Has anyone tried the "non-MCE app software for the A180 HD card on WinXP? - Page 2 - AVS Forum
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post #31 of 53 Old 08-31-2005, 02:54 PM
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I don't think there's anything stopping them from releasing them earlier, but my guess is that they percieve (rightly or not) no "market" for QAM drivers before MCE supports it.

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post #32 of 53 Old 08-31-2005, 04:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stanger89
I don't think there's anything stopping them from releasing them earlier, but my guess is that they percieve (rightly or not) no "market" for QAM drivers before MCE supports it.
Microsoft has staked out some code that they have indicated that they plan to write, which would enable these companies to drop in QAM support under Microsoft's nascent BDA standard. As such, they've caused these companies to reject the option of just supplying a directshow filter that would do the job.

It's classic FUD.

Compared to the work that goes into producing the card and the drivers to run it, putting together a directshow filter that would expose the existing driver functionality of QAM would be a piece of cake. Why aren't they doing it? Because Microsoft is too intimidating.

Stuart -- my AV setup
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post #33 of 53 Old 09-01-2005, 04:05 AM
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Why does the A180 not support QAM with the driver. The hardware is advertised to do so. When can I expect an updated driver to address this issue?

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Message by alanc on Wed, 31st Aug 2005 7:00 pm

At this time the driver is still in the process of being developed and we do not have a time frame when it's going to be release.
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post #34 of 53 Old 09-01-2005, 07:37 AM
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KS, Thanks for the response.
Quote:
Originally Posted by KlingonScum
This thing has an NTSC Tuner on it??? Wasn't aware of that.
Yes its equiped with one. On this Alps page, from the products catalog on the right, click "RF components for broadcasting" then select "Digital Terrestrial Tuner Unit with Internal Demodulator TDH Series" (should be second from top)....I would have linked directly, but it just times out because their webpage set up.
Quote:
If it does, then the guys at MyHD and AccessDTV have some explaining to do, because somehow AverMedia is able to pipe in both ATSC and NTSC signals in the same coax connector instead of requiring separate coax for each
All cards are capable of doing that. From the perspective of the card, there is no necessity for having multiple inputs, but from the end user perspective, it certainly is nice and convinient not having to use a A-B switch (or worse, manually switching the input source).
Quote:
the reason that's a big beef of mine is my old ADTV card had the NTSC Coax connector (which I wasn't using, I might add) so close to the top of the card edge, that I literally had to remove the motherboard to get the damn card in and out of my box...
That reminds me of a problem some ati aiw cards had not so long ago -- requiring some modification to the expansion slot on the case in order to fit
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The thing is, I'm not an NTSC guy because I get all my local channels through DirecTV, so the tuner's not something I'd mess with.
Ahh, I understand now :)
Quote:
BTW - that AverTV 6.0 app does NOT support NTSC on this card; the check box is grayed out on the configuration dialog.
Interesting.

Cheers, CK
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post #35 of 53 Old 09-01-2005, 10:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Derek K.
Done. I'll post their reply.

Derek
Just heard back. Same answer as above:

My questions:

Hello,

Is the a180 capable of decoding unecrypted qam encoded digital cable signals? Does the stand alone app for windows xp support this?

It appears that the hardware can do this.

Their response:

The driver for the A180 currently does not support QAM and it's in the process of being develope which we do not known when it will be release. Also, our TV application for the A180 does not support QAM at all.
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post #36 of 53 Old 09-01-2005, 11:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KlingonScum
roller11 - Bear in mind I've only used the AverTV 6.0 app with the A180 card; other apps may handle different formats. The native format used by the AverTV 6.0 app is MPG, which I actually find more convenient than .ts format personally since I don't have to convert it to play it back with different media players.
I don't get it, why would you want to play it back with other media players?
Why not play it back with the A180 player?

