AutumnWave / OnAir USB HDTV Tuners - Page 22 - AVS Forum
View Poll Results: Which OnAir tuner do you own?
OnAir GT 196 49.37%
OnAir Creator 37 9.32%
Don't own one yet 164 41.31%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 397. You may not vote on this poll

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post #631 of 2961 Old 11-17-2006, 03:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rpertusio View Post


jazjon,
Do you have the latest MCE updates? (In 'Update 1', there was a fix specifically for this issue). How well do the recordings playback in Windows Media Player? Are they in sync there? Is the sync issue a constant (eg. always 1 second) or drifting (progressively gets worse)?


Thanks,
- Ryan Pertusio

AutumnWave Technical Support
OnAir Solution North America
http://www.autumnwave.com/

Ok here are my findings.

The Sync issue only happens the first time you play a .tp recording You can the video stutter-freeze for half a second or more, and then the audio is off by about one second. (doesnt get worse or better, sync stays the same)

Here's the interesting thing. If I click stop, and then play, the sync is perfect. If I close media player, and start the file from scratch it has the sync issue again for the first time only. (stop, play fixes it)

This is the same behavior in Windows Media Center, via My Videos as well.

Again, playing back via OnAir app is always good.

What might cause the stutter?

I have the latest fresh build of Windows Media Center 2005 + 100% of all microsoft/windows updates.

I run the latest version of NVidia Pure Video Plat
I have the FULL package of KLITE codec (I unchecked most everything like FFDSHOW, and only used XviD,DivX, h.264, CoreAAC, AAC, AC3 package)
I have Real and QuickTime alternative packages installed

Here is my complete brand new HTPC hardware setup.

I have Acronis True Image so I can roll back to pre codec environment to test if needed. I can record a video and post it to you tube if you want to see the exact sync problem in action.



EDIT: Ok, I played with SageTV Beta 6 a bit more. I let it record an HD QAM channel. It records the file as a .MPG Both Media Player and Media Center dont have a sync issue. but............

The aspect ratio is funny though. 16:9 is tall/skinny like 4:3. 4:3 digital recordings are even MORE skinny then. Playback in SageTV is ok though?

We are right on a edge of getting easy to use tivo like QAM. recordings. I hope these minor bugs can be worked out soon. (cant wait) Let me know what else I can do to help deliver useful info to improve things further.

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post #632 of 2961 Old 11-19-2006, 08:11 PM
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Question for Ryan. I expect that I'll need a separate dedicated machine for the TV which is in the living room, quite distant from my den with the linux machines. So getting a Windows machine is not a problem. I'm looking at getting a basic Dell with XP Home and a honking big harddrive. I have a couple of options for video card on Dell's configuration menu. Will I see much difference between...
- NVIDIA GeForce 6150 LE Integrated Graphics GPU
- 256MB NVIDIA Geforce 7300LE TurboCache
- 256MB ATI Radeon X1300 Pro
when running with the OnAir GT?
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post #633 of 2961 Old 11-19-2006, 08:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Walter Dnes View Post

- NVIDIA GeForce 6150 LE Integrated Graphics GPU
- 256MB NVIDIA Geforce 7300LE TurboCache
- 256MB ATI Radeon X1300 Pro

The 6150 won't do spatio-temporal deinterlacing, so if you ever want to watch 1080i content, don't get that one. The TurboCache I'm pretty sure uses system memory instead of dedicated video card memory, which I personally wouldn't go for. The x1300pro would be my pick. I've had one NVIDIA and one ATI card, and the ATI had better color and required slightly less CPU.
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post #634 of 2961 Old 11-19-2006, 08:46 PM
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NVidia "Pure Video" codec is perfect for HD, and DVD though. (not free)

(Everything looks better then ever when used with this software)

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post #635 of 2961 Old 11-19-2006, 08:52 PM
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Yep, PureVideo really works well, and it works with both NVIDIA and ATI cards. It also comes with the OnAir GT.
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post #636 of 2961 Old 11-19-2006, 09:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric89GXL View Post

Yep, PureVideo really works well, and it works with both NVIDIA and ATI cards. It also comes with the OnAir GT.

