Vista Beta 2 is out! - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 77 Old 05-23-2006, 01:09 PM - Thread Starter
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Well if you have an MSDN subscription it is.

I probably be installing it on my spare HD in my HTPC tonight, I'll let you all know how it went.

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post #2 of 77 Old 05-23-2006, 02:16 PM
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i applied for the xbox360 extender beta... hopefully i get in. im going to assume its part of the beta 2 release.

i will be interested to know if anything has changed from the previous versions.
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post #3 of 77 Old 05-23-2006, 02:43 PM
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I also applied for the xbox 360 extender beta. Not really sure which release it will be.
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post #4 of 77 Old 05-23-2006, 02:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oachalon
I also applied for the xbox 360 extender beta. Not really sure which release it will be.
seeing as teh beta2 came out today and we will know on the 360 extender beta within the next few weeks its a reasonable asumption it will be beta2. i have a pretty good feeling everybody who signed up for the extender beta will get in as there arent tat many people using the 360 to extend the media center (who would know where to signup for the vista beta)

i really hope they add to the tv tuner driver list.... as of the last beta my ati "ehome" tuner wasnt on the list of supported hardware. (i did my mce05 box as cheap as possible with the intention of going cablecard in jan with vista)
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post #5 of 77 Old 05-23-2006, 03:28 PM
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omg downloading now and will install to my laptop and desktops vista partition
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post #6 of 77 Old 05-23-2006, 04:52 PM - Thread Starter
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Can anybody get their product key? The tool MS has for issueing keys seems borked.

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post #7 of 77 Old 05-24-2006, 11:42 AM - Thread Starter
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Got my key.

Installed on my desktop, went pretty smoothly, have one device hanging out there that is unidentified.

Installed on my media center, lots of devices unrecognized including my tuner. Work on it some more later and get back to you guys.

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post #8 of 77 Old 05-24-2006, 12:08 PM
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How do you sign up for the xbox360 extender beta? Correction, Where?

HD ON THE BRAIN!!
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post #9 of 77 Old 05-24-2006, 02:27 PM
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My install also went smoothly. TV Wonder Elite and HDTV Wonder were detected automagically and just worked. I was pleasantly surprised to see the included mpeg2 decoder perform pretty well as far as picture quality goes.

The thing I'm most disappointed with is the performance in general of the operating system. Yes, it is a beta but this thing is a P I G. I'm running a P4 640 (3.2GHz) with a gig of RAM, Raptor hard drive and an ATI x700Pro (256meg). Lots of disk activity for the simplist of tasks. XPMCE feels 2 to 3x as fast.
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post #10 of 77 Old 05-24-2006, 03:51 PM - Thread Starter
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I'd agree with the crap perfomance.

My HPTC is an overclocked AXP at 1.9ghz w/ 512mb of ram and perfomance is total crap

My main box is opteron 165 overclocked to 2.66ghz (dual core) w/ 2gb of ram and perfomance is still total crap.

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post #11 of 77 Old 05-24-2006, 04:11 PM
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Don't you get it?

It's just the "consortium" making it necessary for you to buy a new computer.

Seriously...there is NO reason right now for people to upgrade their PC. OK, a new "killer" game comes out, and maybe you have to drop $400 on a new video card. But WHAT could make us NEED to upgrade everything? A new OS with a bunch of stuff nobody really needs that won't run on the mid-grade systems of today...

It's the man sticking it to you, separating you from your money. Just part of the planned obsolescence...

I'm seriously thinking about making the switch to console game boxes. For the price of JUST a high end video card I get several years of upgrade free gaming.

I'll keep my PC for the web and HTPC and I'll never have to upgrade again.

Just my thoughts...
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post #12 of 77 Old 05-24-2006, 04:44 PM
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Yeah, I do get it and I'm ok with it. Progress ... time marches on ... bigger and better software needs bigger and better hardware to run. As long as the new software is worth running then new hardware will get purchased to run it.

