HDHomeRun - Dual ATSC or QAM to Ethernet Box - Page 16 - AVS Forum
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post #451 of 1972 Old 02-26-2007, 06:30 AM
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Originally Posted by markjeske View Post

Is anyone using the HDHomeRun with os x? If so, what software are you using.

thanks.

My unit is supposed to arrive today. I plan on using it in a mixed environment, this will add two more receivers. I have a Linux server as a MythTV backend, and Mac OS X clients . A Core Duo Mini running MythTV frontend, and a MacBook Pro, on which I plan on using VLC to access the HDHomeRun directly.

I wonder if any of the Mac Media Center projects will add support for the HDHomeRun (e.g. MediaCentral, iTheather, CenterStage).

But, if you're looking for an interesting project, it's hard to beat MythTV for PVR features. It's a bit of a pain to install and configure, but using HDHomeRun eliminates the major hassle of the HD PCI receiver card setup.
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post #452 of 1972 Old 02-26-2007, 09:43 AM
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Originally Posted by vladd View Post

This is not possible at the moment. Both tuner drivers use the same remap file. I brought this to Nick's (jafa) attention and he is considering implementing a registry setting to point to remap files on a per tuner basis. See http://www.silicondust.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2735 for this discussion. The only way to do QAM + OTA at the moment is to use two separate machines. One for QAM, one for OTA.


Thanks for this clarification. Their website is still down but I wanted to see what the timeline was for Nick's implementation for the dual tuner.

As an alternative - in the meanwhile - would it be possible to have an ATSC card in the PC and use the QAM off HDHOMERUN? Is this possible and still use the remap or does that alter all the channels for every tuner?
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post #453 of 1972 Old 02-26-2007, 10:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ymarker View Post

Thanks for this clarification. Their website is still down but I wanted to see what the timeline was for Nick's implementation for the dual tuner.

As an alternative - in the meanwhile - would it be possible to have an ATSC card in the PC and use the QAM off HDHOMERUN? Is this possible and still use the remap or does that alter all the channels for every tuner?

You can use another atsc card for OTA, I use a usb hybrid. You will have to do some registry modifications to enable more tuners for MCE. Can't remember the site offhand but you can google it. Only the HDHomeRun will use the remap file, no other tuner will. The only problem here is you have to make sure the HDHomeRun remap file is using the correct physical and virtual channel numbers for the corresponding OTA channels.
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post #454 of 1972 Old 02-26-2007, 10:45 AM
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How many tuners will saturate a gigabit network?
OK, I have a server class Tyan motherboard with gigabit ports hooked into a dlink gigabit switch which curently has 2 HDHomeRuns connected to it. I have been able to record all 4 tuners simultaneously without dropped frames or delayed packets. I use TSReader for recordings since I can see CRC,sync, TEI, and Continuity error counts. I am considering another 1 or 2 HDHomeRun's for other computers than the video workstation but wonder if I am asking for trouble with too much bandwidth through 5-8 HD channels?

BTW-How did you get to the site for new drivers since it seems to have been down for a couple hours?

Now, if I am brave tonight I will install vista on one HTPC and try the BDA drivers.
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post #455 of 1972 Old 02-26-2007, 10:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ymarker View Post

Thanks for this clarification. Their website is still down but I wanted to see what the timeline was for Nick's implementation for the dual tuner.

As an alternative - in the meanwhile - would it be possible to have an ATSC card in the PC and use the QAM off HDHOMERUN? Is this possible and still use the remap or does that alter all the channels for every tuner?

I'm not positive, but I believe the Dual tuner implementation was under 3 weeks.

Russ
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post #456 of 1972 Old 02-26-2007, 10:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by qz3fwd View Post

How many tuners will saturate a gigabit network?
OK, I have a server class Tyan motherboard with gigabit ports hooked into a dlink gigabit switch which curently has 2 HDHomeRuns connected to it. I have been able to record all 4 tuners simultaneously without dropped frames or delayed packets. I use TSReader for recordings since I can see CRC,sync, TEI, and Continuity error counts. I am considering another 1 or 2 HDHomeRun's for other computers than the video workstation but wonder if I am asking for trouble with too much bandwidth through 5-8 HD channels?