That's news to me. How would PureVideo work well with ATI cards? I thought it used a special NVidia chip only found on newer GeForce cards. (for HD, h.264, etc etc) It might let you play back DVD's but I doubt it would be in all it's pure video enhanced glory.

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post #637 of 2961 Old 11-19-2006, 09:54 PM
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My experience with NVIDIA PureVideo is with HDTV decoding with three pieces of hardware, all using the NVIDIA Purevideo software. I made sure it was using the NVIDIA codec by 1) selecting it in the OnAir registry settings and 2) uninstalling the other MPEG2 decoders on my system so that I knew it had to use NVIDIA. (To check I uninstalled NVIDIA and made sure that nothing would play, and then installed NVIDIA.) My experience with hardware:

1) NVIDIA 6200. Could not do spatio-temporal deinterlacing, so I /had/ to use "weave" deinterlace mode on 1080i signals. Watching UofM beat up on Notre Dame on NBC looked terrible. Color in videos was always bad (no matter how much I fiddled with the settings). Used 20-25% CPU during OnAir HDTV watching.

2) ATI x1600Pro. Works perfectly. Deinterlaces 1080i signals without issue. Colors are natural (without having to change any settings from default). Used 16-22% CPU during OnAir HDTV watching.

3) ATI Mobility Radeon 9000. This is on my almost 3-year-old laptop. It works perfectly, deinterlacing, colors, and such.

There /might/ be some features that I'm missing by using ATI cards (like hardware MPEG4 decoding), but I've had great HDTV performance with PureVideo through them--lower CPU use, better color, and better deinterlacing being among the advantages. I'd like to know what advantages you actually get through using NVIDIA hardware with the PureVideo codec, because I've seen none. If the PureVideo software requires some special "chip" for MPEG2 decoding work to be offloaded on the graphics card...then I guess my old 9000 and new 1600 both have it.

As a side note, you might think it's not fair comparing the x1600pro to the 6200 because they come from different generations. And it isn't fair. I could buy a 6600 or higher and it would probably be fine. But NVIDIA's 6200 also lost hands-down to my nearly 3-year-old ATI laptop graphics card while both cards used NVIDIA's own software. That just looks bad. In at least two ways.
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post #638 of 2961 Old 11-19-2006, 10:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Walter Dnes View Post

- NVIDIA GeForce 6150 LE Integrated Graphics GPU
- 256MB NVIDIA Geforce 7300LE TurboCache
- 256MB ATI Radeon X1300 Pro
when running with the OnAir GT?

From these choices, I would go with the 7300LE, it supports the most "pure video" functions, and I wouldn't be worried about turbocache for video playback. It is not like you are playing a game and storing a lot of textures in memory, you are streaming video, all data is new and coming over the buss, the only memory that is needed is for the math that is happening to each frame, and storing comparison frames. That is not going to take a ton of memory, and the turbo cache cards do have some local high speed memory (32-128MB).
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post #639 of 2961 Old 11-20-2006, 08:29 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jazjon View Post

I have Acronis True Image so I can roll back to pre codec environment to test if needed. I can record a video and post it to you tube if you want to see the exact sync problem in action.

jazjon,
Better yet, upload a sample clip to ftp://ftp.autumnwave.com/incoming/ and I'll see if the problem is in the recorded file, or in the way it is decoded/displayed. (Notify me via PM/email if you do upload a file.)


Quote:
Originally Posted by Walter Dnes View Post

I have a couple of options for video card on Dell's configuration menu. Will I see much difference between...
- NVIDIA GeForce 6150 LE Integrated Graphics GPU
- 256MB NVIDIA Geforce 7300LE TurboCache
- 256MB ATI Radeon X1300 Pro
when running with the OnAir GT?

