe Audition or a utility like SoX. MakeIR will allow manual creation of multi-channel files, but may well be impractical if you have massive impulse response files.

Avi: If you email me your PCM files (jrp at dial dot pipex dot com), I will have a look at them. (Simple French messages are fine by me.)
jrpavel is offline  
post #40 of 326 Old 09-03-2005, 11:58 PM
Advanced Member
 
vairulez's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 673
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
jrpavel, can your convolver dmo be used to add a low-pass and high-pass filter on the lfe channel ?
How can I build such an impulse ?

sorry for my poor english but I'm french !!!!
vairulez is offline  
post #41 of 326 Old 09-04-2005, 02:04 AM
Advanced Member
 
Sinobi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Assens, Denmark
Posts: 511
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Vairulez
His convolver is a convolver...only.
What type of filters you put into the impulse responses that you enter in the convolver is up to you.
Normally you would use the results from DRC as convolver input files,
and if you do you can set up the target curve in DRC to match the low/high-pass you need.
If you are new to all this, read the following:
http://drc-fir.sourceforge.net
http://www.duffroomcorrection.com/im...Guide_v1.0.pdf
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=445559
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=283878
http://www.duffroomcorrection.com

Henrik

More Pixels To The People!
Stereo......is about projectors. The Soooooony 12" CRT owner.
Sinobi is offline  
post #42 of 326 Old 09-04-2005, 01:32 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
jrpavel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 297
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Henrik, Thanks. Helpful.

convolver will soon also be available in a DirectShow filter wrapper, which should make it easier to use in DScaler5, ffdshow, etc, and, with suitable impules responses, it should be possible to stick it in a graph that does more interesting things.
jrpavel is offline  
post #43 of 326 Old 09-10-2005, 01:11 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
jrpavel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 297
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Version 1.24 is now available on http://convolver.sourceforge.net.

It includes ConvolverWrapper, which allows convolver to be used as a DirectShow filter. Many thanks to John Adcock.
jrpavel is offline  
post #44 of 326 Old 09-10-2005, 02:58 PM
Advanced Member
 
Sinobi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Assens, Denmark
Posts: 511
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Great, so this means it can be used in Zoomplayer?

If yes, I've been waiting for this moment more than anything else for 2 years now.
Sadly this month is the only month in many years where I only have stereo speakers as I am building new center and surrounds right now....
It's like if someone gives you your favorite candy and then tells you to wait five days till saturday arrives before you eat it......

Henrik

More Pixels To The People!
Stereo......is about projectors. The Soooooony 12" CRT owner.
Sinobi is offline  
post #45 of 326 Old 09-11-2005, 01:27 AM
Advanced Member
 
vairulez's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 673
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
can anyone explain how to use it as directshow filter ?

sorry for my poor english but I'm french !!!!
vairulez is offline  
post #46 of 326 Old 09-11-2005, 03:51 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Mark_A_W's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 8,110
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
It appears as a filter in Zoomplayer for Custom media playback, but when selected I couldn't get it to appear in the filter properties during playback - I dunno if it loaded.

I'd like to be able to pick all the wav files individually rather than having to combine them into 1 big wav file - I can do a stereo file, but I haven't tried to combine multichannel yet. It'd be nice to avoid this step, but I don't know whether that would be an easy change...

Keep up the good work!

Mark

Loving my Electric Bike!!
Mark_A_W is offline  
post #47 of 326 Old 09-12-2005, 03:40 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
jrpavel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 297
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Thanks. I will try to post instructions for ZoomPlayer once I have worked out the right steps to get ConvolverWrapper to be inserted.

I'd be interested in suggestions for making the plug-in easier to use for multi-channel processing without having to create a single .wav impulse response file.

The main issue is producing a comprehensible interface that covers all the different possible combinations.

I've put up a slightly faster version (1.25).
jrpavel is offline  
post #48 of 326 Old 09-12-2005, 11:24 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Mark_A_W's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 8,110
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
How about just having lots of selection positions, one for an input file of each channel?

Centre
Front right
etc

Rather than the single wav file input you have now? Is that easy?

The output from Denis S's DRC program is raw PCM data (.pcm) can you accept that directly?

Currently in Jones Rush's guide you import this into Cooledit and save it as a wav file (and combine 2 channels while you're at it, but not 8 channels...).

