Artec T14A Mini USB 2.0 HDTV tuner - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 321 Old 08-29-2006, 10:54 AM
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does anyone have this tuner used for their home pc?

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post #92 of 321 Old 08-29-2006, 11:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Nagy View Post

It looks like it will work only if the ATSC tuner card also has an software encoded analog tuner. AKA hybrid. VBox does not have analog tuner. The following ATSC brands that have been reported to work without analog tuner:

ATI HDTV Wonder
DViCo Fusion 5 (possibly Fusion 3)
K-World
Artec?
FujiPlus?


Peter

Peter,

You are correct. Any tuner that does both ATSC and NTSC should work with Kram in MCE 2005. The Fujiplus definitely works w/Kram and no seperate NTSC tuner.

It is NOT true that Microsoft has "patched" MCE 2005 so no NTSC tuner is required. Vista Beta 2 still requires an analog tuner, but the new Vista general release (RC1), expected in a couple of weeks, will not.

Russ
www.hdtvtunerinfo.com
P.S.
Terry, Suggestion noted. I'll make the change to H2M description. Thanks
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post #93 of 321 Old 08-29-2006, 12:56 PM
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No it is true. I am watching ATSC right now on my laptop which has no NTSC tuner in it. Maybe Vista Beta 2 can't do it yet, but MCE 2005 can.

I use an Artec and it works. I have never owned a USB NTSC tuner nor does Artec support NTSC. And since my laptop has no PCI slots I can't install a PCI NTSC tuner. And yet I plugged it in, ran the manual setup for the tuner (automatic did not work), and now I am watching ATSC.

I thought it was impossible as well, but when I posted this in another thread someone said MS had posted a patch that had fixed this.

I do still get the listings for the NTSC stuff, but I can't tune them in. So its not an elegant fix. I just manually remove all the NTSC from the guide listings.
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post #94 of 321 Old 08-29-2006, 01:09 PM
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Perhaps the Artec works without an analog tuner, because of its drivers? Looking at the .inf file, it mentions analog entries such as
KSSTRING_AnlgCaptureFilter%,TwBdaDevice.AnlgCapture,0
and other strings such as
"Analog TV CrossBar Filter"
"Analog TV Tuner Filter"
"Analog TV Capture Filter"

Perhaps, even if the tuner cannot do or is not capable of analog tuning, the drivers make it appear as though an analog tuner is installed for MCE? Just a hypothesis.

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post #95 of 321 Old 08-29-2006, 01:23 PM
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That could be. But even if that is what is going on, it still lets you use MCE without an analog card. Which is what people want to do, regardless of how its done.

Other manufacturers should do it too.
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post #96 of 321 Old 08-29-2006, 01:35 PM - Thread Starter
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You said "manual setup" as opposed to "automatic setup". Please describe exactly step by step procedure of running manual setup? Go to "Settings->TV->????" or "Settings->Guide->????", etc?

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post #97 of 321 Old 08-29-2006, 02:29 PM
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settings->TV->Setup TV Signal

Select your region, then you get these two options:

"configure my TV automatically (recommended) "
"I will manually configure my TV signal"

Select the bottom option (manual).

I select Antenna for signal type. Run through the rest of the setup etc.
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post #98 of 321 Old 08-29-2006, 02:41 PM - Thread Starter
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That did not work for VBox DTA-150 ATSC tuner card. Everytime I go there I get a message "No NTSC tuner card installed" and that's it. It would not let me go further.

Peter
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post #99 of 321 Old 08-29-2006, 02:46 PM
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bathomps,

Thanks for the info. Your right that this is what a lot of us want, no analog required for MCE 2005. It just ain't gonna happen (from Microsoft anyway). They have stopped anything but security fixes for MCE 2005. They want nothing to steal the thunder from Vista. It's good to know one tuner gets around it. Makes one wonder if it was an accident or ....
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post #100 of 321 Old 08-29-2006, 02:59 PM
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Ya it definately seems like a driver tweak for the Artec now.

In another thread I had posted my results which had surprised me, and someone posted that the behavior was well know and it was a fix from MS. So I assumed that MS had really done so.

But based on Peter's results this is not the case. Thanks for trying it.

I noticed in the driver docs that it does state it will not work in MCE without a NTSC tuner. So I don't know if it was by design that it works.
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post #101 of 321 Old 08-29-2006, 04:38 PM - Thread Starter
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I agree. I seriously doubt MS updated the "fix" to cheat MCE 2005 that there is an analog tuner installed because it didn't work with VBox ATSC tuner.

It's most likely drivers for ATSC tuner cards that cheated MCE 2005. I don't think ATSC tuner card manufacturers would risk advertising that their driver works without analog tuner probably because they could get in trouble with MS but why should MS care?

Could you copy and paste the "Analog" information from Artec's *.inf file so that I could paste it to VBox *.inf file and see if it would cheat MCE 2005?