Walter Dnes,
As the others suggested, the X1300 or 7300LE would probably be your best choice... although the 6150 would certainly be adequate if cost was a major concern.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric89GXL View Post

Yep, PureVideo really works well, and it works with both NVIDIA and ATI cards. It also comes with the OnAir GT.

Eric89GXL and jazjon,
It is a common misconception that the 'nVidia PureVideo Decoder' will only work on nVidia graphics cards. However, it works on ATI, Intel, and nVidia cards! The decoder will use the special nVidia features if you have an nVidia card, but you won't notice much of a difference if you use an ATI card. (In fact, as Eric89GXL, there are situations I've seen where the combination of an ATI card + nVidia Decoder work much better than an nVidia card + nVidia Decoder combination.)

I just created a new FAQ item at our website to reflect this question:
Can I use my ATI or Intel graphics card with the nVidia PureVideo Decoder?

Thanks,
- Ryan Pertusio

AutumnWave Technical Support
OnAir Solution North America
http://www.autumnwave.com/
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post #640 of 2961 Old 11-21-2006, 04:00 AM
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Ryan - what is expected availability of your OTA STB?
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post #641 of 2961 Old 11-21-2006, 07:09 AM - Thread Starter
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estimated Q1 2007
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post #642 of 2961 Old 11-21-2006, 08:09 AM
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I have the GT and have it running with my ATI 8500DV. Using the native OnAir app I get outstanding quality - no video glitches or sync issues. Recording is even better than I expected. However, I am trying to use it w/ GB-PVR and Sage to increase the 'wife acceptance factor', but neither of these work any where near as well as the native app. I get all kinds of video lags, color shifts, etc. I have tried using different decoders in the config for each app w/ no joy. Any suggestions?

Like my dad used to tell me... 'you're not useless, we can always use you for a bad example.'
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post #643 of 2961 Old 11-21-2006, 09:05 AM
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OK suppose I buy a Creator and install on computer in my home office. I have a TV in the kitchen and another in the living room from which I'd like to be able to play back shows recorded on my PC and also have the capability of time shifting while recording. Is there some way to do this? Linksys makes a Media Center Extender (WMCE54AG) which comes with its own remote but I think this works only with Media Center computers. Anyone know if there is some other way to do this?
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post #644 of 2961 Old 11-21-2006, 09:55 AM
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otaguy:
What about a generic IR repeater? They're available for wired or wireless (RF). Wireless is easiest to install and should work well between nearby rooms if there isn't a lot of shielding or interference. A quick Google search turned up a set for $35; there are probably many others.
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post #645 of 2961 Old 11-21-2006, 11:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by otaguy View Post

OK suppose I buy a Creator and install on computer in my home office. I have a TV in the kitchen and another in the living room from which I'd like to be able to play back shows recorded on my PC and also have the capability of time shifting while recording. Is there some way to do this? Linksys makes a Media Center Extender (WMCE54AG) which comes with its own remote but I think this works only with Media Center computers. Anyone know if there is some other way to do this?

Generally you can't stream HD wirelessly due to bandwidth. Maybe with gigabite lan but assuming you are hard wired streaming the HD ts (trp) file won't be any problem

I currently do that with the shows I am recording - whether with a MyHD or a Creator. I will play from whereever it was recorded to wherever I want to see it. So the MyHD plays the Creator file; or my Aver LinkPlayer2 network DVD player will play any of these files or also anything like ts files saved via firewire from a COMCAST STB.

The key on doing it live while recording is whether or not the file is locked during recording. MyHD doesn't lock the files so I can successfully playback with the LP2. I haven't tried Creator files yet - I may test that and see if it also works while recording. In any event you can do it onced finished no matter what (over a wired lan)
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post #646 of 2961 Old 11-21-2006, 12:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RalphArch View Post

Generally you can't stream HD wirelessly due to bandwidth. Maybe with gigabite lan but assuming you are hard wired streaming the HD ts (trp) file won't be any problem

I currently do that with the shows I am recording - whether with a MyHD or a Creator. I will play from whereever it was recorded to wherever I want to see it. So the MyHD plays the Creator file; or my Aver LinkPlayer2 network DVD player will play any of these files or also anything like ts files saved via firewire from a COMCAST STB.

