New Unofficial DSCALER5 with 3:2 Pulldown for 1080i - AVS Forum
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Old 10-28-2005, 05:31 PM - Thread Starter
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You will find here links for a modification of Dscaler5 that offers a first level of Film Detection and 3:2 Pulldown. This version has been optimized for 1080i film content and should not be used for anything else.

You are welcome to give me your feedbacks, there is still a big margin for optimizations.

Summary
-------

Film detection is not an easy process and its efficiency depends on many factors such as the decoder, video card, quality of the compression. If a decoder can not properly detect if a content is a film, it will assume it is a video and try to deinterlace it, which means most of the time "blend" the two fields or discard half the fields and basically reduce the resolution from 1080 lines to 540 lines.

As far as I can tell most of the mpeg2 decoders available (except some hardware based decoders) do not do a very good job at identifying films. There are rumours the 81.84 nvidia Forceware drivers are supposed to offer much better 3:2 Pulldown.

If the new option "inverse telecine" is enabled in Dscaler and you are watching telecined content you have got now quite a high chance to watch it in its true high definition that is at last in 1080p and no longer in crappy 540p. The decoder will try to detect as well if some video content is detected between two movies portions (for instance commercials), the decoder will try to ignore it and then resync after.

It has quite a low CPU overhead and since Dscaler is software based decoder it can be used with ffdshow.

Link
-----
Access Source + Binaries + Guide through this page:

http://www.geocities.com/kzeuhkzeuh/index.htm

Credits
-------
Many thanks to the authors of Dscaler Michel Lespinasse, Aaron Holtzman, Gabest and John Adcock that have created this awesome decoder with great picture quality.

Thanks to FMalibu for his "blind IVTC" modification which gave me the inspiration for the full IVTC algorithm.

Please note that this version is not official and is not supported by the original Dscaler authors. I hope they won't mind me releasing it.

Enjoy it!


Kzeuh


Edit: Fixed Link
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Old 10-28-2005, 08:00 PM
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WOW! THANKS! Will try tonight!

Btw, how's the modded DScaler5 decoder handles VIDEO content when detected? Will it ignore (weave with comb artifact), bob/blend (or other poor video deinterlace), or the user can select a DScaler4 video deinterlacing filter/plugin such as MoComp2/TomsMoComp for the best video deinterlace quality?

Thanks in advance.

regards,

Li On
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Old 10-28-2005, 11:01 PM
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Mirrored the files here so people doesn't need to wait for Geocities to free up bandwidth and so on:

Binaries + Guide:

http://www.upload2.net/download2/q9Q...91005.zip.html

Source:

http://www.upload2.net/download2/3Ul...91005.zip.html

Thanks a lot for your hardwork on this.
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Old 10-29-2005, 05:04 AM
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Good work kzeuh, but how do you handle field order change in the middle of a stream (caused by a glitch for ex.) ?

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Old 10-29-2005, 05:28 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Li On View Post

WOW! THANKS! Will try tonight!

Btw, how's the modded DScaler5 decoder handles VIDEO content when detected? Will it ignore (weave with comb artifact), bob/blend (or other poor video deinterlace), or the user can select a DScaler4 video deinterlacing filter/plugin such as MoComp2/TomsMoComp for the best video deinterlace quality?

Thanks in advance.

regards,

Li On

If no film content is detected, it will assume it is video and Dscaler will apply the the deinterlace process that is chosen in the Dscaler settings (weave or bob). There is no way at the moment except using ffdshow to specify a specific deinterlacer. I think I will leave this part to John

Anyway, I do not recommend to enable the inverse telecine enabled if you plan to watch video, parts of the optimisations rely on the assumption that the content is mostly film and it is likely to see sometime film content where there is in fact only video. Moreover, as long as it hasn't found any film content it uses a slower film detection algorithm which means that dscaler may consume more CPU than usual to watch video.
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Old 10-29-2005, 05:36 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BangoO View Post

Good work kzeuh, but how do you handle field order change in the middle of a stream (caused by a glitch for ex.) ?

There is an algorithm that is supposed to detect breaks in 3:2 cadences due to glitches or to TV commercials. At this point it will switch back to the film detection mode. Therefore, during all the duration of the glitch plus a couple of extra frames required to do a proper film detection the weave effects will be back.
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Old 10-29-2005, 09:11 AM
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Sounds great then, kzeuh

One last thing though... if you play DVDs, the signal sent to ffdhow and ReClock is 23.976fps.
If you play 1080i file, even with your "forced IVTC", the signal is still sent to ffdshow and ReClock at 29.97fps, therefore ReClock cannot synchronize at 47.952Hz.
It is something that can be fixed as well ?