Thanks,
Peter
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post #102 of 321 Old 08-29-2006, 06:07 PM
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Hey Peter,

Go here and download Vista pre-RC1 (for a very limited time). Then you won't have to cheat! The latest Vbox drivers work great with Vista.

Russ
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post #103 of 321 Old 08-29-2006, 06:28 PM - Thread Starter
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I thought pre-release Vista still requires analog tuner. The official Vista release will remove the analog tuner requirement.
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post #104 of 321 Old 08-29-2006, 06:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Nagy View Post

I thought pre-release Vista still requires analog tuner. The official Vista release will remove the analog tuner requirement.

Nope, this release has no analog requirement. Same goes for the "real" RC1 due out in a couple of weeks or so.
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post #105 of 321 Old 08-29-2006, 08:02 PM - Thread Starter
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Cool. Which version of VBox did you use with Vista?

2.1.705.0
2.1.705.7
2.1.705.10

I have found 2.1.705.0 to be the most stable. The other two causes problems. The 2.1.705.10 prevents from starting the computer!!!!!!!

I am download Vista RC-1 right now. This file is huge: 2.58 GB!!!!!!

Thanks,
Peter
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post #106 of 321 Old 08-29-2006, 08:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Nagy View Post

Cool. Which version of VBox did you use with Vista?

2.1.705.0
2.1.705.7
2.1.705.10

Thanks,
Peter

2.1.705.7 worked great with my DTA-150 on Beta 2. Version 705.0 won't work per Shimon (before he left Vbox). Looking forward to using it without that analog card I had to install with Beta 2!!!
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post #107 of 321 Old 08-29-2006, 09:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Nagy View Post

I thought pre-release Vista still requires analog tuner. The official Vista release will remove the analog tuner requirement.

FYI:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=709389

Q. Is an analog TV tuner required for Vista MCE?
A. Yes for Beta 2, but not for release 5449 or higher.

So it has been required in past betas, but not for RC1 and the final release.

[ ReplayTV 5040 | SlingBox | Orb TV server | Handheld MCE 2005 ]
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post #108 of 321 Old 08-30-2006, 12:45 AM
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I've posted an updated version with better debugging in the first post in the watchhdtv thread so everyone can try it out.

WatchHDTV.net- FREE HDTV tuning software
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post #109 of 321 Old 08-30-2006, 07:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alcuin99 View Post

Are you sure about that? I thought a previous poster mentioned he got both the ATSC and NTSC tuner working in MCE.


Actually, jimwhite had previously install ATI HDTV Wonder, which already passed MCE's analog requirement. (you can read jimwhite recent posts).

And read RussT's post on 8-28-2006. And go to his website, you can find a hack driver called Kram's driver, which can bypass MCE's analog requirement. I tried, and successfully bypass it and watch some programs in MCE. However, if you uninstalled the Kram's driver, you wouldn't be able to watch in MCE again.
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post #110 of 321 Old 08-30-2006, 08:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Nagy View Post

It's most likely drivers for ATSC tuner cards that cheated MCE 2005. I don't think ATSC tuner card manufacturers would risk advertising that their driver works without analog tuner probably because they could get in trouble with MS but why should MS care?

Could you copy and paste the "Analog" information from Artec's *.inf file so that I could paste it to VBox *.inf file and see if it would cheat MCE 2005?

Thanks,
Peter


Peter,
I agreed with you about ARTEC's driver cheats MCE2005. I opened ARTEC's & FujiPlus' cases (these two are similar, and easy to open - with care). I found they both have one LG chip, but only FujiPlus has one Trident chip called TVMaster. And I found that TVMaster is a baseband chip for analog signal. So I assume that their LG chip should be chip for digital signal. Am I right? The another different thing is that ARTEC using LGDT3303 (5th generation chip), and FujiPlus using LGDT3302.
In my PC, I do have better quality in ARTEC than FujiPlus.

I think ARTEC cheats MCE in their driver. If it is so, I don't think paste .inf file will do the same trick too. Just my personal opinions.
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post #111 of 321 Old 08-30-2006, 09:34 AM - Thread Starter
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Fair enough.

I will try Vista RC-1 I just downloaded last night.

Peter
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post #112 of 321 Old 08-30-2006, 09:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pcting View Post

I opened ARTEC's & FujiPlus' cases (these two are similar, and easy to open - with care).

pcting, thanks for your report. Would it be in any way possible for you to post some pics of the internals for these boards?
Quote:
FujiPlus has one Trident chip called TVMaster. And I found that TVMaster is a baseband chip for analog signal.

Yes. It functions as the A/V Decoder and USB bridge.

You should probably also be able to identify the tuner and the analog demodulator ICs on the board... it quite possibly may be using a single IC, such as an Xceive model, thereby incorporating by functions into one chip

Quote:
I found they both have one LG chip...So I assume that their LG chip should be chip for digital signal. Am I right?

Yes. The LG chips you identified are the digital demodulators for the device.