BTW-How did you get to the site for new drivers since it seems to have been down for a couple hours?

Now, if I am brave tonight I will install vista on one HTPC and try the BDA drivers.

From what I understand, 8 HD channels will not saturate a gigabit network at all. Users are currently doing 4 or 6 HD streams on a 100 meg already...

Site was down all weekend, but backup this morning with a new driver release, but is unavailable again. they must be having ISP or server issues.
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post #457 of 1972 Old 02-26-2007, 11:07 AM
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I got the last beta to work on my laptop that is running Vista. I am using OTA got good picture but had to connect ethernet. Wouldn't work with wireless g. Bummer
Now I was hoping to remote to my XP media center pc but site is down. Another bummer.
Is there any other place with downloads available?
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post #458 of 1972 Old 02-26-2007, 11:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by qz3fwd View Post

How many tuners will saturate a gigabit network?

A single HD stream will be about 20Mbps. It will actually be less than that, since the HDHomeRun filters the stream and only sends the relevant program data, but the theoretical maximum is 20Mbps.

Gig-E is, of course, one Gigabit per second (1000Mbps). So, from a purely network point of view, you could have 50 HD streams on a Gig-E segment. (assuming your ethernet switch could really handle full Gig-E speed).

There are other practical limitations that would come into play long before the performance of a half decent Gig-E switch. Such as, the write speed of the disk you're trying to store all that data to, storage space to save the data, the OS/CPU's ability to receive data at that rate, finding 50 channels you can tune, etc.
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post #459 of 1972 Old 02-26-2007, 12:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tji View Post

A single HD stream will be about 20Mbps. It will actually be less than that, since the HDHomeRun filters the stream and only sends the relevant program data, but the theoretical maximum is 20Mbps.

This is not quite correct. An unfiltered QAM channel is 40Mbps, filtered should be around 15Mbps per channel. OTA channels are around 19Mbps each.
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post #460 of 1972 Old 02-26-2007, 12:43 PM
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I'm seeing about 12Mbps for my QAM filtered channels on Bright House Networks Cable in Tampa.
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post #461 of 1972 Old 02-26-2007, 12:56 PM
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It also depends on the resolution of the show, the bitrate, etc as well... but even still, not close to making out a gig network.
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post #462 of 1972 Old 02-26-2007, 01:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jgibo1 View Post

I got the last beta to work on my laptop that is running Vista. I am using OTA got good picture but had to connect ethernet. Wouldn't work with wireless g. Bummer
Now I was hoping to remote to my XP media center pc but site is down. Another bummer.
Is there any other place with downloads available?

I threw the latest beta software release on my server. I don't think Nick will mind, but I'll take it down in a few days anyway.

http://www.oshinetworks.com/HDHomeRu...70225beta1.exe
http://www.oshinetworks.com/HDHomeRu...70225beta1.exe
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post #463 of 1972 Old 02-26-2007, 02:13 PM
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Do you guys know why Silicondust web page is down and any ETA when will be up?
My HDHR should arrive tomorrow and i am afraid i will not be able to download drivers and such for it

Dude seriously!
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post #464 of 1972 Old 02-26-2007, 02:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by emporio View Post

Do you guys know why Silicondust web page is down and any ETA when will be up?

No idea. It comes and goes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by emporio View Post

My HDHR should arrive tomorrow and i am afraid i will not be able to download drivers and such for it

I posted a link for the latest beta software above and can send you the latest firmware if it is not already installed on your unit.
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post #465 of 1972 Old 02-26-2007, 03:10 PM
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Thx vladd,

this is for MCE, correct?