Sounds like there is only one possible deal breaker, the native format. My fusion
does .tp as does the MyHD cards, and the PQ is great. I had a HDTV wonder from ATI, and in
it's native format (non-.tp) the PQ was awful. When I convert the PQ to MPEG
on my Fusion, the PQ suffers greatly, it doesn't even look like Hi def. So, I have to wonder about the PQ of any card that doesn't do either .tp or .ts. Can you compare the PQ with other HDTV cards you may have witnessed?

I'm looking at the 180A cause my Fusion card has some drawbacks
and I would like to replace it. The MyHD130 functionally is near ideal, but it costs way more
than the competition, which of course makes it not ideal. So I'm looking into some
reasonably priced solutions that meet all my minimum requirements. Assuming
a remote isn't too much money, the total cost would still be under $150 I'm figuring. BTW, do you think my Fusion remote would work? It has a 'profile'
one can program, and is USB interface. In case I didn't mention it, I will
be using only winXP with this card.
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post #37 of 53 Old 09-01-2005, 12:12 PM
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I have a question about .tp files. I have downloaded the demo file from
the Fusion website, but I have been unable to play the demo because
.tp is not recognized by any of my programs. What do I need and where
can I get it?

Thanks
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post #38 of 53 Old 09-01-2005, 03:02 PM - Thread Starter
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[quote=roller11]I don't get it, why would you want to play it back with other media players?
Why not play it back with the A180 player?[\\QUOTE]

Because I have several other PCs on my home network all tied together and like to watch shows on whichever one is closest, and the A180 software doesn't work if you don't have A180 hardware in your machine. And other media players can have better interfaces and capabilities to tweak the video (such as using FFDShow). Etc. So I use Zoomplayer and codecs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by roller11
Sounds like there is only one possible deal breaker, the native format. My fusion does .tp as does the MyHD cards, and the PQ is great. I had a HDTV wonder from ATI, and in it's native format (non-.tp) the PQ was awful. When I convert the PQ to MPEG on my Fusion, the PQ suffers greatly, it doesn't even look like Hi def. So, I have to wonder about the PQ of any card that doesn't do either .tp or .ts. Can you compare the PQ with other HDTV cards you may have witnessed?
*scratch scratch* There shouldn't be a PQ difference - .tp/.ts IS MPEG2; it's just the transport mechanism that's different (.ts files typically have "dummy" packets inserted in to fill the intervals between information bearing packets, etc). It sounds as if whatever you're using to convert from .ts to MPEG is using a higher compression ratio or re-encoding to different specs/resolutions or something. Or perhaps converting it to MPEG1 (ugh).

The only other HDTV card I've got personal experience with is my AccessDTV card, and as I said earlier, I don't get nearly the pixelation artifacts with the A180 I did with that card, although a still picture on the AccessDTV card looks a little better than the A180 - but that could be due to the onboard scaling/de-interlacing the ADTV card does to the picture (which I might be able to duplicate if I was playing back via Zoomplayer with FFDShow, for example, and/or different MPEG codecs).

Quote:
Originally Posted by roller11
I'm looking at the 180A cause my Fusion card has some drawbacks and I would like to replace it. The MyHD130 functionally is near ideal, but it costs way more than the competition, which of course makes it not ideal. So I'm looking into some reasonably priced solutions that meet all my minimum requirements. Assuming a remote isn't too much money, the total cost would still be under $150 I'm figuring. BTW, do you think my Fusion remote would work? It has a 'profile' one can program, and is USB interface. In case I didn't mention it, I will be using only winXP with this card.
I've seen the MyHD130 for $199, and I believe it comes with its own remote, so that's only about 25% more than what you're looking at. If the software with the Fusion remote lets you set up keypresses to be sent to applications, you ought to be able to configure it to work with the A180 software - I'm essentially doing that with my X10 remote and Total Home Remote software.

--KS

--KS
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post #39 of 53 Old 09-01-2005, 03:05 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wbrack
I have a question about .tp files. I have downloaded the demo file from
the Fusion website, but I have been unable to play the demo because
.tp is not recognized by any of my programs. What do I need and where
can I get it?