The problem in this case is that there's no compelling reason to upgrade to Vista if all you want to do is run MCE. From the short time I played with it Vista MCE offered no benefit to XPMCE.
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post #13 of 77 Old 05-24-2006, 05:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fdisker
Yeah, I do get it and I'm ok with it. Progress ... time marches on ... bigger and better software needs bigger and better hardware to run. As long as the new software is worth running then new hardware will get purchased to run it.

The problem in this case is that there's no compelling reason to upgrade to Vista if all you want to do is run MCE. From the short time I played with it Vista MCE offered no benefit to XPMCE.
cablecard is a huge reason to upgrade (for me atleast). plus i really like the way the navigation is done in vista vs mce (i never did like all the wasted space when viewing my music collection but i think vista puts stuff a bit too close) . A nice addition will be the mini guide which I have been waiting for.

I do want to see if they fixed the issue where you cant record from the buffer or not. Hopefully that issue has been fixed.
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post #14 of 77 Old 05-24-2006, 07:33 PM
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Yeah, yeah, yeah... it's all a big conspiracy. 10's of thousands of people go to work every day at MS just so they can screw everyone else out of money.

********. I've been a programmer and a system designer... I can tell you that everyone I know in the business does it because they love it, not because they are trying to stick it too you. If you don't like vista then don't upgrade but keep your conspiracy theories and sell em to Olivery Stone so he has something to do.

Ok, Rant over.

I agree with the previous post. Cablecard is the big reason to upgrade... I just wish I could build a cablecard machine myself.

Also, I like the sideshow stuff... someone had a demo sideshow app for MCE that had a sideshow widget running on a remote control that allowed you to view the program guide and navigate the MCE interface instead of on the TV. I think that's pretty darn slick.

There are other reasons to upgrade to Vista but I agree that by and large most people will have no compelling reason to upgrade other than the fact that they want to play with the latest and greatest. For those that want to play (like most of the posters on this forum) have at it. For Joe user who just uses the PC as a tool, they just need to upgrade when it's too painful not too.
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post #15 of 77 Old 05-24-2006, 08:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fdisker

The problem in this case is that there's no compelling reason to upgrade to Vista if all you want to do is run MCE. From the short time I played with it Vista MCE offered no benefit to XPMCE.
MCE = Windows Media Center Edition right? So what do you mean by "there's no compelling reason to upgrade to Vista if all you want to do is run MCE". That doesn't seem to make sense to me. Buy an OS to run an OS? Unless MCE is something separate from the OS.

I have XP Pro. Is there like an add on pack I can buy to give it MCE functionality?
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post #16 of 77 Old 05-25-2006, 05:25 AM
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MCE is a feature included in some versions of Vista. It's not being marketed as a seperate OS, like it was with XP.
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post #17 of 77 Old 05-25-2006, 03:23 PM
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Ive got a question for those that are running beta 2.... what tuner cards are you using and how well are they working?

If I get accepted into the extender beta great but I also have access to the msdn stuff though a friend so I can get beta 2 if I dont get accepted but Im pretty sure my tv tuner isnt on the compatible hardware yet (its the ati "ehome" tv tuner). My bro is looking for a tuner so I have the oppertunity to get rid of mine and get something that will work properly with vista (which i plan on using to hold me over until cablecard becomes avaliable)

So any suggested cards that work with the new beta2?
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post #18 of 77 Old 05-25-2006, 04:07 PM
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Big Al,

It's NOT a big conspiracy...it's just BUSINESS.

You're the little guy slaving away for the REAL Big Al. The real Big Al is ALWAYS thinking of ways to separate you and I from our money. That's it. That's ALL he thinks about and all he wants. He wants you to buy his current product and he's trying his hardest to make sure you HAVE to buy his next product too.