Dude seriously!
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post #466 of 1972 Old 02-26-2007, 03:16 PM
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What is the latest firmware? 20070219?
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post #467 of 1972 Old 02-26-2007, 03:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by emporio View Post

Thx vladd,

this is for MCE, correct?

The software actually includes the BDA drivers needed for MCE and other directshow PVRs (GB-PVR, MediaPortal etc) as well as the SageTV Config, HdHomeRun Config (GUI and CLI), and the HDHomeRun Manager for managing the BDA drivers.
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post #468 of 1972 Old 02-26-2007, 03:20 PM
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Originally Posted by 3rob3 View Post

What is the latest firmware? 20070219?

Correct (unless one was released today).
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post #469 of 1972 Old 02-26-2007, 04:27 PM
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"A single HD stream will be about 20Mbps. It will actually be less than that, since the HDHomeRun filters the stream and only sends the relevant program data, but the theoretical maximum is 20Mbps."
I am using QAM so its about 38 Mbps

"Gig-E is, of course, one Gigabit per second (1000Mbps). So, from a purely network point of view, you could have 50 HD streams on a Gig-E segment. (assuming your ethernet switch could really handle full Gig-E speed). "
Thats theoretical, kinda like usb2 is 480Mbps-not even close in reality & firewire is much faster.

"There are other practical limitations that would come into play long before the performance of a half decent Gig-E switch. Such as, the write speed of the disk you're trying to store all that data to, storage space to save the data, the OS/CPU's ability to receive data at that rate, finding 50 channels you can tune, etc. "
I use Seagate U320 SCSI 15,000 RPM drives in a RAID0 setup-so write speed is not an issue. I was just concerned that I would end up with out of order/lost packets with too many HD streams.

Yeah-Its hard to find 50 HD channels to watch. But I find myself regularly using 3-4 tuners.

Thanks
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post #470 of 1972 Old 02-26-2007, 04:27 PM
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I see Silicon Dusts website is down. Is the company going out of business? Whats going on? I am interested in buying one but I not going down that road for a company that going to disapear. Unless of course it's dirt cheap.
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post #471 of 1972 Old 02-26-2007, 04:28 PM
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Thanks vladd!
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post #472 of 1972 Old 02-26-2007, 04:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rwalter63 View Post

I see Silicon Dusts website is down. Is the company going out of business? Whats going on? I am interested in buying one but I not going down that road for a company that going to disapear. Unless of course it's dirt cheap.

nice 'first post'

I would assume ISP problems or hosting problems.

Bryan
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post #473 of 1972 Old 02-26-2007, 04:44 PM
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Originally Posted by linuxworks View Post

nice 'first post'

I would assume ISP problems or hosting problems.

I agree. More like too many hits now that they have QAM working in MCE
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post #474 of 1972 Old 02-26-2007, 05:29 PM
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ITs up and running:

latest is 20070225 beta 1

* New installer.
* AUtomatic firmware upgrade.
* Start the HDHomeRun Manager at startup.
* Native 64-bit support.
* Improvements for Vista.


thx Vladd again

Dude seriously!
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post #475 of 1972 Old 02-26-2007, 08:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rwalter63 View Post

I see Silicon Dusts website is down. Is the company going out of business? Whats going on?

The forum is back up; the main site's main page is up but others are still down as of the time of this post. I asked Nick about this yesterday, and he said that they were investigating problems with the server. The company is definitely *not* going out of business.
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post #476 of 1972 Old 02-27-2007, 08:36 AM
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I received my HDHomeRun unit yesterday. Since the www site was down, I couldn't get to the software to do the setup. I finally resorted to using the Windows software in a Parallels virtual machine to do the initial setup/testing. This morning, the rest of the www site was restored, and I was able to download the Unix code, and build it on Mac OS X. A few things that surprised me about the HDHR were:

- The only GUI available is for Windows. There are command-line tools for Linux and Mac OS, but they are pretty clunky.
- For Linux (or probably Mac OS X) the MythTV backend setup can be used as the interface for HDHR setup/config.