The key on doing it live while recording is whether or not the file is locked during recording. MyHD doesn't lock the files so I can successfully playback with the LP2. I haven't tried Creator files yet - I may test that and see if it also works while recording. In any event you can do it onced finished no matter what (over a wired lan)

I think OnAir does lock the file while it's recording, I think I tried to play back a file once in Media Player while it was recording and it wouldn't let me, something about another application is using it, something along those lines.
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post #647 of 2961 Old 11-21-2006, 01:06 PM
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Hey Ryan,

I found a WMP/MCE stutter playback fix. I upgraded to Windows Media Player 11. I also rolled back my machine first back to my baseline image first. I decided to go with Nero instead of using KLITE Codec pack. Nero handles all formats of video/audio decoding. (even xvid, ac3, etc in via Media Center) I still have Pure Video installed as well.

So either WM11 or Nero has fixed the stutter issue. (not sure which one) It's always in sync though now!


~Jon

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post #648 of 2961 Old 11-21-2006, 01:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rebkell View Post

I think OnAir does lock the file while it's recording, I think I tried to play back a file once in Media Player while it was recording and it wouldn't let me, something about another application is using it, something along those lines.

And you should be able to get around this by setting the file size to a discrete number and then waiting the period of time for that to start watching in the second location.

In general I like to record to a single file - but I discovered that my LP2 gets the sound and video out of sync at commercials cut point after processing with H2, so I have reverted to using the clip method in that program and now I can play back commercial cut tv shows (Creator or MyHD based) without interruptions and withot audio sync issues on the Linkplayer2.
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post #649 of 2961 Old 11-21-2006, 10:27 PM
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Ok, I'm just starting to test my MCE OTA + non-MCE QAM hybrid setup. The only network channel I dont get on OTA is NBC. I want to use the OnAir USB to capture NBC QAM. Will scheduled AutumnWave QAM recordings confict with MCE OTA recordings? I noticed the message that comes up when you launch OnAirGT saying it might interfer with Media Center My Tv. So the question is, does it interfer durring scheduled recordings too? (when you are not viewing them live, only recording qam in the background)

Next thoughts.......
I wish TitanTV or someone else handled QAM EPG data correctly for more automatic smart recording methods. SageTV might be promsing as it comes out of beta. If they offer solid EPG for QAM recordings, I'll be a SageTV fan for sure. Has anyone else tested the latest SageTV with QAM? I'll stick with manaul recordings via AutumnWave's generic app for now since I only want a couple shows from NBC. If SageTV offers all the things MCE does, + QAM I might want to switch off MCE all together. I like how SageTV is Tivo Like in offering to record things you might like. The recompression is also a nice feature. If it let me mix XviD playback, OTA and QAM with full EPG, cool cool.

Anyway, back to AutumnWave talk. It's great that QAM is at least an option even if it's not fully automatic. I look forward to see who wins the race to blend BDA drivers with cool 3rd party DVR apps.

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post #650 of 2961 Old 11-23-2006, 07:57 AM
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Video Card Question

I have a 128MB PCle x16 ATI FireGl V3100, Dual Monitor VGA or DV Capable. Anyone know whether that meets minimum requirements for Creator/GT?
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post #651 of 2961 Old 11-23-2006, 08:23 PM
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I've got a problem, I can repeat it, at least on the Digital side, if I lose the signal for whatever reason on the OnAir, the OnAir will not start back, I have to change channels and then change back to that station before it will work. I was recording tonight, using the All CH option(don't know if it only happens with it selected or not), but I lost sync, got the red light on the OnAir, the pic on the display was frozen and until I changed to another station and then changed back, it would not restart.