Vista is just a move closer to locking up ALL content and eventually having you "rent" software by paying a fee for the use of EVERYTHING. M$ would like nothing more than to hit you up EVERY time you launch one of their products or get some content instead of YOU owning it. Hell, you don't own what you buy now...

I hope this beta is better than the last. The last was a real pig. A pig with fancy makeup.

Edit: OK, I'm using it now...seems like a pretty big improvement over the last few. Not too shabby really. But still confusing trying to find where things are. I find myself going back to the "classic" view a LOT so I can actually change settings.

This one doesn't seem to have all the disk thrashing of the earlier builds. Still has all the security (click here to allow) crap. I'll have to figure out how to turn that off...

But still...NOT a reason to upgrade my computer. An AMD 64 3000+, 1 gig, 6600GT. Vista performance rating of 3.
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post #19 of 77 Old 05-25-2006, 06:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jagouar
Ive got a question for those that are running beta 2.... what tuner cards are you using and how well are they working?

If I get accepted into the extender beta great but I also have access to the msdn stuff though a friend so I can get beta 2 if I dont get accepted but Im pretty sure my tv tuner isnt on the compatible hardware yet (its the ati "ehome" tv tuner). My bro is looking for a tuner so I have the oppertunity to get rid of mine and get something that will work properly with vista (which i plan on using to hold me over until cablecard becomes avaliable)

So any suggested cards that work with the new beta2?
There are quite a few TV tuners that are supported natively by Windows Vista either in the build or by visiting Windows Update for Windows Vista. After you install and if your tuner isn't detected, just go to Windows Update to see if the driver is available there. If that fails, you should be able to install the WindowsXP driver from the hardware vendor's website.

As for a recommendation, I'm using an ATI TV Wonder ELITE and most of the Hauppauge cards. Both of them are suppported with a quick visit to the Vista Windows Update feature.

Jay P. Kapur
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post #20 of 77 Old 05-25-2006, 11:25 PM
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Is this beta able to tune to QAM (Digital Cable Channels) using the Dvico FusionHDTV ?

Thanks,
Nate
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post #21 of 77 Old 05-26-2006, 04:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joeuser2
Big Al,

It's NOT a big conspiracy...it's just BUSINESS.

You're the little guy slaving away for the REAL Big Al. The real Big Al is ALWAYS thinking of ways to separate you and I from our money. That's it. That's ALL he thinks about and all he wants. He wants you to buy his current product and he's trying his hardest to make sure you HAVE to buy his next product too.

Vista is just a move closer to locking up ALL content and eventually having you "rent" software by paying a fee for the use of EVERYTHING. M$ would like nothing more than to hit you up EVERY time you launch one of their products or get some content instead of YOU owning it. Hell, you don't own what you buy now...

I hope this beta is better than the last. The last was a real pig. A pig with fancy makeup.

Edit: OK, I'm using it now...seems like a pretty big improvement over the last few. Not too shabby really. But still confusing trying to find where things are. I find myself going back to the "classic" view a LOT so I can actually change settings.

This one doesn't seem to have all the disk thrashing of the earlier builds. Still has all the security (click here to allow) crap. I'll have to figure out how to turn that off...

But still...NOT a reason to upgrade my computer. An AMD 64 3000+, 1 gig, 6600GT. Vista performance rating of 3.
Well, part of the problem is MS basically has a monopoly (no, not 100%), so people have no where else to turn and therefore get a bit excited.

Dave G.
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post #22 of 77 Old 05-26-2006, 04:45 AM
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I wonder how long till Google bring out an OS... it seems an inevitable evolution.
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post #23 of 77 Old 05-26-2006, 07:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jpk
There are quite a few TV tuners that are supported natively by Windows Vista either in the build or by visiting Windows Update for Windows Vista. After you install and if your tuner isn't detected, just go to Windows Update to see if the driver is available there. If that fails, you should be able to install the WindowsXP driver from the hardware vendor's website.