- The HDHR relies on UDP broadcasts to "discover" the tuners on the network. This works well in a simple environment, and minimizes the user's configuration needs. But, if your network is slightly more complex, and has more than one subnet, this causes problems. Broadcasts don't go across subnets, so the software cannot discover the HDHR units. As far as I have seen, there is no way to manually specify the IP address of the unit in either the Windows or Unix code. (This will not effect most people, simple Linksys or D-Link wireless devices just bridge everything into one network. But, for people like me who have their network segmented/secured, it's an issue.) Basically, your HDHR device needs to be on the same segment / broadcast-domain as the system receiving the broadcast (e.g. your MythTV backend).



Overall, I think it's a great device. A network based HD tuner is fantastic, and solves many problems. MythTV setup is also much easier with the HDHR rather than PCI cards, not to mention that it frees up your server requirements quite a bit. The above issues just took me by surprise, so I wanted to let other know about them.
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post #477 of 1972 Old 02-27-2007, 08:50 AM
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I found that 'upnp' stuff to be annoying. as a unix guy, I don't like it. and its one more service (a very useless one, too) that I have to keep running, now, on xp ;(

I also had to run a dhcp server! same basic issue. they tried to remove too much config and make it TOO much plug and play. its fine as long as you also allow manual configs. a static ip is all I ask to solve both. I have to run a 'plastic firewall' box (spare that I had) just to get a dhcpd server on the net. I NEVER run dhcp at home. no reason to. except, now, I guess ;(

Bryan
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post #478 of 1972 Old 02-27-2007, 09:27 AM
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Given the bandwidth needs and latency sensitivity it's entirely reasonable for a device like the HDHR to use UDP instead of TCP. You're asking for trouble expecting to move what's likely to be a freight train's worth of data through a routed network. Both to any other traffic on the subnet along with the live stream from the HDHR to whatever's expecting to tune to it. On average a single stream is usually 20mbps (or thereabouts) but it can be as large as 70mbps for a high res, multiprogram stream.

The silicondust folks have done a pretty good job of attempting to provide solutions for multiple applications. It's not unreasonable to think they'll offer more platform and program support as things progress.
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post #479 of 1972 Old 02-27-2007, 09:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wkearney99 View Post

Given the bandwidth needs and latency sensitivity it's entirely reasonable for a device like the HDHR to use UDP instead of TCP. You're asking for trouble expecting to move what's likely to be a freight train's worth of data through a routed network. Both to any other traffic on the subnet along with the live stream from the HDHR to whatever's expecting to tune to it. On average a single stream is usually 20mbps (or thereabouts) but it can be as large as 70mbps for a high res, multiprogram stream.

The silicondust folks have done a pretty good job of attempting to provide solutions for multiple applications. It's not unreasonable to think they'll offer more platform and program support as things progress.

The discovery is UDP, I think the video stream is TCP.
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post #480 of 1972 Old 02-27-2007, 09:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tji View Post

- The HDHR relies on UDP broadcasts to "discover" the tuners on the network. This works well in a simple environment, and minimizes the user's configuration needs. But, if your network is slightly more complex, and has more than one subnet, this causes problems. Broadcasts don't go across subnets, so the software cannot discover the HDHR units. As far as I have seen, there is no way to manually specify the IP address of the unit in either the Windows or Unix code. (This will not effect most people, simple Linksys or D-Link wireless devices just bridge everything into one network. But, for people like me who have their network segmented/secured, it's an issue.) Basically, your HDHR device needs to be on the same segment / broadcast-domain as the system receiving the broadcast (e.g. your MythTV backend).

This feedback has been provided on the Silicondust forum. Placing the HDHR on a different subnet would seem counter intuitive from a network architecture design. Not sure why you would want to do it. Anyways, they did say it does not work across subnets at this point, but they would consider allowing static IP.
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