Thanks
The .tp files are the actual video files themselves; you can play them back with the Fusion software itself: http://www.fusionhdtv.co.kr/Eng/Download/Software.aspx

Download the 3.00.02 version, I suppose - I haven't done this in awhile. I agree their new web page is confusing about the demo - the old page used to say "download this, then download some of the media files".

--KS

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post #40 of 53 Old 09-01-2005, 03:49 PM
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Does the A180 software allow for true timeshifting. i.e. watch 1 program while another is recording, pause live tv, start watching a program from the beginning while it is recording etc.
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post #41 of 53 Old 09-01-2005, 04:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wbrack
I have a question about .tp files. I have downloaded the demo file from
the Fusion website, but I have been unable to play the demo because
.tp is not recognized by any of my programs. What do I need and where
can I get it?

Thanks
Media Player Classic will play the files too --- small & highly versatile.
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post #42 of 53 Old 09-01-2005, 05:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CityK
Media Player Classic will play the files too --- small & highly versatile.
Thanks CityK,

Worked like a charm!

wbrack
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post #43 of 53 Old 09-02-2005, 03:15 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by araghava
Does the A180 software allow for true timeshifting. i.e. watch 1 program while another is recording, pause live tv, start watching a program from the beginning while it is recording etc.
The A180 is a single tuner card, as are they all - that means you can't record one show while watching another live; you'd need two tuners (A180 cards) for that, and I don't think the AverTV software can handle two tuners. Windows MCE CAN handle two cards at once, as can Sage TV, Beyond TV, etc. But not the AverTV software.

However, you can pause liveTV with the AverTV software - that works VERY well. And you can start watching a program from the beginning while it is still recording. And you can (with a caveat) watch an existing recorded show WHILE another live show is being recorded - however, I don't think you can do that from within AverTV itself; I think you have to let it record the live show, while you fire up a different media player (Zoomplayer, Media player, WinAmp, etc) and watch the existing recorded show which is, after all, just another MPEG file on your drive. [EDIT] - Was wrong about lot of this stuff, see my last post.

Hope that answers your questions - as far as I know, there are no Dual Tuner HDTV cards out there, Hardware OR Software based, which means there is no way to watch one Live HDTV broadcast while recording another HDTV broadcast without having two HDTV cards.

--KS

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post #44 of 53 Old 09-02-2005, 03:19 PM
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Aver has a release of their drivers that is supposed to support multiple cards in one PC.

Stuart -- my AV setup
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post #45 of 53 Old 09-09-2005, 08:25 AM - Thread Starter
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Ok, now that I've had time to play with the AverTV 6.0 over an extended period of time, I'm much less enamored of it. Here's why:

1) (BUG) The EPG doesn't work. I have yet to get the damn thing to schedule a recording and start at the proper time. Plus I can't get it to update consistently. Last night tried to schedule it to record the Patriots/Raiders game - it did NOTHING when 8pm CST rolled around. Then, at 9pm while I was watching it while recording, it killed the recording and went into "silent record mode". I haven't tried using TitanTV yet which it supposedly supports.

2) (MISSING FUNCTIONALITY) There doesn't appear to be a way to watch one show while recording another. And while recording a show, you can't move back and forth within what's recorded - in other words, no pausing it in the video window, nor can you RW/FFW like you can when in Timeshift mode.

3) (HORRIBLE FUNCTIONALITY) If you scheduled a "silent recording" (and somehow manage to get it to work which I did by accident and wasn't able to repeat yesterday), you can't watch it until it's finished recording.

4) (BUG?) The MPG files AverTV 6.0 produces can only be watched within the AverTV 6.0 app itself. I tried watching it through Zoomplayer and Windows Media Player 9 - the video playback was in VERY slow motion and the sound was horribly stuttery. Anyone have any ideas on that one? This sucks because that means I can't watch a recorded show on any other machine on my network.