To check this out, I unplugged the cable connection on the back of the OnAir and then plugged it back in, the station will not sync back up, when I changed to another station, it started working again, then when I changed it back to the original station everything was fine. This is a really nasty problem when you're recording, if you lose the signal long enough to freeze, it will not resume at all, until you change to another station and then change back.
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post #652 of 2961 Old 11-24-2006, 09:38 AM
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I noticed a similar response when the ant cable is disconnected the station will not be reacquired without a channel change. I haven't seen the same problem during short fades in the signal though, perhaps the fades are not deep enough.
John
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post #653 of 2961 Old 11-24-2006, 09:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ctdish View Post

I noticed a similar response when the ant cable is disconnected the station will not be reacquired without a channel change. I haven't seen the same problem during short fades in the signal though, perhaps the fades are not deep enough.
John

Yes, I've had the red light flicker, but it didn't freeze, but the cable was having problems last night or something, and I lost the signal a couple of times, when the signal dropped long enough to freeze the video, it would never restart, without changing from the frozen channel and then changing back, I'm sure stopping and restarting the OnAir program would fix it also, but changing channels back and forth was a quicker solution.
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post #654 of 2961 Old 11-24-2006, 03:09 PM
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Well, I just got my GT and followed the "Getting started" instructions, leaving the unit not connected to install the CD driver and then connecting it for the rest of the installation. Everything seemed OK. I clicked on the desktop icon for the GT and up came the channel scan menu. I tried selecting only OTA digital, but before I could do anything else, the boxes disappeared. After that, I got the message "Failed drivers..." I went to Autumnwave and downloaded the GT program and the driver on the home page. Now, all I get is the Microsoft report error page.
I guess I might have to wait until Ryan is back in the office on Monday. I imagine I'll have to delete and reinstall everything, but I'm certainly not going into "remove programs" and delete something valuable.
Any suggestions? I kinda knew this would happen!!
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post #655 of 2961 Old 11-24-2006, 05:23 PM
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Ryan got me going...thanks
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post #656 of 2961 Old 11-24-2006, 05:52 PM
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Does anyone know if any brick and mortar stores are carrying these? Particularly in California?
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post #657 of 2961 Old 11-24-2006, 07:14 PM
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I'm considering building a HTPC but I'm worried about how well the GT
can lock onto my OTA signals. I use a large yagi roof top antenna with rotor & booster.
All my stations are in the 40-70 mile range. I currently use a Hughes Digital STB Receiver
with my antenna. I've read many articles on PC tuners that say they simply can not
lock onto distant signals nearly as well as a STB. Is the GT the exception to this rule?
Will the GT preform as well as my STB digital receiver for deep fringe reception?
I'd hate to spend a thousand bucks on a HTCP only to find that the GT can't find
my distant HD signals.
Thanks!
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post #658 of 2961 Old 11-24-2006, 08:18 PM
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It worked well for me with stations at 50 miles. I have a report here that compares it to several set top boxes.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=715013
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post #659 of 2961 Old 11-25-2006, 07:03 AM
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I'm running a 3 yo 2.2 ghz celeron/384 mb ram laptop. Does this mean hdtv is pretty much out of the picture and i should just go w/ analog tv tuners/pvr?
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post #660 of 2961 Old 11-25-2006, 08:14 AM
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Just wanted to chime in and say installing the NVidia PureVideo Decoder solved a number of problems for me with my USB GT.

- 720p material no longer appears to be getting deinterlaced, i.e., the white sideline and yardline jaggies when watching 720p football went away.

- I'm now able to get full size proper resolution screen caps on both 720p and 1080i material. Prior to this I would get half the number of lines in my captured BMPs on 1080i material, and some oddball quarter screen size with 720p material.

- The screen caps are of much better quality, showing no interlacing artifacts.

I'm running on Windows XP Pro, Dell Inspiron 6400 with ATI Mobility Radeon X1300.

FWIW, I was running an Elecard MPEG2 decoder prior to installing the NVidia decoder. I verified this with the excellent GSpot utility.
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