If we could just select the .pcm files directly (after renaming them as you generate them with DRC) it would save 2 steps - one of which is the tricky multi wav combining step.

If you don't have a file for a particular channel then you either leave it out or tick a "skip" box.

Oh, and faster as in less CPU intensive in use? Or faster to calculate the attenuation level?

THANKS

Mark

Loving my Electric Bike!!
Mark_A_W is offline  
post #49 of 326 Old 09-15-2005, 03:46 AM
Advanced Member
 
vairulez's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 673
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:


I'd be interested in suggestions for making the plug-in easier to use for multi-channel processing without having to create a single .wav impulse response file

for those of us who only want to convolve one channel (LFE for example) it would be great to have the possibility to only enter the impulse for that channel.

sorry for my poor english but I'm french !!!!
vairulez is offline  
post #50 of 326 Old 09-15-2005, 04:48 AM
Advanced Member
 
Sinobi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Assens, Denmark
Posts: 511
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by vairulez View Post

for those of us who only want to convolve one channel (LFE for example) it would be great to have the possibility to only enter the impulse for that channel.

Would't that be a problem with the processing delay?
The LFE channel will be delayed and the other channels will not.
That would open up the need for the possibility to have a simple delay for the other channels.

Henrik

More Pixels To The People!
Stereo......is about projectors. The Soooooony 12" CRT owner.
Sinobi is offline  
post #51 of 326 Old 09-15-2005, 04:55 AM
Advanced Member
 
vairulez's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 673
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
you're right

sorry for my poor english but I'm french !!!!
vairulez is offline  
post #52 of 326 Old 09-17-2005, 05:29 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
jrpavel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 297
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
OK, let's have a go at drawing some of this together.

The current version of convolver takes a single (possible multi-channel) filter file and convolves it with the input stream, channel by channel.

The convolution is probably as fast as it's going to get without moving to another FFT package. On a 2GHz Pentium M or a 3.2GHz Pentium 4 and a long filter, convolver convolves at roughly 20 times real time speed (1.5s to convolve 2 x 65536 x 10 x 44.1KHz samples) -- calculate optimum attenuation convolves 10 filter-lengths' worth of noise, if you would like to report your experience. There are currently two builds up (VC++ 2003 and Intel C++). I'll see if VC++ 2005 or FFTW are faster in due course, but the results on the net are equivocal. Can anyone report how this compares with the likes of BruteFir, or

There is clearly a demand for a more flexible approach.

I suggest the following and would welcome comments:

- allow the user to specify a list of mono impulse files (of equal length, or zero-pad to the maximum length?)

- for each filter allow the user to specify a list of (up to eight?) input channels and scaling factors to which the filter will be applied.

- for each filter, input and scaling factor combination, allow the user to specify an output channel, to which the convolved output will be sent. Where an output file has more than one input filter and scaling factor, sum the scaled outputs

- where an output channel has no convolved input specified, introduce a delay to sync with the convolved outputs

Questions:

- would such a framework be flexible enough to do the job?

- Have I missed any considerations?

- would it be preferable to have the plug-in generate its own filters (eg, high, low mid-band pass, rather than read user-provided filters)?

What would those filters be?

This would obviously not be suitable for room correction, or generate specific cross-overs for their particular setup, but would make it easier for users who don't want to have to generate their own filters. Perhaps the answer is to do both, but in separate plug-ins, to avoid having an overly-complex interface.

- is there a requirement to be able to use stereo impulse files? While theoretically, you should record mono responses, it has been suggested to me that a stereo response file may sound good in some circumstances.

Over to you.
jrpavel is offline  
post #53 of 326 Old 09-18-2005, 12:27 AM
Advanced Member
 
vairulez's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 673
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
where an output channel has no convolved input specified, introduce a delay to sync with the convolved outputs

it's a very good idea

Quote:
would it be preferable to have the plug-in generate its own filters (eg, high, low mid-band pass, rather than read user-provided filters)?

that would be nice, but you might include that in a seperate filter that would be used for filtering. May be you should do an ffdshow-like interface taht would include different plug ins (convolver, filter, crossover, input and output mixer, delays, bass redirection .....)

sorry for my poor english but I'm french !!!!
vairulez is offline  
post #54 of 326 Old 09-21-2005, 11:06 AM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
jrpavel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 297
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I have now had a report that 1.26 works with ffdshow using the following graph:

Source -> avi splitter -> ffdshow audio dec -> Convolver wrapper -> ffdshow
audio processor -> Direct Sound

cpu usage was 60-80% using 71330 taps @48Khz with 6 channels on a Semprom 3000+

1.26i may perform even better on more recent processors. Processors with larger caches may also perform better.