As for a recommendation, I'm using an ATI TV Wonder ELITE and most of the Hauppauge cards. Both of them are suppported with a quick visit to the Vista Windows Update feature.
I tried to do the xp drivers but was never able to get it to work properly... I was looking at going with the Hauppauge WinTV-PVR-500MCE, so does anybody use that particular card with the vista media center?
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post #24 of 77 Old 05-26-2006, 10:08 AM
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Nate - QAM is supported through the ATI Open Cable receiver device in limited Beta release with Beta 2.

Jagouar - ATI may have dropped support for their eHome Wonder TV tuner with the release of the TV Wonder Elite. Yes, the Hauppauge PVR-500 is supported with Vista.

Jay P. Kapur
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post #25 of 77 Old 05-26-2006, 10:18 AM
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Jay -

Will MCE Vista require an NTSC tuner, or have we gotten past that finally?
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post #26 of 77 Old 05-26-2006, 10:23 AM
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Vista Beta 2 still requires an NTSC tuner to use ATSC. The final product will not require an analog tuner for ATSC, so you will be able to use Media Center as an ATSC-only PVR if you choose. A separate NTSC tuner will not be needed for Cable Card receivers either.

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post #27 of 77 Old 05-26-2006, 11:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jpk
Vista Beta 2 still requires an NTSC tuner to use ATSC. The final product will not require an analog tuner for ATSC, so you will be able to use Media Center as an ATSC-only PVR if you choose. A separate NTSC tuner will not be needed for Cable Card receivers either.
JPK, is softsled included in this release?
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post #28 of 77 Old 05-26-2006, 11:22 AM
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Jay:

Does Beta 2 or will the final release of Vista have te softsled feature or a media center client/server function? I am a former MCE 2005 user but have migrated to SageTV specifically for this feature. I like the concept of having all TV sources going into one pc, then being able to watch live or recorded tv elsewhere in the house. I miss the multitude of internet radio (MSN, napster, live365) that MCE seamlessly integrates as well as the wider array of plug-ins that MCE has over sage, though.

I know the xbox 360 does this as an extender, but it's lack of support for other formats (vob, xvid,etc) without transcoding and its lack of a true digital output that doesn't undergo analog to digital conversion via DVI or HDMI are the two things that make it a dealbreaker for me. Converting the analog component or analog VGA to HDMI/DVI is not what I want to do! I use sage with three ATSC tuners and no NTSC tuner, so it's nice to hear that Vista RTM will allow this too. :cool:

If I could have other XPMCE2K5 or Vista PC's on the home network lift live and recorded ATSC TV from ONE Vista box/server, and have my internet radio, ripped DVD's, music, and photos all from one ui, then I'd go back to the MCE/Vista camp.

Then again, if Sage offered an internet radio plugin, then I might just stick with that.....

Anyway, thank you for any resoponse in advance :-)

Jay
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post #29 of 77 Old 05-26-2006, 11:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jpk
Nate - QAM is supported through the ATI Open Cable receiver device in limited Beta release with Beta 2.

Jagouar - ATI may have dropped support for their eHome Wonder TV tuner with the release of the TV Wonder Elite. Yes, the Hauppauge PVR-500 is supported with Vista.
I dont suppose you could hook me up with one of those OCUR's ;)

Since we have a real MS person here there is one question that I never have gotten a straight answer with... will we be allowed to connect more than one OCUR device to our media center pc's? (specifically I want to use 2 2.0 cablecards for a total of 4 tuners). Im starting to plan out my vista upgrade and cablecard is the most important feature to me since I will be able to remove every other device in my theater and right now I just use an extender to connect to my media center "server" which is in the closet. Im planning on adding more extenders to my house but I want to see what the 2nd generation extenders offer in terms of codec support before getting more xbox 360's.
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post #30 of 77 Old 05-26-2006, 12:00 PM
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The better question is where do we sign up to beta test the OCUR or the new DirecTV MCE receiver?
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