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Old 10-30-2005, 03:35 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BangoO View Post

Sounds great then, kzeuh

One last thing though... if you play DVDs, the signal sent to ffdhow and ReClock is 23.976fps.
If you play 1080i file, even with your "forced IVTC", the signal is still sent to ffdshow and ReClock at 29.97fps, therefore ReClock cannot synchronize at 47.952Hz.
It is something that can be fixed as well ?

Well, before even my modification purely flagged content although they turn out to be 23.997fps were sent to reclock at 29.97fps. I will look at what I can do, but can't promess anything in the shortterm. I know FMalibu had been working on that..so may he can help.

Otherwise, can anybody give me some feedback on this modified Dscaler version regarding the PQ, smoothness or simply the usefulness so that I know it is worth working on it? Thanks.
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Old 10-30-2005, 05:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kzeuh View Post

Please note that this version is not official and is not supported by the original Dscaler authors. I hope they won't mind me releasing it.

Of course not! It's a pity that I didn't respond to your queries earlier, I'll take a look at the source next week and see how much of it to fold into the next release.

Cheers

John

My Company - Upsilon Software
Free Projects - DScaler & hcfr fork
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Old 10-30-2005, 06:00 AM
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Tried on a few bad (or none!) flag DVD music video clips which were shot on 24fps film. These poor clips have TONS of cadance breakup in scene change. And many scenes are remixed with video effect overlay.

The new decoder's Pulldown detection works "acceptable" I think. A bit behind Nvidia NVPP processor in software mode. Both Avisynth Decomb filter and DScaler4 buildin pulldown perform much better though.

Overall, I think the pulldown detection is usable in this first release. Will try some 1080i HD bad flag clips later.

regards,

Li On

PS: although the pulldown detection performance is not yet upto the Avisynth Decomb level, it seems the overall picture quality looks quite a bit better using the decoder internal deinterlace...
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Old 10-30-2005, 08:05 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Li On View Post

Tried on a few bad (or none!) flag DVD music video clips which were shot on 24fps film. These poor clips have TONS of cadance breakup in scene change. And many scenes are remixed with video effect overlay.

The new decoder's Pulldown detection works "acceptable" I think. A bit behind Nvidia NVPP processor in software mode. Both Avisynth Decomb filter and DScaler4 buildin pulldown perform much better though.

Overall, I think the pulldown detection is usable in this first release. Will try some 1080i HD bad flag clips later.

regards,

Li On

PS: although the pulldown detection performance is not yet upto the Avisynth Decomb level, it seems the overall picture quality looks quite a bit better using the decoder internal deinterlace...

This film detection algorithm as mentioned in my first top has been optimised for 1080i film content, in fact some internal thresholds are based on this assumption and it had to be simplified in order to leave enough CPU to handle HD. I must say I haven't even tried it on anything else but 1080i.

It gives some good results on 1080i that respects a 3:2 cadence either with flags or without flags. This corresponds to 95% of the HD movies I have tested. It checks only cadence breaks to be able to skip short video content like ads that have been inserted. Movies that have lots of cadence breaks per minute are not consequently handled.

Its goal is to enable people who enjoy the PQ of Dscaler to watch most of their HD movies. Since it is assumes the content is mostly film and not video you are likely to get a better PQ because most decoders usually switch back to video mode (and reduce the resolution) as soon as they have a slight doubt about the content. This could maybe explain your last observation.
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Old 10-30-2005, 09:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kzeuh View Post

Well, before even my modification purely flagged content although they turn out to be 23.997fps were sent to reclock at 29.97fps. I will look at what I can do, but can't promess anything in the shortterm. I know FMalibu had been working on that..so may he can help.

Otherwise, can anybody give me some feedback on this modified Dscaler version regarding the PQ, smoothness or simply the usefulness so that I know it is worth working on it? Thanks.

big thanks, this worked worked great on a bunch of problematic streams
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Old 10-31-2005, 02:28 AM
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Tried this on 15 different streams and all without exception played perfectly with this new option enabled. Great work!...finally plug and play hd 1080i ts playback

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Old 11-02-2005, 07:38 AM
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Bump, everybody should try it; and a BIG thank to kezuh!

With your efforts, DScaler5 handles Hard T/C'ed .ts 1080i BEAUTIFULLY~
Yes, 95%(at least) of combing/feathering artifacts are gone.
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Old 11-02-2005, 08:27 AM
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Dumb question: How do you install it?

HDTV or BUST
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Old 11-02-2005, 09:09 AM
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mike

make sure you have dscaler 5.0x installed

download the zip file, extract, copy the 2 files to your current install directory

thats all i did
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Old 11-02-2005, 10:53 AM
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Thanks shigaloo. What's the other file for?

HDTV or BUST
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Old 11-02-2005, 08:40 PM
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Hi,

Super !