5) (BUG - AND THIS IS A BIGGIE) While watching HDTV in the AverTV 6.0 app, regardless of whether it's "LiveTV", "Timeshifted", or during a recording, frequently I'll start getting pixelation and stuttering starting from the bottom of the screen and quickly moving upward until the whole screen is doing it. At this point I can easily fix it by (in Live TV mode) changing channels away and back, (in Timeshift Mode) Pausing and unpausing it, or (in all modes) switching from Fullscreen to Windowed and back again. It's not affecting the recording at all - what's recorded (Timeshift or Record mode) looks fine on playback. It happens when playing back a recorded movie as well - infrequent and just go back and forth or resize the window and it fixes itself. Does it about every 5 to 15 minutes with no rhyme or reason. Pretty sure it's not my machine - Athlon64 2800+, Radeon 9800Pro card, DxVA enabled, 512MB PC3200.

6) (MISSING FUNCTIONALITY) The files that get created when a recording is made don't have meaningful filenames - just long streams of numbers, and they don't even appear to bear any relationship to the time/date the recording is made. They're like GUIDs. For scheduled recordings I'd at least expect something meaningful captured from the description in the schedule.

7) (MISSING FUNCTIONALITY - MINOR) Wish there was a way to find out whether the incoming signal is 1080i, 720p, or 480p.

8) (BUG?) Won't remember settings - when I set a channel to "Keep Aspect Ratio", I expect it to stay that way until I tell it otherwise each time I start the app and switch to that channel.

It's not all bad - as I said earlier, Timeshifting works like a dream other than having to pause/play or resize when the picture starts stuttering. But it's bad enough that I'm now going to start looking for alternatives that don't involve rebuilding my HTPC with MCE and buying a $66 MCE150 analog tuner card I have no use for other than to "make MCE work".

--KS

--KS
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post #46 of 53 Old 09-09-2005, 08:57 PM - Thread Starter
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Grrrr...more issues.

TitanTV works perfectly with the software, no complaints there. However, discovered something else while messing with it which may not have anything to do with the software... The hard drive on the HTPC with the A180 card in it is pretty full. So, I point the destination directory for recorded shows to another drive on my network that has 100GB free. My network, btw, is a Cat-5e wired (not wireless) 100MB network hooked up to a Switch (not a hub) - both machines in question here have onboard 100MB networking; it's not an add-on card. And I've checked the connection on both machines - windows reports it's at the full 100MB throughput.

Anyway, timeshifting to that drive - no problems whatsoever. However, RECORDING to that drive - forget it. The video gets very badly choppy - and it's recorded that way as well, it does the same thing on playback. It doesn't matter whether it's a scheduled "silent" record, or if I'm watching Live TV and hit the record button - the video instantly becomes choppy, and the recorded file echo's the choppiness which means it's not just playback. Weird that timeshifting to that drive works - and yes, I've verified the timeshifting file is getting created on the remote drive and not locally. Really funky - I was able to watch 2+ hours of that game last night timeshifted to the remote drive with no problems (other than what I put in my earlier post).

This is gonna be an issue for me; as I said, I'm worried it's not the software, but something inherent to trying to record HDTV to a networked drive...

BTW - one other factoid: on my Athlon64 2800+/512MB system, recording while watching (both locally and remotely) varies between about 22% and about 48% CPU.

--KS

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post #47 of 53 Old 09-14-2005, 09:40 PM
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I received my A180 today--oh happy day!

Installation was slightly painful, with Windoze MCE crashing about 68 times (no exaggeration).

Then when I finally got MCE 2005 to cooperate, the HDTV channels appeared with a very slow frame rate and no sound.

I downloaded the Aver 6.0 software, installed, and everything is working perfectly. The Aver interface is cumbersome, but the picture and audio are fine.

Bored? Check out my blog: www.thelonglonghoneymoon.com
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post #48 of 53 Old 09-16-2005, 11:24 AM
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I just installed the A180 card in my PC this week and am having a few growing pains. Installation itself was easy, but it does not appear that I have enough link margin for stable TV watching.