I am starting work on a version of the plug-in that will allow cross-channel processing (for bass management, etc).
jrpavel is offline  
post #55 of 326 Old 09-21-2005, 03:10 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Mark_A_W's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 8,110
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Cool, I'll try it out over the next few days.

With the ffdshow video resize as well, I think I need a gruntier processor....

Loving my Electric Bike!!
Mark_A_W is offline  
post #56 of 326 Old 09-26-2005, 12:46 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
jrpavel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 297
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Just looking at how best to design / optimize the cross-channel version:

Looking at the full design sketched above allows the possibility of

- associating a filter with the weighted sum of a specified set of input channels
- summing the weighted outputs of such filters to generate the output for a channel

* Do people need the full generality of such a design?

For example, it would be possible to:

- require that both input and output channels are associated with at most one filter

- require that input channels are associated with at most one filter

- require that output channels are associated with at most one filter; or

- allow only the inputs (or the outputs) to be weighted before they are summed.

While it would be easy to say that "we need the full generality" there will be usabilty / configuration complexity / performance downsides.

What does the panel think?
jrpavel is offline  
post #57 of 326 Old 10-01-2005, 02:50 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
jrpavel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 297
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Well we now have a prototype of a more fully-featured version of the convolution plug-in. It now provides channel-mixing/splitting capabilities:

To summarise:

- Version 1 required an impulse to be presented to it as a multi-channel WAV file, which it convolved, channel by channel, with the input.

- Version 2 requires a set of single-channel impulse response (FIR filter) files. Each impulse response is convolved with the pointwise weighted sum of a specified set of input channels. The resulting outputs are also weighted, summed and directed to specified output channels. So as well as room correction, you should be able to use high and low pass filters, for example, to split an input channel and redirect the output to different output channels. At present, the filter files, weightings and channel redirection are specified through a simple text configuration file. Once the design has been tested further, a user interface will be provided.

The plug-in can also be used as a DirectShow filter using the included ConvolverWrapper, so you should be able to plug it into ffdshow, etc.

Check out the details at convolver.sourceforge.net.

Version 2 is unoptimized -- optimizations will depend in good part on what sort of configurations people use.

Feedback welcome, ideally with the configuration and filters that you are using. Testing of version 2.1 has been pretty limited. jrp at dial dot pipex dot com

Enjoy
jrpavel is offline  
post #58 of 326 Old 10-01-2005, 03:58 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Mark_A_W's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 8,110
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Cool! Thanks for keeping this going JR!

BTW, anyone have any idea how to use RecImp on XP? How do I make any use of a "precomplied executable?".


And has anybody generated a filter file for a 0.1 channel? In DRC would you create a target response with every frequency over 200hz is severely attenuated? Ed you there?

This is getting really close now guys

Loving my Electric Bike!!
Mark_A_W is offline  
post #59 of 326 Old 10-01-2005, 04:30 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Mark_A_W's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 8,110
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Sorry for the double post..

I'm trying to make a Zoomplayer DVDAutoGraph file for Convolver Wrapper, or even getting it to work in Zoomplayer for Manual filter control for TS files.

What are the Input and Output pins called? in0 and out0 like melavi's graphedit image on page 1 shows?

I keep getting connection errors, it seems to connect after AC3filter ok, but it won't connect to Reclock Audio Renderer (or any other renderer).

Any tips?

Mark

Loving my Electric Bike!!
Mark_A_W is offline  
post #60 of 326 Old 10-01-2005, 04:44 PM
Advanced Member
 
Ben_Tech's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 900
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
In theory, v2.1 could be used as the crossover system in an actively amplified setup I believe. That makes it all the more interesting to the DIY crowd.

Thank you for your hard work!

My Blog - Ask Toy Tech
Ben_Tech is offline  
Reply Home Theater Computers

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off