It works...Tested it on some CSI Episodes, some HDNet Movies, 25 fps HD Material, 720p 60 Hz Material, PAL DVD...It all seem to work.

But...The Audio-Video Delay on some HD Material is unfortunatly still there in conjunction with the Elecard Demuxer (with NVidia Demux there are no Delay Problems but this Filter has unfortunatly other more significant flaws)


cya

Ralf
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Old 11-03-2005, 08:33 AM
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ralf - try HDTVpump or Nero's source/splitter
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Old 11-03-2005, 10:42 AM
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For Hard TC'ed 1080i/60Hz .ts (ex. War of the World, HD trailer) playback,
DScaler5 outperforms all of my other decoders:
Gabest Mpeg, Cyberlink DTV, OpenSource Mpeg2, Intervideo video/NonCSS,.........

Only with DScaler5, ReClock will report exactly 23.976FPS.
Film Detection works like a charm with Less CPU consumption, Fewer frame drop, Much better vertical resolution, Zero feathering. All SWEET.

BTW, with FFDShow in the chain, for DVD palyback, ReClock still reports 23.976FPS;
For 1080i HD, ReClock don't recognize the frame rate as BangoO previously reported.
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Old 11-03-2005, 10:57 AM
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What version of ReClock do you use Peter ?

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Old 11-03-2005, 11:27 AM
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Old 11-03-2005, 12:09 PM
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Ok I'll try again with that one just to check, but 1.5 beta always gave nothing but stutters on my PC, whereas 1.3 is just perfect...

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Old 11-03-2005, 02:11 PM
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Hi,

Unfortunatly HDTV Pump still does NOT support multible ts files.

cya

Ralf
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Old 11-03-2005, 05:49 PM
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Bitchen!

Now Zoom with Dscaler5 is my main laptop HD playback option.

1080i looks great!

Thanks!

-Suntan
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Old 11-03-2005, 06:50 PM
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Hi,

Watched today 1 complete film and one Criminal Minds Episode.

Worked very good...but it would be good if you can select the window which is used to detect video/film (i.e. left:10 % right 10% top 10% bottom 25 % -> resulting window size : 80 % Width 65 % Height)

Why do you ask ?

well...here are 2 reasons

1.) you can mask out logo bug animations on the bottom which confuses the detection of film/video (i.e. The CBS Logo Animation/TNT Bottom Animations)

2.) Minimize calculation time

cya
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Old 11-04-2005, 10:21 AM - Thread Starter
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You will find attached a new version of Dscaler with IVTC support, it is bit experimental so I will first ensure first it works correctly before I release the new source code.

What's new:
- more tolerant Film Detection that is when some film has been found a quite obvious video content will be necessary to switch back to video mode. The upside is that glitches and compression artfifacts are less likely to cause temporarly an unwanted return of video and its weave effects. The downside is that resync after a lost sync may take a bit more time

- new option to switch to 24fps, hopefull this is what expected BangoO...

- internal optimisations that should make the code faster. At least movies seems a bit smoother to me, but given the stuff I have done it might have the opposite effect on your system.

Edit: Updated the attachment, to make the new option 'Switch to 24fps' available

 

DscalerIVTC041105.zip 174.7431640625k . file
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Old 11-04-2005, 10:32 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amigenius View Post

Hi,

Watched today 1 complete film and one Criminal Minds Episode.

Worked very good...but it would be good if you can select the window which is used to detect video/film (i.e. left:10 % right 10% top 10% bottom 25 % -> resulting window size : 80 % Width 65 % Height)

Why do you ask ?

well...here are 2 reasons

1.) you can mask out logo bug animations on the bottom which confuses the detection of film/video (i.e. The CBS Logo Animation/TNT Bottom Animations)

2.) Minimize calculation time

cya

I will have a look at that, but it will be mostly for reason 1). Once a Film has been detected the CPU overhead is very low because there is as switch to a less precise film detection algorithm which is just there to detect potential return of video content.

However, improper film detection could be due simply to the fact that there isn't any 3:2 cadence. I have noticed that if remember correctly on CBS and FOX. I have read somewhere that some network in order to have more time for ads drop sometime a field and consequently break the cadence...
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Old 11-04-2005, 10:37 AM
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I no longer have the weave artifact w/ this version. works very nice except it tops of my Barton 3000+ then drops frames. I'm aware there is no DXVA. Is my CPU too slow? Using ZP 4.5 VMR9 windowless.

HDTV or BUST
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Old 11-04-2005, 10:59 AM - Thread Starter
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miketech,

The dll have been optimized for Pentium IV during the compilation. This could explain poor performances on non Intel processors. I might remove this compilation option in the future so that more people can use this Dscaler.

Otherwise just to know if my optimisations were efficient, would you say this version is slower or faster that the first one? thanks
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