I am about 25 mi from the transmitter site and am using a DB-2. The antenna is not in the optimal location yet, so I'm hoping that the signal will improve with elevation.

I get the freeze/jump and occasional pixelation right now. on most all channels to some degree. None are really acceptable for serious viewing right now. CPU usage is between 22% and 58%. I assume the variance is due to the bandwidth differences between DTV and HDTV, but I'm not sure. It will lockup (but no PC hard crash) at times. I have to kill the app in task manager and restart when this happens. This seems to be weak signal related but that's just speculation. I have not yet found the signal strength meter (such as it is).

Long term, I plan to use this card with Snapstream's Beyond TV, which has announced support for this device in pending release, so I'm not too heartbroken about the lack of features on the supplied software.

Klingonscum - You said you were in Houston. Can you tell me your antenna type and location relative the antenna farm?

My guess is that most of my problems are weak signal and not my PC or the tuner sensitivity, so wish me luck in trying to improve the antenna location. I don't really want to exchange this antenna (DB2) for another one, but that may be required.
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post #49 of 53 Old 09-16-2005, 10:28 PM
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I've been running my a180 for a few weeks now. I'm running the 6.0 software, since I don't have MCE (only XP).

Seems to be pretty good performance so far. How do I get this to work with TitanTV guide? (the EPG that is?) What do you have TitanTV setup with as far as PVR and PC Card settings?

Also, this is my big question -- I am wanting to take some DTV stuff (football games) that I've recorded which was in 4:3 format, and go in and trim out the commercials, and compress it down to a good clean 480i source that I can fit on a DVD or two. What software would be recommended for trimming commercials, and encoding to fit on a DVD? I would like to be able to put this in the Oppo DVD player in the living room to watch on the TV in that room at a later time.

FWIW, I'm running the following machine:

AMD Sempron 2800+
512MB 266MHz Memory
ASUS A7N8X-E Deluxe MB
MSI 6600GT Video Card
Avermedia A180 HDTV Tuner card
NEC dual layer DVD Burner
Westinghouse 27" LCD Monitor
WinXP w/ SP2

Thanks for any help!

Chris

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post #50 of 53 Old 09-20-2005, 06:18 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thr3
I get the freeze/jump and occasional pixelation right now. on most all channels to some degree. None are really acceptable for serious viewing right now. CPU usage is between 22% and 58%. I assume the variance is due to the bandwidth differences between DTV and HDTV, but I'm not sure. It will lockup (but no PC hard crash) at times. I have to kill the app in task manager and restart when this happens. This seems to be weak signal related but that's just speculation. I have not yet found the signal strength meter (such as it is).
That's about the same CPU utilization I'm seeing on my rig. I haven't had it lock up on me yet, but I will have the picture freeze on me if I bring up the config screen in the foreground, or start stuttering; double click/double click on the window (resizing it back and forth) fixes the stuttering.

I got a response from AverMedia - the "signal strength meter" IS that dinky little icon on the interface. What a gyp. Frankly, I don't think it works, either.

Quote:
Originally Posted by thr3
Klingonscum - You said you were in Houston. Can you tell me your antenna type and location relative the antenna farm?
This is my antenna: http://www.radioshack.com/product.as...uct_id=15-2160

I actually live quite a ways North West of Houston in Magnolia - I'm about 48 miles from the antenna farm. The plus side is that all the Houston stations are at 148-149 degrees from my house, which means I don't need an antenna rotator. :D Basically, the only channel I simply can't lock onto is PBS, and the only channel that drops frames too much to watch is UPN - CBS, ABC, NBC, WB, and FOX are great. And I haven't actually aligned my antenna - I basically assumed my house is perfectly aligned North/South, and guessed about where 148 degrees is and pointed it that way. Since I don't have a decent signal strength meter in the software, I don't really want to mess with it (since there's really nothing on UPN I want to watch anyway :) ) At some point I imagine I'll get a compass (I think the "true north" deviation for Houston is about 7 degrees) and try to do a better job of it...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ten 99
Seems to be pretty good performance so far. How do I get this to work with TitanTV guide? (the EPG that is?) What do you have TitanTV setup with as far as PVR and PC Card settings?
It was pretty straightforward - I registered, and set up my profile, and it just worked automatically. I set my PVR in my profile to "AverTV". Frankly I was shocked - it just...worked.