For analog TV signals the pathway is:
- tuner receives RF signal and converts it to a IF, and outputs it to
- the analog demodulater, whereby it becomes cvsb signal and outputs it to
- the AV decoder, whereby the cvsb undergoes analog-to-digital-conversion into a RGB or YUV bitstream, which is then outputted to
- the usb bridge, which places the bitstream onto the [us]bus, which is then conveyed to the host system for processing

For digital TV signals the pathway is:
- tuner receives RF signal and converts it to a IF, and outputs it to
- the digtial demodulater, whereby the mpeg2 TS is recovered from the IF, and is then outputted to
- the AV decoder, which acts solely as a conduit, passing the mpeg2 TS off to
- the usb bridge, which places the mpeg2 TS onto the [us]bus, which is then conveyed to the host system for processing

Quote:
The another different thing is that ARTEC using LGDT3303 (5th generation chip), and FujiPlus using LGDT3302.

As might be surmised, the 3303 is the newer of the two demodulators.
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post #113 of 321 Old 08-30-2006, 07:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pcting View Post

Actually, jimwhite had previously install ATI HDTV Wonder, which already passed MCE's analog requirement. (you can read jimwhite recent posts).

And read RussT's post on 8-28-2006. And go to his website, you can find a hack driver called Kram's driver, which can bypass MCE's analog requirement. I tried, and successfully bypass it and watch some programs in MCE. However, if you uninstalled the Kram's driver, you wouldn't be able to watch in MCE again.

I'm sorry; I guess I'm misunderstanding jimwhite's original post. When he refers to getting his digital and analog tuner working, I thought he was referring to getting both the Fujiplus digital and the Fujiplus analog tuners to recognize in MCE, and getting around the analog tuner requirement in that manner; much like how the Kram driver allows both the digital and analog tuners of the ATI wonder work on MCE (though of course not to allow simultameous viewing).

If he was referring to using the Fujiplus digital and ATI HDTV wonder analog to pass the tuner requirement, I guess that's different; I dunno.

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post #114 of 321 Old 08-30-2006, 09:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Nagy View Post

I will try Vista RC-1 I just downloaded last night.

Peter,
Don't do it. RC1 stinks. I spend 4 hours today trying to get rid of a jerky picture. I don't think DxVA works in Vista for some reason, and when I tried two tuners (one was the Vbox), Media Center crashed. I tried both Nvidia and ATI video card and decoders on a 3 GHz, 1 Gig memory, Pentium 4 with various digital tuners. Nothing stopped the jitters. You don't need an analog tuner, but who cares if you can't watch the picture.

Not ready for prime time!!
Russ
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post #115 of 321 Old 08-30-2006, 10:47 PM - Thread Starter
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Looks like Vista is a resource hog.

Peter
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post #116 of 321 Old 09-02-2006, 09:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hdtval21 View Post

I've posted an updated version with better debugging in the first post in the watchhdtv thread so everyone can try it out.

Your WatchHDTV program is awesome. Picture quality is great, and channel changin is much easier than the built in program. Pause and record don't work for me on the Artec tuner though, just fyi. I haven't been able to get any program to get signal strength from the Artec tuner either. The bundled program does do station name and show schedule info, which is nice. Keep up the great work.

[ ReplayTV 5040 | SlingBox | Orb TV server | Handheld MCE 2005 ]
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post #117 of 321 Old 09-02-2006, 01:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alcuin99 View Post

Your WatchHDTV program is awesome. Pause and record don't work for me on the Artec tuner though, just fyi. Keep up the great work.

WatchHDTV will not record or timeshift with the MCE2005 OS, only XP. hdtval21 is aware of the issue.
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post #118 of 321 Old 09-05-2006, 09:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audiopho View Post

Just saw this in its web bsite, spec:

Special System Requirements P4 3.0 GHZ CPU or above
for HDTV function

Which concerns me. I just bought this (being shipped) to use with my Dell Insp 9300 lappy since I'm on the road a lot. My Dell's is Pentium Mobile 1.6ghz I think. Would it still work?

I've got a dual 1.83GHz w/ 2GB RAM. this should be enough, right?
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post #119 of 321 Old 09-05-2006, 03:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RussT View Post

WatchHDTV will not record or timeshift with the MCE2005 OS, only XP. hdtval21 is aware of the issue.

Oh ok. I forgot to mention I was using regular XP, but thanks for the info; I'll try reading the docs to see if there's any more tips on getting it to work. I also have a MCE machine, but at the time I was just trying it out on my desktop.

[ ReplayTV 5040 | SlingBox | Orb TV server | Handheld MCE 2005 ]
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post #120 of 321 Old 09-06-2006, 08:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theonlyone View Post

I've got a dual 1.83GHz w/ 2GB RAM. this should be enough, right?

Yeah. You're fine.

Gen Coupe 3.8 Track w/ bolts-on tune: SRI , CBE

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