One thing I've had to deal with - I had "pointed" the AverTV software to a network drive to store its files. Well, that works fine for timeshifting, but trying to record something, it stuttered something fierce and was unusable. I don't know if that's a problem speed or otherwise with my network, or the speed of the machine I was trying to save the files to, or what - I wound up just switching to the HTPC's local hard drive *sigh*.

--KS

--KS
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post #51 of 53 Old 09-21-2005, 07:38 PM
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This is about the most informative thread I could find on the A180 card.

I've got it installed in a Dell 8400 MCE2005 box. MCE2005 produced a stuttering image. I installed AverTV 6 software and can watch and record a nice clean, smooth image. Don't understand why MCE 2005 stutters with this card.

Anyways, my real question here is how can I convert the captured mpeg2 files to DVD? Using MainConcept Mpeg encoder I can covert the video just fine, however, no audio track is being recognized. I tried several programs in an attempt to demux the audio (ie, VirtualDub-mpeg2, tmpgenc Express tools, MPEG Video Wizard) none recognize any audio track. The only program that recognizes audio is the AverTV 6 playback program (so I know the audio track is there).

Has anyone been able to covert captures to DVD? If so how? ANy suggestions?
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post #52 of 53 Old 09-23-2005, 03:26 PM
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Not yet. I found that MediaPlayer10 works just fine to play back the recorded stuff. As far as demuxing it or whatever? I'm also wanting to be able to archive to DVD. I would also like to trim the fat (commercials, etc). I'm not sure if the DTV stuff I've recorded would have to be rescaled, or not? It wasn't HD, just DTV.

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post #53 of 53 Old 09-24-2005, 08:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CityK
its Alps NIM -- consisting of a some unknown tuner model, the ATI 2004 demodlator and (seeing as I can't offhand recall if the ATI can handle ntsc too) possibly a NTSC demodulator too (philips would be a good candidate).
I was just looking at the Fujiplus card and in the process verified that the Nxt2004 does not perform analog demodulation

Quote:
Originally Posted by CityK
Quote:
Originally Posted by KlingonScum
This thing has an NTSC Tuner on it??? Wasn't aware of that.
Yes its equiped with one. On this Alps page, from the products catalog on the right, click "RF components for broadcasting" then select "Digital Terrestrial Tuner Unit with Internal Demodulator TDH Series" (should be second from top).
I don't think I should have been so assumptious previously. Given that the Nxt2004 does not also perform analog demodulation, the Alps NIM would have to include a seperate analog demodulator. Looking at the Alps site again, it is clear that there is certainly provision for the inclusion of an analog demodulator, but I think the TDHU's description page suffers from some "lost in translation". Looking further down the page there is a second listing related to the TDHx series, and glancing at its description it is more apparent that the analog demodulator is an option, not a given. I think this part just did not get properly conveyed on the product sheet for the TDHU, the model employed on the A180.

For example, in the TDHU description, one of the first statements is: "Models for North American terrestrial broadcasting have a built-in demodulating function
for analog broadcasting on NTSC." Yet, further reference sees the NTSC capability being placed in Parathesis.

Now in the other TDHx model (which is not used in the A180), the descriptor page states: "The North America model is with built-in the option as for the NTSC recovery function of for OOB and the analog broadcasting". I think the "lost in translation" (aka goodly english) is apparent, as is the optionality of the analog demodulator. Further, the document goes on to list NTSC reception as "optionally".

So, all in all - is there a analog demodulator in the NIM shipping with the A180? Maybe, maybe not. Flip a coin. Your guess is as good as mine. Needless to say, many won't care either way. I just wanted to ammend this facet of the A180 discussion.
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